Support NeoGAF

[Chezzymann]

Use the power for better graphics, bigger levels, better sounds, lighting, textures , AI 1080p 60fps

Halo 6

Like starry night

And I will be more than happy

Yeah really. Unless you have a large TV or sit close to a smaller one 4k isn't worth it. 1080p is good enough, focus on better graphics and framerate

 

[Detective]

Couldn't agree more

Erection levels rising....

Yeah really. Unless you have a large TV or sit close to a smaller one 4k isn't worth it. 1080p is good enough, focus on better graphics and framerate

I know right!

Just imagine Halo 6. With graphics and levels like never seen before. I would pay lots of money for that

 

[Cday]

4K is a marketing buzzword this close after 1080p just went from rare to common. They're selling you 4K and all you'll get is upscaling.

 

[Pop]

Majority of games won't be native 4K anyway, impossible. Well maybe besides the occasional indie title.

 

[Ivan]

Totally agree, we need smart upscaling on consoles, native 4k is too demanding.

I'd take next gen looks and higher frame rate over resolution any time of the day.

 

[SapientWolf]

One important thing that screenshots don't show is the huge increase in motion stability. Having way less pixel shimmering with movement is a big deal and adds to an overall sharp and clean looking IQ.



4K textures isn't a thing, unless you're literally saying every texture has a 4K resolution which is silly.

"Textures with a pixel density that's appropriate for a 4k resolution."

The Scorpio might end up with the same problem as high end PCs. Ports are essentially the same but with better IQ. How many people have to own the thing before it's worth dumping a ton of money into graphical upgrades? The base spec is still an XB1.

 

[SystemUser]

It kind of sucks that we're stuck with either 1080 or 4k for consoles. I definitely want higher then 1080 at this point, but 4k is too big a jump

I don't think we are stuck. Lots of Xbox 360 games ran at resolutions under 720. Currently there are plenty of Xbox One games that are not 1080p or 720p. The Scorpio could run games at a resolution between 1080 and 4k, but 1080 to 4k is supposed to be a sweet spot for scaling. I am fine with game makers staying at 1080p until they can make 1080p graphics that look like a hollywood blockbuster movie on bluray. There is still so much image quality that can be gained at 1080p before going up to 4k. Why waste the horsepower on raw resolution when it can be used to up IQ?

 

[Hypron]

Majority of games won't be native 4K anyway, impossible. Well maybe besides the occasional indie title.

I didn't think about that. 2D games (and less demanding 3D ones) will look so sharp in native 4K.

 

[TheRealJakoozie]

I never really saw the point of 4k. People get super excited when they play at 4k on PC's but I don't really think there are much gainings from 1080p, and the power needed for 4k is just stupid. Better spend that on better graphics and IQ.

Have you tried gaming in native 4K? It's glorious, and definitely makes a large difference.

Still, as others have pointed out, the computing power can be put to better use in other ways. But 4K is definitely nice.

 

[tuxfool]

you are increasing total gpu workload almost 4 fold for that difference

Of course. I'm merely pointing out that even with assets designed for 1080p, at 4K they resolve with a lot more detail.

 

[SuperSah]

Rather better graphics at 1080p than 4K.

No intention to go 4K for a long time.

 

[Vipu]

Have you tried gaming in native 4K? It's glorious, and definitely makes a large difference.

Still, as others have pointed out, the computing power can be put to better use in other ways. But 4K is definitely nice.

It might be nice but not as nice as very high fps nice.

 

[Ducktail]

Not to mention emerging markets, like mine, Brazil. We've been consuming more and more video-games since the grey market has pretty much ended and a 4K TV is prohibitively expensive and almost nobody has it, save for enthusiasts and rich people in general.

So, yes- I don't think focusing solely on 4k is a great idea.

 

[jim2point0]

I get what you're saying but it really isn't the same. Standards don't always go by the vertical resolution.

You mean this standard?

"2K" and "4K" refer to the horizontal pixels. 2K would be roughly 2000 pixels. The 16:9 standard for 2K is 1920x1080. Double each dimension and you get 4K (3840x2160).

I do not understand where calling 2560x1440 "2K" came from... but it's silly. That's like calling 3440x1440 "3K." Which is equally silly.\\

He's entitled to his opinion.

Doesn't mean he's right.

I'm feeling like people saying 1080p is enough or diminishing returns have never gamed at 4k. The difference is astonishing.

I agree. And I think there are limits to how much detail you can get at 1920x1080. Subpixel, shader, and specular aliasing are rampant at lower resolutions and I don't think you can fix those with normal AA methods without causing a ton of blur.

I dont't think you can get IQ like this at 1080p with any form of AA and still maintain this level of sharpness.

Thing is, I believe people are saying to avoid 4K with these new consoles simply because they won't be powerful enough to run it without drastically lowering settings. So the conclusion is to focus on the grapics instead of resolution. As a PC Gamer, I'm inclined to agree with that approach as I would benefit form the better graphics while also being able to push whatever resolution I can afford. Win win.

