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[ggx2ac]

RX480 with 4GB GDDR5 are $199. I don't know how much other stuff that you need in the dock would cost but seems they could come up with something competitive next year if they wanted to.

The RX 480 is assumed to be what's going inside the Neo, so if Nintendo could pull off a combined package of $400 (the expected price of the Neo), this would pretty much be a way to compete directly in regards to power, while providing additional functionality for the cost. Then again, they could also go for something lower (RX 470) for less, and still have a decently powerful home console that would be relevant to developers.

I'm not sure what the best solution for RAM would be in this scenario, and I can't seem to find accurate costs for LPDDR4. However, DDR4 seems to be getting less and less expensive, so I suspect the RAM wouldn't be a huge extra cost, but I could be mistaken.

Also, in regard to marketing the console, I just had an idea of how they might market the SCD...

I completely forgot about the VRAM that comes with GPU Cards. I was stuck thinking of a configuration similar to the PS4.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

I generally think it's a mistake to assume SCDs and additional computing power in the dock are a given.

 

[MuchoMalo]

I generally think it's a mistake to assume SCDs and additional computing power in the dock are a given.

Talking about the possibility or how it could be done is not the same as taking it as a given. Ugh.

 

[Dark Cloud]

If they're combining handheld and console, then YES something will be done for a better experience when it's hooked to the tv. We're not about to play some handheld game straight up on a tv. Either the dock or something makes it better for the tv. Or like some say it's already better on tv and goes down to handheld.

 

[ggx2ac]

If they're combining handheld and console, then YES something will be done for a better experience when it's hooked to the tv. We're not about to play some handheld game straight up on a tv. Either the dock or something makes it better for the tv. Or like some say it's already better on tv and goes down to handheld.

If, this is all true. No NX home consoles, hybrid only, SCD is essentially an external GPU ignoring any added features.

Then, they'd have to have games featuring the SCD at launch.

We'd have to see the SCD revealed along with the NX where they could show this improvement in visuals. Say using Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild or any AAA third party game I guess.

The only problem is the lack of information about developers having to make two versions of the same game or something to that effect.

Hence why a lot of time was spent speculating about the dock but lacking information of the above.

 

[sfried]

Man.. SMD suggested the same thing in an article that was listed in one of the NX threads. I really don't see why Nintendo would do something like that, though, and it would confuse the developers even more than they have.

I mean, logistically it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to license chip technology only to implement if on a couple of early devkits. That would be wasting money...

 

[heidern]

I generally think it's a mistake to assume SCDs and additional computing power in the dock are a given.

It's generally a mistake to assume anything is a given seeing as Nintendo themselves haven't reveal much concrete information. We do know that the Wii U was a failure and therefore there will definitely be major changes made for the NX.

We'd have to see the SCD revealed along with the NX where they could show this improvement in visuals. Say using Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild or any AAA third party game I guess.

The only problem is the lack of information about developers having to make two versions of the same game or something to that effect.

I'd assume the primary goal of any SCD would be to push up the resolution. Around 2-4TF would allow 1080p whereas 6-8TF would allow 4K. RX480 peak is 5.8TF.

 

[Dark Cloud]

If, this is all true. No NX home consoles, hybrid only, SCD is essentially an external GPU ignoring any added features.

Then, they'd have to have games featuring the SCD at launch.

We'd have to see the SCD revealed along with the NX where they could show this improvement in visuals. Say using Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild or any AAA third party game I guess.

The only problem is the lack of information about developers having to make two versions of the same game or something to that effect.

Hence why a lot of time was spent speculating about the dock but lacking information of the above.

Look at Dragon Quest XI for example. Let's say it's coming-which version will the NX have? I'm assuming PS4, but is that it? Probably, and it would make tons of sense in Japan since the NX is supposedly a high powered handheld. Now the Japanese get a 3DSv on the go and a console version of DQXI on the go.

I would say we would see the SCD because it would be vital for Zelda when you play Zelda on your tv. Zelda on a handheld is a downgrade in resolution.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

Talking about the possibility or how it could be done is not the same as taking it as a given. Ugh.

