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TITANFALL 2 is depressingly disappointing....
- Thread starter Poster#1
- Start date
That clip encompasses everything that mad TF1 so FUCKING GOOD and exactly the reason I had so much fun taking down Titans. Also, nothing better than dropping Titans on top of other Titans.
I don't recall expressing any "opinion" at all... I did however make a comment. And as I started to read the thread, I'm not seeing people saying that the points in the OP were false.
If Titans are now rewarded as killstreaks, that's enough to warrant my comment.
TheCanisDirus
Member
Yeah the Bomb guys who played it all seemed to really enjoy it, Gertsmann especially. All of the press post E3 from all who had played seemed to be very positive. I'm not sure what happened. It took me a little while to get used to it and i came to enjoy it more than TF1. That's just me though. It's got issues for sure... but the bones are there and Respawn seems aware of the comments.
Memorabilia
Member
Yeah, basically your experience mirrors mine. I feel like his statements about camping in TF1 describe playing with different populations at a different time in Titanfalls (community) evolution. When I was playing TF1 constantly during its peak popularity, camping was not only discouraged by the maps/gameplay loop but it was incredibly easy for skilled players to move swiftly around the map and actively punish campers while racking up AI kills to subsequently be rewarded with a faster Titan fall. I feel like the smattering of bizarre TF2 tech-demo defense force comments are based off of playing the game more recently or off peak with casuals who have no idea what they're doing. I mean, at this point the TF1 community has dwindled so of course the player base is going to be demonstrably less skilled. Making a retconned judgement call about TF1's *design* based on the fact that it's mostly populated by noobs (along with a small % of elites) at this point is a fool's errand.
I hope you're right about them making major changes because as-is this tech demo is not Titanfall. Full stop. As for your back-n-forth defending TF2 by attacking TF1's design, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. It feels like you played a completely different version of TF1, which as my response to Alienous indicates, might be answered at least in part by the fact that many of us played during different time periods. As the games popularity waned due primarily to a lack of content, the community skillbase naturally polarized into a small % of dedicated (addicted?) elites along with mostly noobs who play the game like CoD and are little more challenge than the AI grunts for even a mediocre TF vet.
As to your points 2, 3, and 4 regarding what contributed to TF's waning popularity:
#2, not being multiplat...I don't see how this would effect platform populations unless there were plans to make the game cross-platform (which we all know would never happen). Sure, exclusivity affected total sales. And having TF on more platforms would have been great for "keeping to conversation going", I suppose. But I don't see how this would have had a great impact on platform specific populations.
#3, smart pistol...eh, I call bullshit on this one. While annoying in that it sometimes allowed noobs to get the drop on better players, on balance the smart pistol wasn't good enough to overcome a truly skilled player with just about any other weapon 9 out of 10 times. More importantly, I don't see how this could seriously be considered as an important factor when discussing what impacted TF's population shrink. It sounds to me more like something that people just used as an excuse to pile on when they were annoyed at the game.
#4, attrition...Attrition was by far the most popular mode of the game for a reason... Because it was accessible and *fun*. Why on earth anyone thinks it's a good idea to remove the most popular mode from the last game because people had too much fun and ignored other modes is baffling. Here's an idea: Make other modes BETTER so that people want to play them too. Don't remove the best mode because other modes don't quite have the same hook.
I find really bizarre the constant assertions that Attrition was crap. Is this some elitist nonsense? I loved Attrition, and not everyone who played it sucked. Perhaps the format makes a difference, because on PC campers got absolutely slaughtered, and if you didn't know how to move about the map and pick off targets while parkouring you had little influence on the match. Movement was everything in this mode, while AI was the continual link between pilot/pilot, pilot/Titan and Titan/Titan combat. If you were playing Attrition properly and covering the map there was hardly ever a moment when you weren't shooting at something. This 'chaining' was partly what made TF combat and Attrition in particular so intense.
Honestly, the myth that Attrition was a wank mode populated by simpletons has to stop.
Honestly, the myth that Attrition was a wank mode populated by simpletons has to stop.
Huh... I didn't even notice.
Meh... they called it COD with Titans last time. Still a great night.
Diablohead
Member
A lot of the attrition hate comes from those who wanted PvP and not PvPvE, it's silly.
"AI bots which can't hit a barn door and die really quick? ugh no remove that trash it ruins my experiance" is about the only hate I see for bots, and it's all the same or similar everywhere you look. Sadly is was those people that respawn listened too.
A lot of the press who played before the test beta most likely had an hour or less, played and had fun and moved on, a lot of the current test beta complaints come from those to loved the game and want to see it improve but a lot of changes ruined what titanfall was all about in the beginning.
