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PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
We're not going to have PS3-esque game improvements over time. In the PS3 days, the Cell CPU was notoriously difficult to work with, with Sony having poor documentation and dev tools in comparison to what MS provided with the 360.

This led to PS3's 'renaissance' toward the end of last-gen where you had beautiful titles like Uncharted 3, TLOU, GoW: Ascension, Beyond: Two Souls, etc. Multi-plat titles generally got better overall too.

This was down to Sony improving their documentation and SDK tools for devs. So as the gen progressed, the console was 'unlocked' so to speak.

This time around, both PS4 and XB1 are mostly using off-the-shelf PC parts and x86 architectures. The max potential of both consoles are known quantities. Sure you'll see minor improvements as devs improve their engines, and Sony and MS will likely give back some more RAM to devs, but we're not going to see PS3-style jumps between games over the years.

You completely forgot about what Mark Cerny said about compute in the OG PS4. Take a look at what he said. It's alot of tech talk, but it's good stuff. :)

Familiar Architecture, Future-Proofed​

So what does Cerny really think the console will gain from this design approach? Longevity.

Cerny is convinced that in the coming years, developers will want to use the GPU for more than pushing graphics -- and believes he has determined a flexible and powerful solution to giving that to them. "The vision is using the GPU for graphics and compute simultaneously," he said. "Our belief is that by the middle of the PlayStation 4 console lifetime, asynchronous compute is a very large and important part of games technology."

Cerny envisions "a dozen programs running simultaneously on that GPU" -- using it to "perform physics computations, to perform collision calculations, to do ray tracing for audio."

But that vision created a major challenge: "Once we have this vision of asynchronous compute in the middle of the console lifecycle, the question then becomes, 'How do we create hardware to support it?'"

One barrier to this in a traditional PC hardware environment, he said, is communication between the CPU, GPU, and RAM. The PS4 architecture is designed to address that problem.

"A typical PC GPU has two buses," said Cerny. "There’s a bus the GPU uses to access VRAM, and there is a second bus that goes over the PCI Express that the GPU uses to access system memory. But whichever bus is used, the internal caches of the GPU become a significant barrier to CPU/GPU communication -- any time the GPU wants to read information the CPU wrote, or the GPU wants to write information so that the CPU can see it, time-consuming flushes of the GPU internal caches are required."

Enabling the Vision: How Sony Modified the Hardware

The three "major modifications" Sony did to the architecture to support this vision are as follows, in Cerny's words:

"First, we added another bus to the GPU that allows it to read directly from system memory or write directly to system memory, bypassing its own L1 and L2 caches. As a result, if the data that's being passed back and forth between CPU and GPU is small, you don't have issues with synchronization between them anymore. And by small, I just mean small in next-gen terms. We can pass almost 20 gigabytes a second down that bus. That's not very small in today’s terms -- it’s larger than the PCIe on most PCs!
"Next, to support the case where you want to use the GPU L2 cache simultaneously for both graphics processing and asynchronous compute, we have added a bit in the tags of the cache lines, we call it the 'volatile' bit. You can then selectively mark all accesses by compute as 'volatile,' and when it's time for compute to read from system memory, it can invalidate, selectively, the lines it uses in the L2. When it comes time to write back the results, it can write back selectively the lines that it uses. This innovation allows compute to use the GPU L2 cache and perform the required operations without significantly impacting the graphics operations going on at the same time -- in other words, it radically reduces the overhead of running compute and graphics together on the GPU."
Thirdly, said Cerny, "The original AMD GCN architecture allowed for one source of graphics commands, and two sources of compute commands. For PS4, we’ve worked with AMD to increase the limit to 64 sources of compute commands -- the idea is if you have some asynchronous compute you want to perform, you put commands in one of these 64 queues, and then there are multiple levels of arbitration in the hardware to determine what runs, how it runs, and when it runs, alongside the graphics that's in the system."
"The reason so many sources of compute work are needed is that it isn’t just game systems that will be using compute -- middleware will have a need for compute as well. And the middleware requests for work on the GPU will need to be properly blended with game requests, and then finally properly prioritized relative to the graphics on a moment-by-moment basis."