I mean, you're welcome to discuss what you want, but I think discussing packaging details and capabilities of a device that we have no indication of existing is rather premature.

 

[onQ123]

Seems this is what DMP will be offering.

link

I'd prefer Nvidia Tegra (semi custom X1 or X2) over DMP just because every developer is familiar with their architecture, tools, software ecosystem, etc.
I doubt DMP's M3000 would really be able to match Tegra X2 in practice which is what counts, not paper specs.

GPU has the same name as PS4's last major FW update & PS4 & Neo will share FW updates & there will be a SoC using the GPU released early 2017? interesting

Our next major system software update for PS4, version 3.50 (codenamed MUSASHI), is out tomorrow! http://blog.us.playstation.com/2016/04/05/playstation-3-50-system-software-update-out-tomorrow/

 

[Hilarion]

I still think the most logical "dock" function would be that the NX is throttled in handheld use for battery preservation and once docked and plugged into AC power it clocks up to a much more energy-using, higher-performance level.

I.E. it doubles its GPU clockspeed etc. when plugged in. Doubling would work perfectly with the 768p handheld screen people were talking about earlier as it'd scale up to 1080p.

 

[heidern]

I still think the most logical "dock" function would be that the NX is throttled in handheld use for battery preservation and once docked and plugged into AC power it clocks up to a much more energy-using, higher-performance level.

I don't think that's necessarily the most logical because if the NX portable has a touchscreen and controls you need to be holding it and thus not able to plug it into the dock.

 

[KingSnake]

Man.. SMD suggested the same thing in an article that was listed in one of the NX threads. I really don't see why Nintendo would do something like that, though, and it would confuse the developers even more than they have.

So now his shtick is "anything but Nvidia"? How would DMP help his AMD theory?

 

[Rooster]

GPU has the same name as PS4's last major FW update & PS4 & Neo will share FW updates & there will be a SoC using the GPU released early 2017? interesting

Two Japanese companies naming products after one of the most famous samurai who ever lived isn't all that interesting.

 

[Cow Mengde]

I mean, logistically it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to license chip technology only to implement if on a couple of early devkits. That would be wasting money...

Or they were testing multiple chips. The original 3DS was supposed to be Tegra as well. When Nvidia couldn't deliver the performance, Nintendo switched to DMP. For all we know, this could be the same situation. Maybe Nintendo is shopping around for chips, and they did look at a Tegra based chip, but AMD and/or DMP are also competing to win this deal. This is the most logical reason why the GPU is different. I'm not saying it's is a proof that the GPU will be different.

 

[blu]

Or they were testing multiple chips. The original 3DS was supposed to be Tegra as well. When Nvidia couldn't deliver the performance, Nintendo switched to DMP. For all we know, this could be the same situation. Maybe Nintendo is shopping around for chips, and they did look at a Tegra based chip, but AMD and/or DMP are also competing to win this deal. This is the most logical reason why the GPU is different. I'm not saying it's is a proof that the GPU will be different.

Nintendo can't be shopping around at this stage. Whatever SoC we get in March was set in stone many, many months ago from today.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Nintendo can't be shopping around at this stage. Whatever SoC we get in March has been set in stone many, many months ago from today.

Who says they're shopping around now? For all we know, the rumors come from a very old build, that's why information could be leaked.

Again, I'm NOT saying this is proof of anything, just that how a scenario like this is possible.

 

[LeleSocho]

W-why all of a sudden people are talking about DMP?

 

[GhostTrick]

W-why all of a sudden people are talking about DMP?

Because DMP announced a new GPU chip, which also have an optionnal Maestro instructions block. But this is mostly unrelated I think.

 

[KingSnake]

Or they were testing multiple chips. The original 3DS was supposed to be Tegra as well. When Nvidia couldn't deliver the performance, Nintendo switched to DMP. For all we know, this could be the same situation. Maybe Nintendo is shopping around for chips, and they did look at a Tegra based chip, but AMD and/or DMP are also competing to win this deal. This is the most logical reason why the GPU is different. I'm not saying it's is a proof that the GPU will be different.

