Again. Five seconds shopping for RAM, you'd see your own error.
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Xbox Scorpio Pricing Discussion
- Thread starter BeforeU
- Start date
Scale though. He can look up RAM prices all day if he wants, MS would pay a fraction of any prices he could find
Laughing Buddha
Member
IMO, $399 is the sweet spot for a new console releases and if MS releases the XBox Premium at that price there will be a shift in the market. Unfortunately, I don't think that will happen, Phil keeps referring to it as a "Premium" console which makes me think they will price it at $499 or god forbid more. The price point is so crucial for its success, I sure hope they get it right.
LB
LB
BoxManLocke
Member
A huge part of E3 from last year, probably this year as well. That thing's been formally announced a year in advance.
This is completely different from Sony. Just leaks and the most low-key reveal you can get.
We're saying the same thing, at $499 it will only appeal to a tiny niche. $399 would be very smart and way more people would consider it.
dragonyeuw
Member
I'm going to say $449 with 1TB, $499 with 2TB. They need at least one SKU that is reasonably competitive price-wise with PS4 Pro( and that's not taking into account that Sony could drop the price, as many suspect will happen, and widen the gap further than it's likely to be).
Microsoft aren't walking in to Best Buy and picking this stuff up retail so I don't think that's much of an argument.
At 499 the entire venture could likely end up being a big loss of money.
This isn't about making a short-term profit on <1m units sold while the casual market balks at your product.
This is about them expanding their hold over the market with a highly desirable product that's powerful yet affordable. They need to get rid of the image they've been cultivating these past two years or so, and a 499$ price will likely just be another PR fiasco in the making.
They want these consoles in people's homes. They want people to sign up to game pass and XBL. Hence why I think it'll be 399$ and why I feel the decision to go with Jaguar/Polaris was made. They'd be stupid not to.
Just made a post about this yesterday.
In some cases the same game on PSN cost more, no deals or discounts. Older games I haven't played yet or are gone (robbery 2 years ago).
I don't have a PS4 anymore or a PS4 Pro yet so I have some decisions to make.
Older game prices, the release date and price of the Scorpio will be the biggest factors, that and if the pro gets a price drop.
But yea, I've definitely been thinking about it. Just got an XBO S at Christmas.
Fredrik
Member
It would be their biggest mistake yet. Possibly worse than the always online DRM PR fiasco. I mean if Sony price drops PS4 Pro we might see a situation where Scorpio is $200 more expensive than PS4 Pro. Not good! Even with a power difference easily seen in multiplats it would be a horrible situation for MS.
Hawk269
Member
huh. So I guess you think 12gb of very fast ram and cooling solution in what appears to be a compact design plus all the other things is free and given to MS by faires.
It is. You say die size doesn't matter because the architecture is old. RAM is an old architecture. Even older than Polaris. And you're still paying for die size.
The RAM isn't as expensive as you're implying.
And if the cooling solution was the thing making or breaking a decent pricepoint, they'd have went with something else. The R&D for the cooling system was all done by the Surface team and has been available for a good while, it's not like they spent years designing it for the Xbox Scorpio exclusively.
Papacheeks
Banned
Well that goes against the narrative within the division about budgets getting super tight and it being looked over with a microscope.
Because I highly doubt they want to sell at a loss again since launch have been losing money in the division.
jadedm17
Member
And that's why they went with Jaguar/Polaris. Even at 399 I don't believe they are looking at eating a loss per console sold. And they'll make it back on games and more importantly, services.
tiredheadcrab
Member
Where in the fuck do you think Microsoft buying the memory from? Newegg?
Not quite my position, I think size is a factor but it'll be outweighed by the age. I also don't think consumer ram prices will have a huge sway on what the cost to Microsoft will be.
It will have an effect, but my opinion is that those effects are minor enough that the box will cost $399.
If you can buy a similarly specced PC as a consumer with no volume discount and markup on every component for $550 as a poster earlier in the thread did, I think it'll be easy for Microsoft to get this to $399.
Papacheeks
Banned
Did you actually pay attention to the specs? It's not 1:1 Polaris. It has 40 GPU compute units compared to Polaris 32. So it's custom built that costs money. Cpu though Jaguar is custom so new manufacturing. Add in custom cooling like u said from surface team which surface is crazy expensive to build and u do the math.
http://kotaku.com/this-week-in-the-business-scorpios-price-may-sting-1794132738
Good lord. A $650 cost to build? To sell this thing at $499 would incur a $150 dollar loss. If this is true $599 seems probable. Even that would still be a loss.
Good lord. A $650 cost to build? To sell this thing at $499 would incur a $150 dollar loss. If this is true $599 seems probable. Even that would still be a loss.
Yeah, that guy is delusional. This thing is nowhere near that expensive.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
I really hate the exchange rate right now!
I'm guessing $499, it has a lot of customization on the chips and that cooling solution looks expensive. I don't think the extra RAM is going to be a huge factor though...
It would be a bold move to price it $399.
What I'm sure of is that DF is going to have their hands full next year making comparison videos between PC-PS4-PS4P-XONE-XONEscorpio.
It would be a bold move to price it $399.
What I'm sure of is that DF is going to have their hands full next year making comparison videos between PC-PS4-PS4P-XONE-XONEscorpio.
