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Xbox Scorpio Pricing Discussion
- Thread starter BeforeU
- Start date
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Then it isn't people overthinking the word premium, it's someone using the word incorrectly.
PeterLegend
Member
Most of the Scorpios will be sold by Amazon, Bestbuy, Target and Walmart, not the Microsoft Store.
If that is the case then there needs to be margin to work with if you're MS.
If the Cost of Goods is around $375 and you're selling at $400 you're eating a loss or breaking even. The days of consoles being sold at a lost are long gone.
I'm predicting $450 for a 1TB and $500 for a 2TB.
PS4 Pro will drop to $350 and there will be a $100 price difference between the Pro and Scorpio.
If that is the case then there needs to be margin to work with if you're MS.
If the Cost of Goods is around $375 and you're selling at $400 you're eating a loss or breaking even. The days of consoles being sold at a lost are long gone.
I'm predicting $450 for a 1TB and $500 for a 2TB.
PS4 Pro will drop to $350 and there will be a $100 price difference between the Pro and Scorpio.
Adam_Roman
Member
As I've said for the past several months, this has to be $499 or higher. I don't get how so many people think this thing will simultaneously be considerably more powerful than the PS4 Pro, and be a similar price. The Xbox division doesn't have a history of making Microsoft loads of money like PlayStation does for Sony. Selling a new high-powered system that appeals to premium gamers at a loss would be an absolutely dumb decision.
Deputy Moonman
Member
I was daydreaming about E3.
Unprecedented...
$349.99 Limited 500 SKU. They are will to loose money on this but will establish the MS that steamrolled with the 360.
$399.99 is more logical and satisfies the new console price point we have become accustomed to. Gives a chance for some power hoppers and new comers to pick up the console. This is couple months savings to a couple paychecks territory.
$499.99 confirms that MS is doubling down of it's demographic. They know TimDog and them will pick this console up regardless and they will cement these gamers into their ecosystem.
Unprecedented...
$349.99 Limited 500 SKU. They are will to loose money on this but will establish the MS that steamrolled with the 360.
$399.99 is more logical and satisfies the new console price point we have become accustomed to. Gives a chance for some power hoppers and new comers to pick up the console. This is couple months savings to a couple paychecks territory.
$499.99 confirms that MS is doubling down of it's demographic. They know TimDog and them will pick this console up regardless and they will cement these gamers into their ecosystem.
Yeah it dropped on average of what, maybe $30? They didn't add 4GB of memory, made the memory interface larger, and whatever customizations MS did to the chip.
I don't think those changes will result in such an expensive APU that takes MS to a place where they'll need to charge $499. I just don't see it.
Not those changes alone, but add on more expensive cooling, a larger overall APU, and other parts and it will easily cost between $449-$499.
Goose_Se7en
Banned
I trust that MS will take that hit and sell the console at $399.99.
Again, I don't see it, not with the economies of scale Microsoft can bring to bear. It's not like they're buying an expensive cooling solution from a third party, it's essentially metalwork and a sealed circuit. They have a 4K UHD drive in a device I could pick up from amazon for $250, so that's not going to be a factor either.
If they price it at $449-499 it's because they want to milk the folks they know are dead set on the machine already and they want that 'halo' (excuse the pun!) device at the top of their range.
I still say the specs justify $399. I don't think any of the thing you bring up take this beyond that in late 2017.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
They can do a $499 'Day One Edition' bundle to milk the hardcore at launch. With a bigger HDD and digital code packed in. Plus a nice emblem on the controller or something.
Standard SKU - $399
Standard SKU - $399
Hawk269
Member
I would not mind if MS offered a high-end premium only available through MS that contained an internal 2tb SSD and packed with a Elite Controller. Depending on the base price of the regular consumer version, it could be something that if they offered were sell to those that really want that premium offering of having a 2tb SSD and Elite controller. Another thought is just a premium one that has a 2tb SSD without the Elite, since I would guess like me, most people wanting a premium controller already bought an Elite controller. But something like this I would not be opposed to.
My prediction for a 1tb Scorpio is $449-$499 with a game and like the Xbox One S a 2TB version being made available as well.
My prediction for a 1tb Scorpio is $449-$499 with a game and like the Xbox One S a 2TB version being made available as well.
