I'd like to see some more equivalent comparisons in the future. I'm not really sure what internal resolution the Pro is rendering at pre-4k upscale (1527p?) but a comparison between a rig with rx480 at an appropriate resolution vs. the Pro would be neat. Hopefully we see some implementation of checkerboard rendering in future PC games/drivers apart from Rainbow 6.
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Digital Foundry: Rise of the Tomb Raider PS4 Pro vs PC 4K
- Thread starter jett
- Start date
Kamina
Golden Boy
Come on. You know full and well what he was trying to say: a fully operational pc, including software and input devices.
His point was that whenever there is a "show me a PC with PS4 power for 400"-topic, many are just calculating PCs with base parts like CPU, GPU, motherboard, housing,..., but conveniantely "forget" input devices and operating systems while still calling the pc they claculated "PS4 Destroyer" or something.
cheezcake
Member
You seem to be taking this a tad personally, also problems with PC elitism on gaf lol
ViolentP
Member
PC hardware fluctuates much more than consoles. It's a fact that cannot be circumvented when making this comparison.
Vital Tundra
Member
Pretty much this. Good god that looks bad.
That's why I'm interested in seeing the 1080p mode. If it doesn't look exactly like PC maxed, then what the hell?
Equanimity
Member
PC will always brute force better graphics but look how close this comparison is:
PS4 Pro is a £350 console. You're not going to get anything close to that in the PC space for even £450.
PS4 Pro is a £350 console. You're not going to get anything close to that in the PC space for even £450.
Nobody is surprised. But rendering at sub-4K and upressing should be able to help Sony close the gap between it's PS4 Pro and true 4K... however that gap seems just as wide as ever.
family_guy
Member
I think if you put a game optimized for the PS4 Pro up against that build, the Pro version would look better. The spec sheet doesn't paint the whole picture.
Pretty much, I see a lot of people shitting on the PS4 Pro version - I'm glad to be oblivious to all the little details, as a whole it looks fantastic to me, excited to run through it in 4K mode.
ViolentP
Member
Listen, I get where you're coming from and I don't disagree with you. I would easily have made the assumption myself if it weren't for his explicit use of words in his request. It was that which prevented me from making the assumption and instead probe the level of detail he was asking for. I didn't address him to start an argument, I wanted to provide him what he was asking for. But what he asked for wasn't what he was asking for.
4K is a resolution not a quality setting, every PC is not going to be running this game on the vary high setting in 4K.
Can you give me a MSRP breakdown of the parts listed, because it looks like a partpicker-type listing to me.
And why be disingenuous (if not dishonest) about it? Obviously there won't be used PS4pros until a while after its release, but again are you implying there won't be used PS4pros, or that it will not be possible to find it discounted at some occasions?
As a PC Gamer myself, it's really infuriating to see the obfuscations and manipulations repeatedly done in such debates.
Even at a much higher price, PC gaming has a space due to its versatility and power-for-price basis.
There is no need to pretend it can do $1000+ level work at $600, just to pretend that in Every-Single-Case-And-Situation a PC is a better choice than a console, be it due to budget, environmental preference or convenience.
MS and Sony order parts by the millions. Power won't be the name of the game (particularly over time, but this is also why the Pro now exists), but entry level price and convenience, for the mass market.
PC and Consoles Can co exist, as they have done and will continue to, each with their pros and cons (and personally I am a best of both worlds person).
I think some people weren't paying attention to what they were actually getting with his machine and are now expressing faux outrage. Similar to the absence of a 4k blu-ray player.
Lister
Banned
It should come very close, since the 480 can do it at 60 FPS at 1080p, but the 480 is more powerful than the PS4 Pro.
Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule
Member
To me this is a bigger difference than the one shown in the OP. The missing fire and haze effects the atmosphere of that scene/part of the game.
I wonder how the 'bells and whistles' and 60fps mode hold up. Bells and whistles mode should at least be a match for the 4K pc version outside of IQ and VXAO.
They downgraded that part a little bit even compared to the xbox one version of the game.
this is what the xbo version looks like
But you will be playing it on 4K TV, it will be pretty hard not to see everything on the screen.
We're blaming the consumers about being annoyed about the lack of a 4k blu-ray player now?
I don't see why Sony hires PR when their hardcore fans do it enough for them lol.
Lister
Banned
Yes it does. We ar eno longer in the days of DX9. Performance form the GPU on modenr GPU's with modern API's is pretty much the same... hell looking purely at data in the real world, it's often BETTER on PC for some reason.
CPU performance is still a little bit worse, but when even i3's blow the PS4 Pros CPU out of the water, who cares?
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
I don't really agree that this website has a problem with PC elitism. Even in this thread it's just a lot of "hey, that looks pretty bad side by side". The only person who lost their cool is you.
shinobi602
Member
You guys are really harping on that one ground texture huh?