Papacheeks
Banned
Did u read the source which was gamesindustry.biz with different people giving their educated opinions on it. Some work in the industry.
I agree with your last few posts, it'll be about $399 max and won't break that. MS aren't stupid, the Xbox one is being outsold by the PS4 and they need this to pick things up. They may be selling it as pro, but they need take up on this thing to be mainstream to try and claw market share back.
Papacheeks
Banned
That won't happen this gen straight up. They are just trying to get mindshare back for the brand/division for future.
I would think they are able to launch at $399, but may choose to launch at $449/499 depending on what MS wants from this machine. Do they want a bump in sales or are they content with a lowish volume seller at a higher ASP and trying to win some 'high end' positioning which they'll try and leverage as they prepare for a next gen XB2 in a few years
eh IDK. after E3, I believe scorpio was the most visited IGN page. And its been steadily a conversation piece for a year. plus you mainstream outlets picking this stuff up. People know about it
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Maybe who knows, there's nothing wrong with $499 for what the proposition seems to be. But the Scorpio doesn't exist in a vacuum and they have to consider that.
Plus I would think MS want to use this to improve their position. It's not going to perform any miracles but it can do a bit of damage these next few years if positioned correctly.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
My bullshit price breakdown
110 for the CPU/GPU
60 for the RAM
25 for the UHD drive
184 for everything else
9 for manufacturing
for a grand total of $388
110 for the CPU/GPU
60 for the RAM
25 for the UHD drive
184 for everything else
9 for manufacturing
for a grand total of $388
Yeah it does. CPU's are manufactured by making a giant "wafer" of multiple CPU's, which is then broken down into individual units. These wafers are extraordinarily expensive to manufacture, but if your individual CPU size is reduced you can get substantially more CPU's out of a single wafer (and even small reductions in CPU size have huge impacts on this when you do the surface area math), lowering the per-CPU costs, also because the "edges" which aren't a complete CPU and therefore completely wasted represent less total area the smaller the CPU is.
Can Crusher
Banned
But why? Why would Sony lower the price unless the market demands it?
An Iphone 5S can't hold a candle to other phones in the same price range.
What Sony needs is big software releases. The scorpio is only a threat if the Ps4 turns into a barren wasteland, which clearly ain't happenning.
People really need to adjust expectations.
Pricing it to compete with the PS4 Pro or price it to not lose a ton of money selling at a loss.
It's not gonna be 399. Cuz no matter what they price it at Sony could counter with a lower priced Pro.
Expect both orig consoles to get price cuts tho.
Or Sony to shock the world with a PS5 in 2018.
I think the ram argument makes sense. The last few years on pcpartpicker the ram prices skyrocketed. So much so all parts lists I had with 16GB I changed to 8. If that's the case for retail, wouldn't that be the case for a company buying ram for a product they're making?
It's not gonna be 399. Cuz no matter what they price it at Sony could counter with a lower priced Pro.
Expect both orig consoles to get price cuts tho.
Or Sony to shock the world with a PS5 in 2018.
I think the ram argument makes sense. The last few years on pcpartpicker the ram prices skyrocketed. So much so all parts lists I had with 16GB I changed to 8. If that's the case for retail, wouldn't that be the case for a company buying ram for a product they're making?
The "big software releases" is the big challenge Microsoft has ahead of it. Are people already invested into their PS4's going to be interested in paying $399US or more for the performance boost to multiplats (which they'll now have to play with different people if they were playing with friends, unless all their friends do the same)? Will there be a big difference between a PS4 Pro and Scorpio for people who don't have 4K TV's? It'll be interesting to see what Microsoft has to say at E3, and other follow-up details (price especially, but also things like same games on PS4 Pro vs Scorpio vs $800-$900 PC), as that will answer a lot of questions about what their future prospects are looking like.
But that's my point - MS wnt to improve their position but in what sense?
- marketshare? Then they need to hit $399
- mindshare? They could be fine with a higher price and trying to carve out ownership of the high end/premium space
Green Yoshi
Member
And you are overestimating the position of the Xbox department within Microsoft. Subsidizing increases the cost.
Primethius
Banned
And at $399, it will be.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Yes, higher priced than their budget XB1S at ~$249. $399 is still +$150 over that.
Sony's Pro is their premium PS4 too.
I don't really see a premium market in console gaming TBH. The majority are price sensitive and that's the way it is. Both MS and Sony have been burned by 'high' prices in the past.
Of course there is always a niche market they could target who will pay. But that's a small number of people, majority of which already own the XB1 so it's not like their game sales would expand much. It seems a lot of effort in making a console just to cater to a few people when they could spread the net much further.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Yeah it does. CPU's are manufactured by making a giant "wafer" of multiple CPU's, which is then broken down into individual units. These wafers are extraordinarily expensive to manufacture, but if your individual CPU size is reduced you can get substantially more CPU's out of a single wafer (and even small reductions in CPU size have huge impacts on this when you do the surface area math), lowering the per-CPU costs, also because the "edges" which aren't a complete CPU and therefore completely wasted represent less total area the smaller the CPU is.
hmm interesting, thanks.
Not really, this is not Xbox division 10 years ago. Xbox division today is highly integral part of the MS ONE strategy. Microsoft is losing ground on all fronts against Google and Apple. This is Essentially a Windows 10 gaming device. They WANT to sell as many as they can.
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