Wouldn't the testing be done internally and way before sending out devkits? The devs should know when they receive the devkits what specs to target. Sure, things change from one devkit to another, but not the whole architecture.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Wouldn't the testing be done internally and way before sending out devkits? The devs should know when they receive the devkits what specs to target. Sure, things change from one devkit to another, but not the whole architecture.

How did info that the 3DS was suppose to use Tegra get leaked? Was it from Nintendo, or a 3rd party? Can we even trust that old rumor?

 

[AmyS]

Nintendo can't be shopping around at this stage. Whatever SoC we get in March was set in stone many, many months ago from today.

blu speaks the truth.

 

[G.ZZZ]

How did info that the 3DS was suppose to use Tegra get leaked? Was it from Nintendo, or a 3rd party? Can we even trust that old rumor?

Oh god not this again.

Eurogamer leaked it, then after some months it leaked that it wasn't Tegra anymore. Photos of old devkits with Tegra in its came out too.

 

[Easy_D]

Nintendo can't be shopping around at this stage. Whatever SoC we get in March was set in stone many, many months ago from today.

Oh god not this again.

Eurogamer leaked it, then after some months it leaked that it wasn't Tegra anymore. Photos of old devkits with Tegra in its came out too.

Two facts that pretty much cements the use of a Tegra variant in the NX, I feel. Eurogamer seems to have legitimate-ass sources.

 

[OBias]

I remember seeing a photo of the TEG development board for the 3DS on the ASSEMbler forums.

 

[ggx2ac]

Two facts that pretty much cements the use of a Tegra variant in the NX, I feel. Eurogamer seems to have legitimate-ass sources.

You bring up a very good point. We have people doubting Eurogamer but they managed to do this twice now.

They found out info about 3DS dev kits years ago and now they've done it again with NX.

You can deny it if you want until the reveal actually happens but, it's been weird these past couple of weeks that people have used the Tegra 2 3DS dev kit rumours from Eurogamer against them rather than supporting their current rumours. Not even mentioning other things like Project Neo or Scorpio. (I can't remember if they reported on both getting insider info.)

And as Blu said and I said in the other thread when DMP came up, we are very late in the game. If Nintendo wanted to switch vendors now, expect a major delay for the NX.

Edit: I imagine most people don't want to wait any longer for NX. lol

 

[Mr Swine]

Read a rumour that Nvidia may go from TSMC to Samsung so they can start producing 14nm cards. Could this be used for NX if Nvidia is the one that has licensed out to Nintendo?

http://m.sweclockers.com/nyhet/22500-nvidia-anlitar-samsung-for-tillverkning-pa-14-nanometer

It's in Swedish afaik

 

[Peterc]

Well, there are those who doubt the report - as you have seen readily on Twitter with HNF. No website worth a damn has reported conflicting reports, however. Which is odd since never before have we seen a situation where a base is so adamant that multiple sites are wrong while presenting no evidence or proof beyond speculation to support their claims.

I believe it will be pascal, but maybe a tweaked version. Don't know why some still think it's tegra. Nvidia wants Nintendo to succeed with their handheld, so that's why they canceled their shield device. They want to have Nintendo to use their best chip for it. It aren't only credits for Nintendo, but also for them if the nx will be a success.

 

[OBias]

I believe it will be pascal, but maybe a tweaked version. Don't know why some still think it's tegra. Nvidia wants Nintendo to succeed with their handheld, so that's why they canceled their shield device. They want to have Nintendo to use their best chip for it. It aren't only credits for Nintendo, but also for them if the nx will be a success.

Tegra and Pascal are not mutually exclusive.

 

[ggx2ac]

Read a rumour that Nvidia may go from TSMC to Samsung so they can start producing 14nm cards. Could this be used for NX if Nvidia is the one that has licensed out to Nintendo?

http://m.sweclockers.com/nyhet/22500-nvidia-anlitar-samsung-for-tillverkning-pa-14-nanometer

It's in Swedish afaik

If Nvidia has only licensed the GPU to Nintendo, then Nintendo handles manufacturing.

We also spent time looking at 16nmFF+ so I don't know what 14nmFF will give in differences of density and power consumption.

