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[Elandyll]

Who says i'm starting a fight? You guys are the ones getting all the defensive because someone is pointing objective flaws in something you like.

The texture filtering in that BB shot is shit. The DoF and CA make some stuff look AA'd (Because it's blending those pixels with the effect which can make it harder to tell if you don't know what to look for)

There are a ton of raw edges. And considering the main character is on the screen 100% of the time, there's no way anyone would devise an AA solution that skips that entirely.

So my point stands. Either effects are muddying things up with 0 AA, or non-existent AA. Every other shot in that thread i've seen exhibits the same issues.



Just because a bunch of kids are smoking, doesn't make it any less healthy for them vs the few that don't.

CA is a visual defect of camera lenses that obscures the chroma detail that is supposed to be resent and is 9/10 times removed as much as possibleif existing in the insane ways they implement it in games. And personally it hurts my eyes even in motion. It's like trying to watch an Anaglyph 3D movie without the glasses.

It's this generation's bloom and bump mapping.

I fail to understand any objective purpose or anything of value CA adds to 3D Rendering. It certainly doesn't look realistic.

It makes about as much sense as only using 4xAF over 16xAF universally.

I think that what gets to people is that

1) Your "tone" is coming across as dickish

2) Your hyperboles do not help your points.
The game obviously has -some- level of AA, and -some- level of texture filtering.

3) As per CA being the end of all things, well it's up to personal taste I guess. If it's there, there's probably a reason.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

I can't help but see the salt whenever someone starts discussing Bloodborne IQ. I mean, yeh, the game is not perfect visually but does this matter when the game is good and has a stable fps? It also has a decent enough AF from what I have seen, and not like the multiplatform releases that are in the OP.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Guys freaking chill and focus.
Bloodborne isnt even out yet.

What other PS4 games have glaringly missing AF?
The DmC guys are looking into it. What other devs can we bother?

This reminded me that Square Enix is going to be doing a survey exclusively for the people who played the FFXV demo for input, everyone here who has the demo (you need to keep your download code according to them to take part in the survey) make sure you list the lack of AF on everything but the paved road.

 

[BONKERS]

You need to chill and just play the damn games instead of having an anuerysm about non pristine image quality. We have Bloodborne. I'm glad it exists. I would rather it exist as it is than not exist at all. Honestly the game looks beautiful to me. It must really suck being the kind of person who sees the images posted in this thread and only seeing flaws. I mean seriously how pessimistic does one have to be to call these shots

unacceptable.

Yeah, because it doesn't look like that in motion either. /Sarcasm. Because it does. And excuse me for criticizing the quality of AF and other aspects in a thread trying to figure out why the PS4 often has lower quality AF than the XBO and low quality AF in general. (The # games that have HQ AF are much lower than those that don't. GoW3 Remastered screenshots shown don't have 16xAF either for example)

But also,if you recall, I never once said I didn't like BB. I never said it didn't have any merits either. I never said it should never exist. I never even said it should have a PC version. I also never once said it was "Unacceptable" I only mentioned objectively that the IQ is mediocre. Which is true. Especially compared to the screenshots they release of it themselves. And I also only mentioned that games with obviously such a huge amount of hard work put into creating a beautiful world deserve better than the shitty IQ that it is given.

Now who is only seeing negative?

It's like you kids are seeing red at the mention of objective criticism of something you like.

 

[Jawbreaker]

I think that what gets to people is that

1) Your "tone" is coming across as dickish

2) Your hyperboles do not help your points.
The game obviously has -some- level of AA, and -some- level of texture filtering.

3) As per AC being the end of all things, well it's up to personal taste I guess. If it's there, there's probably a reason.

Don't forget that he chose the wrong thread to go on a tangent about Bloodborne's IQ. It would have made sense to merely comment about the AF, but that simply wasn't enough.

 

[Lutherian]

Is there anyone here playing BloodBorne already ? If so, can you upload a screenshot to put an end to this madness ?

 

[travisbickle]

Great timing for Bloodborne, we were all bored complaining about devs sacrificing content/gameplay for visual fidelity.

 

[Javin98]

I'm sure pretty soon we'll be moving on to how massively downgraded Bloodborne was compared to previous trailers.

