Ndp just changing how they report things? Any reason why?
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VentureBeat: Microsofts Xbox and gaming sales decline 9%
- Thread starter Rymuth
- Start date
Ndp just changing how they report things? Any reason why?
Welfare
Member
NPD love to restrict what the public knows.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Microsoft has by most positive accessments sold, 22-25 consoles world wide. Even if we assume the Xbox one is still going to sell regardless, we are looking at at best at 40-50 million install base by 2021 at this rate.
The attach rate is close to 8 games.
The 360 sold something in the region of 82-83 million with a 6 game attach rate.
Point blank period, do you think windows 10 is going to make up that big a drop in console revenue and attach rate?
The PC market is massive. The enthusiast PC market is not. Even the 970, the most popular card on steam only represents 3.57% of steam users on windows 10. This will grow with time, but it's going to be an incredibly slow burn.
Direct X12 games having such high system requirements are not helping matters in the slightest.
As for PC gamers who don't game on console, you have a hard time convincing me that PC gamers are queing up to buy games from a store where currently the games are more expensive, have serious performance issues at launch and restrict PC-centroc features like Modding, alt-tab and borderless windows. You can't claim in one sentence that the Win 10 store is a mature platform that can ofset the loss of another and in the other, acknowledge that it has a long way to be seen as competitive to its target market.
What?
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
The problem is Xbox is a hardcore brand. Anything that isn't in the AAA space does not benefit from the Xbox association and may as well just be branded Windows store.
It's not like Microsoft hasn't tried this before with Xbox fitness, Xbox music etc. We already know how far they got with that.
CrimsonEclipse
Member
This is just a forum discussion with some folks, until we start seeing more moves from MS to eliminate/dump the brand just enjoy it if suits you. Sure reading some stuff might cause you to think, but w/e. I'd be much more concerned if they weren't listening to feedback and trying to enhance the platform with updates and broaden the appeal as they have been.
Xenoflare
Member
Thanks, I know that ultimately it comes down to my enjoyment but I would be lying if I say that news like this isn't making me concerned
What drop are you talking about making up for? You have to learn do disassociate unit sales, from revenue, from profit. Though related, they are all completely different things.
Making a profit doesn't neccisarily mean selling as many consoles, or even selling as many games- it simply means Total revenues need to exceed total costs. With more opportunities to make money by increasing the potential consumer base through PC and mobile, as well as increasing service adoption, MS could certainly stand to make some money compared to last go round, especially, since the 360 hardware failure rate was very costly for them.
Regarding the state of the Win10 store, I already said it needs to be better if they intend to use it to prop up their gaming division. But we arent just talking about the current situation, we are talking about the next few years, where there will undoubtedly be improvements. We've been discussing how MS intends to operate in the game industry GOING FORWARD. I don't expect them to make any money today or tommorow. But there is a path to success they can take. By adding PC and mobile to the mix, MS has an opportunity to reduce their cost per consumer in the gaming space, while increasing the volume of sales.
Eh, that can be changed over time. At one point the Xbox name was heavily associated with casual-friendly things like Live Arcade, a Netflix app, and motion controlled games via Kinect. Now the Xbox team has Minecraft. Sea of Thieves looks pretty casual friendly. There's probably more variety in the works.
Right now if I go into the Windows Store and look at the Xbox games they're all branded Xbox Live and at the very top of the page it says "earn achievements, share game clips, and challenge your friends online." I think eventually Xbox will be known as the Windows gaming app and service.
That aligns to what Phil Spencer said in early 2015 about their intentions...
Phil Spencer said:
They've had hits and misses. None of it precludes them from trying again.
Lys Skygge
Member
Even with all this doom and gloom talk, it would be years before Microsoft actually left the console business. The Scorpio guarantees at least another 4-6 years of support, I'd assume. If Microsoft plans on exiting the console business, it would be a slow process.
If you meant sold-trough : 25 mil? Not a single chance. 22 million? Maybe.
CosmicQueso
Member
Well yeah, of course it would.
SneakersSO
Member
Sony kept the console exclusive for Shenmue 3 cause they are both assisting in funding it & have fully advertised it is development drive on their E3 stage.