I believe it will be pascal, but maybe a tweaked version. Don't know why some still think it's tegra. Nvidia wants Nintendo to succeed with their handheld, so that's why they canceled their shield device. They want to have Nintendo to use their best chip for it. It aren't only credits for Nintendo, but also for them if the nx will be a success.

I do not understand what you are talking about.

Pascal is the architecture for their current GPUs. Tegra is one of their product line of GPUs. Are you saying that Nintendo customising a GPU they license from Nvidia will have no similarity at all to the Tegra line?

I seriously don't understand this story you are making up with Nvidia cancelling their shield 2 tablet for Nintendo to succeed. You know that tablet was rumoured to have an X1 in it from a leaked document. Do you forget that Nvidia is about to unveil their Pascal-based Tegra line at Hot Chips which may be used for their next Nvidia Shield Portable/Tablet/Set-top Box.

Everyone really needs to stop jumping to conclusions pointing to NX as the reason why Tegra cancelled the Shield 2. It's getting beyond silly at this point.

Edit: The relevant thread where it feels like 2% of people read the actual article http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?p=213356796

Edit 2: it's not just you, I've seen other people jump to this conclusion just because Nvidia cancelled one product that would have been using old tech at this point.

They have new a Tegra line for new shield products or licensing them to other companies like Google for a new pixel-c tablet for example. The cancellation of the shield 2 tablet is not about NX.

 

[dr_rus]

So now his shtick is "anything but Nvidia"? How would DMP help his AMD theory?

The most puzzling thing here is that if we're talking about a handheld (even a "hybrid" one) going with NV (or DMP although that'd be a strange choice, mostly costs based) makes a lot more sense technically than going with AMD. I fail to understand why some Nintendo fans seem to be so bent on AMD's h/w. It's not like that h/w helped Nintendo much in WiiU after all.

 

[ggx2ac]

The most puzzling thing here is that if we're talking about a handheld (even a "hybrid" one) going with NV (or DMP although that'd be a strange choice, mostly costs based) makes a lot more sense technically than going with AMD. I fail to understand why some Nintendo fans seem to be so bent on AMD's h/w. It's not like that h/w helped Nintendo much in WiiU after all.

It's because of buzzwords, x86! How many times we have seen people mistakenly think that x86 is related to the power of a console.

I guess the other logic is: AMD does the designs for PlayStation and Xbox ergo, Nintendo can get a console at power parity with them and AAA third party games, etc etc

Edit: I remember seeing people plenty of times state, "Nintendo can make a PS4 and sell it for $300"

 

[dr_rus]

It's because of buzzwords, x86! How many times we have seen people mistakenly think that x86 is related to the power of a console.

I guess the other logic is: AMD does the designs for PlayStation and Xbox ergo, Nintendo can get a console at power parity with them and AAA third party games, etc etc

Edit: I remember seeing people plenty of times state, "Nintendo can make a PS4 and sell it for $300"

Yeah, well, going with ARM and NV would actually be a better option for home consoles as well at the moment. Both Sony and MS are stuck with AMD because they want transparent compatibility. For Nintendo any option beside the Power CPU again means that BC will break anyway and Power is very much dead everywhere but in HPC / supercomputers. So it must be a magic of buzzwords because logically it makes little sense to choose AMD for either a handheld or a home console - unless they'll make a very great costs offer.

 

[ggx2ac]

Yeah, well, going with ARM and NV would actually be a better option for home consoles as well at the moment. Both Sony and MS are stuck with AMD because they want transparent compatibility. For Nintendo any option beside the Power CPU again means that BC will break anyway and Power is very much dead everywhere but in HPC / supercomputers. So it must be a magic of buzzwords because logically it makes little sense to choose AMD for either a handheld or a home console - unless they'll make a very great costs offer.

Indeed, especially after finding out that I think they're are going to drop everything related to ARM and bet it all on Zen because their ARM line for consumer products hasn't been that great. (Remember they sold off their mobile division to Qualcomm years ago.)

And then in the other NX thread I posted an article from PC world stating that they are moving away from ARM-based servers to use Zen for server CPUs. It feels like AMD is a really weak choice for ARM-based products now compared to the competition.