 

[Renekton]

Just because a bunch of kids are smoking, doesn't make it any less healthy for them vs the few that don't.

CA is a visual defect of camera lenses that obscures the chroma detail that is supposed to be resent and is 9/10 times removed as much as possibleif existing in the insane ways they implement it in games. And personally it hurts my eyes even in motion. It's like trying to watch an Anaglyph 3D movie without the glasses.

It's this generation's bloom and bump mapping.

I fail to understand any objective purpose or anything of value CA adds to 3D Rendering. It certainly doesn't look realistic.

Dat framing, you equate CA with smoking which is universally regarded as bad.

Subjectively, it does have that unnerving effect on me. So that's probably what the developers are going for.

Yes, you don't like them and you have your valid subjective reasons. But jury is out whether, for the potentially hundreds of thousands of people playing BB, it helps or detracts from BB's atmosphere.

 

[WordsintheWater]

Yeah, because it doesn't look like that in motion either. /Sarcasm. Because it does. And excuse me for criticizing the quality of AF and other aspects in a thread trying to figure out why the PS4 often has lower quality AF than the XBO and low quality AF in general. (The # games that have HQ AF are much lower than those that don't. GoW3 Remastered screenshots shown don't have 16xAF either for example)

But also,if you recall, I never once said I didn't like BB. I never said it didn't have any merits either. I never said it should never exist. I never even said it should have a PC version. I also never once said it was "Unacceptable" I only mentioned objectively that the IQ is mediocre. Which is true.

Now who is only seeing negative?

It's like you kids are seeing red at the mention of objective criticism of something you like.

See, when you say things like this you really do come off as a condescending prick. You may have actual knowledge on the subject, but the only thing I can focus on is your terrible tone the last few posts, muddies your whole opinion.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Yeah, because it doesn't look like that in motion either. /Sarcasm. Because it does. And excuse me for criticizing the quality of AF and other aspects in a thread trying to figure out why the PS4 often has lower quality AF than the XBO and low quality AF in general.

But also,if you recall, I never once said I didn't like BB. I never said it didn't have any merits either. I never said it should never exist. I never even said it should have a PC version.

Now who is only seeing negative?

It's like you kids are seeing red at the mention of objective criticism of something you like.

The instant Bloodborne was brought up you started talking about the general IQ beyond the AF, something entirely irrelevant to this thread, then you insulted people by calling them apologists. Then you start going off in a very abrasive way about how people are being too defensive about the game AND now you are calling people kids. Maybe you should look at the way you are speaking and see why people are reacting the way they are to what you are saying.

 

[Cuyejo]

Even in other screens you're able to make out the exact things he listed.

I'm not hating on the game but I really wished this game had a better IQ. Some decent AA would have improved the look considerably.

I really wish FromSoft hired better programmers or used a better engine.

Actually the AA seems decent, it's the chromatic aberration that looks awful. Hope it gets patched to be optional down in the future.

 

[red731]

This thread got bonkers AF(x16).

 

[Lord Error]

I fail to understand any objective purpose or anything of value CA adds to 3D Rendering. It certainly doesn't look realistic.

CA is a cool looking effect that adds authenticity to the old-timey visuals, because you would expect them to be shot through a less than perfect lens. I think it fits the bill perfectly in BB and TO1886. That aside, the effect in general makes visuals look more camera-like and less videogame like and synthetic, so it makes sense to me that devs would want it applied to certain types of visuals. As for complaining that it ruins the image detail - the effect is only really applied stronger to the sides of the screen, where is normally a visual periphery. If you want to see the detail better that's covered by CA, you can always just point the camera right towards said detail.

 

[BONKERS]

No professional cinematographer would accept an expensive ass camera that had a lot of CA problems. Just the same as any sane individual would want RGB out of a retro console rather than composite with all of it's rainbow artifacts and fringing.

The human eye does not exhibit CA, the human eye does have DoF (Turn on an overhead fan light. Put your hand in front of your face about 6-12" out focus your eye between the light and your hand while also looking at the out of focus areas with your eye), it does have motion blur, it does have a higher dynamic range of possible vision than the typical camera. It does have adaptation rates to sudden changes in the amount of light. All of these kinds of effects make sense in rendering for that exact purpose. CA does not fit.

