I mentioned this above. For whatever reason, the logic of how my mind interprets controls is as me as the camera, not the player character. I don't want forward to mean player forward when the camera is facing the player, it doesn't make sense to me.
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RTTP: Resident Evil 4: The most complete party ever thrown.
- Thread starter StuBurns
- Start date
That's a personal problem not an issue with the game, though.
I didn't claim otherwise.
You seem to be missing the point. You having personal issues with the controls do not make them different. The movement controls are, in effect, exactly the same as the old games. Any personal issues you had with the presentation of the camera in RE4 and RE3 are beside the point.
No, typically you can correct them by entering a sufficiently different input without stopping.
To say that it doesn't address anything is just plain false, it clearly does address the case where you run into a scene then right back out of it by mistake.
Not at all, you're missing my point. Cameras are inherently tied to the game controls. The fact the camera is radically different is why the controls are different.
This is technically true but false in any practical sense.
In RE4 left to the player is left to the character is left to the camera. This is not true in RE1-3.
The fact that the camera relative to the player is basically fixed rather than jump-cutting at random is a huge difference in design, not merely a personal issue.
Or put another way, you can describe RE4 controls as "pressing left turns your character to your left" or "turns your character towards the left side of the screen", which is not true of 1-3.
On a side note you are coming off as needlessly antagonistic.
So you either...
A. Stop
or
B. Waggle the stick until it corrects
Both of which do not change the fact when the transition occurs your still out in the cold as you're still initially going to be heading in a direction that is confusing at best and hazardous-purely due to the shift-at worst. Yeah I'll take the tank controls where I do not have to deal with this, please.
No it does not, as the controls can still initially change into a direction that makes no sense, and will NEVER make any sense unless you have foresight into the shift (ie have played it before).
That is *horrible* game design.
How About No
Member
Um, it IS based on the GC version...
StuBurns said:
Camera controls are not tied to movement controls. The camera has an effect on the way they are presented to the player, but the input does not inherently change.
Nothing in your post (which is purely semantics) contradicts the fact that the movement controls are constant from RE3 upto RE4, regardless of the way they are presented to the player. Not even the little personal attack you tried throwing out there at the end.
Also, I fail to see how reaching the end of a hallway or opening a door is "jump cutting at random".
I don't agree. Control inputs are not the only thing that makes up character movement.
Put simply, in RE4/5 I can always do exactly what I want to, in RE0,1,2,3,CV, I cannot. If the control input is exactly the same, as you claim, it can only be the camera which is greatly reducing the playability of the games for me.
StuBurns said:
It doesn't matter.
The inputs are constant. They have not changed. Arguing personal preference against something that is a base fact does not, and will not, change said fact. You may tell me you disagree that there are planets other than earth but that does not change the fact.
Ding ding ding
That and the aiming controls. The movement controls are the same, regardless of how much you dislike the camera.
But it's a meaningless distinction. The player controls exist within a wholly different camera system, which makes it very different while playing. I don't think 'controls', is as simple as the direct movement input of the player character, it is in conjunction with the camera, and the camera has changed.
The_Hitcher89
Member
I wonder if GoW's 'on-rail-camera' could be used if they were to go back to the old-style RE games
This is factually false, sorry. (Insert point about planets)
Under tank controls or camera-relative controls of the type I am describing your heading after you enter a new scene is exactly the same. If your heading is confusing in one it's confusing in the other, as it is the same in both cases.
It's too far out though right? It's not like people weren't doing that at the time, MGS1 controls exactly as I was talking, the camera is the player in terms of controls, not Snake. When you're running down stairs towards the camera, you press down. But RE focused on very tight camera positioning.
1. No, it really isn't. REv, RE Mercs, RE5, and RE6 all offer distinctly different tactical options via their different movement controls.
2. Even if it was, that doesn't really change the fact.
You perceive it as different, but in reality it's not. You operate under the exact same restrictions as in the previous games, as far as movement goes.
This is just a semantic distinction.
I don't consider controls to be just the buttons you press, I consider it to be your control of the player character within the game. I can achieve everything I want in RE4, I can barely get through the others, because they control terribly.
You can say you don't agree the camera is part of the control toolset, but I do. I don't see how any conclusion is going to come from this debate.
I don't think you understand what a fact is, much less how a sudden, radical shift in character orientation while movement controls remain entirely constant unless you come to a complete stop (or waggle the stick) is jarring.