 

[Demoskinos]

He's not wrong.

This. Most games can't even hit 60fps still on consoles. Let's get to 1080p/60fps and then we can worry about bumping stuff up from there.

 

[J-Rzez]

Well, the console lines up with the tvs most people are shifting towards, and we know how TV makers have basically left 1080 FHD tvs to die at this point. So its smart for MS to make a console that matches up to the tv the consumers are buying. 4K tv sales are steady, and that's not even come next year where FHD sets will be only found in kitchen sized sets and maybe 40-50".

4K is the future, if people like it or not, and the masses just know the 4k/uhd hype.

 

[Smokey]

But the differences in the quality of the visuals will be even greater. The graphical sacrifices that will be made will not be worth the improvement in IQ.

Possibly. I dunno if we'll get true 4k rendering or something along the lines of reconstructing, but either way I'm for the push. It's similar to 1080p vs 720p argument back in the day. Sure they may be a "bit" early on the tech front, but go for it. I rather them do this then put out the type of shit box they did with the Xbox One.

I think he's suggesting that 4K makes a difference in front of a computer, but the difference between 1080P and 4K isn't quite as profound when viewing things at a distance via TV/couch. But then again, the same arguments were made when talking about 720P vs 1080P...

I actually have a 4K television set, and never thought to test my PC on it for 4K gaming since I already have a 4k monitor....

There is still a difference when viewing on a 4K TV. Native 4k content is noticeably and clearly superior to upscaled content. If we get native content, people will definitely notice.

That's not the reason people want games to stay at 1080p. The reason is because Scorpio, and even more so Neo, can't render at 4K with good fidelity. We are still far off from that on consoles.

Yeah but we can't do 1080p well enough on consoles to be thinking about 4k.

No, the Xbox One can't do 1080p well. PS4 handles it fine (relatively speaking).

This. Most games can't even hit 60fps still on consoles. Let's get to 1080p/60fps and then we can worry about bumping stuff up from there.

Frame rate will never be a priority over effects, unfortunately.

 

[Vipu]

4K is the future

You said it yourself, future.

 

[jim2point0]

Don't you need a huge 4K TV to see any difference? To be honest I don't see much different from 720p to 1080p on a 42 inch TV in my living room.

Absolutely not. See the screenshot I posted above. That was captured at a higher resolution and downsampled. Perfectly sharp image with absolutely no aliasing. Downside is that the higher clarity shines a spotlight on things like crappy distant LOD....

 

[Smokey]

You said it yourself, future.

It's the 1080p vs 720p argument all over again.

 

[OfTheOverflow]

Having not game'd in 4K yet, I'm very happy with the additional power of new consoles being pumped into ensuring 1080/60 is stable and there's some other nice improvements to graphical fidelity re: AA solutions.

 

[btrboyev]

Give me 4k 30fps. No game should run at 1080p on these consoles.

4k is not happening

 

[d00d3n]

How many here have actually gamed on 4K (UHD technically, but I'll use 4K moving forward) with power sufficient to play the game properly?

I have a Titan X and a dual screen setup with a 40" 4k display for web/media/work stuff and a 35" 2560x1080 display for games, both VA type. The extra clarity of the 4k is only notable if you are looking at still images imo. This has a minor impact on some type of games, mostly RPGs that contain a lot of text to read (which is a better experience on the 4k). Other than that, I have not had much use for the 4k display in gaming. It is great for checking neogaf, though!

 

[SDMG]

Are people really downplaying 4k am I really reading that 4k is not needed woooooow.

Its crazy MS has been getting their ass kick this whole gen when it comes to resolution pretty much laughed at.

MS say ok the XOS will upscale every game to 4k with HDR the dashboard will do 4k also, they also announce Scorpio which is shooting for native 4k and now all of sudden they are doing too much!!!

 

[AzaK]

In related news: Bear shits in woods

 

[Zuzzissm0]

i bet MS will release their own games in real 4k for the first year. but all other developers will not be so stupid and i hope some games like B1 will get a patch for 1080p and good graphics

 

[watership]

Are people really downplaying 4k am I really reading that 4k is not needed woooooow.

Its crazy MS has been getting their ass kick this whole gen when it comes to resolution pretty much laughed at.

MS say ok the XOS will upscale every game to 4k with HDR the dashboard will do 4k also, they also announce Scorpio which is shooting for native 4k and now all of sudden they are doing too much!!!

We need to find a new technical threshold that isn't being met to bitch about. This gen was resolution, when it should have been frame rate.

 

[Oblivion]

The jump from 480i to 720p/1080p was huge, but is there really an equivalent jump from 1080p to 4k?

 

[Self_Destructive]

The difference is huge imo.

That said, it completely depends on the concessions made to get to that resolution.. so it really comes down on a game by game/person by person basis imo.

In a lot of games, things will look better at 1080p with more geometry detail and effects running at a higher framerate..whereas in other games 4K will really let the clarity of the artwork and subtle details shine much brighter.

