Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Theres a difference between liking games and actually playing games
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Thurrott: MS to announce a new standard Xbox controller and maybe Xbox Elite at E3
- Thread starter ekim
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Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Yep I definitely agree with you on that man. It would make plenty of sense to announce a new one after all that, but I don't know man. I have a feeling it's not going to happen. Even if MS managed to do a much better job this time with not having any leaks.... Wouldn't there still be something? Some rumours from some anonymous source?
Rather not get my hopes up. But if not this year, it definitely has to be next year otherwise that would suck bigtime. Once I get that Neo, it probably won't take long until that becomes my main and I have the X1 for exclusives. But I wouldn't like that outcome personally. MS not keeping up with Sony, a much much bigger gap..... I just find that odd.
It seems he thinks there will be one, that's what it looks like to me. But we don't know if he actually knows something.
I mean they still have time, but yea it's cutting it real close. Developers need probably at least 4-6 months with the new devkits, so if it launches in November then devkits should be ready around May.
The last we know is not entirely concrete, but that "XboxEvents" website redirecting to a different IP, suggesting an event may be imminent. A dedicated hardware event in mid-late May, maybe then they send out devkits, maybe send some engineers to assist (if they do indeed think they are short on time).
But yea, time is running out, we should have leaks this month for sure if something is happening.
User 479360
Banned
I just want to know if it's a revised controller or just a new colour. The wait is killing me.
This wouldn't be a new platform though, so I don't think developers would need new kits as early. Chances are it would use the same same development tools with some added options, and one of the goals of UWP seems to be making cross device development easier. If MS wants to regain some mindshare then I personally believe they need to get out ahead of the Neo. Being the only new console this holiday would be a pretty big deal. I think the biggest factor is what the specs are, and if production will be able to deliver those specs this Fall or next Spring.
tiredheadcrab
Member
Oh yeah, I forgot about the redirected xbox event website. That is interesting and could line up with rumors about a separate event. However invites should be going out soon for this. I mean if this is going to be before E3 they should send them soon for the press.
Yea I was thinking the same. For developers these new consoles (PS/Xbox) would be no different except for the fact that they just have more resources available to them. But if they know how to develop for XBO then by default they know how to develop for Xbox 1.5, so they wouldn't need a long period of time to learn it.
More so they just might want to take the easy way out for this holday's titles and just increase resolution/fps on the new boxes, without adding anything more asset-wise. Sure it will still take time to optimize just for res/fps, but less so than would be needed to have newer assets as well.
Mr. Pointy
Member
What are the chances of a small overclock on the Slim?
that makes zero sense
I love my Xbox One but damn is it one big, ugly console. Certainly compared to the pleasing aesthetic of the PlayStation 4. Love the fact that the Xbox One is practically silent when it's running though.
I'd take any 2 TB Xbox One Slim at this point but I think we'll be getting a pretty significant upgrade whether through resolution or elsewhere compared to the same 1 TB/500 GB model we've had since 2013.
We'll be hitting 3 years since the XBO/PS4 launch in NA.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
It's definitely still possible. Unless they actually plan to reveal it during E3, but I doubt that even more. Personally, when Phil Spencer said those things earlier this year, it seemed to me like he was talking about the future, that he definitely can see that happening for Xbox. Nobody really expected any of that Neo news though, maybe including MS and that would mean Sony has taken them by surprise. But an event announce can still happen, but I would have expected them to do that before announcing their E3 plans though.
We're just going to have to wait and see. It is in a way quite exciting but I honestly wish we knew more, I really want Xbox to keep up.
Because you can bet your ass that Rockstar and many other devs are going to take nice advantage of improved hardware.
Proelite
Member
Higher than you think. Finfet allows for much higher clocks.
I except the CPU to get a boost at least to address some of the sluggishness in the OS.
Why wouldn't it make sense?
If it wasn't for PS4 Neo coming soon that would have been the perfect move for MS to make
move to 14nm & clock the GPU to 1.2 GHz & it would have matched the PS4 in processing power.
Mr. Pointy
Member
I figure a 10-15% bump in the CPU/GPU would smooth out the bigger frame rate dips in a bunch of games. And it wouldn't screw over people who are sticking with the Fat Bone in the short term, because MS could probably still use it as the base development spec until they run those models out.
Final Verdict
Member
Do we really think that developers would make all new assets for a PS4/XB neo version?
If the gpu power is only double (of ps4) and no change to the cpu, then that would make little sense in my opinion.
With the 360-ps4 we saw like a ~750% power increase in raw gpu power. If the rumors are to be believed, the ps4k would only be around 100% increase in raw gpu power.
That will likely only be enough to run games at a higher resolution, frame rate, or maybe improve something like draw distance and AA.
It is just my view, but I don't think 100% increase is enough increase to justify two unique sets of assets for a base version and neo version. Maybe some better effects or foliage density, but honestly I just think this whole thing is way over hyped on the expectations side.
But I could be wrong! Let's wait and see.