Everything else in the video seemed to compare favorably and the DF guys were thoroughly impressed with the game at the PS Meeting from what I gathered.
Everything else in the video seemed to compare favorably and the DF guys were thoroughly impressed with the game at the PS Meeting from what I gathered.
Does the PS4 Pro use the same textures no matter what? The same missing effects, etc?
If the PS4 is on a 1080p tv would it still look muddled?
The difference between using a 1080p and 4k tv on a PS4 Pro just the resolution?
Would a 1440p high settings on PC still look a whole of a lot better than the 4k PS4 Pro version? Especially since you are so close to the screen anyway?
If the PS4 is on a 1080p tv would it still look muddled?
The difference between using a 1080p and 4k tv on a PS4 Pro just the resolution?
Would a 1440p high settings on PC still look a whole of a lot better than the 4k PS4 Pro version? Especially since you are so close to the screen anyway?
Lister
Banned
It's not jus that one ground texture, no.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Lol.
I'm keeping my launch PS4, thanks.
Every scene looked softer than the PC version. It's ok for a $400 machine, of course... but I don't really think that it is worth the investment, specially if you consider that you'll need a very expensive 4K TV set with HDR 10 support to appreciate those 'upgrades'.
I'm keeping my launch PS4, thanks.
Every scene looked softer than the PC version. It's ok for a $400 machine, of course... but I don't really think that it is worth the investment, specially if you consider that you'll need a very expensive 4K TV set with HDR 10 support to appreciate those 'upgrades'.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Gamespot has just done one, it cost more than $500 though lol
I think the problem is people are thinking Sonys comment means this is in direct competition with the highest end PC when it's not, to a lot of people what the PS4Pro offers is out of reach for most with PC.
When doing comparisons we should not be expecting it to match PC 4K ultra.
And you shouldn't downplay it because it doesn't.
You originally responded to me saying that a $400 PC could outperform the PS4 Pro. The one example you posted was more expensive, so I think that's what's fueling the flames here.
Threads like these frustrate me only because people can't seem to understand why someone would play on one system or the other. Like they can't fathom why someone would pay for online, but ignore all of the great exclusive games that aren't available on the other platform, or ignore good sales on console (they do exist (maybe not on Nintendo platforms though), even for regular Steam Sale and PC bundle buyers). On the flipside, the same thing annoys me about console folks who discredit PC because it's somehow too hard, assume they can't play on a couch, or whatnot.
My stance has always been to just play on what you want and have fun with it... if that's one system, fine. If that's all systems, fine. But this tendency to want to justify superiority or tear down platforms that you personally don't support? It makes zero sense to me and just comes off as immature internet mudslinging.
shinobi602
Member
The first page is full of comments that answered within a minute of the thread going up, which makes me think they didn't watch the whole video before commenting.
In any case, things like lighting missing in one scene or a bit more aliasing from light shafts isn't enough for a "omg that looks so bad" response. To me anyway.
I think saying "Comparable" is selling the gap quite short. Look at the other pictures posted, the reprojected 4K is CLEARLY smudgier than native 4K.
But then again, since people sit 50 feet away from the TV, they won't notice the difference. Just like FPS.
Why is this even a question. The knee jerk reactions are certainly your own. PC gaming does not revolve around the same limitations and concepts that are seen on consoles.
The person you are replying to is absolutely right. It is one of many possibilities open to those who have an existing system and a perfectly valid option. These arguments are absolutely meaningless, to shift everyone to the same frame of reference that suits you and buying from scratch. In the PC space, it makes more sense to invest a bit more money than the bare minimum to be supportive of the every evolving nature of applications, and supportive of future upgrade paths - whether a person want to upgrade once every 8 years, 3 years or whatever else they feel like.
Similarly the PC space is dependant on all users always being on some sort of benchmark with a PS4 or PS4 Pro. The games are the important component here. As above, remasters are not a requirement. If someone wants (as I did) they can use a far lower end system to play games at a quality they are comfortable with, and an upgraded system or entirely new one can be capable of utilising the games far better, again within whatever quality preference a user might have and the system is capable of.
The 4K images are the direct point of comparison and DF are looking at it objectively enough. The cropping isn't neccessary to see the difference. Of course PS4 Pro is not going to come close in the 4K mode that isn't even rendering at 4K and isn't using the same quality / fidelity as the PC version anyway. That doesn't mean the conversation is then mute for people to discuss either platform and their options
They downgraded that part a little bit even compared to the xbox one version of the game.
this is what the xbo version looks like
See, this is actually a more valuable comparison I think. People should see what type of concessions are being made compared to the standard console versions. Ideally the game would have the same settings but just run at a higher resolution on the Pro (when in 4K mode). I would think this is the type of stuff that will be of more immediate concern to people.