"AI bots which can't hit a barn door and die really quick? ugh no remove that trash it ruins my experiance" is about the only hate I see for bots, and it's all the same or similar everywhere you look. Sadly is was those people that respawn listened too.
A lot of the press who played before the test beta most likely had an hour or less, played and had fun and moved on, a lot of the current test beta complaints come from those to loved the game and want to see it improve but a lot of changes ruined what titanfall was all about in the beginning.
Out of my 20 or so friends who I play BF4 with, every single one is getting BF1 over TF2
Why they are releasing Titanfall in the same month as Battlefield 1 is beyond me
Maybe EA wants it to fail so they can push Respawn onto new projects
Attrition PC vs Attrition console is a bit different. PC population was never that big, and it dwindled way faster than the console population. Good players on PC had no choice but to play Attrition.
I don't even see how this is a fair comparison. They're two completely different styles of shooters.
If i recall correctly the game's potential didn't start to unlock until about 6 months after release. the first 3 months practically everyone was complete shit (on console at least).
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think it's hard to position TF as a PvPvE game. But whatever the case, it's not hate for bots. At least for me, it's hate for the mode. I have zero problems with the creeps or whatever you wanna call them. They existed in almost every mode in TF1 and I had zero problems with that. If this was all about hate for bots, people would be automatically calling bounty hunt shit because it has AI bots in it. I don't think people are doing that, and are at least giving the mode a chance.
What im trying to say if that if the releases were further apart, like 3 months, we would all get both. But since they lumped them into the same month, there is no reason to get both since games are so expensive here
Complicated
Banned
Jeff plays Titanfall like Call of Duty. Boots on the ground for the most part.
Gotcha, well wait a month or two and then pick it up. I'm holding out that this game will end up being absolutely fantastic.
SmackAttack
Member
I posted in the tech test thread but I wasn't very happy with what I played. Went back and played some Titanfall 1 and it just felt so much better. The presence of bots made it feel like a battlefield which I never felt in during my playtime over the weekend. I'll give it another shot this weekend but right now I'm not impressed at all.
Here's a tech update from after the test. Game design one coming next.
http://www.titanfall.com/en_us/news/tech-test-successes/
http://www.titanfall.com/en_us/news/tech-test-successes/
Memorabilia
Member
Exactly. My time with the game was a bit at launch...got hooked, GENed up, then got side-tracked with real life until about 6 months in which is when I spent about the next 3 or so months playing. I'm not sure how your response contradicts anything I was saying. Simply put, the playerbase was pretty skilled for a few months and now its not.
That is the problem, for me at least, they are too different. I had to stop playing Titanfall after the second map pack dropped because all my friends went back to BF4. The change in speed of the games was too jarring. I hate to admit it but there was times I died in BF4 because I tried to wall run to flank someone.
Complicated
Banned
It's a narrative being pushed by a very small number of people. They're screaming very loud though.
http://imgur.com/a/zeVdF
So you earn points by being better than the rest and then as a reward you get a Titan that makes you even more OP. And the feedback loop is entirely negative for less skilled players. You got to wonder whether the game designers even thought one second about the dynamics of their own game.
TheCanisDirus
Member
Attrition is not crap. But there was lots of grumbling and "hate' on the mode when TF launched. Loads of people hated the AI and the farming aspect of the mode. I enjoyed almost all the modes in TF1. (Attrition was probably my most played mode)
fucking hell the flexibility still amazes me..i did not see it at all anymore in TF2.
I enjoyed the hell out of the TF2 tech demo.
The movement was fluid (the grapple hook allowed me to zip across the map), the weapons felt good, and I usually achieved 2-3 titans per game (I played mostly bounty) purely by completely bounties.
That said, I am worried there isn't enough depth to keep you interested like say, CoD (I prestiged 2x in the last CoD). Also, I have to admit, I played the TF1 demo but didn't buy the game).
I feel like I'm the target audience for TF2: CoD players tired of the same of CoD formula. Respawn has to widen their audience, and simply tweaking TF1 and naming it TF2 doesn't justify a new game - that's called DLC. Overall, I liked the direction and I'll probably buy it when it drops.
The movement was fluid (the grapple hook allowed me to zip across the map), the weapons felt good, and I usually achieved 2-3 titans per game (I played mostly bounty) purely by completely bounties.
That said, I am worried there isn't enough depth to keep you interested like say, CoD (I prestiged 2x in the last CoD). Also, I have to admit, I played the TF1 demo but didn't buy the game).