Hawk269
Member
Yeah, I was thinking back to the Xbox One S release and how the 2tb version came out first. For Scorpio I would hope that a Day One Edition with 2tb and the regular be out at the same time.
They haven't taken a hit this generation, why would they start now?
So basically you're dead set on your opinion, regardless of the facts, and are only convinced they'll price the console higher than $299 to price gouge? Got it.
I think Microsoft can spring a surprise on the pricing front by going in at $399. It all really depends on how they see Scorpio as an investment towards the next gen Xbox or just salvaging the current generation. If it's all about the next gen Xbox then they dont need to price it aggressively and keep it as "premium" SKU like the Surface. Low volume, higher profit and higher brand loyalty. If they want to salvage the current generation then they will price it aggressively and even with that I dont see how they can salvage it beyond a few select markets/seasons.
It'll be very interesting to see their approach come this Fall.
It'll be very interesting to see their approach come this Fall.
wapplew
Member
$599 ultimate edition, 7 days earlier.
If I had to bet on a price, I'd probably say $500. As much as I would like to say $400, I doubt it is going to be for that price if the Scorpio is going to be so high end in comparison to the xbox one.
If it goes for 599 US Dollars, you might have some people not only making comparisons to the PS3, but it is going to be rather tricky to have people buy it (especially considering the PS4 Pro is $399. It might be doubtful for people to shell out an extra $200 for a console).
If it goes for 599 US Dollars, you might have some people not only making comparisons to the PS3, but it is going to be rather tricky to have people buy it (especially considering the PS4 Pro is $399. It might be doubtful for people to shell out an extra $200 for a console).
That would be $399 ,and the "facts" you're presenting are your own analysis as no-one outside MS and AMD have the figures. Unless you claim to have solid facts on how much exactly these parts are costing MS?
Dee Dah Dave
Member
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
I still believe $400 for 1TB and $500 for 2TB.
Papacheeks
Banned
Where are u basing that off of? They sold couple seasons in a row their system heavily discounted with new first party software. They actually lost money. And the division itself is not 100% profitable. Even shinobi talked about how spending/budgets were super tight. That becomes a thing if your division isn't profitable. Also original Xbox had a IR blaster HDMI pass through, and esram. Shit was not giving them high margins.
$100 bucks for 1 extra TB sounds abit much tho.
I don't understand the >$400 comments at all.
Here are the facts as I see them:
1. The Xbox team reads this forum
2. The Scorpio is targeting gaming enthusiasts
3. This forum is full of gaming enthusiasts
4. We set the price
Xbox team, please hear me. I will NOT pay more than $399 for the Scorpio. If you or your leadership is planning on pricing this thing >$400, then you are wasting your time and you are insulting your fans. I bought the original Xbox One for $500 on day one. I bought a second Xbox and a Xbox One S. I bought stuff from you all three times over. So now I have some expectations that you all have to meet.
I was promised support for the Kinect, but you folded under pressure instead of providing incentives for people to buy into it. Where was the QoL stuff? Why wasn't voice integration better prioritized? Where were the Kinect apps? Why was the kinect port removed from the One S?! I need an adapter and a separate power outlet? That's my reward for buying your bullshit?
I currently own 200+ games across 360 and One. I've been subscribed to Xbox Live for 9 or 10 years. You all have to bring it with the Scorpio release. Clear the slate and make Live worth a damn. Let me resell or trade or share my digital games as a gold subscriber. Do something meaningful instead of all these empty promises and transparent cash grabs (Live). Invest in ideas and culture instead of franchises and "partnerships".
I'm a paying subscriber to your service! Stop advertising to me! Let me customize my dashboard. I will still buy stuff without you having to remind me. Let me "favorite" or "wish list" items on the Xbox store.
There's more that I want to touch on, but I'll leave it here for now. Do not price the Scorpio high and hope to sell it on promises; like you did with the One. Focus on people like me, who have disposable income and no time for bullshit. Treat every Xbox owner like an adult, cultivate a culture of creativity and customization, and operate with a reasonable amount of transparency. If you do these things, then you will be rewarded in this community with good will (and money of course) and inspire us to evangelize your product because it will actually be worthy of praise.
