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[Kaako]

Flat circle, indeed.

 

[leeh]

I can play WipEout Omega collection in native 4K / 60fps right now on my PS4P. I don't even have to wait until November.

The PlayStation 4 Pro is a true 4K console. Q.E.D.

Wipeout, come on... You know what I'm portraying.

 

[OdysseusVA]

You've literally posted a list of games that are mostly dynamic resolution

And by Phil's definition are still True 4k

 

[clintar]

You've literally posted a list of games that are mostly dynamic resolution

Did he? Literally? If we are talking literals, can you please highlight those in the list for me? I'm having a hard time discerning it.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

In contrasting to the Pro, Phil said in the Verge interview that One X wasn't using techniques like this. So...

Did he?

 

[cakely]

Wipeout, come on... You know what I'm portraying.

I see that you would like to move the goalposts and discount WipEout. Why is that, I wonder?

 

[blastprocessor]

FORZA 7 4k 60 fps
FORZA Horizon 3 4k 60 fps

....

Forza Horizon will run at 4k 60 on the X??

 

[RdN]

Forza Horizon will run at 4k 60 on the X??

News to me too.. But if true, it's going to be awesome.

 

[leeh]

I see that you would like to move the goalposts and discount WipEout. Why is that, I wonder?

Because its a PS3 game with a 4K up res with graphical improvements?

 

[ProBusinessgamer]

why would it not include ALL forms of 4K... all the systems do different forms of 1080p.... Its up to the developer to choose what resources and where to put them.... but forza is native 4k, and im sure others will be as well.

 

[cakely]

Because its a PS3 game with a 4K up res with graphical improvements?

I'm guessing no matter what example is given it won't meet whatever narrow definition you've come with for "true 4k". Only Forza 7 counts, probably. Suit yourself.

 

[Heretic]

It's pretty cool that it can reach 4k in many forms. These consoles are mighty impressive.

 

[Kaako]

Wipeout, come on... You know what I'm portraying.

Ignorance?
Native 4K is native 4K. And there will be native 4K games on both Pro and X. But I still question the mindset of any AAA big budget dev house that targets native 4K on these machines.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Ignorance?
Native 4K is native 4K. And there will be native 4K games on both Pro and X. But I still question the mindset of any AAA big budget dev house that targets native 4K on these machines.

Well, they'll have to make less compromises for a native 4K AAA big budget game on Xbox One X than they will on Playstation 4 Pro, so ehh.

It's really no different with OG PS4 and XB1. 1080p was the target, the weaker platform had to sacrifice certain things to run.

 

[leeh]

I'm guessing no matter what example is given it won't meet whatever narrow definition you've come with for "true 4k". Only Forza 7 counts, probably. Suit yourself.

Uncharted 4 and TLOU run in 1440p while Gears 4 and FH3 are getting native 4K updates.

There's a large GPU & RAM difference between the Pro and the 1X, why would you even try to argue this with me?

I'm not taking anything away from those games, as they look phenomenal, but come on now.

 

[DreadfulOmen]

Because the One X was designed to allow developers to make native 4k games while the Ps4 Pro was designed to allow for checkerboard 4k games as stated by both companies who designed and marketed them. It's really not difficult to understand unless you try to interpret everything in the worst possible way.

it seems that happens a lot here on gaf.

 

[napata]

Uncharted 4 and TLOU run in 1440p while Gears 4 and FH3 are getting native 4K updates.

There's a large GPU & RAM difference between the Pro and the 1X, why would you even try to argue this with me?

I'm not taking anything away from those games, as they look phenomenal, but come on now.

TLOU is native 4k or 1800p for 60fps. Atleast if you have a 4k tv because they disabled supersampling for no reason.

 

[Shadax the wizard]

But Phil said...

 

[Vashetti]

Uncharted 4 and TLOU run in 1440p while Gears 4 and FH3 are getting native 4K updates.

There's a large GPU & RAM difference between the Pro and the 1X, why would you even try to argue this with me?

I'm not taking anything away from those games, as they look phenomenal, but come on now.

TLOU is native 2160p at 30fps or 1800p at 60fps.

 

[MisterXDTV]

But they waited a year to give us TRUE 4K, didn't they?

 

[leeh]

TLOU is native 4k or 1800p for 60fps. Atleast if you have a 4k tv because they disabled supersampling for no reason.

TLOU is native 2160p at 30fps or 1800p at 60fps.

Oops. I should proof what I remember in Google shouldn't I.

 

[clintar]

Oops. I should proof what I remember in Google shouldn't I.

Nah, that would be no fun

 

[EvB]

TLOU is native 2160p at 30fps or 1800p at 60fps.

PS3 game TLOU?

 

[VanWinkle]

Because its a PS3 game with a 4K up res with graphical improvements?

That's so disingenuous. It looks waaay better than the PS3 game. It looks like an amazing current gen game. Really, with all the improvements they made, it pretty much is.

 

[Vashetti]

PS3 game TLOU?

On PS4 Pro.

 

[cakely]

Uncharted 4 and TLOU run in 1440p while Gears 4 and FH3 are getting native 4K updates.

