freefornow
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Xbox Project Scorpio Announced - 6TFlops, 320GB/s - Fall 2017
- Thread starter wachie
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Kssio_Aug
Member
Also, according to MosquitoSmasher people are saying the game would be running at low settings. It doesn't mean it necessarily is running with low textures, it could be medium textures or something, but the other effects may scream low settings. Which is not that unbelievable, specially at 4k resolution, given how Battlefield 1 performs, according to DF:
By our reckoning, DICE is using presets mostly in line with the medium setting on PC as the graphical baseline on consoles, with some effects lifted from both high and low settings.
For example, core texture detail matches up to the PC version using ultra settings, with consoles only missing out on extra detail layers across some parts of the environment (perhaps due to a reduction in terrain quality). Meanwhile, motion blur is a close match to low, featuring more break up across edges, while undergrowth quality varies on a scene by scene basis, seemingly switching between high and medium levels of detail. Terrain quality also uses a combination of medium and low settings.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-battlefield-1-face-off
I'm not saying the Reddit talk about the graphics is true (I have no idea even where they took it from), but at 4K and considering Battlefront 2 is super modern game, since yet to be released, I would not be surprised it would take more compromises than Battlefield 1 and Battlefront 1.
But Scorpio seems to be quite a strong hardware, so yeah... that could toally be fake. In other words, I have no idea, but it may not be impossible.
Glad to hear it.
Look, pretty much any posts of yours Ive come across in Scorpio threads have been pessimistic...I don't have a dog in this fight Im too busy and old for this shit I just noticed it...I don't know what else to tell you. If you wanna link some positive (or even slightly optimistic) Scorpio posts by you that I missed cause I don't visit here as much as I used to go ahead and Ill gladly say Im incorrect but I certainly haven't seen one.
If you say youre just being a realist thats fine I guess, but like I said I noticed a trend of you downplaying the system the past months, particularly in response to anyone who was assuming something optimistic when it comes to specs or new MS IP.
lol yeah no.
I was not assuming his posts had any bias and I wasn't looking for anything..I simply noticed a trend of pessimism.
That's the thing, the Scorpio's specs aren't something to be positive or negative about, they simply are what they are. So if someone says for example the CPU is the same as the Pro, then I will say no, it's not, it's stronger. But at the same time, statements that the Scorpio's CPU will be significantly stronger than it is are also inaccurate, and I will point that out.
That's not downplaying, that's being truthful. Just like me saying the idea that BFII will run at low settings on Scorpio is ridiculous. I'm not playing up the Scorpio, I'm stating a fact.
As for new MS IP, I am unhappy with MS's lack of commitment to a strong and deep first party lineup, and I have no reason now to think that is changing. If it does change however, I would be nothing but ecstatic.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I have a feeling Scorpio will not just meet it's core goal, take games that can run at 900p and above on Xbox One and run them at equal framerate at 4K on scorpio with added 4K assets, but will also be able to go a bit beyond that with enhancements while still being 4K.
I suppose time will tell, but I'm just believing Microsoft did a far better job profiling existing games/engines and their various bottlenecks on Xbox One than people think, and Scorpio will be all the better for it. I do think all the profiling data will turn out to be a much bigger deal than anyone was giving it credit for being. But that's just my assumption.
Vegetable Lasagna
Member
I don't even care about anymore Scorpio details or the E3 announcement. Just unleash the preorders and take my money.
Same. But I want to see what it looks like. Hell, I don't care if the whole E3 is just staring at it.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Which is why I think some have stated this thing should be more than just about the pure numbers.
Unless of course the profiling stuff dictating the new architecture was all PR fluff. We'll find out I guess.
Hawk269
Member
With all due respect Matt, I have read many posts of yours that do come across as negative or downplaying Scorpio. I don't have specific posts to call out, but it just comes across in your posts that you seem negative. Reading your last few here, I know that is not the case and you do seem to be looking forward to it, but just going by your past posts over the last several months they do come across a bit negative. You can call it being honest and stating fact, but when you are replying to someone that seems excited, you tend to downplay the excitement that person has.
Don't want to dog pile on you and I hope you don't take it that way, I just wanted to echo that I personally view some of your posts in that way whether you agree or disagree, it is a perception that some have of you and your posts (not all of them, but some).
Anyways, I hope that when they finally show stuff running on it that it will impress many of us.
Jaguar Victory
Member
Let's jump off Matt though guys. He has a little eeyore in him but hes not doing it to be a dick. He's a good dude.
statham
Member
Was he around the blue or green pill, or any pro power threads? I serious dont know, asking.
Pretty much my thinking. I want to get my pre order in asap.
Price is no issue for me. Although I trust MS to not be too crazy with the price of this thing.
Jaguar Victory
Member
I think he was tempering expectations there too if I recall.
