InsaneTiger
Member
I agree with this. Also, Xbox Anywhere is indeed very cool and pro-consumer but it doesn't help sell your hardware. Before I had to get an Xbox for Forza, now I can play on my PC. It's weird. #xboxnotdoomed
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June 2017 NPD (U.S. Hardware) Predictions - Closes Tuesday, July 11th
Poimandres
Member
DS didn't really take off until holiday 2015 though right?
Not that the Switch numbers are bad. They are quite good, but I wonder how much higher they would be if it wasn't for the supply issues.
theprodigy
Member
I know you meant 2005, but I'm just gonna quote this anyway.
xabbott
Member
What if hardware sales aren't the primary goal? Kind of like how Apple TV is there to extend Apple's ecosystem to the TV. It's not a major source of profits for Apple. Similar to Amazon and it's hardware.
Make money from store/content. Hardware just there to give customers more options.
Poimandres
Member
Hahaha yeah might as well leave that in there!
Welfare
Member
Alas, Photobucket no longer allows linking. The end of an era. Long live Imgur! (Pics should be working now.)
Sangetsu-II
Member
gundamkyoukai
Member
Apple still sell loads of hardware to get people into there ecosystem to begin with .
MS has windows yes but it's games store not saying much .
Most big pubs already making there moves to have there own store on PC which cuts out the middle man .
Truth is MS selling there games on PC not going to make more profit if people were buying it on consoles on DD .
wapplew
Member
Where is this MS need to turn things around narrative coming from?
Base on the revenue Xbox generated last quarter, they don't have to turn a thing.
Xbox always get similar numbers this season, just because PS4 doing exceptional doesn't mean Xbox doing bad. It still make a lot of money, could be most profitable yet.
Also, it's summer cinema season, less UHD bluray release to drive 1S sales.
Base on the revenue Xbox generated last quarter, they don't have to turn a thing.
Xbox always get similar numbers this season, just because PS4 doing exceptional doesn't mean Xbox doing bad. It still make a lot of money, could be most profitable yet.
Also, it's summer cinema season, less UHD bluray release to drive 1S sales.
Poimandres
Member
I think it was basically an acknowledgement that the XB1 wasn't going to achieve their initial sales expectations and this was the best way to make money of their investments into game development. Who knows though, maybe they would have gone through with it even if the XB1 was the market leader?
j0hnnix
Gold Member
Just wait for that Spiderman homecoming 4k HDR release ! Sales through the roof.
XB1 was basically flat YoY at the end of Q1. The problem was the weak Q2 (the worst since launch) with more than 100k YoY drop. The system lost traction and so far there isn't any sign of change, july should be another bad month in NPD.
Sales will be good in nov/dec since traditionally Xbox has great sales on holidays, there's a lot of deals and it's a strong brand in the US, but it became difficult to surpass 2016, specially with XB1 X at $499.
Sales will be good in nov/dec since traditionally Xbox has great sales on holidays, there's a lot of deals and it's a strong brand in the US, but it became difficult to surpass 2016, specially with XB1 X at $499.
The hardware is the way to access that store and that content. The W10 Store is barely used.
More XBs sold equals more customers. The more they sell, the better. This is not a factor really open to debate.
I don't think this is true.
What makes you think that?
Nightengale
Member
A hardware that is sold at:
- a loss/cost/very minimal profit
- platform with the most engaged/profitable audience
- platform that exclusively ( atm ) is the only funnel for ancillary revenue ( Gold, Pass )
Any business that runs a hardware business with the above 3 check-boxes on their hardware, and they tell you the box sales don't matter, are either incompetent or lying to you.
A company that is serious about pivoting away from the above would had prioritised decoupling services like Xbox BC and Game Pass as a console-only feature ASAP.
- a loss/cost/very minimal profit
- platform with the most engaged/profitable audience
- platform that exclusively ( atm ) is the only funnel for ancillary revenue ( Gold, Pass )
Any business that runs a hardware business with the above 3 check-boxes on their hardware, and they tell you the box sales don't matter, are either incompetent or lying to you.
A company that is serious about pivoting away from the above would had prioritised decoupling services like Xbox BC and Game Pass as a console-only feature ASAP.
Windows 10 has several millions of users, I don't think the store is barely used. Certainly is a crap store for hardcore gamers, but they aren't the only ones.
The engagement level is really very bad. Just because it exists doesn't mean people are using it.
Nightengale
Member
Major profits via Xbox hardware sales is not a goal of the broader Microsoft group.
If we look at the scale of Xbox as a whole, the reason MS is in games is because gaming is an important segment to be in when it comes to digital software & services, and it is a space where they are a major competitor in a space that is effectively an oligopoly.