Here are the facts as I see them:
1. The Xbox team reads this forum
2. The Scorpio is targeting gaming enthusiasts
3. This forum is full of gaming enthusiasts
4. We set the price
Xbox team, please hear me. I will NOT pay more than $399 for the Scorpio. If you or your leadership is planning on pricing this thing >$400, then you are wasting your time and you are insulting your fans. I bought the original Xbox One for $500 on day one. I bought a second Xbox and a Xbox One S. I bought stuff from you all three times over. So now I have some expectations that you all have to meet.
I was promised support for the Kinect, but you folded under pressure instead of providing incentives for people to buy into it. Where was the QoL stuff? Why wasn't voice integration better prioritized? Where were the Kinect apps? Why was the kinect port removed from the One S?! I need an adapter and a separate power outlet? That's my reward for buying your bullshit?
I currently own 200+ games across 360 and One. I've been subscribed to Xbox Live for 9 or 10 years. You all have to bring it with the Scorpio release. Clear the slate and make Live worth a damn. Let me resell or trade or share my digital games as a gold subscriber. Do something meaningful instead of all these empty promises and transparent cash grabs (Live). Invest in ideas and culture instead of franchises and "partnerships".
I'm a paying subscriber to your service! Stop advertising to me! Let me customize my dashboard. I will still buy stuff without you having to remind me. Let me "favorite" or "wish list" items on the Xbox store.
There's more that I want to touch on, but I'll leave it here for now. Do not price the Scorpio high and hope to sell it on promises; like you did with the One. Focus on people like me, who have disposable income and no time for bullshit. Treat every Xbox owner like an adult, cultivate a culture of creativity and customization, and operate with a reasonable amount of transparency. If you do these things, then you will be rewarded in this community with good will (and money of course) and inspire us to evangelize your product because it will actually be worthy of praise.
Sorry, facts was probably the wrong word, I just meant how hardware typically drops in price. There's no reason to think that a system that would cost $500+ in 2016 would drop to $399 in 2017.
I thought both MS and Sony were committed to not selling at a loss this gen and any financial issues in MS' game division were due to poor system and/or game sales. Guessing this isn't the case? Admittedly, I pay more attention to the tech than sales of these systems. Still doesn't make sense for MS to take a loss on a niche product IMO.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I'm now starting to think it really will be $499.
Haha, man I love you, you are so funny! Classic "I am the customer! I am the king! I demand that you do as I say" bullshit.
Sure some guys over at MS might read this, but oh boy don't expect them to give a shit! They will pretend to, but that's PR, they have to. lol
This is not a non-profit organization. They won't sell it at a loss, at 399. There is no benefit in selling it at 399. This is a mid-gen upgrade, not a new generation, that's what most people forget. If the console costs less to make than 400 then it "might" sell for 399, but IMO I think the console costs more to make. The PS4 Pro is not the main selling PS4 console neither will the Scorpio be the main selling xbone. It's there, but most people won't buy it.
I don't really understand why people think of microsoft as a person or a group of people that "care". There might be people within the company that do care, but they are not the ones to decide things. Microsoft and any other company will try to rob you off as much money as possible with any means they can use. The only time that it doesn't work is when they get bad PR. Everyone remembers their 180 at the start of the generation. That didn't happen, because they care, for fucks sake. That happened, because of the huge shitstorm they got. Don't get me wrong, Sony is the same, but they are to some degree smarter. They are smart enough to predict what would get them a shitstorm, they have learned from threir mistakes, but not because they "care".
I think MS will price it at 499 or 599 and adapt to the market/reactions. On the scorpio release Sony will sell the PS4 at 199 and the Pro at 299. Soon after it might look like this:
199 PS4(Maybe Super Slim ), XBONE Standard
299 PS4 Pro(maybe Pro Slim)
399 XBONE Scorpio *second year*
499 XBONE Scorpio *first year*
Deputy Moonman
Member
Wow everyone is so confident that the PS4 Pro will be reduced in price. I'm not so sure. I certainly don't think it will go down to $299. Maybe $350. I still think $450-$500 is what Scorpio will sell for, but I'd love to be wrong on that and have it be lower. While everyone keeps having their, "no way it sells for that high or low" feelings, I think it is true that any higher than $500 for Scorpio would effectively be pointless. Even for people that want to spend a bunch of money on it, $550-600 is simply too much for any consumer for what everyone keeps calling a "mid-gen" upgrade. Personally, I still think MS is moving forward with the next gen with Scorpio. The increase in graphical performance, for a new gen console, does not have to be that high for Scorpio since MS is moving away from mainline generation releases of consoles and toward shorter console life spans. I'm cautiously optimistic that we're going to be pleasantly surprised with what Scorpio can put out game-wise. This is true especially given that with each new console, the noticeable increase in graphics from previous consoles is less and less.
