Ever consider becoming a police officer? Someone who thinks "Big deal, he can buy another dog" sounds perfect for the force.
Edit: I know all police officers aren't like this but jesus, thats such a terrible thing to say
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Cop kills Dog. Owner just a tad more than slightly pissed off.
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Ever consider becoming a police officer? Someone who thinks "Big deal, he can buy another dog" sounds perfect for the force.
Edit: I know all police officers aren't like this but jesus, thats such a terrible thing to say
Cloud Strife
Member
Gonna ignore my post?
A motorist who purposefully hits a dog is a horrible example. In what world would someone driving a car hit a dog on purpose when it wasn't justified?
Killing the dog in this situation was unjustified. I'm not hating all cops, nor am I hating all motorists. I'm hating someone who kills for no sensible reason.
soundahfekz
Member
The majority of this thread specifically condemned the actions of the sole officer responsible. Some even acknowledged that his co workers seemed conflicted and sad that the dog was killed. Yet in you come making (hypocritical) assertions about a minuscule component of the thread making blanket statments about cops in general. Talk about taking what you want away from a thread.
Amentallica
Unconfirmed Member
If the dog was a person the reactions would be very similar. What the hell do you even mean?
NJDEN
Member
Sorry, I did not see your post.
I'm just tying to present a reasonable situation and that was the first that came to mind.
But I agree with you, anyone that would kill an animal like that is truly a scumbag.
wsoxfan1214
Banned
smfh
Well, I have military background, my point of view in life can be different. And for those who you say are getting offended for animals...are they vegan? vegetarians? There are plenty of animals besides dogs. I'm not only a dog owner, but I cease and decease to eat meat because of how animals are treated at animal farms. How many of the animals lovers in this thread can say the same thing?
And yes, a police officer has different weapons (lethal/non-lethal) at his disposal. However, it "depends on the circumstances". Where I am focusing is whether the cop had legal grounds to be in the guy's backyard. That's what this whole case will focus on, and perhaps agency policy and training/experience.
The officer involved in the case does not have to be present, because of legal matters. The supervisor probably sent him away. This is not unusual after a firearm is discharged while on duty.
Why would I put my life on the line, daily, for people like you who can't even give me the benefit of the doubt?
Cloud Strife
Member
And I agree with you on the point that not all cops are trigger-happy. Regardless, this was a fucked up situation that, in my mind, never needed to happen given the information we have.
Finished watching the video. What an asshole officer. What gets me the most is that he leaves and his co-workers have to take the blame for it.
Then again if someone is set off so easily with a dog barking at them, maybe it was smart for him to leave?
Really hope this guy gets the justice he deserves.
Then again if someone is set off so easily with a dog barking at them, maybe it was smart for him to leave?
Really hope this guy gets the justice he deserves.
charlequin
Banned
I don't see how this would pass the exigent circumstance test. The police were acting on a general request to find a child; they didn't have information reliably suggesting the child had left the home (clearly, since in fact the child had not) and couldn't possibly have had probable cause to suspect that the child was hiding in this particular yard. It's also extremely unlikely that the officers observed something in plain sight that justified a closer search since, again, the child was not in fact hiding in this yard.
If this is justified, you create a situation where an unsupported and unverified report of a missing child can create a justification for a police search of any private property within a wide radius of the report.
They wouldn't. The thing is that that can't be a factor in whether or not people criticize the misbehavior that is already happening. If police are corrupt and acting inappropriately, you can't sweep that under the rug in the hopes that better prospects will apply in the future; you have to rip the bad elements out root-and-branch and implement wide-scale institutional reforms.
Who isn't giving you the benefit of the doubt? We actually established right upfront that you think it's okay for cops to kill people's dogs on flimsy pretenses!
soundahfekz
Member
charlequin
Banned
Don't do this. Seriously, don't.
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
If you were in a situation in the military where your friends/brothers who you've been on patrol with for a number of years shot and killed someones pet for fun would you tell a CO when you got back to base or cover for you friend "cause it's just a dog" and you don't know that random civillian but you do know your good soldier comrade.
Cause THAT is the reason a lot of people don't appreciate and in fact fear a lot of cops. And it's a wide spread problem that goes beyond just the very bad apples and bleeds into the careers of otherwise upstanding officers. If they take the plunge to attempt any exposure of the worst elements of their dept. they are at a HUGE risk of losing their entire career overnight.
To act like this isn't the case in most states in the US is being willfully ignorant.
Did you even get the context? Amazing how you can just pick one little detail...
I never said we should sweep under the rug bad behavior. I'm saying the "all cops are pigs" and the "fuck the police" attitude is counter productive. We should absolutely criticize crooked cops. People SHOULD be angry. But I think it's misguided when it starts to become a default blanket attitude towards the profession.
I think that is a negative thing that only continues the cycle (as less people are going to want to get into a profession where they know they are going to be labeled under the same branch as crooked cops). Police work can't be done effectively without the participation of the community. To be clear, departments that protect corrupt officers, and the continuous cases of officers not doing their job correctly is to blame for this. I'm not shifting the blame on anyone else but them. I'm also not saying that people should treat them with kid gloves (because it might deter people from joining the profession). Not at all.
