In terms of CU and Texture Unit count overall, it is between 7850 and 7870. In terms of being able to render triangles per second (1.6B/sec) it is the same as 7950/6950 which surprisingly is less than 7850 (1.72B/sec). The core clock has been turned down by 50Mhz. So overall, it is nearly identical to 7850 (same number of ROPs).
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VGleaks: Orbis Unveiled! [Updated]
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
In terms of CU and Texture Unit count overall, it is between 7850 and 7870. In terms of being able to render triangles per second (1.6B/sec) it is the same as 7950/6950 which surprisingly is less than 7850 (1.72B/sec). The core clock has been turned down by 50Mhz. So overall, it is nearly identical to 7850 (same number of ROPs).
Brad Grenz
Member
Yeah, no one has ever even claimed that Durango's "wizard jizz" actually added a large number of programmable FLOPS. The rumors we've had all along have been very consistent. Orbis: 1.8 TF. Durango: 1.2 TF. IF Durango has special GPGPU optimized compute units just like Orbis, those are probably accounted for already in the 1.2 TF number we already have, just like they were in the Orbis specs.
Death Dealer
Member
Well I think that's kind of what they have done. It's still got 18CU's for graphics, but if the developer chooses to use some of them for compute tasks, apparently 4 of the 18 have some other special functions that make them even more useful. I don't think they could have given Orbis 18CU for graphics and more CU's on top of that, like was originally implied in one of the leaks from last week, because it would be too expensive.
iceatcs
Junior Member
Better than feel like someone eating right next to my ear. I hate people eating while headset on.
Somewhere in-between the 7850 and 7870. But in all honesty it's hard to judge since neither card comes with 4GB of GDDR5, and add to that there's probably some other unique architecture amendments or customisations.
My favorite is when I can hear all the sounds from their TV - generally accompanied by terrible music.
SniperHunter
Banned
this is really interesting imo, the balance between video ram and actual ram for levels and such. I really wonder how devs will balance all of it? I guess linear games would benefit a lot since devs would be able to pack great detail in small linear levels, without wasting ram on giant open worlds. Even in terms of vram, what are some of the most intensive effects? High res textures, MSAA, super high ultra LOD with zero pop ups....
Well in all honesty, the GPU in PS4 will never use 3.5GB in real time gameplay situation because it will share the pool with a myriad non visual processes. Perhaps around 1-1.5GB and later with better optimization of ratio increase it further. Remember that PC cards generally range from 1-4GB (1 and 2GB being most common) in general today.
Hey at least we can all agree that both next-gen consoles will release with Composite cables.
Haint
Member
What do PC games use standard DDR3 system RAM for?
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
The included mic is one of the main reasons i game on the 360. When i was heavy on SSF2HDR it was rare that anyone would use a mic on the PS3. Sometimes someone would hear me asking if they had a mic and i would have to wait until they went and found theirs and then restart the game. Other times it felt like i was just playing the CPU.
I didnt have that problem at all when it came to SF4 on the 360. It was common to have people kicked out of lobbies because they didnt use their mic. I loved it.
It's more like they inflate the capability of the Gamecube. It's spoken of as if it were intelligently designed by God to be without defect or bottleneck.
Im not a fan of headsets, do the bluetooth speaker/mics work with consoles?
Something like this.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AYBEELG/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Something like this.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AYBEELG/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Ozzykamikaze
Member
You wanna fight or you wanna gossip?
Rice-Eater
Member
Wait what? People in SF4 being kicked for not having mics? I play SF4(all version) and I never use a mic nor do most people I come across no matter which platform we're talking about(I played on all 3). Basically it's not about SF4, it's about the fact that it's a 1v1 game. Unless I'm playing with friends or people on my friends list at least, I wouldn't want to have voice chat on when playing 1v1 with a stranger. Just feels way too uncomfortable IMO.