I feel like I'm the target audience for TF2: CoD players tired of the same of CoD formula. Respawn has to widen their audience, and simply tweaking TF1 and naming it TF2 doesn't justify a new game - that's called DLC. Overall, I liked the direction and I'll probably buy it when it drops.
Respawn discussing tech test feedback.
Not going to lie they look absolutely miserable. The look on all their faces says "what have we done?"
Hopefully they delay it and take the feedback on board seriously. The maps need to be completely redone imo (assuming they're anything like the 2 in the tech test)
Diablohead
Member
Some of the intros to the campaign missions was great, this drop in for example: https://youtu.be/xYYEqiTY_zg?t=35s
Memorabilia
Member
Yeah I agree with this. I played all the modes roughly equally, but probably spent more time in Attrition than any other single mode simply because that's where the player population gravitated.
It's not hard to understand why: Attrition was easy to understand/accessible with instant gratification even for noobs in the form of plenty of AI to plow through while adjusting to game speed / traversal and becoming better over time at taking on other pilots.
There was a lot of AI bashing going on at the time which totally missed the point of the AI within the gameplay loop. Psychologically it was brilliant (if not perfect) because it gave new players something to hang their hats on and encouraged them to stick with it even as they were getting their asses handed to them by better pilots. This is just conjecture on my part, but it felt like a deliberate design choice in a not-so-obvious way: Respawn had to know a lot of players coming over from CoD (or BF) might quickly get discouraged at dying a lot while trying to master new movement mechanics, get tired of losing to already established players, and quit... Thereby killing the playerbase. It's a problem that would likely be inherent in any game in which you introduce new map traversal. So they tried to give people something to make them feel a sense of accomplishment even if they sucked against other live players. Maybe not a perfect solution, but it was a pretty good attempt that also had the side benefit of making the battlefield feel much more active and chaotic and even occasionally dangerous for more experienced pilots.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
From the Titanfall OT2
It's not elitist to not like the mode. It's just the most shallow mode TF had to offer. And for many people who loved TF, myself included, I largely had to play that shallow mode that hardly represented what TF could be about. Ultimately it wasn't worth my time, despite how great TF could be it wasn't worth attrition, especially with the heavy amount of smart pistols (and nuclear ejections tbh was also a problem).
And I am not quote bombing to say that no one liked attrition mode. I am doing it so people stop claiming that this is just an opinion people formulated because they are elitist or are just now seeing that the mode was bad because it's gone. I often actually enjoyed attrition for a game or two, but if another mode didn't get filled in I would just quit out and find something else to do because attrition got boring really fast.
Attrition is such a shit mode and the people that play it are shit. Hard point is good, but CTF is the best mode
It's not elitist to not like the mode. It's just the most shallow mode TF had to offer. And for many people who loved TF, myself included, I largely had to play that shallow mode that hardly represented what TF could be about. Ultimately it wasn't worth my time, despite how great TF could be it wasn't worth attrition, especially with the heavy amount of smart pistols (and nuclear ejections tbh was also a problem).
And I am not quote bombing to say that no one liked attrition mode. I am doing it so people stop claiming that this is just an opinion people formulated because they are elitist or are just now seeing that the mode was bad because it's gone. I often actually enjoyed attrition for a game or two, but if another mode didn't get filled in I would just quit out and find something else to do because attrition got boring really fast.
rakkadakka
Member
To be fair they look like every group of people who are about to be in a meeting.
Oh to be a fly on the wall in that room.
It does help to remember that these are people behind the company and I'm hoping we get some good responses from them.
At the very least I'd like to hear what they though was so wrong in the first game to justify some of the bigger gameplay changes.
schwabdizzle
Banned
I posted this earlier in the thread, but why are people assuming Attrition will not be in the game when it launches? We are talking about an Alpha here, are we not?
FLUXCapacitor
Member
Well I didn't get a chance to play the tech test, but the kill streak for a Titan simply kills it for me. Everything else I've read that that's changed from TF1 kills it for me too, but the kill streak is just head scratcher. They really didn't need to change so much. TF2 really should have been just a clone of TF1 with single player, more maps, more Titans, a bunch more customization/weapons and things to keep you playing long term. Sigh...I hope some changes are made because at this point I'm not really interested in the game anymore.
So, according to that link they are not using Azure servers this time around. Does that mean no cloud computing, and therefore, no bots, because that's what powered them? Or am misunderstanding some thing? If not I guess it's the price paid for going multiplat...
Bornstellar
Member
You misunderstand. Their are using Azure, Amazon ec2, Google cloud, and bare metal boxes.
Scully Scully Scoo
Member
Respawn discussing tech test feedback.