This concept grew out of the software Sony created, called SPURS, to help programmers juggle tasks on the CELL's SPUs -- but on the PS4, it's being accomplished in hardware.

The team, to put it mildly, had to think ahead. "The time frame when we were designing these features was 2009, 2010. And the timeframe in which people will use these features fully is 2015? 2017?" said Cerny.

"Our overall approach was to put in a very large number of controls about how to mix compute and graphics, and let the development community figure out which ones they want to use when they get around to the point where they're doing a lot of asynchronous compute."

Cerny expects developers to run middleware -- such as physics, for example -- on the GPU. Using the system he describes above, you can run at peak efficiency, he said.

"If you look at the portion of the GPU available to compute throughout the frame, it varies dramatically from instant to instant. For example, something like opaque shadow map rendering doesn't even use a pixel shader, it’s entirely done by vertex shaders and the rasterization hardware -- so graphics aren't using most of the 1.8 teraflops of ALU available in the CUs. Times like that during the game frame are an opportunity to say, 'Okay, all that compute you wanted to do, turn it up to 11 now.'"

Sounds great -- but how do you handle doing that? "There are some very simple controls where on the graphics side, from the graphics command buffer, you can crank up or down the compute," Cerny said. "The question becomes, looking at each phase of rendering and the load it places on the various GPU units, what amount and style of compute can be run efficiently during that phase?"

Launch and Beyond

The benefits of this powerful hardware will be seen in the PlayStation 4's launch games. But Cerny maintains that, in the future, they'll shine through in totally different ways.

"The launch lineup for PlayStation 4 -- though I unfortunately can’t give the title count -- is going to be stronger than any prior PlayStation hardware. And that's a result of that familiarity," Cerny said. But "if your timeframe is 2015, by another way of thinking, you really need to be doing that customization, because your competition will be doing that customization."

So while it takes "weeks, not months" to port a game engine from the PC to the PlayStation 4 according to Cerny, down the road, dedicated console developers can grasp the capabilities of the PlayStation 4, customize their technology, and really reap the benefits.

"There are many, many ways to control how the resources within the GPU are allocated between graphics and compute. Of course, what you can do, and what most launch titles will do, is allocate all of the resources to graphics. And that’s perfectly fine, that's great. It's just that the vision is that by the middle of the console lifecycle, that there's a bit more going on with compute."

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php?print=1

Never forget that this may be PC architecture, but it's still customized by Sony. And devs taking advantage of all these customizations will reap all of the benefits.
 

Markoman

Member
Not this me see knowing what happens in the later years of consoles .
This is me knowing that devs and pubs know the bigger market does not care .
Last gen games got worst in performance as time went on .
Just look at games like TLOU, GTAV , Skyrim , COD that sell million with frame drops all over the place.

No sorry, this is just you believing that better hardware automatically means no issues.
Ask all the PC guys how a Titan is going to help when a game is rushed and simply broken at launch.

You can't even completly rule out that the version on the more powerful plattform will have more issues compared to the weaker one when devs put more optimization into the latter.
Depends on the target and how much time and work is spend on achieving that target.
 

komorebi

Member
See i think devs were going to do this with or with out PS4K .
This way at least i have a option when things get worst .

Good point, I just wonder how long that'll last. Nothing is set in stone here, except for the track record of the big AAA developers and publishers unfortunately. That's where the speculation, on my part at least, is coming from. Despite OsirisBlack's clarification of how he interpreted "sacrifices", once the dust settles I think this is going to be more of the same attitude.

Regardless I have a feeling many people will want to upgrade once they see that FFXV-4K or GOW4K or whatever doesn't run at sub-30fps with a dynamic resolution.