There's a large GPU & RAM difference between the Pro and the 1X, why would you even try to argue this with me?

I'm not taking anything away from those games, as they look phenomenal, but come on now.

Obviously, I'm not arguing that at all, and you've just made a straw man.

I gave you an example of a native 4k, 60fps game running on the PS4P and according to you, it doesn't qualify as "true 4k".

 

[f@luS]

PS3 game TLOU?

Better looking game than many current gen game TLOU ?

 

[leeh]

Obviously, I'm not arguing that at all, and you've just made a straw man.

I gave you an example of a native 4k, 60fps game running on the PS4P and according to you, it doesn't qualify as "true 4k".

Well to me, true 4k means triple AAA titles often hitting that native resolution. Like yeah, there's a decent amount of native titles, but they're mostly indies, remasters with a few exceptions and sports titles.

I suppose its subject to interpretation...

 

[Costia]

Dynamic 4k is such an oxymoron.
So if somebody makes a game with a 4K menu, or a game that sometimes hits 4k when you look at the floor, it's a "dynamic 4k" game?

 

[Tripolygon]

Well to me, true 4k means triple AAA titles often hitting that native resolution.

I suppose its subject to interpretation...

Actually no, it is not subject to your narrow interpretation. 4K means 4K, does not matter if the game is Tetris, The last of Us, The Witness, FIFA 17 or Ni-Oh. Heck to me even Horizon Zero Dawn is native 4K because it has a 2160p final render buffer.

 

[leeh]

Actually no, it is not subject to your narrow interpretation. 4K means 4K, does not matter if the game is Tetris, The last of Us, The Witness, FIFA 17 or Ni-Oh. Heck to me even Horizon Zero Dawn is native 4K because it has a 2160p final render buffer.

A console being true 4k, not a game.

I'm literally not just talking about what native 4k means here.

 

[OdysseusVA]

The goalposts are not even in view anymore

 

[GHG]

A console being true 4k, not a game.

I'm literally not just talking about what native 4k means here.

Before it was the games, now it's the console (whatever that means).

Which one is it?

Dynamic 4k is such an oxymoron.
So if somebody makes a game with a 4K menu, or a game that sometimes hits 4k when you look at the floor, it's a "dynamic 4k" game?

In Xbox terms that would be a "true 4K game". Hence the problem.

 

[Kaako]

Well to me, true 4k means triple AAA titles often hitting that native resolution. Like yeah, there's a decent amount of native titles, but they're mostly indies, remasters with a few exceptions and sports titles.

I suppose its subject to interpretation...

Hahaha that's not how it works.
Even by your own very narrow definition, the X might not be an actual true 4K machine since you dropped the word "often."

 

[Tripolygon]

A console being true 4k, not a game.

I'm literally not just talking about what native 4k means here.

And i'm saying that your narrow interpretation of what is considered true 4K being limited to AAA games is nonsense. A game is a game is a game.

Let me put it another way for you to understand. Majority of games on Xbox One are 1080p, it just so happens that most (some?) tripple A games are less than 1080p on Xbox One and full HD on PS4. Does that make Xbox One not a true 1080p console, when games like Forza, Horizon, FIFA etc are 1080p?

 

[onanie]

I didn't know the PS4 pro is ALSO a true 4K machine.

Thanks Phil.

 

[Justified]

A console being true 4k, not a game.

I'm literally not just talking about what native 4k means here.

Sounds like Monster Cable, or now, Xbox marketing lol

 

[leeh]

And i'm saying that your narrow interpretation of what is considered true 4K being limited to AAA games is nonsense. A game is a game is a game.

Let me put it another way for you to understand. Majority of games on Xbox One are 1080p, it just so happens that most (some?) tripple A games are less than 1080p on Xbox One and full HD on PS4. Does that make Xbox One not a true 1080p console, when games like Forza, Horizon, FIFA etc are 1080p?

So big budget games aren't always more often than not a lot prettier than their lower budget, more indie title counterparts? Are you saying AAA titles don't exist now?

Yeah, I'd agree that the X1 isn't a true 1080p console. If anything you've just solidified my point haha.

Hahaha that's not how it works.
Even by your own very narrow definition, the X might not be an actual true 4K machine since you dropped the word "often."

Yeah, and I'll agree with you if most AAA games aren't 4K and say they were having a laugh, but it doesn't seem to be that way at all.

 

[Tripolygon]

So big budget games aren't always more often than not a lot prettier than their lower budget, more indie title counterparts? Are you saying AAA titles don't exist now?

Yeah, I'd agree that the X1 isn't a true 1080p console. If anything you've just solidified my point haha.

No, big budget games aren't always the prettiest. There are lots more beautiful low budget games than big budget games because of art style. No i do not agree that Xbox One is not a 1080p console just because you make up an arbitrary narrow criteria to fit some narrative of what a true 4K console is. There has never been a true X resolution console designation for any console ever. There have however been certain common capabilities that defined a given generation like 8bit, 16bit, 32bit/3D polygon era etc. Last gen was considered HD and majority of console games were 720p or less.

You are however free to call whatever console you like true 1080p or 4K console if that makes you happy.

