Backfoggen
Banned
Shit where did you get this pic of the insides of the NeoWhy stop at three? Why not eight? Why stop at BC when you can be forward compatible with the next two generations.
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PlayStation Meeting announced. September 7th 3PM ET (PS4 Neo Reveal)
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Chaostar
Member
Rolling with that colour spectrum.
Bottom image reminds me of Fraunhofer lines.
vpance
Member
That's just ridiculous.Why stop at three? Why not eight? Why stop at BC when you can be forward compatible with the next two generations.
That's clearly NX supplemental computing unit
Explains the 4500gWhy stop at three? Why not eight? Why stop at BC when you can be forward compatible with the next two generations.
It all starts to make sense now.
Why stop at three? Why not eight? Why stop at BC when you can be forward compatible with the next two generations.
But does it run Crysis?
Negotiator
Member
ND could easily deliver Pixar-like CGI graphics in real time at 4k60 with this equipment...Why stop at three? Why not eight? Why stop at BC when you can be forward compatible with the next two generations.
wapplew
Member
1 frame per minute?
wat? I don't know what your saying
True. I'd like to be wrong on this, but I don't see Scorpio coming in at or under $299.99. I think Neo will be pricey as well -- $449.99 being my expectation.
I wonder who will announce the Neo price on stage. House did the PS4 price announcement, but I'd love to see Hirai show up.
Dredd97
Member
it's gonna be the first showing of RDR3, but with an activision twist!
pre-order the game and get 'remaster' of the original RDR2 with the added caveat that just like GTAV you can play it all in first person mode, oh and although it won't be specifically mentioned (because it's a playstation event) it's multi-plat and on pc too
Ok i'm dreaming... but it's a nice thought
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Why stop at three? Why not eight? Why stop at BC when you can be forward compatible with the next two generations.
So? That explains the added box space, now about that cooling solution
After E3 there was a lot of 'hate' against Microsoft, for announcing 2 new Xbox One versions, one available in a few months and another available in 18 months... but now it seems to me that they did the right move. People who wanted 4k content (not games) waited for the One S, and now there is a lot of pressure on the PS4 Neo because it will not be as powerful as the Scorpio, I can see a lot of people just skipping Neo and waiting for the Scorpio, no matter how powerful it will be.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
So? That explains the added box space, now about that cooling solution
Canned Kaz Hirai breath, done.
shinobi602
Member
Out of curiosity, what's impossible about it?
Leyasu
Banned
Ready to uprender..
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
I think you may have some viewpoints I respectfully don't agree with.
Neo is under no pressure to be competitive with Scorpio in my opinion. That isn't what it is being built to do. It is more of a bump to the PS4 power before PS5 would hit sometime down the road. What does have some pressure to do in the minds of most people is perform a decent but better than Vanilla PS4/Slim and possibly deliver some 4K experiences as well either via some games and media.
Edit: people with a pretty strong PC won't want Scorpio in all likelihood, people without a pretty strong PC might go for it depending on costs.
There is a very limited amount of people who bought the XB1S based only on its 4K capabilities. And those people who want a stronger PS4 with 4K capabilities are not going skip it in favor of the Scorpio, because Scorpio is not a PS4 with 4K capabilities.
Nobody said it was impossible Shinobi, only that double GPU's makes no sense in a console form factor and introduces more complication to the design than neccesary. Its the same dumb nonsense perpetuated before the PS4 and XB1 were launched
Crimson_Gold
Member
Avatar QUOTE. You've just set the T-Rex free
Dredd97
Member
by the time Scorpio launches there will be what? 70m PS4 sales? sorry no, nobody is going to wait for the scorpio, sure peeps will pick one up, but as for this generation goes? it's dead man walking (I don't mean that in a negative way, just that it's not going to change anything this generation) IMO MS should has just called it xbox 4 and had done with it.
Impossible is a strong word, but multiple GPUs have been an expensive kludge that only works at when they have their own memory bus to dedicated memory. Bus contention for a shared pool would pretty much negate any benefits, giving you only complexity, heat, and added cost for your trouble.
So unless the claim is that Neo really is two consoles stacked on one another, it doesn't make a lick of sense. The recently uncovered patent makes it 100% clear that base mode is implemented with the new APU and some clock trickery. Dev kits had leaked specs that make it clear there's one APU. Unless everything has been redesigned in the last few months it's not happening.