'Considerable sacrifices made to performance' is very strong, emotive and negative wording. This is obviously not how Sony would even contemplate putting the message out regarding PS4 ports compared to PS4K's. 'Significantly enhanced on PS4K', sure. In fact the way the OP put it is completely his interpretation.

Well sure, but none of us here need PR to soften the blow. We're mostly enthusiast gamers who are pretty on top of our favorite hobby and know how things work, and where the industry and market is headed. That's why I think Sony intentionally leaked this by sitting down with the major game retailers (which is more likely to leak than, say, chatting with Naughty Dog), so they could prepare the public for their plans. This is quite a big disturbance in the Force that goes beyond "oh man now I have to spend another $500?". The official announcement (aka PR speak) will clarify exactly what this means going forward.

interesting, thanks. i've heard rumblings about this on other forums but i didn't get it until now.

You been cheating on GAF? At least read the OP man.
 
It's needed for 4K gaming & most people should understand that

first off its pretty clear this isn't about just 4k gaming intact most games will be upscaled. Op states games are being made directly with this hardware in mind and it appears this is in place for VR.
 
first off its pretty clear this isn't about just 4k gaming intact most games will be upscaled. Op states games are being made directly with this hardware in mind and it appears this is in place for VR.

Whynotboth.jpg

Can someone explain to me why there's so much argument about what this upgrade is about when the only logical answer for the upgrade is to enhance 4K, VR, Media and Gaming?

Why does it have to be about one or the other? That would be ridiculous to come out with a hardware revision and just ignore parts of the market that would benefit from the upgrade.

are you on mobile or something?

I was trying to be respectful since I know you don't appreciate the avatar quotes.
 

labx

Banned
ok, I had to much info about this ps4K speculation or fact. I'm going to wait for the bomb directly launch by Sony at this year E3. I will cry, make a hate post, and embrace the darkness. Unless Persona 5 is out in ps4. Then a year later, I will seeing post of Last Of Us 2, new IPs, Detroit, Deep Down and I will go to amazon's and buy the bundle PS4K with Uncharted 4K + PSVR and hate myself for that, because I have responsibilities. Then the package is at my door, I will set up my PS4K start playing VR games and I will smile and self loathe at the same time because in the end I didn't resist the consumers way. Because gaming is an expensive hobby.


Probably in the process I will lose my SO because I will neglect some things about her, trying to save money to buy PS4K related media.


this my friends is my future in a nutshell.
 
No sorry, this is just you believing that better hardware automatically means no issues.
Ask all the PC guys how a Titan is going to help when a game is rushed and simply broken at launch.

You can't even completly rule out that the version on the more powerful plattform will have more issues compared to the weaker one when devs put more optimization into the latter.
Depends on the target and how much time and work is spend on achieving that target.

To be fair at least *in general* console games have pretty OK quality control, for the most part.

And I mean to stress in general, I'm sure there are shit examples all over the place.
See i think devs were going to do this with or with out PS4K .
This way at least i have a option when things get worst .
That's a pretty good point for PS4K.

That said I've been pretty satisfied performance wise for games in general on PS4 so far. I don't think we've seen as much of the performance sacrificing as we did in the PS3 gen (and PS2 was much worse before that).
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
See i think devs were going to do this with or with out PS4K .
This way at least i have a option when things get worst .

Bingo!

To be fair at least *in general* console games have pretty OK quality control, for the most part.

And I mean to stress in general, I'm sure there are shit examples all over the place.
That's a pretty good point for PS4K.

That said I've been pretty satisfied performance wise for games in general on PS4 so far. I don't think we've seen as much of the performance sacrificing as we did in the PS3 gen (and PS2 was much worse before that).

Agreed.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
If the ps3 could pull these visuals off then I can't imagine what even the ps4 version would bring

ascension_by_raziel1992-d783k93.gif

And that's on a console that has 0.3 Teraflops of power. Give those some developers a console that 1.84 Teraflops and have them fully program with compute. My goodness this will be fun!
 