Hawk269
Member
Yeah, I agree. I just want to get my pre-order in and secure my system. I am sure that GS and Amazon and a few others will have pre-orders on Monday or even possible later Sunday evening.
Primethius
Banned
Matt quick, make some overtly positive MS posts so you can be considered fair and balanced.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Man I sure hope next year or at the latest 2019 we're going to be reading different things than that. Phil Spencer has recently acknowledged that they need to improve their first parties and that they would be dedicating greatly to that. Then again they have been saying this for a long time now with still no real results. I guess we'll see but what you say here doesn't exactly sound hopeful.
I mean if there aren't even any slight signs right now of any changes, what significant changes can have been made next year?
This is hilariously ironic when you have guys like Collingwood going into full on console warrior mode over perceived slights.
Fair enough, I don't mean to pile on, you certainly seem honest in your replies. E3 is 10 days away (!), we all can have a much more meaningful discussion (about hopefully hype news) then.
Nice drive-by post responding to absolutely nothing bro.
Liabe Brave
Member
As already pointed out, Microsoft is the source of that fact.
Here's what actually happened. Turn 10's Studio Software Architect said this:
Meanwhile, Mr. Leadbetter himself noticed the AA setting onscreen, he was not told about it. So on first look it appears that, contrary to what the senior technical worker at the studio said, not everything was maxed. Leaving us with an unknown number of settings (perhaps as low as one) below max.Chris Tector said:
Alternately, you might notice that Mr. Tector qualified the maxed settings as "everything that's GPU-related" (emphasis mine). If AA is one of those, then he didn't say anything false. But in that case, he then seems to explicitly be saying that multiple settings were not maxed--i.e. all of them not GPU-related.
It was designed by MS in the sense that it's a customized version of AMD's TrueAudio, which is also in PS4. All TrueAudio blocks can be used for positional audio, as with Atmos. Fully positional audio is likely to be used extensively only in VR contexts, hence Sony's solution.
Note that Sony's use of the breakout box will, if anything, have the exact opposite effect than you're implying. Scorpio will use its built-in DSP for positional audio, freeing up its CPU for other tasks; PS4 will use the breakout box DSP for positional audio, freeing up its CPU and its built-in DSP for other tasks.
Go back and reread, the draw call stuff applies to all Xbox Ones. You're correct that they do say Scorpio's command processor has more programmability...but also that they're not using it yet.
Why is "correct" in quotes? Again, are you claiming he's factually wrong? Then post the proof.
I think you didnt understand my point. Where is the fact that DX12 did not help reduce the gap, as you mentioned?
rokkerkory
Member
Scorpio textures quality will be at least xbox one levels.
$399 = insta buy for me
$399 = insta buy for me
DriftingSpirit
Member
Amazing.
They will be much better probably. On DF reveal video they mentioned that 4k textures where using nearly 1% of raw power, so for me its a given that amost games will have 4k assets.
I wouldn't worry about what people say. I've been following your comments and they've been honest and consistent. I think that some who prefer Xbox may be a bit defensive because positive Xbox news does seem to get shit on more than it should and this has gone on for years, even after Mattrick left. So you may be experiencing the ripple effect from all of that.
I think the system will be great and even if the CPU has more customizations over other iterations, it won't necessarily be a game changer.
Edit:
Problem with his statement or the conversation is that there really wasn't a gap with the CPU s, at least not one in Sony's favor. Makes no sense to talk about any gap closing while discussing CPUs when the gap has primarily been on the GPU side.
rokkerkory
Member
Saved
blue or green pill? What I have missed?
Hawk269
Member
One of the main reasons for the extra ram was to have higher res textures. I personally think that is going to be one of the big differentiators. It is one thing to be at a raw 4k resolution, but having textures that are also 4k is what will make the difference and if what have heard that 16xAF is almost a given that will also really help with IQ.
Again, we won't know until we see actual games running, but they did not add an extra 4gigs of RAM for nothing.
paragonpro
Banned
Recore de is a given at this point and it should be a pack in title. Recore was solid and giving it to people free with their console is a great way to get the brand into more homes
Ricky Ricardo
Member
Xbox Free Range
That's fine lol. I always have two Xbox's. One for my living room and one for my office for competitive games.
SlipperyMoose
Member
Xbox Prime. It's Prime time.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Hey guys , please be neutral on any type of emotion. Let me set the expectations. Trust me I'm a G0SU. Don't be hype, but don't expect let down. embrace the semi-meh-eah face.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
Yeah, reality is usually somewhere in between crazy high and crazy low expectations. That's normal.
But there is no reason to feel "meh." The reality is it's going to be very nice looking system. Why would that make you feel "meh"?
