BadAss2961
Member
Yeah, we totally didn't talk about RT scores, rumors, and drop potential every step of the way.
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Suicide Squad's box office business plunges just like Batman v Superman's did
- Thread starter ArtHands
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BronsonLee
Member
If they said that after TFA's open they were fucking high on dust
*snort*
It was made into some kind of posters. It was so obnoxious that it's hard to forget. Trumpeting a win before it even happened and against a film (TFA) that back then already made crazy amount of profits.
freenudemacusers
Member
either way, it's really sad that filmmaking has become a competition for making the most money (aka dumping more marketing $ and design by focus group scripts) vs creating provocative, interesting art. it's hard to pursue, and eventually capture, the ideal if you're never willing to fail along the way. the dcu imo shows the importance of process in the development of an aesthetic, similar to matthew barney's work, something you don't really see elsewhere. it's really just not made for the typical filmgoing audience lacking in art education, so obviously the money won't be there.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
People say this a lot, but this really only affects the editing (and maybe some characterization) at most. The problem is that the plot and writing were awful (legit awful, I'm a person who has previously only ever seen one movie in theaters that I thought was irredeemable and that was Seventh Son, but this movie takes that title too).
It's on Ayer for some of this. And the writers. It's a bad film in almost every respect, if not every single respect.
Actually, they are both serving dogshit. One just tells jokes on the hamburger wrapper.
Really? I thought it wasn't very good, honestly.
Look at all the qualities that define the Joker.
He's fun, but Leto wasn't really having much fun. He just looked like a teenager rebelling against his father, which is amazing because Leto is 10 years older than Ledger ever got to be.
He's crazy, obviously, and has been played as crazy in both a scary way and a silly way. But either way, Leto's interpretation of this was just to make as many Joker-sounding grunts and growls in the hopes that it would stick. The Joker is an over the top person, but even with all the mannerisms, Ledger still comes off as a person.
The Joker has presence. He doesn't play second fiddle. Think of a cartoon, movie, or video game in which The Joker didn't dominate every scene he was in. He makes Batman shut up until the fighting is done. Not only did Harley Quinn make him look like a lovesick boy, but his own presence was lacking. I never saw Leto on screen and thought "That guy's really in charge."
Leto's worst crime of all isn't that he's just bad, but that he turns the most dangerous person in Gotham City, a madman who blows up hospitals, robs banks, and inflicts unthinkable acts of violence into a boy whose greatest aspiration is to pick up his girlfriend.
And even his mannerisms, which can certainly make for an entertaining performance are off. I kept thinking "No, your voice should have been lower or higher." or "No, that laugh should have sounded different."
The Joker can be many things, but he's not small and don't give me the script excuse. Even one scene of Ledger's joker was enough to establish his dominance over the screen.
NeonZ
Member
They didn't "forget" that movie existed. They went with a dark tone for the DCCU initially exactly due to that movie. They just didn't have creative talent good enough to pull it off again. Apparently getting people to do super hero movies for them, when there's already a successful series of movies running, isn't nearly as easy as you seem to think.
Overall though, the whole idea of going with dark super hero movies was flawed from the start, if you look at it from an overall franchise point of view. Even the Nolan Bat movies, in spite of having extremely successful box office for the 2nd and 3rd entries actually didn't do that well on the merchandising side of things. DC's toylines have languished for more than a decade now due to the movie failures like Green Lantern, or focus on a darker atmosphere, which limits its child audience even for successful entries like Nolan's.
This is a dumb argument. Financially they broke even but you would have to be an idiot to think WB wasn't extremely upset with how things have gone. On BvS and SS alone they each could have gotten 300-400 million more WW had they been good movies. In addition WB is probably shitting their pants thinking what kind of drops sequels could have considering how sequels to shitty movies tend to have large drops. They wanted to create a cinematic universe similar to marvel and reap the benefits for the next decade. Not have a one and done movie.
Xamtheking
Member
Leto's biggest flaw as the Joker was not being in the film enough
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
idk xamchan idk
maybe. maybe you're right. idk though. my love for jared leto might be colouring my bias.
cuz i think his joker was bad, but i love the actor guy a lot so yeah, idk. maybe.
All the weird Avid farts that destroyed his performance were worse. I didn't want to watch more of that.
BronsonLee
Member
never
trust
freenudemacusers
trust
freenudemacusers
ViewtifulJC
Banned
ITT: people not familiar with freenudes brand of gimmick posting
"A film too artistic for simple minds"?