BriGuy

Member
I doubt PS4 will be optimized as it could of with another more powerful version to deal with. And developers will have a potential 5 platforms to code for now. They already have trouble with 2. How is adding more good?

They could just treat PS4/K releases like PC ports. Just make the game and give the player full control of their settings. Maybe the PS4K can achieve 1080p/60fps on high settings whereas the PS4 would have to settle for 1080p/30fps, or 720p/60fps. Leave it up to the individual.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
To be honest after reading everyone's worries about sacrifices being made to ps4 versions of games vs a ps4k verison, I think if you look at it differently it is more akin to ps4 hitting it's ceiling more and ps4k just having a higher ceiling without ps4k existing that ceiling on the ps4 will still exist and if and when the ps4k comes out that ceiling will still exist on ps4 so games won't really have to have sacrifices on ps4 it would just hit the harware limitation where as a ps4k would just give devs a higher ceiling to work with while still trying to optimize on ps4 and it's ceiling.

This is what I realized earlier this week during my "bargaining" stage of grief.
 
You been cheating on GAF? At least read the OP man.
what I meant before was that the info from the OP is spreading elsewhere on the net including other forums. just went and read the OP in its entirety and I gotta say I'm still not liking where this is going.
 

onQ123

Member
first off its pretty clear this isn't about just 4k gaming intact most games will be upscaled. Op states games are being made directly with this hardware in mind and it appears this is in place for VR.

First off don't say first off, who you think you are 2pac? lol And I never said it was just about 4K gaming but it's needed for 4K gaming & they shouldn't have to be limited to just 4K media. they made the PS4 with specs that would cater to 1080P gaming & now that the standards have been put in place for 4K they are able to cater to 4K gaming & the extra GPU, new display controller engines , HDMI 2.0 & so on enables that.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
And that's on a console that has 0.3 Teraflops of power. Give those some developers a console that 1.84 Teraflops and have them fully program with compute. My goodness this will be fun!

Yeah, which reminds me. I have it queued for download on the PS3 for the month they gave it away with Plus, and need to play it. Still looks amazing.

Giant enemy crab. It's a foundation in Sony Boss fight history.

Hahaha.

First off don't say first off, who you think you are 2pac? lol And I never said it was just about 4K gaming but it's needed for 4K gaming & they shouldn't have to be limited to just 4K media. they made the PS4 with specs that would cater to 1080P gaming & now that the standards have been put in place for 4K they are able to cater to 4K gaming & the extra GPU, new display controller engines , HDMI 2.0 & so on enables that.

Good perspective.
 
We're not going to have PS3-esque game improvements over time. In the PS3 days, the Cell CPU was notoriously difficult to work with
Maxing out Radeon CUs via Async Compute/GPGPU is the equivalent of maxing out Cell SPUs. Nothing has changed in that regard.

Async Compute is as hard as SPU programming. That's why few games utilize it (BF4, Infamous Second Son, The Tomorrow Children). Uncharted 4 might be the next one, I reckon.
 

Alebrije

Member
I do not asked for this but if Sony will release a PS4K just hope it goes fine, will keep my PS4 since do not see a reason to upgrade.

Do not want to see Sony fail because overall think the company has helped the videogame industry to grow , they offer game experiences that hardly you see in other consoles like Journey ,Flower, ICO, Shadows of Co. Etc.

I just want that Sony obligates developers offer the best quality games on PS4 and do not go the lazy way. Becuase the concern about crap ports to PS4 uses vs PS4K is real and has fundaments on what have be seen before. Mobile games is an example , there are games that just can be played on the newest iteration.

Also do not see this PS4K moving a lot of consoles specially if it comes with a 499 price and need a 4K tv to get the full experience.

