sublimit
Banned
If it's real then they deserve the damage they will be getting.
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Kotaku: Sony is working on a PS4.5; briefing devs on plans for a more powerful PS4
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
If it's real then they deserve the damage they will be getting.
If Sony ONLY changes old APU for the new one made in 16nm, why would that make console more expensive? They could continue selling PS4K with current PS4 prices [or a slight premium during first year if they want better proffits or yields are not as smooth as on 28nm].
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
I don't think people should be worrying about being stuck in a permanent "cross-gen phase".
The reason cross gen was painful when the PS4/Xbox One is because the new consoles were running ports of games designed for seven year hold hardware, which couldn't possibly run most of the advances of current rendering technology.
With shorter gaps between hardware refreshes, both SKUs will still be able to run most of the core technology, just at different levels of fidelity. For example, just because a PC game can run on a GPU from three years ago (or more) doesn't stop it from looking astonishing on higher end cards.
The reason cross gen was painful when the PS4/Xbox One is because the new consoles were running ports of games designed for seven year hold hardware, which couldn't possibly run most of the advances of current rendering technology.
With shorter gaps between hardware refreshes, both SKUs will still be able to run most of the core technology, just at different levels of fidelity. For example, just because a PC game can run on a GPU from three years ago (or more) doesn't stop it from looking astonishing on higher end cards.
autoduelist
Member
Except it's not that simple. Each of those skus will need to be optimized for, because unlike with PCs the vast majority of console users have absolutely zero desire to fiddle with settings. So now you're creating more work for the devs, and inevitably people with the 'older' system will complain when it's not optimized well for their machine and people with the 'newer' system will complain that having to design with the older system in mind is holding their games back.
It's an awful, awful path for consoles to go down. Here's hoping it's unsubstantiated rumor. Sony can't be that dumb. It's thumbing their nose at their core consumer. I don't believe it.
amstradcpc
Member
With HBM1 it´s 128GBytes/second per stack. With 4 stacks you have 128*4(4 is the limit of stacks with HBM1) = 512 GB/s.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
The rumour is that it'll be announced at E3 so if true we'll know in 3 months.
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
You may have a point, but most games that have a PC version (other than the most barebones ports) are shipping with multiple asset levels to accommodate different specs, which is where most of the work would come in. Plus, mobile developers can deal with this situation fine, so it wouldn't be unprecedented for a studio to be able to handle this.
I'd have to hear from developers to understand how they feel about this, but obviously none will be able to comment.
Can you define being "done with it". When can you be "done" with a gaming PC?
Also:MarkMclovin
Member
If this is true, I'm out.
Already started to build a Micro ITX PC anyway to build a virtual environment to practice on, I'll chuck in a decent graphics card in there and I'm set for PC gaming from now on.
Already started to build a Micro ITX PC anyway to build a virtual environment to practice on, I'll chuck in a decent graphics card in there and I'm set for PC gaming from now on.
It's literally two sets of settings on two fixed variations of the same platform. It will be fine.
autoduelist
Member
I only bring up the development issues because your assessment minimized them. The bigger issue, by far, is that a great number of console owners want none of this [including myself]. I buy consoles so I don't have to think about it for 5-10 years. I can pick up the latest game and know I'm playing a great version of it. It doesn't matter to me if PC users have computers far more powerful than mine, because I know I have the latest and greatest console, even if it's 5 years old.
Most people don't even buy into a console generation until 3-5 years into the lifespan, and they, too, want to feel like they got top of the line. Burning this majority will hurt consoles, not help them.
And let's not even get into potential issues in MP games.
It's such a terrible idea on Sony's part I can only assume this is nonsense on Kotaku's part.
I know exactly what it is and have developed software for multiple systems before. It's a terrible idea for consoles. It effectively defeats the purpose of consoles for many people. It's clear some people don't 'get' what others want from consoles, but that doesn't change it.
That's a ridiculous way to view the situation, seeing PS3 going away now. Supporting PS4.5 and PS4 is a lot easier than supporting PS4 and PS3 which have vastly different architectures, right?
Just look at Apple and their PC line with a few models, it works.
Caayn
Member
Whoops. For some reason I had HBM1 = 512Gbits in mind instead of bytes. My bad.