 

[Lutherian]

Should we start "#TeamNVidia" and "#TeamAMD" ?

 

[MuchoMalo]

I mean, you're welcome to discuss what you want, but I think discussing packaging details and capabilities of a device that we have no indication of existing is rather premature.

It's called speculation. If we only talk about what we know, what is there to talk about?

 

[ggx2ac]

Should we start "#TeamNVidia" and "#TeamAMD" ?

Nah, there's good reason we shouldn't be taking on a sports team mentality for something that will end very shortly.

Edit: This is not like #TeamCap #TeamStark where it was a marketing stunt.

 

[casey_contra]

It's called speculation. If we only talk about what we know, what is there to talk about?

And it's all fun! Reading through and posting here is so enjoyable to me.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Should we start "#TeamNVidia" and "#TeamAMD" ?

#TeamDMP

 

[Turrican3]

There's one thing I don't get about the "540p would be s***t on a TV display" people.

Barring some (major?) tweaks on text and/or HUD stuff, I believe it would be reasonable to expect a native 720p or 1080p output on a docked NX setup, not an upscaled one (i.e. huge pixels / extremely blurred image), right?

 

[Lutherian]

Nah, there's good reason we shouldn't be taking on a sports team mentality for something that will end very shortly.

Edit: This is not like #TeamCap #TeamStark where it was a marketing stunt.

I know , it's just that this situation make me think about the awesome #TeamReal and #TeamFake about the "NX Controllers" ^^.

 

[KingSnake]

There's no team #AMD. Just team #fantasy. Not even one decent source points towards AMD providing anything to Nintendo, from GPUs to beer coolers.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

It's called speculation. If we only talk about what we know, what is there to talk about?

Not much. :]

If it were confirmed that the dock offered extra power or that SCDs were a product really in development for NX, then I can see the merit in discussing what's feasible in terms of graphical capabilities and marketing/pricing strategies. Personally, I think that line of discussion is currently pointless, but I'm not expecting anyone to stop. I'm just putting my two cents in.

 

[10k]

There's no team #AMD. Just team #fantasy. Not even one decent source points towards AMD providing anything to Nintendo, from GPUs to beer coolers.

It's looking less likely for the home console too.

 

[Plinko]

There's one thing I don't get about the "540p would be s***t on a TV display" people.

Barring some (major?) tweaks on text and/or HUD stuff, I believe it would be reasonable to expect a native 720p or 1080p output on a docked NX setup, not an upscaled one (i.e. huge pixels / extremely blurred image), right?

Wouldn't the dock need extra power for that?

It's looking less likely for the home console too.

Whoa--what caused this change in tone? Do you believe there is even a home console any more?

 

[wwm0nkey]

There's no team #AMD. Just team #fantasy. Not even one decent source points towards AMD providing anything to Nintendo, from GPUs to beer coolers.

This is my line of thought as well

 

[10k]

Wouldn't the dock need extra power for that?



Whoa--what caused this change in tone? Do you believe there is even a home console any more?

I'm waiting for some more info from a contact but it seems like of there is a home console, it'll also be an Nvidia chip and amd involvement will be the SCD and cloud servers/networking.

 

[Dark Cloud]

I'm waiting for some more info from a contact but it seems like of there is a home console, it'll also be an Nvidia chip and amd involvement will be the SCD and cloud servers/networking.

Wow. I'm actually starting to believe there is a three way between Nintendo, NVidia and AMD.

 

[MuchoMalo]

I'm waiting for some more info from a contact but it seems like of there is a home console, it'll also be an Nvidia chip and amd involvement will be the SCD and cloud servers/networking.

sigh

 

[ElFly]

There's one thing I don't get about the "540p would be s***t on a TV display" people.

Barring some (major?) tweaks on text and/or HUD stuff, I believe it would be reasonable to expect a native 720p or 1080p output on a docked NX setup, not an upscaled one (i.e. huge pixels / extremely blurred image), right?

well it is down to whether the dock permits some better perfomance on the damn thing or not

suddenly rendering at 2x or even 4x the resolution is not free