Like, imagine a scenario where the game looks better on the standard PS4 because it's running at 1080p compared to the 4K version (as far as added effects and stuff), BUT you have a 1080p TV and the Pro, and the game defaults to the Pro mode on a 1080p TV where it just takes the 4K version but downsamples it to 1080p, thereby giving you a worse looking 1080p version albeit with less aliasing. Tomb Raider won't have that problem theoretically, because it'll have several quality settings for the Pro version, but not all games will have that much care put into it.
The game still has two months of pure technical work to be done before launch and no other changes are being made to the game because it is already complete. Textures are likely not going to change due to RAM limitations but some of the lighting inconsistencies I expect to be addressed.
Dictator93
Member
This title makes me wonder in general how devs are going to deal with RAM and VRAM usage on the PS4pro. It has the same amount of avilable ram as base PS4, but now will have much fatter framebuffers.
PS4pro has on average (presumably) probably about 3-3.5 GB of avilable ram to dedicate to GPU resources. Far less than something like a 980Ti, 1070, or RX 480.
PS4pro has on average (presumably) probably about 3-3.5 GB of avilable ram to dedicate to GPU resources. Far less than something like a 980Ti, 1070, or RX 480.
In direct comparison is does look really bad, but directly comparing a 4k capable PC to a sub 4-k capable PS4 Pro upressing to 4k is disingenuous and I think not the point of the video.
My main take away is the conceits that have been made to get RotR running at whatever sub-4k resolution they have it running at, making it look worse in some instances than even the XBO version of the game, but for the most part making it look like the moderate increase in graphical capability that the is the PS4 Pro.
Obviously this isn't the final release so things can change. In this specific case I don't really care, since I already 100%'d the game on PC ages ago, but as someone who has the Pro pre-ordered I'm still running through all the scenarios in my head.
PeterLegend
Member
It's ok, my 1080p tv will be enjoying the PS4 Pro
infinityBCRT
Member
The good news: there probably won't be a push to 8k. The next big jump after Scorpio should be able to handle 60fps for most games (and rendering tricks/advancements can make it possible on Scorpio). I saw 4K in person and I stood at the closest distance I'd play a game at. Then I walked closer and was still able to see more detail. And this was with glasses on. 8k won't make a difference for gaming at all. Unless we're talking about VR panels.
well if you bother to watch the video... no comparison shot put by gaffer in this thread don't gives you the whole picture.
and The fact that OP put those comparison shot and nothing else already quite telling what he wants the narrative to be and what type of person would took the bait.
It's a great value for the price and should satisfied most people. Insecurities come from both sides and don't denied it.
I think you've completely misunderstood my point. I'm not in any way, form or fashion blaming the consumer for being annoyed that the Pro doesn't feature a 4k blu-ray player. I just find it comical that people are pre-ordering the console without taking 5 minutes to even bother researching what the hardware comes with and is capable of displaying.
We've known everything about the Pro for a week, but there's a new crop of angry people every day who don't seem to have any idea what it is they've actually purchased.
Herp Derpington
Member
If you are interested in pc gaming you most likely already own a gaming pc and can just upgrade parts. If not you already know you're investing for more than just games so this seems a silly statement to make. Even if I'm spending twice as much on a pc so what? I get more for it too. Factor in the cheaper cost of games on a pc, the free online, and other intangibles and it's not as easy as just saying "can't get this performance for the dollar on pc". In fact I could turn it around and ask you to provide me with a comparable value in console gaming to a pc over a 5 year stretch. The costs are always there with whatever you buy you either just pay up front or over time.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
PS4 vs PC = meh yeah the difference isn't that big.
PS4 vs Xbone = Lmao get shit on Xbone, more grass on ps4.
These threads always bring out the crazies.
amstradcpc
Member
This.If so Pro is a step back for not 4K users.Double the GPU for getting even worse graphics...Sony should make mandatory a native 1080p version in the pro with whether better frame rate or better graphics.
As i see it the tentation can be strong for devs to leave these full hd users with the downsampled 4k image output, as is the easier and cheaper way to get your Pro mode fulfilled.
Oddvintagechap
Member
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Key words: "for what it's trying to do"
lol obviously it looks like a mess but as the first attempt I have seen to get something running at decent fps at "4K" with not everything on lower than lowest on a console it's a solid effort.
Dictator93
Member
It is not actually a cut and dry thing. If certain effects internal resolution scale with output resolution (SSR, AO, bloom, bokeh), then higher resolution = higher internal effect resolution and less flickering, edges, etc.. in those effects.
Good examples of that can be found among consoles releases even, Driveclub in photomode or those press release shots of Detroit.