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Nintendo NX rumored to use Nvidia's Pascal GPU architecture

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LordOfChaos

LordOfChaos

Member
Thraktor said:
But the point of using an architecture like Nvidia's is that there's no difference between "mobile graphics" and "console graphics" in terms of hardware. In both cases there are a handful of ARM cores and some number of Pascal SMs, ROPs, etc., and the reason that one is considered a handheld SoC and the other is considered a home console SoC is down to the fact that the former has much lower clock speeds to keep power draw in the low single digits, and the latter is clocked much higher because it can be actively cooled and battery consumption isn't a concern. There's no point in releasing an Apple TV style passively cooled microconsole when you could slap a cheap heatsink and fan on there and easily double or triple the performance.
Click to expand...

I want Apple to slap a heatsink and fan on the A9 for the Apple TV :(

When I saw it was larger I got all hyped, but it looks like it's a bog standard A8 (apart from having 2GB RAM).

Imagine the Apple TV on the X series though...A9X this year, A10X next...It would creep up on the base consoles alarmingly fast.
 
O

Oregano

Member
The most exciting thing about the possibility of a high resolution, high powered Nintendo handheld is seeing the justifications third parties give for going with Chibi art styles for everything.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
TLZ said:
Every time I venture into a NX thread hoping for news or reading new speculation I'm met with this poison. Let's just rename it to the "SMD says" thread. It's all he say she say. Where has all the intelligent posts gone? Why do you even bother? Why anyone is so worked up over others' findings/speculation is beyond me. Everything is a rumor. No side has facts. Nothing is 100% confirmed. No official news. You're not better trying to prove your speculation as fact forcing it on them. To each their own. It's like everyone's on a high horse now and all they care about is do nothing but hate on the other to prove them wrong. Who gives a toss who behaves how or why? I thought the whole point of speculation on rumors is for people to have fun? How's jumping down each other's throats fun? This is stupid and pointless bickering and I seriously hope you are all wrong and Nintendo reveals the NX is nothing but a potato. Then I'll feed you, Nate, King Snake, 10k, Neoxon, Trev, PE, Emily, Eurogamer and every insider, potato stuffed crows till the cows come home.

:mad:
Click to expand...

Are you happynintendofan? Because that would explain a lot of things.

Nothing stops you from sticking to your fantasy. Believe!
 
C

Cow Mengde

Banned
blu said:
That machine has been the pinnacle of the industry for me. An absolutely-no-compromise, state-of-the-art design. I literally had rage outbursts for a week once I learned nintendo were butchering it with the $99 SKU.
Click to expand...

People also don't realize the system could have been released with the PS2, but the software wasn't ready, so the system had to be delayed.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
MuchoMalo said:
I don't see anything wrong with what he said...
Click to expand...

We have rules on GAF about rumours. That's why insiders get certified and the fake ones are banned. That's why website get banned when they report too many fake news. That's why the threads based on irrelevant youtubers or twitter accounts are easily locked. Not every rumour have the same weight. Yes, the rumours with more weight can turn up wrong also, but that doesn't make a happynintendofan more relevant.

Still, speculating in a thread like this is perfectly fine, as it is criticising the said speculation. Using some non-verified source it's not OK.

So no, not all rumours are born equal.
 
M

MuchoMalo

Banned
KingSnake said:
We have rules on GAF about rumours. That's why insiders get certified and the fake ones are banned. That's why website get banned when they report too many fake news. That's why the threads based on irrelevant youtubers or twitter accounts are easily locked. Not every rumour have the same weight. Yes, the rumours with more weight can turn up wrong also, but that doesn't make a happynintendofan more relevant.

Still, speculating in a thread like this is perfectly fine, as it is criticising the said speculation. Using some non-verified source it's not OK.

So no, not all rumours are born equal.
Click to expand...

I agree, but I also don't think we should stoop to their level with the witchhunt and stating rumors as absolute fact.
 