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
In the new release phase thats an easy way to learn new strategies. It was rare that i had a problem talking to strangers in SF4 lobbies. If we had a lot of good matches and a decent convo i usually added them to my friend list so we could fight again later.
Im speaking on what i experienced within the first year and a half of the games release. Every lobby i came across was full of people chatting and sharing tips. I dont see whats strange about talking to randoms. I talk to randoms if im out participating in some function i enjoy in real life, whats the problem with talking to them while playing a game i like?
I mean whats really the difference between having a convo here on a forum with strangers and on a mic? The voice bothers you?
I thought it was now 1.4 TF vs 1.2 TF.
SniperHunter
Banned
I think V-Ram is used for graphical side of things: post processing, motion blur, level of detail, shaders, textures, shadow resolution, ambient occlusion, character models details
DDR3 ram is used to store level geometry and animation I guess?
Orbis's 3.5GB of RAM will have to do both.
It depends on whether developers would like to manually assign graphics related tasks to those four CUs or not. If they do then it goes back to 1.84TF. So, according to the requirements of the game it can fluctuate between 1.4 and 1.8TF depending upon what how many out of the 4 CUs are being used for what purpose.
I think the main benefit could be that it can be something that just always works - so it comes with no overhead to the user, reading a file just works, feeding you uncompressed data, and you get variable improvement over standard disk transfer latency. I'm taking it for granted here that it'll have faster throughput than HDDs.miladesn said:
Downside to automation would be that you don't actually see the real I/O performance and throughput characteristics are variable with compression ratios. Not a huge deal, but could make profiling harder.
But if the above pans out, there should be a compressor as well, which I'd find quite a bit more interesting (tends to be much costlier to the CPU, and modern games need to write/send more and more data). Especially with the proposed CPU setup, that could be a real win to have.
Then why this:
- Minor boost if used for rendering
So as far as graphics are concerned it is 1.4.
SniperHunter
Banned
yea, that can't be good right? These days most PC games require you to have at least 4 GB of DDR3 (8 gb in case of Far Cry 3 or Planetside 2) and a modern video card with at least 2 GB GDDR5 V-ram.
Now the 3.5gb number doesn't sound so good....
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Omg
nhlducks35
Member
iamshadowlark
Banned
People are reading into that to much.
Plus the OS may use more than .5 GB , even the WiiU does.
Sometimes, kids say the darndest things.
We don't really know what that means. Minor additional boost? Minor boost compared to full 14 CU's? Minor boost compared to the advantage of using it for compute tasks or what? It's up in the air. English is not the main language of the author, that should be noted too.
There's no reason to suggest it won't be 1.8tf combined when used for only graphics rendering, but who knows. Not that it matters, because some of those CUs were always going to have to be used on compute stuff anyway, so might as well use the 4 that are more specifically beneficial for it.
Or you could explain it.
So all specs listed are excepted if it is good news for the PS4. Any specs listed that are not are ignored and brushed aside?
SniperHunter
Banned
no the OS usage will probably be reduced during gameplay...so games will probably have access to 3.7 gb ram (like vita's os)
Going from 1.4 to 1.8 is around a 29% increase. Hence, they may interpret that as "minor". This is the problem when it comes to adding adjective in lieu of sticking to facts and figures.
This issue has been explained in this thread over and over and over again. This is a customization to make Orbis a monster in terms of compute. If you give any fucks about destructability, physics, animation blending/culling, lighting, or anti aliasing, you will want this to be as customized as possible. Those 4 CU's you just wrote off, are THE secret sauce.
Go read it. Traditionally certain features / effects can cripple a GPU. Just look at how PhysX affects AMD cards. However, instead of letting that happen, Orbis has dedicated 4 CU's to make those certain features relatively painless and not as much of a burden. This is GPGPU or HSA.