Of course, in many games the right thing to do will be to incorporate a dynamic frame-buffer what will vary between the two in the most seamless way possible while putting performance and control at the forefront.

It's simply nice that developers will have the option and hopefully the power to do what they wish. Hell, even allowing some degree of customization in the settings menu would be nice for people to choose either or at their discretion.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

He's not wrong.

.

 

[Ushay]

4k is not happening

By who's executive order is that so? There are many ways to achieve 4k, native isnt always the only or best solution.

 

[jet1911]

I know right!

Just imagine Halo 6. With graphics and levels like never seen before. I would pay lots of money for that

Too bad there won't be any exclusive games that really take advantage of the power of Scorpio/Neo

 

[shoreu]

I've seen 4k Gaming I'd take 1080p 60fps with my games at ultra though.

 

[Mechazawa]

We're gonna get 4K from Scorpio the way we got 1080p for the PS3. Outlier projects. Hardware just ain't there yet.

Spoiler

I'll take a new 4K Wipeout on Neo tho plz.

 

[Blantyre]

Too bad there won't be any exclusive games that really take advantage of the power of Scorpio/Neo

I don't think so.

 

[Omnii-chan]

How does 1440p look on a 4k display? Maybe 1440p would be better for the new consoles to chase than 4k?

If they chose 1440, they could have the games running on "high" at 60fps and hopefully still look great on 4k tv's.

Better yet, give console gamers an option; framerate/ graphical fidelity.

 

[Dubz]

I bought a 4K set recently so I would love to see some games at 4K.

Having said that, I would much prefer 1080p at 60 if 4K is going to be too much to ask for.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

My current tv can't even do 4k so I don't really care about it.

 

[Deleted member 325805]

Too bad there won't be any exclusive games that really take advantage of the power of Scorpio/Neo

If The Last of Us 2 runs at 60fps on Neo I'll upgrade from the PSPoor, TLoU was incredible and worth the console price on its own.

 

[CreepingFear]

4k is the future, but right now you can barely do 4k on high end PC's without lowering settings. I think high quality/high frame rate 1080p is ideal until 4k/high settings/high fps is doable on main stream GPUs. I would be more likely to buy a 1080p 60 fps console than a 4k 30 fps console. That's just my opinion.

 

[SOR5]

Are people really downplaying 4k am I really reading that 4k is not needed woooooow.

Its crazy MS has been getting their ass kick this whole gen when it comes to resolution pretty much laughed at.

MS say ok the XOS will upscale every game to 4k with HDR the dashboard will do 4k also, they also announce Scorpio which is shooting for native 4k and now all of sudden they are doing too much!!!

You now realise console warriors only talk up aspects that they can brag about the most

Getting into digital foundry dick measuring absolutely seeps the fun out of video games, just enjoy the game you want to play

 

[Silent Chief]

Well, he's not wrong, but the current plan is to keep making games that work on all Xbones.

 

[Gnome Scat]

Hopefully they have enough time to refocus on sharp 1080p.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

If they go for 4K, then PC will still be a better place to play because you can run at whatever resolution you want in order to get the performance you want. Instead of sub 1080 games with inconsistent 30fps performance we'll get 4K with similar performance

 

[TheExecutive]

I agree. Something something screen size to viewing distance etc...

 

[BokehKing]

Any statistics out there for how many average gamers (not us, but the other millions of people) actually own 4k TV's?

I don't have a 4k tv, don't need one yet
I'm getting this and neo because I'm hoping devs go that 1080/60 goodness.

Either way it's going to be exciting times for gamers who don't game on PC.

 

[AmyS]

Of course, 4X+ the GPU performance of Xbox One isn't enough to make native 4K the best use of its power.

Would Scorpio be able to do native 4K 2160p resolution? Absolutely.. But only with Xbox One level graphics, or a little bit better.

PS5 and the equivalent Xbox around the 2020 timeframe should both have enough CPU / GPU / RAM / Bandwidth to really push native 4K to the mainstream console gamer in next-gen AAA games.

 

[Detective]

Is it possible for the dev to make you choose settings on console? You know like PC?

 

[jellies_two]

I dont't think you can get IQ like this at 1080p with any form of AA and still maintain this level of sharpness.

I don't get it.
Why is it necessary to have a 4k *display* and a 4k *output buffer* if a 1080p display and output buffer can show this:

 

[jim2point0]

I don't get it.
Why is it necessary to have a 4k *display* and a 4k *output buffer* if a 1080p display and output buffer can show this:

That image doesn't have to worry about things like aliasing. Because it's a photo of real life and real life doesn't have aliasing.

Aliasing comes in all forms. Something you need to take into account is the fact that real life also doesn't need to worry about LOD\mipmaps\etc. All of those trees, houses, etc in the distance are still perfectly detailed. If that was a video game, those distant objects would all be very complex for something so small. And with their maximum resolution textures, you'd get some really nasty shimmering or "pixel crawl." And the methods to reduce that are very expensive on the GPU (unless you want a blurry image). So if you want that sharp image, you either downsample from a larger resolution, or simple display the larger resolution natively.