If the gpu power is only double (of ps4) and no change to the cpu, then that would make little sense in my opinion.
With the 360-ps4 we saw like a ~750% power increase in raw gpu power. If the rumors are to be believed, the ps4k would only be around 100% increase in raw gpu power.
That will likely only be enough to run games at a higher resolution, frame rate, or maybe improve something like draw distance and AA.
It is just my view, but I don't think 100% increase is enough increase to justify two unique sets of assets for a base version and neo version. Maybe some better effects or foliage density, but honestly I just think this whole thing is way over hyped on the expectations side.
But I could be wrong! Let's wait and see.
Hawk269
Member
I could potentially see hi-res texture packs being released for games to take advantage of more powerful hardware. I think what ultimately we will see is solid 1080p/30fps/60fps games depending on type of game with extremely good image quality. I can see more games with global illumination at 1080p/30fps with good IQ as well. It depends really how powerful these new machines will actually be.
I definitely welcome newer hardware. I understand the arguments against it, but for me, I welcome it and think it would be a positive thing as long as the hardware manufactures present and execute it.
Final Verdict
Member
From a consumer standpoint it is a really nice model to use. (Like a simpler form of the PC model that gives the consumer real choice and flexibility)
I think that my only real problem with it is if it would hurt developers as I tend to be developer first in my thinking. (even though I am not a developer, I am in school for animation and understand just how much work this stuff is)
If they (Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo) can find a developer friendly way to make a model of annual or bi-annual hardware upgrades work then I would be all for it.
Proelite
Member
Jaguar can be clocked to 2.2 ghz. That's 26%.
GPU can prolly max out at 1.2 ghz. That's 42%.
Theoretical max so I think any overclock would be half way.
Hockeymac18
Member
A Steam App on a Windows 10 Xbox is what I've been wanting for a while.
I'd still buy "Xbox" (Windows store games), as well - but having Steam on there, also, would be gigantic. Just make it a PC in my living room, please <- and yes, I'm aware that's possibly now - but I'd like to see the console world benefits merge with the PC world benefits...best of both worlds.
Maybe this is their trump card, which Sony would not have an easy answer to. It depends on how many want to pay a higher price. With the 150 dollar elite controller sales, maybe it told them it would work.
Proelite
Member
If MS wants to sell hardware, then it makes sense to put Steam on them.
If MS wants to increase Win10 app store userbase, then they definitely don't want steam.
MS said they have two big technological announcements this year on the scale of the 360 emulator, forgot who specifically said it
tiredheadcrab
Member
Where is Ekim? Help us Ekim, you are our only hope. Maybe.
Proelite
Member
They already demoed Halo 4 streaming to Windows Phone in 2013.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/26/4...alo-4-streaming-from-the-cloud-to-windows-and
This was already called to be bullshit.
Yea, though I was surprised tweaktown put that right out there.
Edit: IGN had a much more reasonable article, without any crazy specs, just opinion.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/05/05/opinion-the-xbox-one-successor-needs-to-go-big-or-go-home
Mr. Pointy
Member
MS will staple 2 SoCs together.
That's the cutest goddamn thing I've seen in ages!
Bits N Pieces
Member
Chances of a new Xbox being Oculus compatible if/when it's released?
I'm talking about an official release for the mass market
freefornow
Gold Member
Games made under UWP would already have these hi res texture options in the PC version. Could be as simple as automatically enabling these when the game is played on the new xbox hardware.
PodcastFips
Member
Steam on Xbox? That doesn't even make sense at all.
jeff_rigby
Banned
FinFET is to address the issue that as you reduce the node/transistor junction size you get more static (off) leakage. There are two generations of 14nm FinFET with only the second able to support faster clocked CPUs and GPUs. That second generation is why ZEN had to wait till this year (2016). APUs using 14nm FinFET and HBM start in 2017 and will be expensive compared to NEO.
I've said this before; because Sony moved the ARM IP out of the APU they could use GDDR5 and if needed GDDR5X. They could move to a new node without using HBM while Microsoft has to use HBM. With HBM and their virtual OS, Microsoft can jump to more than NEO performance limited by cost (die size & HBM & Interposer) and TDP. If NEO is using 14 nm FinFET and is limited by TDP then Microsoft will be limited to the same plus any efficiencies available in the 25X more efficient by 2020 roadmap. A wild guess would be if Neo is at 4 TF then Microsoft in 2017 could manage 6 TF.
A very well done Youtube pointed out AMD designs lend themselves to two or more smaller GPUs on an interposer with KGD (Known Good Die) allowing for higher yields. Charlie at Semi-accurate in 2013 was mentioning this as well as PS4 with a two chip design and XB1 one chip with Sony planning faster iterations. He was getting this from, we thought at the time, AMD "moles".