So the ball is on developers side , not Sony or consumers, and think they are smart to do not hurt the 40 million PS4 users compared to a small PS4K install base. Only when PS4K user base surpass PS4 one by a lot will think they will focus more on it but by this moment Sony will be thinking on PS5.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Maxing out Radeon CUs via Async Compute/GPGPU is the equivalent of maxing out Cell SPUs. Nothing has changed in that regard.

Async Compute is as hard as SPU programming. That's why few games utilize it (BF4, Infamous Second Son, The Tomorrow Children). Uncharted 4 might be the next one, I reckon.

I'd imagine whatever the new GPU is in the PS4K it would be a good bet that Async Compute is a Sony customisation that is being built upon and strengthened.

mckmas8808 said:
True. And the PS4 has compute with 64 compute commands available to help dig deep with future PS4 games.

Agreed. More than that it is why it is pointless to argue about whether native 4K is possible on a e.g. 3.6TF GPU. It is nowhere near telling the whole story (leaving aside that few devs would choose to do it)
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Maxing out Radeon CUs via Async Compute/GPGPU is the equivalent of maxing out Cell SPUs. Nothing has changed in that regard.

Async Compute is as hard as SPU programming. That's why few games utilize it (BF4, Infamous Second Son, The Tomorrow Children). Uncharted 4 might be the next one, I reckon.

Battlefront as well I assume?

image.php


^that's why he's on my personal contact list ;)

Something I have always wondered. How does avatar quoting work? Like, how do you do it? Does it have to be an avatar already on Gaf somewhere?
 
[SPOILER*]what I don't appreciate is the 1%er stuff[/SPOILER*]

image.php


^that's why he's on my personal contact list ;)

Battlefront as well I assume?



Something I have always wondered. How does avatar quoting work? Like, how do you do it? Does it have to be an avatar already on Gaf somewhere?

copy the respective link of the avatar you want to quote (right-click) and post it as an image. Works although there is no .jpg or .gif at the end.
 
D

Deleted member 325805

Unconfirmed Member
I mean, if the new power allows 1080p/60 in games that are 1080p/30 on PS4 then I am basically forced to upgrade as frame rate > all for me, but if the jump isn't so massive then I don't know. If it's going to be 1080p/30 on both consoles but PS4K runs at "ultra" instead of "high" then I really don't give a fuck about that.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I mean, if the new power allows 1080p/60 in games that are 1080p/30 on PS4 then I am basically forced to upgrade as frame rate > all for me, but if the jump isn't so massive then I don't know. If it's going to be 1080p/30 on both consoles but PS4K runs at "ultra" instead of "high" then I really don't give a fuck about that.

And that is perfectly understandable stance to take. You have the option, if the upgrades are not as important to you, you will not miss out on anything just as if it did not exist at all.
 

OsirisBlack

Banned
I do have more information but have decided not to post it. Boogz brought something to my attention last night and after sleeping on it, he is right. Also Diana of Themyscira is not sure who all has access to her information outside of Mr Wayne so I will not throw her under the bus.


The only thing I can add is that after checking around the date seems to be in question. Diana suggests the holiday 2016 date is not what she has heard and is early. Mr Wayne is sure that its holiday 2016. Her belief is that they wont even announce until after the holiday to try to get rid of as many OG units as possible during the holiday without the new sku interfering with the PSVR and OG sku sales.
 
It all makes too much sense but some of you are whining because it means you will feel inferior if someone gets the newer version of your platform of choice while you are stuck with the older version. Well let me tell you, I'm still on my OG iPad Air and I can still play any new game that's released for the platform without any problems. I'm also still on my i5 3570k and can play any new PC game that comes out. Would I get better performance on both platforms if I upgraded? Yes. But do I have to? No. And that's all that matters.