G

ggx2ac

Member
KingSnake said:
We have rules on GAF about rumours. That's why insiders get certified and the fake ones are banned. That's why website get banned when they report too many fake news. That's why the threads based on irrelevant youtubers or twitter accounts are easily locked. Not every rumour have the same weight. Yes, the rumours with more weight can turn up wrong also, but that doesn't make a happynintendofan more relevant.

Still, speculating in a thread like this is perfectly fine, as it is criticising the said speculation. Using some non-verified source it's not OK.

So no, not all rumours are born equal.
Click to expand...

This was the part I was confused about with TLZ being mad at me for criticising things. You can say whatever you want as long as it's speculation. If you start claiming that it's proof, why can't I debunk your claim? (Especially referring to SuperMetalDave and the like.)

MuchoMalo said:
I agree, but I also don't think we should stoop to their level with the witchhunt and stating rumors as absolute fact.
Click to expand...

I made the mistake of interacting with them on Twitter to debunk their claims. I'm not going to do it again considering how ridiculous they acted.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
MuchoMalo said:
I agree, but I also don't think we should stoop to their level with the witchhunt and stating rumors as absolute fact.
Click to expand...

The rumours that get their own threads have the same power as facts until proven wrong. That's the whole point of having threads and discussing them.

Edit: that doesn't mean you're not allowed to contest them, but when you do that just because you don't like the news their bringing it doesn't help the discussion in any way. You're practically better to just ignore them.
 
M

MuchoMalo

Banned
KingSnake said:
The rumours that get their own threads have the same power as facts until proven wrong. That's the whole of having threads and discussing them.
Click to expand...

confused1.gif


Uh, well, we'll agree to disagree...
 
blu

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
LordOfChaos said:
I want Apple to slap a heatsink and fan on the A9 for the Apple TV :(

When I saw it was larger I got all hyped, but it looks like it's a bog standard A8 (apart from having 2GB RAM).

Imagine the Apple TV on the X series though...A9X this year, A10X next...It would creep up on the base consoles alarmingly fast.
Click to expand...
Technically, they did put a reasonable heatsink in the last apple TV, but sill passive, of course. They couldn't afford to suck out those batteries now, could they?

Apple's mobiles generally seem lost to an audience like us - Apple have brilliant engineering and could produce state-of-the-art performance devices, accompanied by an open software ecosystem. Instead, they produce nice-performance, state-of-the-art-thickness walled-garden devices. Because that's what the masses like. I still can't figure out for the life of me why the ipad pro is not a MacOS-lite netbook.
 
N

NateDrake

Member
TLZ said:
Every time I venture into a NX thread hoping for news or reading new speculation I'm met with this poison. Let's just rename it to the "SMD says" thread. It's all he say she say. Where has all the intelligent posts gone? Why do you even bother? Why anyone is so worked up over others' findings/speculation is beyond me. Everything is a rumor. No side has facts. Nothing is 100% confirmed. No official news. You're not better trying to prove your speculation as fact forcing it on them. To each their own. It's like everyone's on a high horse now and all they care about is do nothing but hate on the other to prove them wrong. Who gives a toss who behaves how or why? I thought the whole point of speculation on rumors is for people to have fun? How's jumping down each other's throats fun? This is stupid and pointless bickering and I seriously hope you are all wrong and Nintendo reveals the NX is nothing but a potato. Then I'll feed you, Nate, King Snake, 10k, Neoxon, Trev, PE, Emily, Eurogamer and every insider, potato stuffed crows till the cows come home.

:mad:
Click to expand...

People get upset when a person finds a random bit of technology - like a battery powered d-pad that emits lasers to engrave your name on the wall of the house and then links it to NX, based on nothing but personal feelings. Too many people are presenting speculation as fact without support to back such claims. Speculate all you want, but no one should be saying "This is related to NX because I have proof" and then the proof doesn't appear. It's all been clickbait article headlines on Twitter 'Nintendo NX: You Won't Believe What This LinkedIn Says It Can Do' and then the video or Tweet is based on nothing. It's been a circus of crazy, and it's exhausting. Yesterday proved as much when that Yahoo article began to be reported by Nintendo fansites and make its rounds on Twitter because no one took the time to read the damn thing. Instead people said 'Proof AMD is NX GPU Win' and it became a Twitter rumor fire that has yet to be extinguished.
 