But you are just saying is exactly making the obvious stand out: that neither version will have its hardware 100% optimized. Just like PC, we all know that if a dev spends time optimizing his game for a specific set of hardware parts, the results will be vastly superior to what they get today.
In PS4's example, we will indeed be in a cross gen phase constantly, since PS4k will not exploit its full potential due to games being developed with normal PS4 hardware in mind and then upgraded with few extra bells and whistles, and at the same time normal PS4 games will have technical issues since devs wont spend a ton of time optimizing when they know they will have a "definitive" version of their product on the shelf.
The whole idea of people choosing to game on consoles is because they dont want to deal with hardware upgrades etc etc. If they go down this path, then fuck it, better to build a PC instead.
Oh, there has been: Cell and Xenon. Just not top notch x86.
PC becomes much more attractive if frequent hardware refreshes become a thing in consoles. If the upgrades are more frequent like PC, why not just go PC and nab all the benefits it offers instead?
Jaguar cores in PS4 can do more than was possible on Cell was powerful, but majority of time Cell-a power was used to do GRAPHIC work because PS3 GPU was not that great.
When porting TLOU/U1-3, all that cell graphic work is thrown back to GPU, leaving Jaguar cores free to work on their stuff. Sure, Jaguar cores are not that powerful in grand scheme of things, but they can do more than PS3 could.
And loose the benefits of console play? Ease of use, more polished software, affordable pricing, etc.
Can you define being "done with it". When can you be "done" with a gaming PC?
Sure, the whole idea of me prefering a console to game, is that i dont have to deal with upgrades and these things that drove me away from PC.
But, if consoles decide to go down that path, then I prefer building a gaming PC. The whole reason of me choosing a console will not be there anymore, so I may as well buy a gaming PC that will probably perform better than PS4k and will be easier to upgrade in the future.
wapplew
Member
That's my fear.
You either make things worse for low model or not using new model fully.
This is an incredibly asinine comment.
A three to four year console cycle with an iterative improvement and then a larger one etc will still be cheaper and easier for regular consumers than PC gaming ever will be. It still offers a far more concrete foundation for devs to build on..in the PC space as well as GPU, you also have CPU upgrades, memory upgrades, even bloody motherboard upgrades to fit the very latest of components not supported by your current one. A new console that plays the latest games for 8 years, with an iterative console half way through for some improved performance is a far less complex system for users and devs alike than PC gaming where you're constantly chasing the next thing that might improve some element of your setup.
LostDonkey
Member
That's not really fair. I have consoles and a gaming PC. I've only got the time, money and inclination to bother with upgrades and fragmentation on one platform.
You buy a console, plug and play.
If the consoles go this way as well, I won't be bothering. I like to upgrade and have the latest parts in my PC. I don't want to do that for consoles as well.
Marketing this as a version intended to get the most out of VR is probably the best way to get a pass from people.
A PlayStation 4 VR edition, perhaps.
What do you think wouldn't be plug and play about a PS4 with updated internals?
A PlayStation 4 VR edition, perhaps.
What do you think wouldn't be plug and play about a PS4 with updated internals?
How is that any different to how it is now with 3 home consoles available.?
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
I can understand how you feel and why a change in the status quo would upset you, but regular updates is how every other piece of technology you own works. My TV isn't the best in the market, and I'm fine with that. My PC isn't, and I'm fine with that. My phone isn't, and I'm fine with that. I weight up the costs vs benefits of each purchase and find a price to quality ratio that I'm comfortable with.
Consoles shouldn't be held back from advancing more rapidly just because that's how they've worked traditionally.
Now, saying all that, if this was every year I would consider that a little much. Every two years I could easily adapt to, especially as backwards compatibility would let me offset the cost by selling my old hardware - something I couldn't do from PS3 to PS4. I still have my PS3 plugged in to this day, but I'd be rid of that thing in a second if I could.
I'm speaking more positively about this than most because it's exactly what I've always wanted: the ease of consoles with the up to date hardware of PC. I'm too fussy for PC gaming and it doesn't suit living with two other gamers who want to share whatever primary platform we use.