Not going to lie they look absolutely miserable. The look on all their faces says "what have we done?"
Hopefully they delay it and take the feedback on board seriously. The maps need to be completely redone imo (assuming they're anything like the 2 in the tech test)
lmao. its tough being a dev. if u dont change anything u get criticised for playing it safe and may get left behind, if u go a different direction u risk losing fans.
respawn will get it right for release, this is just a alpha
TimeEffect
Member
Im so hoping they listen to us, but something tells me there are going to be some hard truths to swallow lol
Memorabilia
Member
That's fair. I agree completely that "elitism" alone doesn't adequately explain "opposition" to or annoyance with Attrition. I mean, when it comes to opinions about anything we all fall somewhere on a gradient, right? None of us are going to agree 100% on anything. It's totally legit to *love* Titanfall but also be annoyed at times that the only mode with enough active population to get in some quick games was Attrition. That's not necessarily elitism so much as simply wanting there to be healthier populations in more modes over the course of TF2's projected lifespan, if only for the sake of variety. After all, with "lack of content" being the primary reason TF1 died a quick death, it would seem that encouraging a player base with a *variety* of engaging modes would go a long way towards fixing that problem.
I think most/all of us can agree on that. Where we start having points of contention is when it comes to how exactly to deal with the "content" or "variety" problems. It appears Respawn's initial solution is to simply rip Attrition out of the game. Now, despite many of us being able to agree that Attrition being the only mode with long-term population was annoying, I think most of us can also agree that taking Attrition out of the game entirely may not be the best solution. After all, it had the largest population for the longest time for a reason: People generally found it fun and instantly accessible/rewarding (even if many of us would agree it's "shallow", that pick up and play quality is what gave it it's long life while other modes died off).
Basically, I think what many people are arguing for is some kind of middle ground. Tweak TF1 if necessary...improve on the solid core/gunplay/movement, but bring back the things that make Titanfall a unique experience. Attrition may have siphoned people away from other modes. But dont remove it. Make the other modes BETTER and give them a better hook so people want to play them long term. Don't take out the primary mode that kept TF1 alive.
TheCanisDirus
Member
FTFY
But seriously... i agree. They're a good group and i have faith in them. (One of the last devs i can say that about currently.)TimeEffect
Member
FTFY
I just want to know whyyyy they did what they did.
I have to think it was either the Single Player that dictated map design, or playtesters
I think they are afraid of making a game that is very fast and has a certain kind of skill associated with speed. They probably view it as a limited demographic, and maybe even think its a genre of yesteryear.
TheCanisDirus
Member
I honestly have no idea but i'd very much like to hear them address their design choices. I'm genuinely curious to hear the process behind their decisions and vision.
The update on the fist weekend's tech test sounded very very positive... http://www.titanfall.com/en_us/news/tech-test-successes/
Jawmuncher
Member
It's understandable that some were annoyed by attrition due to it's popularity when wanting to play other modes. However no fix for a mode being too popular should be to just outright take out the mode. Just doesn't make sense for all those people who do like it. I can't imagine how things would go right now if they just up and went to cut attrition right now from T1. I've said before they can just give incentive playing other modes. Perhaps only certain modes get a double XP weekend, or other such things.
PsihoPerihelion
Member
PC players are the best players, the most amazing players you have ever seen, folks. Wonderful players!
SmackAttack
Member
This is what I'm wondering as well given the whole presentation of multiplayer has changed. Maybe the reason multi felt so alive in the first game was due to them trying to make up for no campaign but now we have one and the multi feels lifeless and empty as a result.
What made Titanfall 1 so great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9TD_pQ3Pno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9TD_pQ3Pno
TheCanisDirus
Member
I wonder of the nuclear ejections will be back in TF2.
Tokubetsu
Member
All that back and forth gone.
Real talkFTFY
This game is less than two months from release.
This is not a pre-alpha build, a REAL pre-alpha build would have been from mid to late 2014.
This is a glorified demo that serves to stress the servers and make final tweaks before release.
Not gonna lie, I was missing the nuclear ejections pretty harshly in TF2.
....but they probably should've taken a tad longer to trigger in TF1.
Even MW2 didn't have martydom (well, it sort of did, as a deathstreak), so it ought to be gone.
But I wouldn't be surprised if there was a 'Atomic' Titan that had it.
ihavemadeahugemistake.gif
Respawn discussing tech test feedback.
Not going to lie they look absolutely miserable. The look on all their faces says "what have we done?"
Hopefully they delay it and take the feedback on board seriously. The maps need to be completely redone imo (assuming they're anything like the 2 in the tech test)
Bet that was a fun meeting.