Both Bayonetta 2 & SFV are different than the RotR situation because BOTH of those games were not in development prior to their respective partners coming in & funding those titles outright. RotR was already in development & was more than well funded when the deal for its exclusivity was struck.
Does this mean that a 3rd party publisher-funded multiplat for both SFV & Bayonetta 2 would've never happened? No, not necessarily. There is no guarantee they wouldn't or would have. In SFV's case, the game was funded years before Capcom was intending to pursue it, and who knows what form that game would've taken (mobile game). But 1st party came in & paid the development bill on those titles when their brand holders had no intention of doing so.
CosmicQueso
Member
They're adding a digital data component to the overall market spend number and to some (but not all) games to determine the top 10.
It's complicated. But, a few years ago NPD announced the formation of a "Digital Leader Panel" of publishers that agreed to share digital distribution data.
This release is the first time data from that self selected groups of publishers will be incorporated into the PR announce.
But there are many limitations and trade offs.
I wouldn't think about it tbh, For every person stating valid research, you're getting two more people with wishful concern trolling
Cue the shock and appalled response from someone that I dared to assert this
Microsoft are leaving the industry by announcing two consoles was my favourite meme last month
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Ah, thanks for the response.
Care to elaborate on some of the limitations or trade offs?
Sony did not "pay for" Shenmue III. Co-Producers Shibuya Productions are the major investor in the game, not Sony.
The deal between Sony and YSnet is not dissimilar to how they assist other indie developers getting their games onto the platform, but their support is needed irregardless of Kickstarter numbers, because they're offsetting costs that would otherwise eat into that KS money. You get what I'm saying, yeah?
Sony are only assisting so much as marketing and publishing the game on PS4, it isn't really comparable to No Man's Sky or Rise of the Tomb Raider. YSnet still reserve the right to release Shenmue III wherever they like too, judging from how they've never outright said an Xbox version will never happen.
Movalpolos
Banned
What about the 100 Million hours people put into playing backwards compatible games?
ethomaz
Banned
Only some 3rd-party publishers shares digital while none of 1st-party do.
They changed the ranking from units to revenue.
Dropped platform order.
The new public ranking is complete useless.
What does it say when your fan base is playing so many 360 games vs buying new xbox one games?
Primethius
Banned
They're doing both though.
Ha, yeah that was a good one. It's been the wet dream of forumgoers for years who think the super evil corporation shouldn't be allowed to make games or gaming hardware. It's not worth listening to this hyperbole now any more than it has been for the last 15 years.
dragonelite
Member
Thats like what 4~5 hours per console sold in periode of a year.
They played over a billion of hours of new X1 games in June alone. That 100 million hours was over 8 months. Puts in perspective how little BC it's actually used by majority.
Such wierd analysis surrounding BC. What do we think MS' expectations were? That BC Would overtake new games as the primary use of the console?
It's so weird, no matter what types of usage stats BC obtained, people would spin it as a negative...
Too much time spent = the new games aren't good enough
Too little time spent = the feature is useless
It makes no sense. Can't it just be good that people that want to carry their old catalog over to their new system have a means to?
It was to encourage people with extensive 360 libraries to get an XB1. Not to necessarily keep them playing those 360 games.
It was at 15 million hours early Jan so two months plus preview. So 85m hours in the past 6 month. Numbers are rising as more bigger games get added.
Honestly I think 100m hours is a lot considering the games available and the fact they're all older and bc wasn't added till 2 years in, when people had already amassed a library of next gen games and a lot of the bigger ones were already remastered
For me though bc is about playing new games I missed, not going back and playing old games I own. There's very few old games I'd want to replay.
Honestly I think 100m hours is a lot considering the games available and the fact they're all older and bc wasn't added till 2 years in, when people had already amassed a library of next gen games and a lot of the bigger ones were already remastered
For me though bc is about playing new games I missed, not going back and playing old games I own. There's very few old games I'd want to replay.
How did you come to this conclusion?
Diddy Kong
Banned
It would be really shitty of them to shut down a gaming company that's been in the industry well before Microsoft has. I'd like to believe they'd let them break off it anything were to happen.
Primethius
Banned
Pretty sure BC has been more then enough of a success for MS.
About the only people it disappointed are those that thought BC would help the XB1 vs PS4 sales wise.