Old timey is weird way to put it, as if old early color photography suffered the issue in any remotely similar way (As I mention below. If it's there, it's subtle fringes. Not in your face rainbows on fine detail)
http://3zgehi1uaxi23dphbrgqa50r6z.w...-content/uploads/2013/01/Pont-Alexandre-I.jpg http://3zgehi1uaxi23dphbrgqa50r6z.w...-content/uploads/2013/01/Notre-Dame-1920.jpeg

We want to render this ultra clean picture, but then take RGB and split it off in random directions because it somehow makes it look more real? Imperfections that actually exist make sense. Using CA in ways that make sense if simulating a film camera, make sense. As extremely subtle fringes within out of focus elements or high exposure elements with fast shutter speed.


From what I have played and seen of The Order, it's one of the ones that actually do it in a respectable way.
It's barely noticeable. Like it should be with any decent quality camera. Because this game is actually going for emulating a camera and it does it right.

 

[Durante]

I think that what gets to people is that

1) Your "tone" is coming across as dickish

2) Your hyperboles do not help your points.
The game obviously has -some- level of AA, and -some- level of texture filtering.

Every game has "some" level of texture filtering. Even point sampling is a level of texture filtering

That said, Bloodborne certainly doesn't seem to be a good game to use as an argument for only multiplatform PS4 games failing at providing decent AF.

 

[Freshmaker]

CA is a cool looking effect that adds authenticity to the old-timey visuals, because you would expect them to be shot through a less than perfect lens.

Neither are being shot with a lens of any sort. It's an undesirable visual artifact that is never needed.

Unless you're playing as the cameraman, knock this crap off.

 

[23qwerty]

CA's usually nice, but it looks a bit suspicious in bloodborne there, hard to actually tell when its just a screenshot though

 

[Pocky4Th3Win]

From all the streams I watched I couldn't even tell BB had CA till I saw those shots. Effect must be reduced in motion or stream quality hid it well.

 

[OfficerZap]

Yeah, because it doesn't look like that in motion either. /Sarcasm. Because it does. And excuse me for criticizing the quality of AF and other aspects in a thread trying to figure out why the PS4 often has lower quality AF than the XBO and low quality AF in general. (The # games that have HQ AF are much lower than those that don't. GoW3 Remastered screenshots shown don't have 16xAF either for example)

But also,if you recall, I never once said I didn't like BB. I never said it didn't have any merits either. I never said it should never exist. I never even said it should have a PC version. I also never once said it was "Unacceptable" I only mentioned objectively that the IQ is mediocre. Which is true. Especially compared to the screenshots they release of it themselves. And I also only mentioned that games with obviously such a huge amount of hard work put into creating a beautiful world deserve better than the shitty IQ that it is given.

Now who is only seeing negative?

It's like you kids are seeing red at the mention of objective criticism of something you like.

I'm worried about your blood pressure. Seriously.

 

[OfficerZap]

That out of the way, I feel sorry for the console devs.

There's some people that just want awesome gaming and spit chips when content is lacking or short, like the Order.

There's others who flip tables at a tiny graphical blemish.

Really can't win.

 

[Hypron]

That out of the way, I feel sorry for the console devs.

There's some people that just want awesome gaming and spit chips when content is lacking or short, like the Order.

There's others who flip tables at a tiny graphical blemish.

Really can't win.

Bad AF is certainly not a tiny graphical blemish.

 

[OfficerZap]

Bad AF is certainly not a tiny graphical blemish.

Fair, but it's not the only thing that is regularly jumped on in terms of graphics.

My understanding was that the AF issue was able to be resolved with an update, but hasn't been applied yet.

Actually, let me track down the source on that....

 

[Slaythe]

Yeah, because it doesn't look like that in motion either. /Sarcasm. Because it does. And excuse me for criticizing the quality of AF and other aspects in a thread trying to figure out why the PS4 often has lower quality AF than the XBO and low quality AF in general. (The # games that have HQ AF are much lower than those that don't. GoW3 Remastered screenshots shown don't have 16xAF either for example)

But also,if you recall, I never once said I didn't like BB. I never said it didn't have any merits either. I never said it should never exist. I never even said it should have a PC version. I also never once said it was "Unacceptable" I only mentioned objectively that the IQ is mediocre. Which is true. Especially compared to the screenshots they release of it themselves. And I also only mentioned that games with obviously such a huge amount of hard work put into creating a beautiful world deserve better than the shitty IQ that it is given.