No it is not. With tank controls your movement controls are always constant. Forward is always going to be forward, regardless of where the camera is. With analog controls this is not the case. Forward could be up, down, left, right, right-up, right-down, left-up, or left-down upon screen transitions. The only way to fix this is to either stop suddenly and reset the controls or waggle the stick until the game detects you don't want inverted controls anymore.
And i also totally disagree with you. The original formula of Resident Evil is about the question: Fighting or Evading? This all comes back to the limited (and bad) controls of the series, which are an consequence of the prerendered backgrounds. But the developers use them to there advance to create a game of limited choices and controls. Learning to deal with the controls and choice wisely between fighting or evading is the point of the game. Fighting makes moving through the levels much easier, but also takes away your limited ammunition, what could create problems in the long run. Evading let you keep you supplies for important times, but you have to know your environment and plan your movement much more to successfully survive. Its a game about risks, planing and the unknown. Resident Evils shows, how you can successfully make bad controls an important point of your game.
Now, we have Resident Evil 4. The developers do not need prerendered backgrounds anymore and can create much "better" controls. Shooting and Evading becomes much easier in the process. This is also the time the developers discover, how much fun shooting makes on its own and create Resident Evil 4 based on this experience. A very fun specialization of the series, but not an overall evolution, since evading with its planing, discovering, orientation and remembering falls flat in the game. It is the part many people miss from the Resident Evil Series and the reason why Resident Evil 4 should have been an spin-off.
AcceptableGhost
Member
We should probably stop discussing StuBurns intense cognitive dissonance (or maybe he is just a scrub) that stops him from enjoying the great older Resident Evil's and go back to discussing an amazing action game.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Just quoting this baffling post for posterity in case you wake up tomorrow and realise you were high or something and want to delete it.
That wasn't ever my take away from the games, (and I have been evading some encounters in RE4), for me those games felt like a more adult and modern take on the point and click adventure, yes, combat was of course a factor, and it still is. Realistically the only difference I see is how concerned you are with ammo essentially (and in past games, ink ribbons), but even that doesn't feel like RE4 was some huge turning point. RE1 felt quite restrictive, but my memories of RE2/3 were pretty much of ripping through the game, with little issue of running out of ammo.
EDIT: He's right, it is cognitive dissonance essentially, although I don't believe it is exclusively mine, considering I've heard people say the same thing since they first came out.
This is complete nonsense.
What "forward" means is completely dependent on your coordinate space. A video game has a player object coordinate space, a camera coordinate space, a screen coordinate space, a coordinate space for every other object, etc. (Hell, even a player model has about 30 different coordinate spaces for different parts)
If you think of "forward" as "forward relative to character space" what you say is true, but character space is not the only possible space, nor is it the one players naturally gravitate towards. That would be camera space, because the camera view vector is typically closely aligned with the view vector of the player.
Tank controls - controls relative to the object rather than the camera - make sense for things like actual tanks because the way you steer a vehicle is by rotating. Human bodies typically do not "steer" by rotating, they simply move in the desired direction. That's why we don't call it "people controls."
The game is also saddled with the awful pre-rendered cutscenes.
Tempted to pick up the hd remake...
Played through re4 at least 5 times before but i Need to wash away the bad taste re6 left...
Truly a bad game, Capcom obviously didn't learn anything from Mikami. First final fantasy, then ninja gaiden and now Resident evil. Dead series IMO
maybe tangos new game will take inspiration from this masterpiece at least...?
Played through re4 at least 5 times before but i Need to wash away the bad taste re6 left...
Truly a bad game, Capcom obviously didn't learn anything from Mikami. First final fantasy, then ninja gaiden and now Resident evil. Dead series IMO
maybe tangos new game will take inspiration from this masterpiece at least...?
No it is not.
Plug in any game with analog controls along with fixed camera angles (RE2 for the N64 is a good example) and run to the left towards a screen transition. Once the transition completes, you will be pressing left to move in a direction that is most obviously not left, and the only course of action to correct this is to stop completely and let them reset. That is jarring as all hell and renders the game unplayable unless you've beaten it 20x and know exactly how the camera is going to be oriented after each and every shift.
The fact that you are trying to worm out of this by trying to start some kind of semantics argument over what the term "forward" means in relation to character movement (hint: it means movement in the direction that the character is facing) over something so simple to grasp is mind boggling to me.
Yes but the game isn't really playable with them, by any means. It was a funny afterthought the devs threw in for the lulz because they could. It's rather hysterical in a "wtf am I watching?!" sorta way to run through two consecutive screen transitions without resetting the controls and be pressing left to move forward but running to your right, at the screen.