Captain Tuttle
Member
Xbox Organic
Liabe Brave
Member
No, I understood perfectly. I thought the supporting evidence for my statement would be clear to anyone who follows technical discussions. To wit: After a period at the beginning of the gen where the gap was even wider, current "standard practice" has become PS4 versions at 1080p and XBox One versions at 900p. That's ~30% difference in pixels, which matches up pretty well with the paper difference in TFLOPs (especially once you take into account the common marginally-better effects settings on Sony's machine). So it doesn't seem that Xbox One does less GPGPU work due to CPU headroom.
On the framerate side, Xbox One occasionally does have a slight advantage. But this is far from universal. And since the Xbox One CPU is clocked very slightly higher, the effect can be more readily ascribed to that, rather than the specialized command processor offload. This point is made more trenchant by the fact that such framerate advantages are not tied only to DX12 games.
Finally, you have to keep in mind that reduced overhead in DX12 was necessary partly because DX11 had more overhead than the competing API on Sony's machine. PS4's GNM was considerably thinner and faster (and even the higher-level GNMX may have been more efficient). We know this from developer statements.
All this points to my conclusion. Of course, I don't know for certain since I'm not privy to production details. That's why I said it "seems" to be the case. Do you have any contrary evidence?
The bolded happens just about as often as we see better framerates on the XBO, which is pretty seldom really.
You're too eager to dismiss or downplay how much the command processor can help. Yes DX12 reduced overhead, but that doesn't mean that the command processor can't help in addition to the efficiencies brought on by the more refined APIs.
When surrounded by posts talking up how Scorpio is going to be a whole new generation, how it's going to outsell Xbox One S, how Ryzen is a lock, and on and on a dose of reality seems negative by comparison. It says a lot more about inflated expectations than it does about Matt's posts.
There's no question that Microsoft will have the most powerful console on the market, and I think anyone who expects Sony to introduce a new even more powerful console next year in response is utterly delusional. I also don't think Scorpio alone is going to make much difference in market share without some compelling software and that's doubtless enough to have people jumping on me for being too negative. That's the nature of perspective, where everyone sees everything relative to their own perceptions and expectations.
PeterLegend
Member
They want to make a profit on this thing, not to mention they already know most sales will come from Xbox One S. It's already too late to catch the PS4 so they might as well maximize profit margins.
hanspampel
Banned
lol the same stuff going on in 2 separate topics
jesus
jesus
Yeah. It's ridiculous.
LukasTaves
Member
I really don't know what you are getting this from. From your own link:
So Richard was told at first the game is using EQAA 2x, it wasn't something they were trying to hidden and Richard lucked out to noticed that on the image.
And then this:
The guy was pointing out to Richard the AA setting, how were they trying to hide anything?
Perhaps it's outdated info, but Ps4 I think Ps4 doesn't have True Audio:
And according to this presentation by sony, it's far less capable than what's on Xbone:
http://www. vg leaks .com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/audio1-600x360.jpg
(Had to do this because apparently vgleaks is banned)
Xbone chip isn't true audio either, it has 4 tensilica cores like the true audio, but it also has extra 4 cores. Compared to Ps4 audio block it can handle 512 audio streams *and* voice recognition at once.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-complete-xbox-one-interview
But that doesn't make sense: They put an dedicated chip in the console, and then use another dedicated chip for audio for VR... To free up the first dedicated chip from doing audio? Given the lower capacity of the audio block on Ps4 it's very likely the reason they had to put another audio chip in the box is because the one Ps4 has is not up to the task.
I did and I think you got it wrong.
First DF posted that:
They mention that DX12 reduced CPU utilization on Xbone by half (from whatever it was).
They claim that the improved processor reduces CPU utilization on Scorpio by almost 0.
Later Ms clarified that the dx12 processor isn't new to Xbone, but *reiterate* that on xbone cpu usage went down to only 50%, while on Scorpio it's trivial. If you look at the quote even before the edit that was already impled:
That's basically saying that the DX12 co processor already reduced CPU usage in shipped games on Xbone (And remember, on Xbone everything runs virtualized, and draw call costs was a massive point of criticism for developers back at launch)
They also say the command processor on Scorpio allows for a dx12 to be pushed even further on Scorpio (likely exposing a higher feature level than dx12 on xbone) and on top of that it's also more programmable which gives more control to the developers on how to benefit from it. But both the additional capability and programability aren't exposed on sdk yet.
Not to mention the article mentions a few points that I had forgotten like touching the cache to reduce latency, and improving cpu/gpu coherency (which is good for gpgpu, though they weren't clear to the kind of work that went in there to know if there's any actual gain there).
rokkerkory
Member
What if they announce 6.5 tf 
hanspampel
Banned
never had you on my radar until now, but the stuff you write seems to make sense and is good stuff to read
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