Just saying, I don't think taking on a blanket attitude towards the whole thing is the right way to go to fix this issue (which is clearly a system issue).
Cloud Strife
Member
EchoChamber
Member
oh god hahaha military background, the vegan argument your junior membership is the icing on the cake.
That, right there, emotional attachment is KEY to how this man reacted. You would really be just as hurt to find out a pig at the butcher was killed than finding out YOUR dog was killed? I find that hard to believe...because you would be in constant emotional distress knowing these animals are being slaughtered. For some reason...your telling this man to detach himself from someone he considered his best friend.
Did he have proper grounds? I don't know...but you used the word exigent. By the very definition of that word...the cop was wrong for what did he based on the story HIS fellow officers told the dog owner.
An exigent circumstance, in the criminal procedure law of the United States, allows law enforcement, under certain circumstances, to enter a structure without a search warrant or, if they have a "knock and announce" warrant, without knocking and waiting for refusal. It must be a situation where people are in imminent danger, evidence faces imminent destruction, or a suspect's imminent escape.
You're willfully ignoring the story the OFFICER in the video told. He told the owner what happened. Their demeanor clearly shows the situation could've been handled in a better way. It's not hard to see that....they were non aggressive to this man being emotional. Natural human behavior mixed with their story tells you all you need to know.
The last part....good to know.
What's truly amazing is that your attitude towards animal farms is completely contradictory to your utter bewilderment at the dog owners reaction.
EDIT: Great minds ... theWB27.
Wow, this post makes me really angry. This guy's best friend was just murdered, and you feel nothing for him? You expect him to be composed after just getting this news? I'm guessing you've never had a dog before.
Summer Haze
Banned
I hope that's sarcasm. He was on private property, what he should have done was get the fuck off of that ground and not be so trigger happy.
"Standing his ground" my ass.
No. This is not the right thing to do.
I'd never cover such an inhumane act for "buddyship" (I'd probably get ostracized). I think I get your point though, and not every cop is honest and hardworking, but I've met my fair share. I respect the fact that when the bullets fly, they're the ones that go towards them (or should). It's not an easy thing to do...
NJDEN
Member
Yeah, the majority. I'm referencing any that label law enforcement in general as evil, specifically the officers. In reality its the administration that people have a problem with, lots of individual police officers want to do good for the community. Perhaps it was wrong of me to say "a lot of bashing police", but is my post really so unrelated to the topic of discussion? I don't think so, but you may see it differently.
Besides, I did say my feelings for the owner and I wish him the best...
soundahfekz
Member
I'm just going to let general consensus of the thread pick apart at that last post. I don't even have the energy to understand the leaps in logic you're making
speculawyer
Member
Why don't they just mace the dog if they are such pussies?
They really should not be discharging a gun in a residential area unless they really need to.
They really should not be discharging a gun in a residential area unless they really need to.
I think I should apologize. I kind of did this (because a couple of posts kind of rubbed me the wrong way). But you are right, the entire thread was not about this. I shouldn't have engaged in this debate, when it was about this specific case (and this specific cop).
My deepest apologies.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
Exactly. Fucking coward with a gun on a power trip.
The Grim Heaper
Member
Er, Weimaraners aren't aggressive toward strangers and certainly, in my experience, don't attack on sight. They'll bark and sometimes attack other animals, but not usually humans. With all the terrible trigger happy stories out there from cops, it's hard to see how this wasn't an accident.
And it's pretty shitty that the officer in question was trespassing on the owner's property. If you need to look, look over the fence or get a warrant.
And it's pretty shitty that the officer in question was trespassing on the owner's property. If you need to look, look over the fence or get a warrant.
soundahfekz
Member
I wasn't directing that post toward you, but if you feel like you did what was described then it's all good. we're all passionate about something and it's easy to get frustrated at times
To me, there's a difference between hearing that some stranger went into my home and shot my dog. And hearing that a police officer (uniformed and on duty) went into my home and shot my dog? Can we agree there's a difference? I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, that his presence at my residence is justifiable.
Sure, the guy was upset because his dog die. If I were in his place, I'd like to hear the whole story first, before accusing the police (which the guy appeared to be doing, and this is what made me think of "pending lawsuit). I'd like to think that any reasonable person would like to hear about the "facts", and then make a judgement. Outright confronting the police about the incident, as if they are truly guilty, it's poor judgement.
And my whole point was, what good is that going to do to me? I much rather get my day in court.
As far as the exigent circumstance, as I've mentioned before, if the police officer was looking for a child (who's life is not in immediate danger), and goes into private property without any other legal grounds, he likely is liable for shooting the dog. At this point, whether the dog was aggressive or not, has less of a significance.
charlequin
Banned
The phrase "fuck the police" originates with the 1998 NWA song, a response to a period of unrestrained violence and racism by the LAPD, an infamously problematic organization run by Daryl Gates, one of the single biggest contributors to police militarization and institutional racism in the country's history. It was a response to police malfeasance that most white or middle-class people in the country had zero exposure to, which only received any real attention years later during the Rodney King trial and subsequent riots, and which still continues to this day in an ongoing pattern of racially-biased actions by the LAPD.