 

[Bravoexo]

Lets just wait Digital Foundry's official review.

 

[onQ123]

You've literally posted a list of games that are mostly dynamic resolution

Is it more than 1 native 4K indie game in that list?

 

[Neuromancer]

From where I'm standing Xbox One X's true 4k is better than Playstation Pro's true 4k but Xbox One X's fake 4k is worse than Playstation's fake 4k. It's a wash.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

I heard from a extremely highly totallly reliable website, top tier gaming journalist that Xbox is forced to checkerboard because Sony paid off 3rd party developers

 

[Kaako]

From where I'm standing Xbox One X's true 4k is better than Playstation Pro's true 4k but Xbox One X's fake 4k is worse than Playstation's fake 4k. It's a wash.

The mathematics checks out. It's a wash.

 

[Bravoexo]

At least we know were dealing with 4K assets when its an Xbox One X enhanced game. Can't wait for the next argument... Game download size for those 4K assets. Gears 4 will probably break 200gb...yikes

 

[BlackClouds]

I was following this console from rumor to reveal and I don't recall any talk about checkerboarding and dynamic 4k, just true native 4k. Common sense would say that not all games will run at native 4k straight up but this is something that MS really downplayed. I know there's fanboys out there who were running with the true 4k thing.

 

[onQ123]

I was following this console from rumor to reveal and I don't recall any talk about checkerboarding and dynamic 4k, just true native 4k. Common sense would say that not all games will run at native 4k straight up but this is something that MS really downplayed. I know there's fanboys out there who were running with the true 4k thing.

Guess you missed a few things



The platform holder also recommends several techniques in improving efficiency without unduly impacting image quality, citing half-resolution and 'sparse' rendering as two examples. Half-resolution is a technique we've seen before, where intensive GPU effects are cut down in size to effect efficiency savings, sitting within a full resolution framebuffer.

"Half-resolution rendering is typically used for transparencies and screen-space effects, SSAO, SSR, and perhaps even shadow accumulation, global illumination and non-important local lights," the white paper reveals. "On Project Scorpio, a half-resolution effect rendered at 1080p and bilaterally up-sampled to 4K could look as good or better than the same effect rendered at full resolution on Xbox One. For example, on Xbox One, the effect is produced at full resolution, say 900p, but on Project Scorpio, the effect is produced at 1080p, which is half resolution."

In effect, Microsoft is saying that half-res effects run at 1080p in a 4K framebuffer will look better than a native 900p, which is difficult to argue with. The second major technique it advocates is 'sparse rendering' - which is better known in the post-PS4 Pro era as checkerboarding. Not only does Microsoft advocate the same technique for Scorpio, it also cites the same impressive work by Ubisoft seen in Rainbow Six Siege - to the point where the exact same presentation shown to me by Mark Cerny a few months back is referenced in the whitepaper. Of course, the technique has evolved further since then, with the same core technology also used in the PC and PS4 Pro versions of Watch Dogs 2, with exceptional results.


Microsoft's whitepaper describes a first-party 1080p title it has running at native 4K - our guess here would be that it's talking about the Forza Motorsport engine.
Microsoft also strongly advocates the use of dynamic resolution scaling within the whitepaper, and it describes it as titles aliasing "a vector of render targets in the same virtual address space, and at runtime choose which to index, increasing or decreasing resolution based on whether the GPU is completing early or late. Thanks to DirectX12, this aliasing can be achieved on all of PC, Xbox One, Xbox One S and Project Scorpio."

On the face of it, the in-depth discussion of techniques like this may be suggesting that Scorpio isn't the 'true 4K' console that Microsoft marketed it as at E3 2016. But the practical reality is that the document confirms that at least one first-party 1080p title has transitioned relatively easily to native 4K (our best guess would be the Forza Motorsport engine is the technology in question here), and accepts the reality that GPU resources aren't always best spent on precision pixel-work at ultra HD resolutions.

 

[nynt9]

At least we know were dealing with 4K assets when its an Xbox One X enhanced game. Can't wait for the next argument... Game download size for those 4K assets. Gears 4 will probably break 200gb...yikes

Can you define "4K assets"?

 

[jroc74]

Oohhh the XBO X is using checker board for 4K.

This is why company folks shouldn't get involved in console wars, phone wars, etc.

Promote your product, but try to leave fanboyism out of it.

No, big budget games aren't always the prettiest. There are lots more beautiful low budget games than big budget games because of art style. No i do not agree that Xbox One is not a 1080p console just because you make up an arbitrary narrow criteria to fit some narrative of what a true 4K console is. There has never been a true X resolution console designation for any console ever. There have however been certain common capabilities that defined a given generation like 8bit, 16bit, 32bit/3D polygon era etc. Last gen was considered HD and majority of console games were 720p or less.

You are however free to call whatever console you like true 1080p or 4K console if that makes you happy.

.

 

[BatSu]

Forza Horizon will run at 4k 60 on the X??

Well that says here

Spanish

http://www.hobbyconsolas.com/noticias/forza-horizon-xbox-scorpio-vera-como-windows-10-83474