I don't know why but I think they'll also unveil a refined Xbox Elite pad and pack it in as an option.
Normal : $499
Elite ver: $599 (with refined X Elite Controller​
$499 for a dedicated native 4k gaming box for you shiney new 4k tv (experts feel it'll be about this price) is absolutely fine, leaves them with room to play with later on.
Normal : $499
Elite ver: $599 (with refined X Elite Controller​
$499 for a dedicated native 4k gaming box for you shiney new 4k tv (experts feel it'll be about this price) is absolutely fine, leaves them with room to play with later on.
Why? The SOC is about the same size as the pro. We know it is 15 extra dollars for the uhd br drive. The cooling and extra ram is not costing 85. I think it probably costs 50 more to manufacture at most. Sony makes money on each pro. So MS loses a few dollars to sell to gamers who buy most games and accessories. They come out at 499 they risk being a 150 more during the holiday season. It needs to be 399 period and nothing in it is so cutting edge to increase the cost by 100-150 dollars.
You don't know that, we do know it's a system only available on high end expensive cards. Also that risk of being $150 more doesn't seem like one, it's the best gaming console for your 4k TV , that alone takes the sting out of the price imo
I wouldn't be surprised by this at all. I could see a standard SKU coming during January to help the inevitable console sale drop from December to January.
So I think we may be thinking of this from the wrong angle. We're thinking Xbox is making Scorpio as their answer to PS4 / PS4 Pro. But if you recall the PS4 Pro was built in part as an answer to the folks who tend to jump from console to PC mid-generation.
So if we think of Scorpio as competing instead with PC, then an all-in-one 4K machine priced at $599 or even $799 would still look pretty reasonable.
From one perspective that seems crazy, but from another it seems perfectly in line with what Microsoft has been saying leading up to this point.
Edit: And now I see some similar thoughts in this article.
So if we think of Scorpio as competing instead with PC, then an all-in-one 4K machine priced at $599 or even $799 would still look pretty reasonable.
From one perspective that seems crazy, but from another it seems perfectly in line with what Microsoft has been saying leading up to this point.
Edit: And now I see some similar thoughts in this article.
I'm disappointed your take away from my post is that I'm making demands. When I really think about it, I get why that's what you took from my comment, but my intention was to get my frustrations, hopes and expectations to the Xbox team while they are paying attention.
From what I can tell, the Scorpio is a response to the demands of the enthusiasts on this board over the years since the One launched. So I don't see why making more meaningful demands would be a problem. Maybe I'll get more of what I want out of the machine beyond more "p"s.
I don't think that we should accept more of the same, when it comes to the needless advertising and the lack of customization and innovation. I understand that they are a company and not a charity, but it's not my problem if they can't price it right. I just won't buy it.
Papacheeks
Banned
Chip along with GPU are still custom especially GPU which has been proven with specs to not be a standard Polaris chip since it has 40 compute units.
The cost is in the die size which is close to the pro. The extra costs are in 3 areas uhd drive which adds 15, 4 gigs of GDdr5 and cooling. It just is not a 499.99 dollar machine.
Papacheeks
Banned
But it's not the GPU is a custom Polaris meaning new manufacturing which costs more if the chip isn't being used in other products.
Also the custom cooling solution is expensive along with manufacturing of the unit by itself because of form factor.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Couple of things I've heard. It's either going to be $499 or it's definitely the impression they want everyone to have.
I don't see Microsoft hitting $399. There's very little business sense in it. A lot of folk here saying, "If they hit $400 it'll compete with PlayStation 4!" or "It's smart if they want to keep in the fight!" Nah, I don't think for a second Microsoft believes that, but more than that I don't think Microsoft would be willing to take the risk.
I'm much more likely to believe that Microsoft is willing to release something as risk-intensive as a new console at a safe, profitable price and persuade gamers to come to them. It plays to all of Microsoft's strengths.