Now who is only seeing negative?

It's like you kids are seeing red at the mention of objective criticism of something you like.

Wait what ?

The xbox one doesn't do AF better.

Here are the only cases to date :

1) ps4 has better af

2) ps4 has identical af

3) ps4 has absolutely NO af

It s not like ps4 has x4 and xbox x16.

This thread is dedicated to case number 3. And we have seen with Dying light that it s a fixable issue.The next possible save is DmC. And if they cant fix it i m sure they will share some light as to why it cant be. Then we can assume there is a problem or not, but right now it s too soon. This is actually the first case where a dev is looking into it, dying light just fixed it without talking about it.

As for the low IQ of a lot of console games, I think it s because you re not meant to be standing right in front of your screen like for PC, and they use iq filters / options elsewhere.Not saying it s a good thing, but given how many console games have bad IQ..

I am still amazed at second son. For a first game on ps4, sucker punch really nailed it.

 

[dr_rus]

The AF does not look to be great... Look at the lower left where the dirt next to the rocks has a mudded image rather than a sharper image that 16XAF would bring. But yeah, the IQ compared to games like Forza Horizon 2 look pretty low in this screen.

These aren't simple textures, there are some geometric details and a lot of bump / specular layers there. AF can't take care of such cases since this isn't a simple texture fetch. From the looks of the texture under the feet of that guy I can say that AF is there and it's 4x at least - which is good enough for a game which is using post AA / lots of post processing which will blur the scene right back anyway even if you'll enable 16x.

AF is enabled per texture to save some performance and in the screenshot I've posted it is enabled where it's needed and it doesn't where it's not. That's completely fine (for a console game).

 

[moniker]

The CA on those Bloodborne shots looks terrible, yikes. The Order looks great though, just some very subtle and soft fringing.

 

[GRaider81]

I now know what AF is thanks to GAF. What is CA and what should I be looking for?

 

[red731]

I now know what AF is thanks to GAF. What is CA and what should I be looking for?

Chromatic aberartion, fringing near the edges of objects more to the edges of screen and google.

 

[drotahorror]

I never noticed the CA in any of the bloodborne videos I had seen. But it's super noticeable in these screenshots. Why did I never notice it til now I wonder? I'm usually very sensitive to CA.

 

[Pop]

I now know what AF is thanks to GAF. What is CA and what should I be looking for?

That's some really awful CA use. The game has a lot of thin details and it just ruins it.

Like, wtf.

By all means, zoom in a little more.

 

[GRaider81]

Chromatic aberartion, fringing near the edges of objects more to the edges of screen and google.

Ah thanks, yes I can see what you mean.

 

[d9b]

Actually the AA seems decent, it's the chromatic aberration that looks awful. Hope it gets patched to be optional down in the future.

I don't mind chromatic aberration effect... I guess I'm one of the few, everyone else thinks it's "chromatic abomination".

 

[Auto-Reply]

I now know what AF is thanks to GAF. What is CA and what should I be looking for?

https://photographylife.com/what-is-chromatic-aberration

There are very new lenses that can completely avoid chromatic abberation
http://petapixel.com/2015/02/20/this-new-flat-lens-captures-perfect-colors-without-chromatic-aberration/

I imagine these will find their way into cameras sooner or later and chromatic abberation will be a thing of the past and hopefully videogame developers come to their senses again.

 

[deoee]

Is there anyone here playing BloodBorne already ? If so, can you upload a screenshot to put an end to this madness ?

Here's some random screenshots:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAvFW3fWsAAhImX.jpg:orig
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAvFOcCW8AESwSF.jpg:orig
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAn7gYfWQAAiB6V.jpg:orig

 

[drotahorror]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAn7gYfWQAAiB6V.jpg:orig

AF looks aite in that pic.

The other pics are not good for judging the AF imo.

 

[deoee]

AF looks aite in that pic.

The other pics are not good for judging the AF imo.