Mind-fuck in every sense of the word.
EDIT: This isn't to say the port of RE2 is bad, though. Outside of the highly compressed prerendered cutscenes (which couldn't be helped) the game is pretty much flawlessly ported. It's one of the better ports I've ever seen, in fact.
Yeah, I've only played it solo, and most of my issues with it (purely as a game, not a follow up to RE4), were issues with Sheva, so I'm sure it's much better in co-op. I also never played the second DLC, so I'm actually tempted to see if any friends fancy co-op, and I'll pick up the Gold Ed, give it a co-op run through.
GameTrailers lied.
It was not based off the PC version or the PS2 version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DM-aAsAAk4
Nemesis_
Member
I found Desperate Escape unbearable with a human co-op partner. The AI does a better job at avoiding enemies or at least obeying you I guess.
Easily completed it professional without a friend. It's weird like that.
But of course, in RE5, the AI has the higher propensity to use up all your ammo and items though.
This raises a fairly trivial question, what happened to Leon's jacket, why isn't it in the HD versions?
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
In Desperate Escape, give AI a sniper rifle because you have too many other weapons. Shoot at the guys on the distant grenade turrets? Nope. Instead shoots the guys you're setting up for melee. lol... ugh.
.la1n
Member
Correct. Only the added PS2 content is based off PS2 (obviously.) Everything else is based on the Gamecube code. Resident Evil 4 is my favorite game, period. I keep hope that one day we will see a worthy successor.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Um... it is. That's the special RPD costume.
No, I know that, I meant the normal jacket. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought he had a jacket on the GC/Wii version, but not the PS2 version. I guess he just takes it off and I forgot.
I've been thinking about playing this game on Professional. I've only played the PS2 version on Normal, back when that was released.
I figure my choices are:
- Wii version on SDTV with Gamecube controller.
- HD release on 360
- Wii version in Dolphin
I'm not sure that I trust Dolphin, yet. Has anybody played through the entire game with Dolphin? How often have you run into issues? If the HD version straight-up lacks specular effects, as suggested in this thread, I don't think I can play it.
Hope I can go back to this after RE6!
I figure my choices are:
- Wii version on SDTV with Gamecube controller.
- HD release on 360
- Wii version in Dolphin
I'm not sure that I trust Dolphin, yet. Has anybody played through the entire game with Dolphin? How often have you run into issues? If the HD version straight-up lacks specular effects, as suggested in this thread, I don't think I can play it.
Hope I can go back to this after RE6!
You can't be serious. That's a blanket rule for you is it? No specular mapping, no ball?
Nemesis_
Member
Seriously for my Pro run I just took all his weapons and just speed runned it. It was too hard to try and do it properly.
I realise how terrible RE5's AI was now that I've played RE6.
Evolved1
make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
I played on GC and recently on PS3. I saw my bro playing the PS2 version once, but it was later in the game.
I know in the PS3 version he has the jacket and then loses it after being captured.
Actually now that I think about it, he must have the jacket in PS2, because the Ada missions were PS2 stuff right? And at one point she goes back to the village and sees a gando wearing Leon's jacket.
The Wii version is not the original release.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
He definitely has the jacket at the start in the PS2 version, just like in all the other versions.
I heard it was only missing in a couple of places. I don't know if that's accurate because there was a lot of discussion of the how the remaster was made, and I don't know if a consensus emerged.
I heard it was only missing in a couple of places. I don't know if that's accurate because there was a lot of discussion of the how the remaster was made, and I don't know if a consensus emerged.
Cool, thanks.
Serious jacket spoilers follow.
His jacket is stolen by a ganado (Don Miguel) after he first encounters Luis and Mendez. You find him wearing it while playing as Ada in Separate Ways.
StuBurns said:
The Wii version added the specular effects?
It doesn't matter much which version the effects originated in, really. It sounds like RE4 Gamecube/RE4 Wii (depending on the above) is the most complex version asset-wise, and given that the game was made for SD displays in the first place, I don't think I'll miss the resolution increase provided by the HD releases much.
Maybe I'd be convinced that the resolution/effect tradeoff is worth it if someone provided a breakdown of the specific uses of the effects and showed that they're actually on only three or four objects in the game, lol. I'm assuming that if the effects are there in the first place, they're sprinkled throughout.
There's also the matter of audio quality, if I'm remembering right.