Even if their #1 priority was to cut into the PlayStation 4 demographic, all $399 would is invite direct comparisons -- a battle Microsoft's already lost at the "games games games" level. At $499 they change the conversation, they make the Scorpio the premium choice, the actual 4K machine. All language, not coincidentally, we're already hearing out of the Xbox camp. Hell, I bet Microsoft's more seriously considering $599 than $399.
I'm much more likely to believe that Microsoft is willing to release something as risk-intensive as a new console at a safe, profitable price and persuade gamers to come to them. It plays to all of Microsoft's strengths.
Even if their #1 priority was to cut into the PlayStation 4 demographic, all $399 would is invite direct comparisons -- a battle Microsoft's already lost at the "games games games" level. At $499 they change the conversation, they make the Scorpio the premium choice, the actual 4K machine. All language, not coincidentally, we're already hearing out of the Xbox camp. Hell, I bet Microsoft's more seriously considering $599 than $399.
EventHorizon
Member
Agreed, and I have been saying this exact same thing for quite a while. There is no economic sense for Microsoft to price Scorpio close to the XB1 S. If cost estimates are correct, a $399 price would mean they'd lose more money selling a Scorpio than an XB1 S even though the revenue stream (game royalties, Live subscriptions) for the two were the same. Microsoft has absolutely no incentive to subsidize Scorpio. As a result its pricing will be determined by its underlying costs.
Another thing that isn't going to happen is multiple Scorpio SKUs. Scorpio is a niche product that targets relatively price insensitive console game enthusiasts. Not only is that market too small to support multiple consoles at launch, they are not the type of market that is targeted based on price. Scorpio is there for mind share and bragging rights. XB1 S is there for the mass market. It is the XB1 S that will bring in new gamers to this console generation as its price gets lower. If anything is going to have multiple SKUs, it is going to be the XB1 S, not Scorpio.
The 650 has to be joking. Unless you think the cooling, 4 gigs of ram and the uhd drive add 250 dollars to the cost basically the price of a one S.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
It's obvious that Microsoft is trying to do everything that will give them amazing press, akin to what happened to Sony after E3. So I'm expecting Scorpio to retail at $399 with a special goodie.
Scorpio is going to be a 599 product easily. It's premium af, it's meant to rescue the brand by having the most "powerful" console more than the default choice for everyone who's making a cost benefit analysis. They'll still get good press because it's a quality product that gives them a reputation of being the best on the market, similar to the Xbox Elite controller which is the best thing I've ever plugged into my PC.
At 599 Microsoft is going to make a profit per unit and it'll still be lapped up by the hardcore users the Scorpio targets. No casual user is going to be purchasing this console to replace their old Xbox anyway, they're going to go the Nintendo route and make a profit off each console shipped whilst only a small portion of the hardcore market who cares about things like specs goes for it.
No matter what they do 90% of their market will do exactly what has happened with the Playstation, ignore the pro variant and go for the cheapest option, because they probably don't even know what a frame rate is. The Playstation Pro has sold like balls no matter how much Neogaf likes it, consumers don't see the point in spending more for better framerates, they only look at the sticker price.
So why release it at a price that is competitive for the casual base that isn't buying it, instead of making a profit per unit on the console at 599? Which is likely what the hardware actually cost to make. 12GB of GDDR5 does not come cheap and the real price that Microsoft receives is going to be a lot less post retail markup.
At 599 Microsoft is going to make a profit per unit and it'll still be lapped up by the hardcore users the Scorpio targets. No casual user is going to be purchasing this console to replace their old Xbox anyway, they're going to go the Nintendo route and make a profit off each console shipped whilst only a small portion of the hardcore market who cares about things like specs goes for it.
No matter what they do 90% of their market will do exactly what has happened with the Playstation, ignore the pro variant and go for the cheapest option, because they probably don't even know what a frame rate is. The Playstation Pro has sold like balls no matter how much Neogaf likes it, consumers don't see the point in spending more for better framerates, they only look at the sticker price.
So why release it at a price that is competitive for the casual base that isn't buying it, instead of making a profit per unit on the console at 599? Which is likely what the hardware actually cost to make. 12GB of GDDR5 does not come cheap and the real price that Microsoft receives is going to be a lot less post retail markup.