blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
I hope this is not a Q1 2017 release because if it's so then Sony have got a potential issue they miss customers that hang out for Scorpio.
Is it unreasonable to think that Scorpio will be $599 when compared to these Neo specs? (assuming Neo launches at $499)
You have to keep in mind that the first customers Sony is trying to keep are those who spent 399$ three years ago for PS4.
So basically 399+ 399= 798 $ in three years
And if you add PSVR another 399$ is required
You seem to be one of few people that get this. The leaked specs at that price goes against everything House said about being a premium product for the hardcore. It becomes absolutely laughable to believe those specs would give any one a second thought about jumping to PC.
Sony already has me in line for Neo just because I want to play the exclusives in the best way possible. But if those leaked specs are true PC is going to start getting a big chunk of my mulitplat spending.
Just rumors....
If they stick with a overcloked Jaguar CPU:
CPU: 133 GFLOPS | GPU: 4.23 TFLOPS
Combined: 4.36 TFLOPS
Yeah this false.
Unfortunately that was not clarified (which has lead to some rampant speculation), but it's the most logic assumption based on the information he provided a while back.
Why, house said he wanted an enthusiast ps4 to encourage some not to switch to PC gaming.
Most PC gamers demand 60 FPS and scoff at us console peasants.
Neo at US 399 is not going to do that is it ? The Giant Bomb / DF leaked specs are too weak. So whats the point of Neo ?
Could be why I am getting my nickers in a twist.
If Neo is zen light / a CPU major upgrade over the leaked specs then its day 1, 2 please even at $ 499. because that would be good value.
How so?
Who are the PS4 customers that are obsessed with performance and graphics?
The early adopters, basically NeoGaf....
It really doesn't matter what they put in the box, they're not stopping anyone from moving to PC with specs alone.
Like you said. They have the larger Indie and Japanese developer support. Not only that but in some third party games like Destiny, they are getting exclusive content. Then there's PS VR games. They overall have a larger portfolio of content that's diverse. Whether or not that appeals to you is a different story like I mentioned earlier.
My point about Xbox and PS2 is that simply being a more powerful console is not enough to sway most consumers. Scorpio will cost more than Neo. No doubt about that. If Neo comes out this year, then by the time Scorpio launches Sony can undercut them by $100. A cheaper price and a more diverse library vs a higher price and getting to play some third party games that look better. At least for me, MS needs to do more to create value than boasting system specs.
I honestly think that based off the reactions to the leaks and the people that are willing to buy a device like this there may be a pivot away from a 4k emphasis and moving to 60fps. It makes perfect sense for the people they're aiming for and would require less work from devs than creating all new assets and effects for purely higher resolution/effects. Even at 4.2tf, there's plenty of room for visual refinements and 60fps. It would also make sure that the standard PS4 still gets attractive and playable 30fps titles.
I honestly think that based off the reactions to the leaks and the people that are willing to buy a device like this there may be a pivot away from a 4k emphasis and moving to 60fps. It makes perfect sense for the people they're aiming for and would require less work from devs than creating all new assets and effects for purely higher resolution/effects. Even at 4.2tf, there's plenty of room for visual refinements and 60fps. It would also make sure that the standard PS4 still gets attractive and playable 30fps titles.
How so?
Who are the PS4 customers that are obsessed with performance and graphics?
The early adopters, basically NeoGaf....
I would happy if Neo could push just about every game to run at 1080p/60fps with moderately improved visual quality. Don't care about 4K at all right now, especially considering it would likely be up-scaled 4K with poor framerates. I'm not really too concerned with the TF number. I just don't believe an overclocked Jaguar is going to push games to 60fps.
The Giant Bomb / DF leaked specs are too weak. So whats the point of Neo ?
We have strong leaks from several online publications [not random forum leakers] that Neo will have nicely overclocked Jaguar [which is fine, most games are GPU bound anyway]. We don't know final Sony plans of course.
As for Scorpio, MS has said that it has 8 cores. Those could be Zen cores with 16 threads [low power netbook/laptop variant, it will NOT be a full 70+W desktop part], or 8 plain old or upgraded Jaguar cores [Carrizo?].
The people that are obsessed with performance and graphics don't want this thing to have another fucking Jaguar in it!
It really doesn't matter what they put in the box, they're not stopping anyone from moving to PC with specs alone.
Yes the Neo and Scorpio are balanced GPU to Memory. I was not arguing that.
I am saying the Jaguar is a joke and will be a bottle neck to better frame rates.
You are saying no comment or nobody will bother anyway. So we agree?
As an early adopter of the PS4, I was more interested in bang for buck, personally. Anyone that's truly obsessed with performance and graphics doesn't seem able to tolerate console hardware lifecycles, even if they are shortened a bit to 4 years.How so?
Who are the PS4 customers that are obsessed with performance and graphics?
The early adopters, basically NeoGaf....
Holy smokes, now we have a group of people who try to sell the idea that Neo is too weak? While Scorpio will be running games at 4k/60fps?
Difference will be mostly 4.2TF vs 6TF with adjusted speeds of Ram. So ~35% in GPU power in favor of Scorpio.
So if we say that Neo is too weak, then so is Scorpio. Also what if Scorpio ended up using Jaguar for compatibility sake, would it still be this mighty powerhouse in your opinion?
Why exactly does it need to be $399? That is not a premium product price aimed at the hardcore as House described.