No, if I'm going to buy into a wild theory that's at least vaguely workable it's this: you can buy two PS4 Neos and chain them together for an 8.4TF monster. Each APU has its own dedicated pool of memory. Not everyone has to bear the burden of the extra cost. The Scorpio announcement gets countered unexpectedly early. It's a win all around and I'm putting the odds at 1-in-50. I doubt they'd be crazy enough to do it, but who knows?
Omnistalgic
Member
I think that's pretty much what it is though...My opinion of course...but I see the two strategies differently.
Project Scorpio is a reset. X1 lost market share, and instead of asking consumers to jump on board a new console from MS, they are allowing the previous console to string along. X1s is basically b/c for Scropio, and PC is an extension of their ecosystem. Scorpio is the next Xbox in my eyes, not a highend X1
Neo is a highend PS4 and is probably designed to increase the duration of the gen, not to start some new incremental console upgrade trend. As mentioned in this thread, it is a bandaid to current development woes, and should allow smaller devs more tools to play around with, albeit more work, while bigger dev teams can take out less of the cool stuff they designed when actually porting things over to console. First party teams only working on it has even more at their disposal. PS5 will be another big jump, and won't be cross compatible.
I'm not sure if both will be successful, but I can say that Sony's plan seems to be focused more on the overall PS4 audience vs. MS.
- VR is not exclusive to Neo
- Sony has a much larger user base
- Neo is not a full gen leap over PS4
- Goals is to sit "alongside" PS4
MS basically has to say "no one gets left behind" because that's exactly what's happening if devs are really taking advantage of the specs.
OfTheOverflow
Member
I could be incorrect, but I believe Microsoft views it differently. For now, at least, it's a 4K Xbox One with VR.
In that respect it's not much different to Neo. Where they diverge, however, is that MS has signaled that they may not have hard generational resets. So at some point in the future they might new software generation that uses Scorpio as its baseline. Sony has signaled they still foresee distinct generations.
But for some initial period (a year? two years? three?), at least, it's 'just' going to be a Xbox One. Maybe later it will also be compatible with a new software generation, though by that time it's not hard to imagine newer hardware being available again.
I agree with almost everything you said. And they should say that but they can't say that.
IIRC they were pretty shady about VR with Scorpio. A thin line between there will be exclusive VR games for Scorpio or if it will be available to all but enhanced for Scorpio.
APU is basically the Cell & everyone is crying about the weak CPU so tell me why it's dumb nonsense to have PS4 APU + 36CU GPU?
You have your PS4 base mode , you have your better CPU that's not Zen , it make some sense of the SLI rumor , it make some sense of why Neo need a bigger PSU & cooling for a 4.2TF GPU & Jaguar CPU & it also make some sense of how a 4.2TF GPU can do 4K PS4 games.
In the end I don't think anyone truly believe the forward compatibility would last indefinuitely. If we take MS at their word, then they just had to retire XB1 when most XB1 consumers had switched to Scorpio. How long XB1 would still run new games would depend on how long the customers hold out on upgrading.
And of course, the big part would be price. Yes, Scorpio would be a serious upgrade. But remember that many people have held out on buying a PS4 even up to now and is only considering it because the Slim would push the price down. The old gen dies hard.
Omnistalgic
Member
i thought that a first too. But Scorpio is coming out next year, likely tail end of next year. Are they going to release another console in 2019? Seems too short IMO and you lose the benefits of consoles having the same specs if you keep reiterating every couple years on hardware.
Except...in my case...being a PS360Wii owner last gen...and then MS flubbing the Xbone launch so hardcore, I've been a PS4 only owner up to this point, and have become heavily invested in their ecosystem...
NOW...with the console space seemingly moving towards the rest of the electronics markets with these mid gen refreshes.i ta becoming less likely I'll be a multi console owner again...it steers me towards the Neo, and eventually the PS5...
The logic of skipping Neo for the more powerful Scorpio is a spiral...if I'm going to wait that long for new hardware, what's another couple years to wait for the PS5? Which will inevitably be vastly superior to Scorpio...
Unknown?
Member
I'd love if Mark Cerny came to show it off again!
Obliterator
Member
A lot is really riding on this reveal for me. I've been mostly PS4 this entire generation but after playing the Battlefield 1 Beta on both my PS4 and my PC its pretty clear the gap is getting pretty large again. Battlefield has a ton of fps drops on PS4 while only being 900p.