Great point. Im still on my iPad 3 and I'm fine with it being much more casual game player on it vs console. Im not pissed that Apple released better ones that perform better. I might upgrade one day!
 
image.php


^that's why he's on my personal contact list ;)
gah, 2 years and you know me so well BP :p

anyways, on topic gamecross's video nails it for me. in a generation, for PC gaming you always have to upgrade for the best performance but that is never a factor for console gaming. that's all about to change.

maybe i'll be okay with it if there is a very generous trade in program, but then again, I already burned $400+ for hardware, and I'll still have to be spending it for more hardware in this gen so I'm leaning against the fence rather than towards it.
 

komorebi

Member
I do have more information but have decided not to post it. Boogz brought something to my attention last night and after sleeping on it, he is right. Also Diana of Themyscira is not sure who all has access to her information outside of Mr Wayne so I will not throw her under the bus.


The only thing I can add is that after checking around the date seems to be in question. Diana suggests the holiday 2016 date is not what she has heard and is early. Mr Wayne is sure that its holiday 2016. Her belief is that they wont even announce until after the holiday to try to get rid of as many OG units as possible during the holiday without interfering with the PSVR and OG sku sales.

Interesting, thanks.
 

Loudninja

Member
I do have more information but have decided not to post it. Boogz brought something to my attention last night and after sleeping on it, he is right. Also Diana of Themyscira is not sure who all has access to her information outside of Mr Wayne so I will not throw her under the bus.


The only thing I can add is that after checking around the date seems to be in question. Diana suggests the holiday 2016 date is not what she has heard and is early. Mr Wayne is sure that its holiday 2016. Her belief is that they wont even announce until after the holiday to try to get rid of as many OG units as possible during the holiday without interfering with the PSVR and OG sku sales.
It makes sense.

But if its that confusing I dont see it coming this year.
 
I do have more information but have decided not to post it. Boogz brought something to my attention last night and after sleeping on it, he is right. Also Diana of Themyscira is not sure who all has access to her information outside of Mr Wayne so I will not throw her under the bus.


The only thing I can add is that after checking around the date seems to be in question. Diana suggests the holiday 2016 date is not what she has heard and is early. Mr Wayne is sure that its holiday 2016. Her belief is that they wont even announce until after the holiday to try to get rid of as many OG units as possible during the holiday without interfering with the PSVR and OG sku sales.

Hmm. The plot thickens. I see the 2017 scenario as most believable but either feel reasonable.
 

Reaperssj

Member
In theory that's a possibility. In practice, it is a question of whether the majority of developers will have the incentive to optimize the PS4 version or the PS4.5 one.

On the one hand, they might start announcing that anyone wanting the definitive edition should get the PS4.5 one.

On the other hand, the PS4.5 could be held back by the limits of the PS4 with the developers optimizing more for it seeing how it has the larger base while getting okay performance from the 4.5 without much optimization.

Development costs are skyrocketing as is so adding another tier would make things more complicated and corners are likely to be cut.

It would be interesting if Sony would end up forcing all developers to target 4K with the new console while keeping the IQ similar to PS4 but then there is the question VR so this might be unlikely.

You make a good point about the practicality of having more platforms to optimize for (Damn your well thought out logic)but, and I say this as a person who isn't the most savy of the dev process, if devs can patch in performance increases and develope simultaneously on different platforms already with pc games having scalability with low to high settings doesn't that mean their engines can easily scale to accommodate the specs of the ps4k?
 

onQ123

Member
I do have more information but have decided not to post it. Boogz brought something to my attention last night and after sleeping on it, he is right. Also Diana of Themyscira is not sure who all has access to her information outside of Mr Wayne so I will not throw her under the bus.


The only thing I can add is that after checking around the date seems to be in question. Diana suggests the holiday 2016 date is not what she has heard and is early. Mr Wayne is sure that its holiday 2016. Her belief is that they wont even announce until after the holiday to try to get rid of as many OG units as possible during the holiday without interfering with the PSVR and OG sku sales.


So how can you be sure of the price when the people giving you the information isn't sure of the release date?
 

sandkiller

Member
I do have more information but have decided not to post it. Boogz brought something to my attention last night and after sleeping on it, he is right. Also Diana of Themyscira is not sure who all has access to her information outside of Mr Wayne so I will not throw her under the bus.


