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Trump risks major diplomatic dispute with China after speaking with Taiwan's prez
- Thread starter chadskin
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Yeah, this isn't a good sign for how Trump will handle one of the most important relationships in the world going forward. Or a number of other significant issues, for that matter.
People nodding in agreement at Trump's tweet are falling for the same tactic of simplistic formulations that fooled the American electorate. It's possible to make a good argument for this being a good move, but all that tweet proves is Trump's complete ignorance.
Carpe Carnim
Member
"Anonymous forum posters who had an undergrad class in game theory and intro to international relations should think outside the box and ignore the arguments of seasoned negotiators with decades of experience with military, politics, and economics. Who needs those elitist technocrats anyways!?"
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
But trump gets to build in Taiwan now!!!
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
It's been a theme lately. MGS2 coming true.
Atraveller
Banned
China, ally? After the past few years of tension heightening with the actual allies in the Pacific?
theignoramus
Member
Bullshit. Were not at the brink of a war over a phone call. The most the Chinese will do is throw a public tantrum and possibly do something petty in return, like have a public meeting with Assad or some other western pariah.
andythinkpad
Member
China will punish Taiwan's economy for being naughty girl who gossip with Trump behind China's back.
Of course not, just that there will be a varied view amongst experts depending on their political viewpoint. If we all just quote experts who we agree with, then we dissociate ourselves from the actual debate. How can we refute positions of people who can't reply? It doesn't make for a legitimate debate, just argue your own position, rather than argue that someone else agrees with you.
radios shipping overview
Member
I mean, to make a blunt analogy, this is like we've gone from Picard to Chris Pine's young Kirk in terms of diplomatic nuance.
Of course that's going to feel good to people who care more about what feels good than about what's actually realistic.
Of course that's going to feel good to people who care more about what feels good than about what's actually realistic.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Honestly, doubtful. He could and probably would have done that anyhow. This neither helps nor hurts that business venture.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
oh that's easy. They will say there's a plan and it's actually really smart, not as stupid as we can all see it is. This already happened with George Bush Jr. where people were essentially lining up to excuse his stupidity and general incompetence.
Just because you like someone or you think he's not the worst person ever, doesn't mean they are qualified in any way. It's kind of a tragedy of the commons really. They want someone they can relate to, but anyone who is relatable in that way could not be a worse pick for the (unrelatable) job. The only person who could relate to the job is someone who's already done it once before.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Atraveller
Banned
LOL, do you even know how close in trade China and Taiwan are?
So his actions as president have no conflict with his business interests.
Phew. I was worried guys, but it looks like we have nothing to worry about.
Yes China is still technically an ally. We have massive co-dependence on the global stage. Countries like Russia, Iran etc are what I would not consider allies.
Hexa
Member
It really does. I wonder if another Cold War would be good for the US right now.
andythinkpad
Member
Sure, and China holds all the cards.
George Washington
Member
China is not an ally.
Aruarian Reflection
Chauffeur de la gdlk
Trump is the best, man. My Taiwan family is loving this
Who cares about what feels good. This is a about Taiwan and the US. If you are really arguing that we should pretend a country doesn't exist because China will get mad then we're more further gone as fearful nation than I thought. It's a damn phone call with a country that exists and that we trade with.
First political discourse, and now international relations. He tells it like it is! I like it, the bull in a china shop approach. Appropriate.
You can tell yourself that.
Would you look at that (from two weeks ago)...
kek
Are you saying Taiwan is not a nation and communicating with them is bad?
Taiwan insists they are the real "China". Mainland included.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Hey man, I just hope he tells China to get over it. That'll be great.
The problem is that this action is all it is. It is an off the cuff policy swing with no regard or contemplation of its effects.
And China insists that they are real China, Taiwan included. What's your point?
^Foreign relations are not to be taken lightly. As President I hope he understands this.
.
And he's not even in office yet....
Wonder if this was part of the briefs he waved away.
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And he's not even in office yet....
Wonder if this was part of the briefs he waved away.
Atraveller
Banned
Ally that the US test air defense-zone with bombers? I'm afraid I don't quite understand.
*roll eyes*
I never said anything about a military relationship. More in an economic sense, our two economies are intertwined. That's because for both parties it's beneficial and I assumed we wanted to see that continue.
Extra Sauce
Member
Comedy is tragedy plus Trump.
The US has a very unique relationship with Taiwan. Although we don't officially recognize them, we still trade with them as if they were an independent nation (many American businesses are present in Taiwan and vice versa), sell them weapons, and have a defense treaty. The US has an embassy in Taiwan that serves every function of an embassy but is NOT called as such.
Given this information, you may think a phone call between the two nations isn't a big deal. It shouldn't be, but it is. The US president has not had any formal meeting with the Taiwanese president since 1979. I'm no expert of international arms deals, but I'm sure the US and Taiwanese government had a conversation between the two in order to make it happen. Just not so public. So nearly forty years of US foreign policy was just haphazardly thrown out the window with zero lead up at all. That's uh, not good. Fairly indicative of future foreign policy faux paus under the Trump administration. Diplomacy is a very complex art that is filled with imbalances and nonsense, but you need to know how to handle it effectively to keep people safe.
And my lord, why has no one STILL taken away Trump's twitter account? What purpose it is serving to his cabinet?
Given this information, you may think a phone call between the two nations isn't a big deal. It shouldn't be, but it is. The US president has not had any formal meeting with the Taiwanese president since 1979. I'm no expert of international arms deals, but I'm sure the US and Taiwanese government had a conversation between the two in order to make it happen. Just not so public. So nearly forty years of US foreign policy was just haphazardly thrown out the window with zero lead up at all. That's uh, not good. Fairly indicative of future foreign policy faux paus under the Trump administration. Diplomacy is a very complex art that is filled with imbalances and nonsense, but you need to know how to handle it effectively to keep people safe.
And my lord, why has no one STILL taken away Trump's twitter account? What purpose it is serving to his cabinet?
Bubba_Sparks
Member
I don't think some people here grasp how serious of an issue this really is, especially if it points towards a shift in the incoming administration's treatment of Taiwan. The number one priority of the Chinese military is containing and eliminating the Taiwanese government in case of an official declaration of independence. This isn't a joke, the Chinese are ready and willing to fight and die for what they see as part of their country! I honestly think Trump's administration is going to have to back pedal hard on this! I can't say for certain, but everything points to it being an issue the Chinese don't take lightly.
Atraveller
Banned
Only some people in the KMT does, Tsai's DPP is more in favor of completely scrapping the RoC title and go with Taiwan.
Then China and Taiwan are allies.
Signaling a big shift in our China policy to the world without having an actual plan is pretty bad, yeah.
radios shipping overview
Member
There is no nation known as Taiwan. The government of Taipei insists that there is only one China, and that the mainland government is not legitimate. The mainland government says the same thing about the ROC government. Even if they are de facto separate countries, this is the current state of affairs.
https://www.quora.com/Which-countries-recognize-Taiwan-as-a-country
Taiwan is the seat of the opposing government of China in a civil war that has possibly not officially ended. Not sure you want to out yourself as being on the same level on Trump in terms of foreign policy
None really. Unless you disagree with what Taiwan's goals are. Is Trump recognizing the island nation of Taiwan (which they do not see themselves as) or the country of China? It's a rhetorical and complicated question.
Robot Pants
Member
Washington outsider shaking things up just like we wanted.
interesting, i knew that's how "officially" china thinks of taiwan, didn't know it's the same the other way around lol
Rebel Leader
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