As an early adopter of the PS4, I was more interested in bang for buck, personally. Anyone that's truly obsessed with performance and graphics doesn't seem able to tolerate console hardware lifecycles, even if they are shortened a bit to 4 years.
NeoGAF in general are enthusiast gamers who will always buy new gaming paraphernalia because it's new, not much other prompting needed.
Go start a new thread, ask again.... What you will often rarely here is some wants 4K30 please, or 1080p30 with better shadows. Thats for sure !
True, but we still don't know if it actually does....
Anyway, regardless of the CPU, 499$ for a MID-gen upgrade is just too much
It still is a premium PS4. US$ 399 is a very adequate price for the rumored specs.
It needs to be US$ 399, with the vanilla PS4 dropping to US$ 299.
Why is it too much? If you sell your OG PS4(for around $200) your probably looking at paying $299 for it and this only for people that are looking to upgrade. If you haven't jumped into this generation yet then you are probably very price sensitive and will go with now likely cheaper OG PS4 regardless.
It would helpful if we knew what kind of sales they are projecting for Neo. If the expectations are low like they are for PSVR then I don't think a higher price point matters that much.
Yeah this is false. What exactly will a $399 PS4 Neo keep existing PS4 owners from doing? This is not a replacement for the OG PS4. I expect the Neo get may 15 to 20 percent of the sales at most, probably lower. And Sony doesn't care which one you buy as long as you stay in the PlayStation ecosystem.
If Sony wants to stay ahead for the rest of this gen, the also need to release PS4K this fall or year end. I can't see regular PS4 stay at 300+ for much longer or Xbone S will start gaining big time this holiday season. 399 PS4K and 299 PS4 is exactly what Sony need to stay winning. The rumor specs are close to the final product that shouldn't prevent them to hit that price point but I can see they pull a 1TB model or game bundle only for 449 to make decent profit off early adopters and release a 500g sku on a later date. Coming out at 399 also make MS second guess their 6TF machine is worth it because they have to make the assumption that when they launch the scorpio they could be facing a 350 PS4K by next fall. If they want the want the Scorpio to reach the mass market they have to price it competitively too, or it'll just become a niche prodcut.
Yeah also no one is spending 399+399 when you can sell your used console for $200. It's a small upgrade fee for double the power. Seems totally fair and easily attainable for those that care. This is aimed at people like me with $1,000 receivers and $4,000 TVs.
On that part yes, but it certainly does not address Sony's purported desire use Neo as a way to stall migration to PC. It just pushes me faster. I had planned to build a PC this Fall, but when the news about Neo starting leaking I thought maybe I would hold off for a while longer. If what we have seen for is actually the final product it has failed spectacularly at that goal.
Sony could delay this thing to Fall 2017 and Xbox would still behind by at least 30 million units by then. Losing this generation is not even a concern at this point.
Sony could delay this thing to Fall 2017 and Xbox would still behind by at least 30 million units by then. Losing this generation is not even a concern at this point.
They are not delaying PS4 Neo a full year, that's for sure....
it is, what happen close to the end of the console life cycle is very important, people look at PS3 as succeful console last gen, imagine the PS3 has died like a 3DO or atari jaguar, thing would have been to disaster for PS4. The momemtum carry from last gen matters a lot.
I get what you are saying, but there have been some examples where the slightly higher clocked cpu in xbone has shown to giver better fps in cpu intensive areas in games. For example, I think both AC: Unity and AC: syndicate had better fps on xbone in cpu limited areas. I am sure there are mor examples but I don'y exactly write them down when I come across them.
Point is, you two are trying to make some stupid argument about cpu or gpu increasing framerate when both do and it entirely depends on what the game in question is doing.
I know that. Just saying nothing in the works for either company is going alter the way this generation is going.
Momentum looks pretty good for PS4 to me. They certainly seem to have the better game lineup going forward which is what helped the PS3 excel and build momentum later in the generation.
Leaving the spec argument aside for a minute..... What features, if any, could Neo bring that could help sell it or at least make paper specs less of a "problem"?
No, one of use realises GPU can be used to improve FPS and the other doesn't and is poo-pooing the Neo to be forever crippled with 30FPS and 'no better looking, maybe just extra AA' which is ridiculous.
Big gamble to release Neo and PSVR during the same window in my opinion.
Surely the market for people who can afford both is tiny, which would force the purchase of one or the other no?
No matter the GPU without a CPU upgrade it's not worth it.
Zen will launch later this year, they need to fold that into the ecosystem.
Big gamble to release Neo and PSVR during the same window in my opinion.
Surely the market for people who can afford both is tiny, which would force the purchase of one or the other no?
Ps4 players mainly have 1080p30 now on most games compared to our PC overlords..What do you reckon would be THE most asked for upgrade. Go on, have a wild guess !
We have 3 Ps4 in the house, PSVR ordered, 2 PSN + subs and buy 40 games a year. I think the Jaguar is that shit that I will trade it all and go Scorpio. I am not gaming at 30 FPS for another 3-4 years, period.
If Scorpio has Jaguar I will go PC.
They don't have to do that by any means. Only people saying its not worth it are looking at Scorpio and not the games currently being released
The main thing that holds back a game like Fallout from higher render updates is antiquated software stack, not hardware.geordiemp said:No way is jaguar running taxing games like Fallout 4 at 90 FPS .....
The people that are obsessed with performance and graphics don't want this thing to have another fucking Jaguar in it!