I have to laugh as 5/2015 a job posting for a game developer working on game to develop and test a new Sony console prompted speculation it was a PS5 and modbot thought it was nothing new and locked the thread. It was Likely the PS4.5. PS5 is likely in the 2020's when there is significant GPU design change to support 4K games more efficiently and backward compatibility would need emulation. Sony still has GDDR5X at twice the bandwidth of GDDR5 and they can have a PS4.75 if needed because a PS5 is delayed.
Regardless, a 10+ TFLOP console is something you'd expect for Q4 2018, or even 2019 depending on exactly how powerful.
But here's the thing, if I were Microsoft, I would wait and see how PS4K / Neo does during 2017. If Sony falters with PS4K, lets say to some extent, if developers and then consumers are really upset (even if PS4K is not a disaster) it leaves Microsoft a major opening for 2018. They launch the new Xbox with a solid 8-10 Zen CPU, a GPU based on AMD's highly scaleable Navi (2018) w/ its Nextgen memory (whatever that is) on 10nm . 180w TDP / $399 price. It happens to exceed the recommended specs for Rift CV2 and also works with any Rift model released before CV2. And native 4K games would be fine on such a machine. Pretty damn powerful in 2018 for $400, more so than Xbox One in 2013, although not as much of a loss leader as Xbox 360 in 2005 or PS3 in 2006. Microsoft could easily have the most powerful console on the market for 2 solid years/24 months, because Sony wouldn't launch another console after PS4K (meaning PS5) until 2020.
There's little sense for Microsoft launching a new more powerful machine at this stage, with PS4 still selling like hotcakes. Phil Spencer is pretty smart and I like see a well planned strategy by him that could put Xbox back on top before the end of the decade.
But here's the thing, if I were Microsoft, I would wait and see how PS4K / Neo does during 2017. If Sony falters with PS4K, lets say to some extent, if developers and then consumers are really upset (even if PS4K is not a disaster) it leaves Microsoft a major opening for 2018. They launch the new Xbox with a solid 8-10 Zen CPU, a GPU based on AMD's highly scaleable Navi (2018) w/ its Nextgen memory (whatever that is) on 10nm . 180w TDP / $399 price. It happens to exceed the recommended specs for Rift CV2 and also works with any Rift model released before CV2. And native 4K games would be fine on such a machine. Pretty damn powerful in 2018 for $400, more so than Xbox One in 2013, although not as much of a loss leader as Xbox 360 in 2005 or PS3 in 2006. Microsoft could easily have the most powerful console on the market for 2 solid years/24 months, because Sony wouldn't launch another console after PS4K (meaning PS5) until 2020.
There's little sense for Microsoft launching a new more powerful machine at this stage, with PS4 still selling like hotcakes. Phil Spencer is pretty smart and I like see a well planned strategy by him that could put Xbox back on top before the end of the decade.
jeff_rigby
Banned
In Letters by the EU related to voluntary energy efficiency, 2017 is mentioned as:
1) When Third Tier energy Efficiency starts
2) Easier repair with replaceable components.
I don't remember which paper has this but the Link to the site that mentioned the PS4 and XB1 as UHD Capable is here and in that paper it links to other letters.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/03/amd-wants-to-standardise-the-external-gpu/ with AMD XConnect This could be the answer for Microsoft if they are supporting this. 4-6TF as the base XB1.5 and externally upgradeable to 14 TF or so if the serious gamer doesn't mind a little fan noise in the living room.
mikefrails
Banned
I see a PS3 Slim-like tide shifting with this updated Xbox One.
Once the hardware is there you won't be able to make the excuse that games run better on PS4 (which is currently negligible at best). Like, that narrative we created online is a big part of why people don't value Xbox as much right now even though it's lineup is arguably superior. I hope MS pulls it off.
Once the hardware is there you won't be able to make the excuse that games run better on PS4 (which is currently negligible at best). Like, that narrative we created online is a big part of why people don't value Xbox as much right now even though it's lineup is arguably superior. I hope MS pulls it off.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
By the way, that report about three SOCs from AMD. What exactly was said there? Did it specifically say it was meant for console hardware usage? One of those three is likely Xbox related and it's the only sign of something really. Or do I have this wrong?
Tntnico
Member
Chances, yes. But no rumors of that for now ... The only thing that leads people to believe that is the Microsoft / Oculus partnership they have (every Oculus ships with a Xbox One controller).
The fact is I don't know how they would handle it to be a win-win for both parts. I see the huge benefits for Xbox, but for Oculus ? I mean, a huge part of their business model is their own store, doesn't it ? So if Oculus can run on the "Xbox One +" how can they have their cut on VR games sold on Xbox One ?
DagnastyEp
Member
I agree with much of what you've got here. Regarding the bolded, I think it's crucial for MS to wait for 10nm in creating the SOC in the next Xbox, even if that means having Xbox One competing against PS4 Neo for a year or more.
as soon as they involve devs and pubs stuff will leak.
It's what I actually wonder though if games are made uwp, do they really need to say anything to anyone? Assuming they can convince devs to do so. Wouldn't the games just work? That's what I was understanding from all this, I might be wrong though.
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