1

10k

Banned
NateDrake said:
People get upset when a person finds a random bit of technology - like a battery powered d-pad that emits lasers to engrave your name on the wall of the house and then links it to NX, based on nothing but personal feelings. Too many people are presenting speculation as fact without support to back such claims. Speculate all you want, but no one should be saying "This is related to NX because I have proof" and then the proof doesn't appear. It's all been clickbait article headlines on Twitter 'Nintendo NX: You Won't Believe What This LinkedIn Says It Can Do' and then the video or Tweet is based on nothing. It's been a circus of crazy, and it's exhausting. Yesterday proved as much when that Yahoo article began to be reported by Nintendo fansites and make its rounds on Twitter because no one took the time to read the damn thing. Instead people said 'Proof AMD is NX GPU Win' and it became a Twitter rumor fire that has yet to be extinguished.
Click to expand...
Can't wait for the ads and Twitter posts that read like this "Other consoles are mad at NX"
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
megasus said:
It's a comparison. Treating rumours as facts is like treating people guilty until proven innocent.
Both should be the other way around!
Click to expand...

If you didn't get it the first time, I was saying that your analogy is wrong and it doesn't work here.

Edit: to be clear, these rumours come from proven sources, credible witnesses if you want.
 
H

Hilarion

Member
Oregano said:
The most exciting thing about the possibility of a high resolution, high powered Nintendo handheld is seeing the justifications third parties give for going with Chibi art styles for everything.
Click to expand...

Because it's a more charming and interesting visual direction than the tedious "realistic" aesthetic?

I know I'd be very disappointed if a hypothetical Bravely Third on NX looked like FFXV rather than like Bravely Default. It's a much more charming art style and I hate games going for the realistic aesthetic, it does nothing for me.
 
J

James Scott

Banned
Hilarion said:
Because it's a more charming and interesting visual direction than the tedious "realistic" aesthetic?

I know I'd be very disappointed if a hypothetical Bravely Third on NX looked like FFXV rather than like Bravely Default. It's a much more charming art style and I hate games going for the realistic aesthetic, it does nothing for me.
Click to expand...
Chibi art style is usually because of limitations. You can make a stylized game without being chibi.
 
M

MuchoMalo

Banned
After some careful thought, my opinion on what's in NX:

Nvidia is most likely, followed by DMP (I know that I shouldn't, but I can see it), and then AMD. This is assuming a portable. If it's DMP, the Tegra X1 is in the kit merely because it's the closest chip in performance to that new DMP chip coming. Also, I don't think that "Tegra X2" is on the table at all, but a custom ARM CPU + Pascal GPU SoC based on Tegra IP is very much possible. This is what I've come to based on what's happened in recent days.
 
blu

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
MuchoMalo said:
After some careful thought, my opinion on what's in NX:

Nvidia is most likely, followed by DMP (I know that I shouldn't, but I can see it), and then AMD. This is assuming a portable. If it's DMP, the Tegra X1 is in the kit merely because it's the closest chip in performance to that new DMP chip coming. Also, I don't think that "Tegra X2" is on the table at all, but a custom ARM CPU + Pascal GPU SoC based on Tegra IP is very much possible. This is what I've come to based on what's happened in recent days.
Click to expand...
Something happened recently?
 
S

sfried

Member
antonz said:
DMP announced a new chip for first half 2017. It looks to be in the potential Tegra X2 range of performance but there simply isn't enough details on it and I really doubt Nvidia would get dumped again
Click to expand...
Plus, wouldn't it be too late to get production started at this point?
 
G

GhostTrick

Banned
Just seen DMP Indeed has announced DMP M3000 gpu. It seems this serie also has support for the Maestro extensions, which would potentially mean 3DS backward compatibility.
 
D

Doctre81

Member
That new DMP chip claims to get close to ps4 and xbox one of performance with only 64 stream processors. That sounds kinda fishy to me.