Of course, this could all end up as a terrible misread of the market and crash spectacularly, but personally I hope this model is successful.
Upgrades will never be as frequent as the PC. New motherboards, new SSDs, new GPUs, new cooling solutions, new cases are always around the corner in PC. We are talking about closed boxes with fixed hardware released every 3-4 years to take advantage of new hardware at a reasonable price point while easily maintaining forward compatibility because they're using the same processor architecture.
Can't you just continue to buy one every 6-8 years without getting the iterations in between?
Exclusives, lack of driver updates/issues, better game support post launch, better and larger mp environment (and much less cheating), better and easier social interaction, easiness of use.
And also fuck win10 and m$ desire to force uwp integration.
Basically the only thing that stops me from going PC would be mid-cycle console hardware upgrade. And a 3-4 years console refresh would not be more frequent than on PC with new parts coming out every 1-2 years.
Spacecowboy77
Member
This sounds like a bad idea UNLESS, they offer some kind of upgrade plan, like 100$-150$ to trade in the old console.
Fair enough but I was responding to the people who seem to be only console gamers who are now threatening to go PC (that's how they paint it anyway). They're considering ditching a fixed platform with a paced out upgrade that is simple and across the board, for a system that has a million options and where there's never any fixed spec, and which taking part in tends to cost more than even this new console system will. If people can still use an iPhone 5 2/3 years later and still get access to pretty much all the same apps and games, but on newer phones you can get higher res and some better performance, then I don't see how a potential console platform functioning similarly will cause many people much issue. PC is a minefield in comparison to keep up with any notion of a fixed spec for any length of time.
I think it's an understandable move by Sony. Even if some people might be against it at the moment, in the grand scheme of things it makes sense for them to show people that there is a 'future" with PS hardware. They want to keep you locked into their eco-system and having a way to upgrade keeps people in their system.
I think it would make sense to price it more as a premium product, to differentiate it from the 4.0. This would also ease peoples minds who got a PS4 in the last few months.
My only gripe is still the push VR could get out of the new PS4. Only reason for me getting a PS4 recently was for VR (and UC4 but that could have waited).
But who knows if the "end of the year" thing is true anyway.
I think it would make sense to price it more as a premium product, to differentiate it from the 4.0. This would also ease peoples minds who got a PS4 in the last few months.
My only gripe is still the push VR could get out of the new PS4. Only reason for me getting a PS4 recently was for VR (and UC4 but that could have waited).
But who knows if the "end of the year" thing is true anyway.
SerTapTap
Member
Only ease of use remains. Buying a $400 system every 3 years is actually getting expensive compared to pc and polish goes out the window with multiple targets. See new 3ds and pc for examples.
This just sounds like a great way to piss off everyone who will already have aps4 when they preorder psvr this year. Which is probably like over 90% of pre-orders.
trudderham
Member
It'll probably be called the Playstation 4K, and I don't see what all the fuss is about. You'll still be playing the same games on the regular Playstation, with the same graphical fidelity, just not at 4K - which really doesn't matter if you still have a 720/1080p TV.
people can say what they want but I dont think we are even close of maxing out PS4/xbox1.
Some hardcore PC elitist guy might disagree, but the consoles continue to improve their visuals. Just look at U4 and Quantum break.
Sure PC is way ahead, but its not like console games look like complete shit like some extremist's opinion claims...
Some hardcore PC elitist guy might disagree, but the consoles continue to improve their visuals. Just look at U4 and Quantum break.
Sure PC is way ahead, but its not like console games look like complete shit like some extremist's opinion claims...
But, we will not need to get rid of launch PS4. Upgrade is not mandatory as long as same software is released for both.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
I think it'll work out fine. The devs can just ship the same game, with 2 different settings that the game will automatically choose to run depending on the type of ps4, and the consumers wouldnt need to touch the setting. The current environment seems to be more friendly at scaling for various hardwares now. There are various games that is compatible across the ps3/vita/ps4 and you dont see significant longer development time. Its the same for mobile too, and there's also a handful of games that perform differently depending on which 3DS you are using.
I can't see how that's worse than telling all existing PS4 owners, with designs on VR or not, that their current console is out of date.