Here's two more that should suit you better:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAoR7dFW4AA2Fo0.jpg:orig
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAtCXmVWsAAb4Go.jpg:orig

Can take more later :3

 

[Lutherian]

Here's two more that should suit you better:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAoR7dFW4AA2Fo0.jpg:orig
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAtCXmVWsAAb4Go.jpg:orig

Can take more later :3

So, to paraphrase Mr McDuck : there's no end to this madness ! ^^.

The game looks good to me. Reminds me of the strange screen effect in Tales of Symphonia on GameCube.

EDIT :
Oh and thanks for the screens .

 

[deoee]

So, to paraphrase Mr McDuck : there's no end to this madness ! ^^.

The game looks good to me. Reminds me of the strange screen effect in Tales of Symphonia on GameCube.

EDIT :
Oh and thanks for the screens .

It looks superb in movement!
The screens do not show the fidelity that well,

 

[Cyborg]

Those screens looks amazing!

 

[deoee]

Those screens looks amazing!

Especially here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAvFW3fWsAAhImX.jpg:orig

I was just standing there for like 5 minutes and watching everything. So cool <3

 

[missile]

... CA is a visual defect of camera lenses ...

Considering it as a defect sounds so negative. Basically, it's not a defect
at all, its driven by the laws of nature. There is no perfect lens. As a side
note; we even experience chromatic aberration effects in an electromagnetic
lens (electron optics) despite there is no light at all.

... I fail to understand any objective purpose or anything of value CA adds to 3D Rendering. It certainly doesn't look realistic. ...

I think we first should agree that no game is realistic to begin with. If you
consider games to be realistic you will always fall in this trap of yours.
Secondly, one needs to understand that visuals in games are not supposed to
match reality. The primary artistic focus lies on building graphics which
fits a given/intended aesthetic to convey a given atmosphere. This may result
in using techniques which do not find any counterpart in the real world or
only to a very less extend. It's not about reality, it's about whether the
graphics fits the aesthetic/atmosphere the game should convey. However, it may
happen that some of those effects may perhaps be too pronounced, which is the
job of the Quality Assurance (QA) to find out. So you may find CA in games
where there is no lens at all, which is complete legit from an artistic point
of view. You have to respect the visual art of the game if the artist and the
QA team agrees upon the given effects serving the atmosphere of the game. Not
everybody likes Picasso's line-drawings. In that case just pass on and let
others enjoy being exposed to such art/graphics.

Well, I agree with you that many of the effect are overused now and then like
lense flares and bloom back in the days. However, putting such effect at the
right place may add to the atmosphere no matter whether if the game was
supposed to be realistic or not. Being realistic is almost always not the
point in making video games (even if it looks so from the outside). It's not.
It's about creating a believable (not supposed realistic) aesthetic which
conveys the intend of the creator(s).

Look at the game Ghost Song (in the making) by one of our follow indie game
developers (i.e. Jobbs) over here at gaf;

This game uses some heavy CA in some places. So where is the lens? There is
non. And it's not needed. It's the choice of the artist using whatever fits
his/her vision. And if anyone doesn't like it, we will come full circle with
Picasso again.

... Just the same as any sane individual would want RGB out of a retro console rather than composite with all of it's rainbow artifacts and fringing. ...

Many of the modern video effect filters utilized for professional video
reproduction for movies (simulating video within the movie) are in need of
such effects. Sure 'a sane individual' would want RGB out, but this doesn't
say that such effects are of no use esp. not when being considered for
artistic work. A modern video game may use such effects at some places because
the artist may want to mimic sort of an old/analog video effect or want to
use it solely to make his/her style a bit different for conveying his/her
vision much better. There nothing wrong doing so. And yet some people won't
like such effects solely because they think it not realistic. I think those
people will miss the point entirely.

I'm all for realistic rendering whatsoever. But graphics for video games are
mainly artistically driven and not by reality (even if it looks so from the
outside). You say the effects (in this case CA with respect to the game in
question) is not realistic, but show me one artist who said that this or that
effect was supposed to be a realistic one. You will get a pretty different
answer why such effects where used at all.