Xamtheking
Member
As a former mac user, can confirm that is gibberish
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
but were you nude or not
TheDinoman
Member
As the other guys mentioned, those are still disappointing, ESPECIALLY Batman v. Superman. That title alone should of guaranteed billions of dollars...except when it's on a movie like BVS.
If he had been in the film more, the film should have been about him. Which is great. I would have loved to see him instead of the Enchantress.
But what would more Joker have meant? Him terrorizing the city? Him completely disrupting the original premise of the film? Him fighting against members of the suicide squad? Yes, please.
But all of that is undermined by the fact that his portrayal can't withstand all of the various hats The Joker has to be a force, both mysterious and humorous, evil and delightful. Heath Ledger's Joker felt like a person with a lot of crazy. Jared Leto's Joker felt like a make-up job with a lot of voices.
Heh, I did say BvS was going to earn more than TFA and Civil War.
In hindsight, I don't think it's a strange opinion: Batman, Superman, and Wonderwoman together + Argo Team to undo whatever the hell Snyder was doing before + MoS making pretty decent money even with bad reviews.
freenudemacusers
Member
it's not a gimmick if that's all you do, the MCU taught me that.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Yes, Warner Bros is ecstatic that their tentpole franchise, which it not only supposed to reap in huge profits on release but also provide a safety net in case more risky projects flop, is only barely breaking even upon release and needs to rely on home video sales to make any profit.
Yeah, I'm sure they're popping the champagne bottles right now.
Xamtheking
Member
Yes
Leto did not have nearly enough time and had a second string role
I don't think we should judge him based on the very small amount of screentime he got, we need more of him to accurately judge
Gentleman Jack
Member
I wouldn't put any of this on Leto as much as the screenplay and editing of the film. I don't think Leto did nearly as bad a job as gets commonly claimed around here, as there's scant evidence of how good or bad a job he did overall and what does exist ended up on the cutting room floor.
What did he mean by this?
Member
Well they deserved it this time unlike BvS. I dont even care about the bts editing drama, its clear the baseline story was flawed/wrong/illogical/horrible from day 0.
Also, someone in the editing booth decided to take all Leto's takes where he's growling. There's a real growling motif in there. Ans unless he growled in every take, then I think the people who went with growling Joker takes made a mistake
Also, someone in the editing booth decided to take all Leto's takes where he's growling. There's a real growling motif in there. Ans unless he growled in every take, then I think the people who went with growling Joker takes made a mistake
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
also i still dont understand how joker
DC pls
was out and about in the open as a nightclub owner in gotham
wouldn't that make it easy for batsie just to say hi anytime he wants to
i mean, the dude broke out from arkham asylum with a posse of his henchmen dressed in animal outfits (which was soooooooo cute) but then after he broke out, batsie didn't come by and at least politely request him to go back?
this is the same batsie that branded criminals so they can die in prison?
the same batsie that was brutally punching a duder in a fight?
the same batsie that was hellbent at killing supes and ended up fighting a kryptonian monster?
this same batsie from this universe chose just to "let" this joker out of arkham asylum and own and operate a nightclub?
wouldn't that make it easy for batsie just to say hi anytime he wants to
i mean, the dude broke out from arkham asylum with a posse of his henchmen dressed in animal outfits (which was soooooooo cute) but then after he broke out, batsie didn't come by and at least politely request him to go back?
this is the same batsie that branded criminals so they can die in prison?
the same batsie that was brutally punching a duder in a fight?
the same batsie that was hellbent at killing supes and ended up fighting a kryptonian monster?
this same batsie from this universe chose just to "let" this joker out of arkham asylum and own and operate a nightclub?
pls DC
*entire universe subject to change, stay tuned for box office
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Tbh, I'm starting to think that this isn't so much about the movie but moviegoers habits... Like I think that this will be a reoccurring theme for many movies moving forward since I feel people are just not going to the movies that frequently. The first week feels like everyone coming out and the next week is back to the regularly scheduled program... Idk, Im speaking anecdotally but it's just what I see after the first blockbuster week period... Booming parking lots the first week, less cars the second week.
I think the biggest lie ever perpetuated is the idea that you can't do something cool or amazing with a really small amount of screen time.