Pre-built PCs are a thing. They may cost more, but they will last far longer than an iterative console model performance wise. Even a low-mid tier gaming PC outperforms consoles. Complexity is fast becoming a non-issue with the platform from a consumer standpoint. PC gaming has skyrocketed in recent years. Not to mention the biggest seller: it's a completely open platform. As consoles edge closer and closer to being PCs, going iterative just gives more incentive to make the jump.
Gaming on a PC has never been easier, and is very affordable. Games are cheaper on PC than on consoles. Online is always free. I'm not sure what you mean by more polished software. PC has very tangible advantages and consoles going to a more frequent refresh rate just means PC poses a better investment.
I just don't want to buy a PS4 now when this new model might be out soon, if that happens the current model will (I assume) suddenly go down in price, and the new version will be the better model to have going forward
So to buy now is to pay more for the standard PS4, if I wait I can either buy the PS4K or I can decide to get the standard one for cheaper
This rumour has stopped me from considering a PS4 until things are clearer, which they may well be after E3, but if this story is not true at all or if they're just preliminary plans for the PS5 then Sony needs to act now by making things clear
Yeah I've already advised friends to wait and see rather than to jump in for PSVR
I was going to wait till E3 anyway so hopefully things will be clearer by then
A good point. PC people are playing the same games console players are, but some with 4K or super high framerate. Still the same game. Same as the war between PS4 and Xbox One, we're all still playing Rocket League etc. So why does an improved PS4 that still plays all PS4 games cause so many people to take a hissy fit? PS4 games will all play on a PS4 branded system. One version might have more consistent framerate/resolution performance, and that will be it. We'll all still be playing the same games.
IF they end up with PS4K exclusive games in totality then sure. Even if that happens I can't imagine it being until the gen is almost over and the real PS5 is nearing readiness.
Why people keep saying that you need to upgrade your CPU constantly when 6 years old i7 still trash over PS4 CPUs? Even the new CPUs aren that big of an improvement compared to old Sandy Bridge.
IF you buy a decent CPU you're not gonna need to upgrade it for a lot of years.
RAM is cheap, you get 8GB for 40euros. At that point it all boils down to GPU and a GTX970 is cheaper and better than anything a PS4K can get.
One thing is always wanting to max a game on PC, but if you only need to play with better settings that its console counterpart, you don't need to spend much. It's cheaper than upgrading consoles at this point.
IF you buy a decent CPU you're not gonna need to upgrade it for a lot of years.
RAM is cheap, you get 8GB for 40euros. At that point it all boils down to GPU and a GTX970 is cheaper and better than anything a PS4K can get.
One thing is always wanting to max a game on PC, but if you only need to play with better settings that its console counterpart, you don't need to spend much. It's cheaper than upgrading consoles at this point.
ZehDon
Member
So, fracturing the install base, pissing off the early adopters, to deliver a huge, expensive hardware revision... that developers are not allowed to take advantage of? What?
That is not what I am saying. Like in one of my previous posts, having 2 different versions of console games, completely negates the whole idea of console hardware optimized gaming.
Consoloes will basically evolve completely into PC gaming. We will have different versions which will pretty much ensure that neither version is 100% optimized, so in a sense we will essentially be constantly in a "cross-gen" phase.
wapplew
Member
This goes both way. If they make PS4K exclusive, they pissed off PS4 owner. If they don't do exclusive, adoption rate won't be as good as PS4 launch.
Further more, if they continue the forward compatible into PS5 and future model, we will be playing same games just better, forever.
LostDonkey
Member
Ah I got ya
dodgykebaab
Banned
Guys, ps4.5 /ps4k is not true and is totally made up by kotaku to generate clicks.
Now Hulk Hogan has pretty much killed gawker and all its sites, they need to earn as much money as quick as they can.
This story is an ad revenue cash grab from Kotaku, and should not be taken seriously.
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Also expect more cash grab story's in the new few weeks from ALL gawker sites.
Now Hulk Hogan has pretty much killed gawker and all its sites, they need to earn as much money as quick as they can.
This story is an ad revenue cash grab from Kotaku, and should not be taken seriously.
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Also expect more cash grab story's in the new few weeks from ALL gawker sites.