The only thing I can add is that after checking around the date seems to be in question. Diana suggests the holiday 2016 date is not what she has heard and is early. Mr Wayne is sure that its holiday 2016. Her belief is that they wont even announce until after the holiday to try to get rid of as many OG units as possible during the holiday without the new sku interfering with the PSVR and OG sku sales.

Now that makes more sense :)
Also aligns better with what we know so far from AMD
 

Daffy Duck

Member
I do have more information but have decided not to post it. Boogz brought something to my attention last night and after sleeping on it, he is right. Also Diana of Themyscira is not sure who all has access to her information outside of Mr Wayne so I will not throw her under the bus.


The only thing I can add is that after checking around the date seems to be in question. Diana suggests the holiday 2016 date is not what she has heard and is early. Mr Wayne is sure that its holiday 2016. Her belief is that they wont even announce until after the holiday to try to get rid of as many OG units as possible during the holiday without the new sku interfering with the PSVR and OG sku sales.

If they hold off announcing until after VR launches there will be a lot of pissed of people
 
D

Deleted member 325805

Unconfirmed Member
And that is perfectly understandable stance to take. You have the option, if the upgrades are not as important to you, you will not miss out on anything just as if it did not exist at all.

I have the option but I'm really, really not happy about it. I've always been a PC gamer so I'm used to upgrading my GPU every few years, but that is not what I expect from console gaming and I didn't expect my PS4 to become tier II in such a short time. Knowing I could be playing XXX exclusive at 60fps instead of 30fps would grate on me constantly. So sure, they'll get my money hurray for them but it's a bitter pill to swallow.
 

Alebrije

Member
I do have more information but have decided not to post it. Boogz brought something to my attention last night and after sleeping on it, he is right. Also Diana of Themyscira is not sure who all has access to her information outside of Mr Wayne so I will not throw her under the bus.


The only thing I can add is that after checking around the date seems to be in question. Diana suggests the holiday 2016 date is not what she has heard and is early. Mr Wayne is sure that its holiday 2016. Her belief is that they wont even announce until after the holiday to try to get rid of as many OG units as possible during the holiday without the new sku interfering with the PSVR and OG sku sales.


Makes sense , why hurt PS4 momentum , also the new big boy is PSVR why distract consumers with a new PS4 console. 2017 announcement and release seem better.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
copy the respective link of the avatar you want to quote (right-click) and post it as an image. Works although there is no .jpg or .gif at the end.

Most likely.

By using IMG tags and the image URL:


It has to be a NeoGaf URL though, correct? I can't just rip a URL from another site with same avatar size requirements?
I do have more information but have decided not to post it. Boogz brought something to my attention last night and after sleeping on it, he is right. Also Diana of Themyscira is not sure who all has access to her information outside of Mr Wayne so I will not throw her under the bus.


The only thing I can add is that after checking around the date seems to be in question. Diana suggests the holiday 2016 date is not what she has heard and is early. Mr Wayne is sure that its holiday 2016. Her belief is that they wont even announce until after the holiday to try to get rid of as many OG units as possible during the holiday without the new sku interfering with the PSVR and OG sku sales.

Makes more sense, as well as others who said, aligns with AMD more with their roadmap.

Makes sense , why hurt PS4 momentum , also the new big boy is PSVR why distract consumers with a new PS4 console. 2017 announcement and release seem better.

Agreed.
 

Speevy

Banned
This is an honest question I have.

Don't you need a 50 inch TV to get the most out of 4k TV watching?

If I'm wrong, fine..

If that is true, then what if you're gaming in a small bedroom where 50 inches would be ridiculous?

If that is the case, then this machine would need to have benefits that have nothing to do with 4k resolutions to make that worthwhile.

If it's twice as powerful or whatever, and a significant portion of the games look much better and move at a better clip, that's the biggest screwing over that any company has done in our industry's history.
 
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