-Anthony Hopkins in The Silence of the Lambs
-Ryan Reynolds' first run as Deadpool in the X-Men Origins Wolverine before his face gets covered up
-Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men
-Gene Hackman in Unforgiven
-The opening to Watchmen
Watch this under 1 minute scene from Game of Thrones season 4. Obviously HUGE spoilers if you haven't seen that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrQmG6azyDM
Now this is a show that often has terrible screenwriting and some really unimaginative editing/direction, but often gets by on pure spectacle.
My point is that the effectiveness of a film seldom has to do with how long it's on, but how it makes the audience feel.
-Anthony Hopkins in The Silence of the Lambs
-Ryan Reynolds' first run as Deadpool in the X-Men Origins Wolverine before his face gets covered up
-Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men
-Gene Hackman in Unforgiven
-The opening to Watchmen
Watch this under 1 minute scene from Game of Thrones season 4. Obviously HUGE spoilers if you haven't seen that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrQmG6azyDM
In this short scene, you see Tyrion being imprisoned, some outstanding acting from Charles Dance and Lena Headey, some incredible music, an exciting escape sequence, and an awesome view of King's Landing that had never been done on the show before.
Now this is a show that often has terrible screenwriting and some really unimaginative editing/direction, but often gets by on pure spectacle.
My point is that the effectiveness of a film seldom has to do with how long it's on, but how it makes the audience feel.
Current DCEU is definitely a mess but remember Nolan Batman still remains the gold standard for the genre so they just have to find better directors
IndoAssassin
Banned
I heard DC will consider it a success if it makes $300 mill dom and $600 mill WW.
Ban Puncher
Member
If anyone is good at used to rebooting universes, it's DC.
PayOffWizard
Member
Where's that superhero movie anticipation thread?
If I remember correctly most people were really looking forward to this and thought dead pool would be the stinker.
If I remember correctly most people were really looking forward to this and thought dead pool would be the stinker.
It's sad that this is a thing for DCEU.
They have amazing material to work from, why don't they use it?
Too similar to MCU in tone. Have to be dark & edgy. That's what they think kiddos want
IndoAssassin
Banned
Batman redeemed himself remember.
When he found out his mother had the same name as another's and then he went on a killing rampage to free said mother. But decided to let Luthor live who almost destroyed the Earth.
I guess Batman likes psychotic people.
Primethius
Banned
I'm pretty sure that SS will make a profit and doesn't have a break even point so high that it won't be a success.
The biggest issue DC faces is that the sequels are to going to have problems due to the absolutely awful reception of the first few movies.
At this point, they'll need amazing marketing and some great movies to rescue some of the characters they've ruined over the course of the decade (aside from the trinity and who knows, maybe even them).
The biggest issue DC faces is that the sequels are to going to have problems due to the absolutely awful reception of the first few movies.
At this point, they'll need amazing marketing and some great movies to rescue some of the characters they've ruined over the course of the decade (aside from the trinity and who knows, maybe even them).
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
yeah but wouldnt he still want to put criminals away, i mean
that's the core of batman, right? crime fighter batsie?
im not asking why batman doesnt kill the joker. im wondering why he doesnt put him back into arkham asylum, cuz even in the real world, the assumptions is that you dont just get a jail free card if an inmate or a mental hospital patient broke out of jail or sanatorium, right?
that's the core of batman, right? crime fighter batsie?
im not asking why batman doesnt kill the joker. im wondering why he doesnt put him back into arkham asylum, cuz even in the real world, the assumptions is that you dont just get a jail free card if an inmate or a mental hospital patient broke out of jail or sanatorium, right?
To be fair the bolded is implyed (more on the extended version than the normal cut) that it was a Lex thing that the world's greatest detective somehow didn't knew about.
The Artisan
Member
why doesn't WB just create their own studio for DC movies like disney did with marvel
Dash_Riprock
Member
If anything it'll mean even more.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Big movies are definitely heavily frontloaded these days, but they still need some legs to make their money back. They're expected to have 50 - 60% drops in the second weekend, and then decent holds (<50% drops) in succeeding weekends. You just can't catch up to the budgets for these things losing two-thirds of the audience or more after the first weekend.
They either have to spend less or keep more butts in seats after opening weekend.
Anyway, the Friday-to-Friday drop isn't good but also doesn't seem particularly indicative of anything other than "not amazing legs". We'll see what the actual weekend estimates are. Sixty percent would be pretty good considering it overperformed opening weekend.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
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