In other words, this is a GOOD thing.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
No way man. You need to explain it
Brad Grenz
Member
Look, it's either:
Durango GPU: 1.2 TF Orbis GPU: 1.8 TF
Durango CPU: 100 GF Orbis CPU: 100 GF
Or it's:
Durango GPU: 1.2 TF Orbis GPU: 1.4 TF
Durango CPU: 100 GF Orbis CPU: 500 GF (CPU+Compute Module)
In either case the Orbis has a 600 GFlop advantage.
Durango GPU: 1.2 TF Orbis GPU: 1.8 TF
Durango CPU: 100 GF Orbis CPU: 100 GF
Or it's:
Durango GPU: 1.2 TF Orbis GPU: 1.4 TF
Durango CPU: 100 GF Orbis CPU: 500 GF (CPU+Compute Module)
In either case the Orbis has a 600 GFlop advantage.
phosphor112
Banned
I'm a PC kinda guy, but please, PC master race guys, can you point me to a PC that used GDDR5 for it's system ram?
I just don't see how a 29% boost can be considered minor.
Chuck Norris
Banned
WiiU's memory bandwidth 1GB@12.8 GB/s, PS4s is 3.5GB@172GB/s
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Nope.
Those extra .4 GFLOPS are taking the load off of tasks that would otherwise be shared by either the GPU/CPU, think of it as a more flexible portion of the GPU that can be allocated as necessary by the developer.
There's no reason whatsoever to somehow "subtract" it from graphical work -- that extra logic WILL be used.
So it's still 1.84 TF vs. 1.2 TF.
Given you are the master race guy, can you explain what function does general DRAM (DDR3) perform as opposed to VRAM during gameplay?
JohnnySasaki86
Member
This is the way I read the original vgleaks post earlier. I TRIED to ask about it twice cause I noticed it was never brought up, but no one noticed my post
IMO this is what the post says. Let me point out how its basically just how I THINK you should interpret the original post correctly and is not just speculation.
Each CU contains dedicated:
- ALU (32 64-bit operations per cycle) -To me, this means every CU has at least one ALU.
- Texture Unit
- L1 data cache
- Local data share (LDS)
About 14 + 4 balance:
- 4 additional CUs (410 Gflops) “extra” ALU as resource for compute -Now this is like an addendum to the above bolded information, and it means 4 of these CU has a total of TWO ALU's. Hence theres you secret sauce. Or more literally 4 CU's of the 18 are "special" and packing an little extra step in there swagger.
I have yet to read speculation about this on b3d, but will do now as it seems they may share the same train of thought and have a lot more technical know how then me. This IMO this was just basic English comprehension and paying attention to details in the way this updated info was posted(it is written below the original description of the CU's and is indented).
btw what are ALU's? I dont even know what significance this would hold. I'm assuming it just makes those 4 CU better suited for compute processes as they have 2 instead of 1. But what are they and what do they do?
Dual Shader Engines:
- 1.6 billion triangles/s, 1.6 billion vertices/s
btw what does this mean as well?
This is still good news for Orbis. It's only bad news to people who are stretching to the negatives given a highly unlikely scenario that all the CUs were going to be used for rendering, which wouldn't ever be the case in real world development. The comparison and challenge is a bit pointless.
Something similar was theorised on B3D, some even swapped the additional ALU for an SIMD.
Rice-Eater
Member
In a 1v1 environment, yeah. It probably didn't help that I used voice chat back in the old PS2 days during Madden 2003. An hour of small mainly being silent with small chit chat inbetween didn't help the matter. I guess that's just a barrier I don't want to cross unless I'm in a room full of people. I guess I just find it easier to be apart of a crowd instead of just me and another guy being focused on each other when it comes to voice chatting.
Sorry to get off topic guys.
29% is not minor.
VGLeaks also listed additional Hardware Accelerators for Durango. They just didn't list the GFs.
Chuck Norris
Banned
If those games were being loaded with DDR5 as system RAM they certainly wouldn't need 8GB
phosphor112
Banned
Lol, I'm not a "master race" guy, system ram is usually unrelated to gameplay, but when did I inquire about specifically game playback?