I think it's useless to tell an artist what (s)he should use or not to draw
his/her graphics. I don't want that. I want to play and experience the game
like the artist has intended me to do. I want to see his/her vision, not my
one. Well, this doesn't mean I would like all styles, no, but I will respect
the artist for his/her vision even if it's not my game.

If you are interested, then head over to the old indie game dev thread here at
gaf. There was a strong discussion about using CA or not. If you follow along
the lines, you will see how a more technical person looks at CA and how an
artist (Jobbs) looks at CA.

 

[RexNovis]

Yeah, because it doesn't look like that in motion either. /Sarcasm. Because it does. And excuse me for criticizing the quality of AF and other aspects in a thread trying to figure out why the PS4 often has lower quality AF than the XBO and low quality AF in general. (The # games that have HQ AF are much lower than those that don't. GoW3 Remastered screenshots shown don't have 16xAF either for example)

But also,if you recall, I never once said I didn't like BB. I never said it didn't have any merits either. I never said it should never exist. I never even said it should have a PC version. I also never once said it was "Unacceptable" I only mentioned objectively that the IQ is mediocre. Which is true. Especially compared to the screenshots they release of it themselves. And I also only mentioned that games with obviously such a huge amount of hard work put into creating a beautiful world deserve better than the shitty IQ that it is given.

Now who is only seeing negative?

It's like you kids are seeing red at the mention of objective criticism of something you like.

Let's go over the timeline of events that have led up to this moment:

1. You post an outrageously hyperbolic and consequently irrelevant post after another member posts a screenshot showcasing the existence of AF in Bloodborne in response to a post from another member.
   
   
2. You call members who dare to respond to said post "apologists" and dismiss their comments as being the product of ignorance/bias
   
   
3. You ask other members who state that they think Bloodborne looks great "surely your standards aren't that low?" insinuating that anyone who likes the look as it is just has low standards and therefore asserting your view as the only correct one.
   
   
4. When members respond to the needlessly confrontational posts telling you to relax, calm down you post a rant using every possible font type (because presumably all caps isn't enough to convey your righteous indignation) and in so doing call them "kids" while attacking semantics within their posts in order to further assert your own superiority.
   
   
5. Members react with incredulity at the hostility/absurdity of your posts causing you to go back and edit certain posts over 15 minutes after initially posting them in order to add less unreasonable statements in order to appear less like a raging lunatic.
   

So tell me again who is behaving like a child again?


Just to clarify for you what people are actually saying because you seem to be completely misunderstanding: nobody is saying the image quality is perfect we are saying it has some AF (because it factually does), to us it looks good, and that your concerns are vastly overstated making you seem either absurd or petty.

 

[Majanew]

Actually the AA seems decent, it's the chromatic aberration that looks awful. Hope it gets patched to be optional down in the future.

The AA might look decent in screens, but every gameplay video I've seen there's this nasty aliasing/shimmering all over the environment. I hope it's been cleaned up in the final build. Or there's a day 1 patch fixing it.

 

[GRaider81]

The AA might look decent in screens, but every gameplay video I've seen there's this nasty aliasing/shimmering all over the environment. I hope it's been cleaned up in the final build. Or there's a day 1 patch fixing it.

Lots of streams at the moment and I haven't really noticed that. Though to be fair the quality of the streams might not be the best to judge.

 

[Subaru]

I'm dying to play Bloodborne and I've already pre-ordered. But man, if these images are a good parameter, this game is ugly. Bad, bad IQ.

 

[Majanew]

Lots of streams at the moment and I haven't really noticed that. Though to be fair the quality of the streams might not be the best to judge.

I'll find out tomorrow since the game will be in Redbox.

 

[drotahorror]

That actually looks sick. Gives it sort of a retro, scan line-y type feel.

 

[missile]

That actually looks sick. Gives it sort of a retro, scan line-y type feel.

I want to give an another example. Jobbs likes to have some bending fog in his
game, i.e.;



The bands are not a compression artifact, they are done on purpose. Others may
now argue that this isn't realistic. Why do we have to see the bands if we can
make them continuous/smooth? Because for artistic reasons! And as one can see,
they fit the game quite nicely.

 

[drotahorror]

I can dig it.

 

[Slaythe]

The game might look good in movement.

But hell, this is flat out atrocious on that screen.