I've always preferred console gaming over PC in general even though I have a great rig but the gap in quality on games is getting bigger. I really hope NEO blows me away because if not I'll probably switch my multiplat games over to PC for the rest of the generation
I've always preferred console gaming over PC in general even though I have a great rig but the gap in quality on games is getting bigger. I really hope NEO blows me away because if not I'll probably switch my multiplat games over to PC for the rest of the generation
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Yes, but Battlefront has like zero destruction and no 64 player mode.
I'm not sure if we're talking at cross purposes here, but I was addressing the idea that Scorpio is 'a reset'. By what MS has said, it's not. It's an Xbox One. (VR doesn't fall under that characterisation as they view it as a different platform)
Since you raised the point though, yeah, I could see another box 2 years after Scorpio. Certainly 3. In fact its possible Microsoft's platform will look very different by then in terms of hardware. If they really do converge on PC, for example, Xbox may become a platform that is rather agnostic towards spec, at least within a defined range. Their dev ethos is already heading in that direction.
For now though, Xbox One is a fixed minimum that must be supported in this platform. I don't imagine they're going to ditch that for at least a year after Scorpio, if not two. So for all intents and purposes in that period, it'll be a higher res Xbox One with a side of VR.
BRSxIgnition
Member
Are we expecting the light strip at the front to be RGB like the rainbow strip on the invitation?
I think that would be a cool touch.
I think that would be a cool touch.
No, that'd be dumb.
There are really only two ways that would push the switch that makes Scorpio the main console. Scorpio either becomes a massive hit and took over the Xbox share of customers faster than they predicted, or if PS5 came out earlier than anyone suspects.
PS5 is almost certainly not due for at least 3 years, so I don't think it would be a real factor. More likely MS would push the switch when they release the Scorpio S, or alternately after a major price drop of the base Scorpio.
BF1 will likely improve in framerate, DICE is known for last minute optimizations, but Conquest will likely not approach Battlefront levels of smooth. Rush is almost there though so the smaller modes and campaign will probably run pretty well on the standard PS4.
wapplew
Member
Scorpio is not reset, is move toward PC like business model.
MS want to grow market share by never reset again. Say Xbox family (Xbox one, Scorpio, Scorpio 2 etc) sold 10-15m per year, it will have 60m-70m install base by the year 2019.
Sure, by that time Xbox one might not hit some AAA games minimum requirement, but for smaller or indie titles, 70m install base is there.
For publisher, Xbox family means 40-70m install base ready for them to reach at any point.
AltissimaRatio
Banned
Looks like you Guys now assimilate my Idea with the dual APUs..
~30Pages ago.. :
my hopes for a doubled APU are still there, regardless all the logic reasons against it
or 8.4TF if my wild double APU Theory turnes out to be true.
i dont see a beefed up cooling solution and bigger PSU are pushing the weight to 4,5kg...
Must be something else..
Dont forget in 2013 Sony doubled something else and everyone said its crazy that time..
i still dont see why it would be so unrealistic.. with the shrink theres less watts\ hz .
And on that Devkit Arguement:
I think Sony could first deliver a single APU devkit and develop it further and maybe double the APU. They only need to watch out that the double APU can act as one if older code runs on it ..
and another thing:
if they realy got by surprise by Scorpie Specs in that late Phase of development, of course the could not alter the APU itself. But just double things is a in comparision easy way, i think. That and more Hz of course..
BRSxIgnition
Member
I'm not saying it would always be a rainbow strip, but rather capable of displaying many different colours.
Negotiator
Member
Gran Turismo 5 supported a weird PS3 chain mode for bigger resolutions/multi-screen setups, IIRC. Still don't like it though.
Negotiator
Member
The OG PS4 LED bar has been RGB-ready since day 1.
Move & DS4 controllers use the same LED technology.
24-bit RGB LED = 16 million colors
I'd love it if they allowed us to customize the LED color.
I'm sure it can already do that now.
The OG PS4 LED bar has been RGB-ready since day 1.
Move & DS4 controllers use the same LED technology.
24-bit RGB LED = 16 million colors
I'd love it if they allowed us to customize the LED color.
You can already on PC, using DS4 tools. They just need to give this option to us
But... it's not likely. It shows what user is using it and some games use that color, like Diablo 3. It would also result in a lot of users having the same color.
disco potato
Member
MS is PCfying the XBOX. The hardware and peripheral prototypes they've been sourcing out show that. A modular xbox wouldn't surprise me.
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