And it looks to be close to x1 not x2. That teraflop number they are giving out is FP16 I believe. Same as X1.
 
M

MuchoMalo

Banned
Doctre81 said:
That new DMP chip claims to get close to ps4 and xbox one of performance with only 64 stream processors. That sounds kinda fishy to me.
Click to expand...

Speaking of which... I saw some of your latest video where you were saying that Nintendo could potentially match Xbone in a handheld with a Pascal-based Tegra. You should probably dial back your expectations... a lot. Around half of Xbone is the best best case on battery power, and even that is pretty unrealistic.
 
1

10k

Banned
MuchoMalo said:
Speaking of which... I saw some of your latest video where you were saying that Nintendo could potentially match Xbone in a handheld with a Pascal-based Tegra. You should probably dial back your expectations... a lot. Around half of Xbone is the best best case on battery power, and even that is pretty unrealistic.
Click to expand...
I think it can MATCH Xbox One performance but at 720p and less LOD.
 
D

Doctre81

Member
MuchoMalo said:
Speaking of which... I saw some of your latest video where you were saying that Nintendo could potentially match Xbone in a handheld with a Pascal-based Tegra. You should probably dial back your expectations... a lot. Around half of Xbone is the best best case on battery power, and even that is pretty unrealistic.
Click to expand...

I was talking about while plugged to the tv. The stock x1 already does nearly half the flops of the xbox one. X2 should be way close than that. Pscal is supposed to offer 2x the performance per watt over maxwell and up to 4x half precision. I will wait and see regarding the battery thing. I am expecting this thing to be pretty large,
 
M

MuchoMalo

Banned
Doctre81 said:
I was talking about while plugged to the tv. The stock x1 already does nearly half the flops of the xbox one. X2 should be way close than that. Pscal is supposed to offer 2x the performance per watt over maxwell and up to 4x half precision. I will wait and see regarding the battery thing. I am expecting this thing to be pretty large,
Click to expand...

That's 2x performance per watt over 28nm Maxwell. The Tegra X1 is an 20nm chip, so the gain would be significantly smaller. Even if you were correct, it would still mean that NX would need a heatsink capable of dissipating 10W of heat. That's definitely not happening without active cooling. Even with active cooling in a docked mode (which I really believe is not happening), you shouldn't expect more than 700-800 GFLOPS.

10k said:
I think it can MATCH Xbox One performance but at 720p and less LOD.
Click to expand...

That's not matching lol
 
N

NateDrake

Member
antonz said:
DMP announced a new chip for first half 2017. It looks to be in the potential Tegra X2 range of performance but there simply isn't enough details on it and I really doubt Nvidia would get dumped again
Click to expand...

Wouldn't a 28nm chip be too large to use in a handheld device?
 
G

ggx2ac

Member
MuchoMalo said:
After some careful thought, my opinion on what's in NX:

Nvidia is most likely, followed by DMP (I know that I shouldn't, but I can see it), and then AMD. This is assuming a portable. If it's DMP, the Tegra X1 is in the kit merely because it's the closest chip in performance to that new DMP chip coming. Also, I don't think that "Tegra X2" is on the table at all, but a custom ARM CPU + Pascal GPU SoC based on Tegra IP is very much possible. This is what I've come to based on what's happened in recent days.
Click to expand...

It sounds like a very strange scenario to occur. Going from Tegra X1 in dev kits to DMP again when we know that Pascal would be a big boost in performance.

The Tegra designs of now are very refined compared to what a Tegra 2 or 3 was long ago.
 
D

Doctre81

Member
MuchoMalo said:
That's 2x performance per watt over 28nm Maxwell. The Tegra X1 is an 20nm chip, so the gain would be significantly smaller. Even if you were correct, it would still mean that NX would need a heatsink capable of dissipating 10W of heat. That's definitely not happening without active cooling. Even with active cooling in a docked mode (which I really believe is not happening), you shouldn't expect more than 700-800 GFLOPS.



That's not matching lol
Click to expand...

LOL well don't forget about it being a lot more effiencient :)

And maybe this will show us if flops really are the be all end of of performance.
 
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