About the only people it disappointed are those that thought BC would help the XB1 vs PS4 sales wise.
Of course their exit would be slow if they choose to, and I doubt they'll fully exit gaming so long as they can use it to further their ecosystem.
That said, anyone think MS isn't it s fairly tricky market position is fooling themselves. Their console position is contracting and on PC they are close to nowhere with respect to sales via their store for core games and their own published titles.
Steam owns PC core gaming with a number of others jostling behind them with MS way back in the field.
They have a lot to recover or alternatively a lot to adjust to a smaller market share to retain a foot in the door.
I just don't get why people think (or hope) that MS is leaving the console division. It makes zero sense. Just because revenue has declined 9% even though hardware sales also declined for the PS4 as well in June?
Even the rumours of that Surface phone are running strong recently and WP has made zero ground and is in decline.
They're whole business vision relies on the many different form factors of devices. A games console and owning the living room is a major part of that.
Even the rumours of that Surface phone are running strong recently and WP has made zero ground and is in decline.
They're whole business vision relies on the many different form factors of devices. A games console and owning the living room is a major part of that.
WW or NPD?
This was not a surprise once they stopped selling the 360. Not sure what the issue is here?
Referring to the June NPD, but is it safe to presume of a hardware decline WW with the anticipation of the updated consoles?
Sorry, not sure what your saying. I'm just a bit baffled how the conclusion of all this is that they're going to leave the console race.
What PS4 hardware sales ( NPD June ) has to do with MS's Q4 report for Xbone worldwide sales? PS4 is not Xbone WW, US is not = WW.
You didn't answer my question.
slavesnyder
Member
Revenue down is always bad. More interesting would be to know if there is profit made.
Mobile, tablet and smart tvs own the living room, not consoles.
MS might still have that vision, Xbox just might not be the right trojan horse any more.
Xbox console sale revenue was down 33%, thats a huge decline.
I answered you : PS4 is not Xbone WW and US is not = WW. And also new PS4 models aren't announced too.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
That they like to continue to play games that they own?
Not necessarily, lower prices and a cheaper manufacturing cost may actually gain them a higher margin which may alleviate a lower revenue.
One of the strongest electronic consumer brands may be a Trojan horse? It's still a profitable division which leverages more of their services, which have seen large spikes in revenue. If anything, the smaller devices like Fire Sticks are more of a threat.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Well, Capcom said no SFV until 2018 so it probably would have happened but it obviously would have taken a very long time.
So, I am assuming Sony said, "Hey, Cap, how about we give you assistance with this in order to considerably expedite launch. Make it exclusive in exchange?" and Cap replied, "Okay, sure. We'd just like to throw in a PC release too" and Sony said, "K.".
You answered the question like a politician. I knew all of these things when I wrote the post in the first place.
Come on, every one and their dog knows about these updated consoles. Neo has been officially acknowledged. Stop dancing around it.
I believe that hardware revenue is down 33% but overall gaming revenue down 9%. The hardware is understandable, as they've sold less in the US this year and at a lower price point (I think) too. I think this can be extrapolated to WW demand with Xbox, probably to a greater extent than the others. But revenue is supposed to be be high at this point due to licensing, subscriptions, micro transactions, they opened their new store on PC, etc. It was not high enough to offset the decline in hardware revenue and likely declined itself. They also released a major AAA title which they did not last year.
Whether or not Sony is down year over year to this extent (they won't be, even if just because of Uncharted alone) is irrelevant to the performance of Xbox when it was clearly thrown under the bus by Microsoft themselves as the cause for the decline.
Edit: everyone and their dog - on Neogaf - knows about the Neo. Most people don't even know what games will be out this fall if they're not FIFA or CoD.
Just acknowledged. Just that! No official release date, no price, console isn't showed. I don't see any reason that PS4 sales WW are slowed because Neo is just acknowledged
Thanks, put it well for me. I didn't think about PC and how the apps with microtransactions would be under the same banner. Considering the uptake of W10 as well, that is alarming.
They really hurt themselves with the X1 didn't they. I wonder if they make any more ground with the Scorpio.
I do think people on here underestimate how average gamers keep up to date with things. To say the majority of people not here or Reddit for example are not aware of the refreshed consoles, is quite a wrong assumption to make.