So, I mean, it's gonna come off as inevitably hyperbolic when a white, middle-class person, shielded from most of the situation that originally prompted it, says it now, but it originates from a justified and legitimate anger at serious police misbehavior. An institution like the police should have to earn its reputation and immunity from this type of anger, and US police by and large have failed to do so.
Poor judgment? It was a reasonable and predictable response. WTF are you on about?
Your pet of three years was just shot dead. It wouldn't have mattered if it was on purpose or not during the moment you find out.
HalfBakedProphet
Member
yeah, I thought the same thing. Opening fire in a neighborhood while looking for a lost three year old...that isn't recipe for disaster or anything
Thanks. I know it was directed at another poster. But I did realize that I was engaging in a side debate that was taking away from the actual issue here (which is this specific cop, and this case). Or rather, I think I was extracting something that wasn't really happening in this thread.
I basically see it like this, there is clearly a huge problem with police departments and the system on a larger scale. There are too many cases and instances of departments protecting their own over corruption or incompetence for it to be a small problem. I personally don't think the solution is to have a blanket/assumption that paints the entire profession under this (just because I think it's counter-productive). But I totally get why people are angry and upset.
It's extremely frustrating and disheartening to keep hearing story after story about cops doing terrible things and getting away with it. I personally believe the solution is getting more "good people" to sign up for the profession. But obviously that is a silly idealism. It would take more then that (people pushing and demanding for change). Or in some cases fighting back (like past riots).
Are they doing it for the same reason? If so, then no.
If that girl were missing, and say the neighborhood were looking for her, then one of the lookers did the exact same thing as the officer...the badge doesn't make it any more right than the looker.
What's worse...is knowing the officer has formal training to prevent such results from happening, armed with non- lethal options.
I also can't keep commenting on your response...it's clear you're a lot more "in control" of those emotions. I'm not the most emotional person either...but it doesn't ask much, as one human being to another, to empathize with what this man could've been feeling with both your knowledge as a pet owner and knowing how attached others are to their pets.
charlequin
Banned
Let's put aside all the hypotheticals for a second. The person in the OP (who had a meeting with police afterwards), as well as a broad swathe of people who reflected on the full details of the case in this thread, have heard the whole story and agreed it meant the officer was at fault..
I know where it originates from. And you are right, there are certain instances where if corruption and injustice is so large and unchanging, fighting back is the only option. But do you still really think it's logical to have a blanket attitude towards an entire profession? You think that's productive? I personally don't think it is. Criticizing departments and crooked cops and fighting for justice is one thing. To say every cop and an entire profession is bad, to me doesn't really work towards fixing the issues. (To be clear, I wasn't saying that you or the majority of this thread was saying that).
As as I said in my post above, I was wrong for taking this in that direction (as I don't think that is what this thread was saying). So bah. If I'm wrong (about the point I made above), then I'm open to admitting I'm wrong.
Pretty much sums up the whole reason for the gun control debate and the inherent problem with an entire country having a massive hard-on for violence.
StanleyStutters
Member
The man's dog was just gunned down in his own backyard. Of course he is upset and blaming the ones who shot him. Whether it was a cop or not is irrelevant in that moment. He is shocked and sadden that his friend was just killed. I've been a pet owner all my life I'd be an emotional mess too if my animal was killed while he was supposed to be safe in the backyard.
The most dangerous gang in America needs no warrants.
wsoxfan1214
Banned
People who flaunt the not being a junior shit are so obnoxious. Come the fuck on
And here's this totally original bullshit again.
I don't get why people can't have sympathy for someone over them losing their dog. Animals for many, are like family members. Even if you personally don't value an animal's life 1:1 with a human life, enough people DO that you should still feel bad for the person that just lost their animal, especially when it was in a way that never should have happened to begin with.
I dont understand why it was OK for the cops to be on his property in the first place? Was there really a kid there? Can the cops kill and destroy anything in their way when they go on these searches??
charlequin
Banned
I think it's pretty logical for people in marginalized populations, people who are directly exposed to police malfeasance, or people who aren't rich enough to seriously benefit from police protection of their property to have a net-negative opinion of the police, yes.
Is actually saying "fuck the police" the most practical way to respond in pursuit of reform? Assuredly not, but at a certain point there's only so practical you can expect people to be about this sort of thing. Having a family member killed by an authority figure whose job is supposed to be protecting civilians, and knowing that justice is extremely unlikely thanks to institutional bias and the Blue Code, is incredibly disheartening. It's hard to know where to start outside of raw, incoherent anger.
The department's claim is that it was justified by exigent circumstances, which allows police to search without a warrant when they are acting under time pressure in order to protect a person's life and they have probable cause to believe their search is relevant to the case. I find their particular application of that justification extremely broad in this case; it would essentially justify them in searching every house in a neighborhood without a warrant after a single, unverified report of a missing child.
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