But within the Xbox organisation itself, the way the business is run ( low-margin, constant deals, console-exclusive features, high-profile hardware pushes via S/X, positioning of major titles in heavy hardware months ) is emblematic of a company that wants their product to have strong sales.
A company is what they do, not what they say. To make a different comparison, it's foolish to say that Sony doesn't care for BC, when they've made a lot of different investments in back-catalogue games, be it remaster PS1 games for PS4, relatively high-investments in remasters/remakes and the existence of PSNow/its continued existence.
What the difference is; is that Sony is greedier with their BC-initiatives and want to resell the games to you, instead of making it available to you the same way Xbox does with 360/OG BC.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Only if you assume that there's some kind of positive correlation between hardware sales, MAUs, software sales and subscribers...
I agree that there's some impact on sales due to XOX, but on the other hand those interested in a high-end, premium-priced console are probably in another buyer segment then those purchasing discounted consoles 4,5 years after its launch.
Humdinger
Member
Cool. I love charts.
Can we get a simple one of just PS4 vs. Xbox One totals over time?
As far as games are concerned it's 5th on Amazon with only MK8D, BotW(NSW), Horizon Zero Dawn and BotW(WiiU) ahead of it. I think tomorrow it should overtake BotW(WiiU) and over the weekend move into a position closer to Horizon. The main question is if it will keep selling like the debut and overtake Horizon during August.
What is the street price for Switch in US and can you go to shop and pick it or do you need to wait for restock?
Here I can go to shop and buy it for the price of 349,90€ incl taxes (Webpage is in Finnish). Too bad its so pricey, I hope that it gets price reduction in EU some day.
Here I can go to shop and buy it for the price of 349,90€ incl taxes (Webpage is in Finnish). Too bad its so pricey, I hope that it gets price reduction in EU some day.
I know that I probably shouldn't respond to a typical wapplew troll comment...
From the absolutely abysmal Xbox One hardware numbers this previous quarter in its most important region? Just imagine how the EU numbers look...
So there's a Gaming category in recent MS financial reports, there is no Xbox category anymore.
Is the Gaming category 100% Xbox? I don't think it is.
lol
From the absolutely abysmal Xbox One hardware numbers this previous quarter in its most important region? Just imagine how the EU numbers look...
So there's a Gaming category in recent MS financial reports, there is no Xbox category anymore.
Is the Gaming category 100% Xbox? I don't think it is.
lol
Correct.
We don't know if Switch demand is comparable to Wii, what we know for sure is that Nintendo was unable in the first few months to produce enough Switch stocks to match Wii first few months.
Of course Phil Spencer is a human being. I don't believe he sits atop a skullthrone, twirling a mustache whilst pressing a button titled -Announce Game X and Cancel it in Six Months - because he gets off on it. What I do believe, is that he's a man doing his job and he has a PR department that he confers with and the research has shown that he's a) charismatic and b) the base are desperate to believe what he says.
At the end of the day, it's his livelihood. Adopting the 'I'm a gamer, honest!!! I'm just like you!' persona is part of that job so he can keep it and provide for his family. He'll tweet out whatever and say whatever with zero fucks given because that's what works.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
I'm comparison to Sony
I'm curious to see how third-party marketing deals play out for Xbox in 2018. With the hardware gap really starting to open up in the U.S. (and obviously the rest of the world as well), I would imagine the cost for Microsoft to continue securing these deals goes up every month.
Perhaps it's taken some time but I think the cumulative effect of these deals from Sony plus their hardware price on top of the strong lineup of current and future exclusive games is really limiting Microsoft's ability to gain new users on the low/casual end at this point in the generation. From that perspective, the Xbox One X makes a little more sense for MS to try and gain more users on the high/premium end of the market. The only problem there is PC tends to dominate that end of the market leaving Xbox boxed in to focus on their existing users or people like them that can be swayed into the Xbox ecosystem.
Perhaps it's taken some time but I think the cumulative effect of these deals from Sony plus their hardware price on top of the strong lineup of current and future exclusive games is really limiting Microsoft's ability to gain new users on the low/casual end at this point in the generation. From that perspective, the Xbox One X makes a little more sense for MS to try and gain more users on the high/premium end of the market. The only problem there is PC tends to dominate that end of the market leaving Xbox boxed in to focus on their existing users or people like them that can be swayed into the Xbox ecosystem.
Chobel
Member
It's crap for everyone.
By this metric, Sony is the undisputed conqueror of the mobile market
We're starting to see hints of that trend with FIFA marketing now going to Sony.
The $400 million NFL marketing deal helmed by Phil Spencer should expire next year, so I predict that'll be interesting to see play out.
How exactly are MS conquering PC gaming?
Primethius
Banned
It certainly does seem like 2017 is going to be peak PS4 sales. While I expect holidays to be down (Nov maybe, Dec likely), I think the combination of Destiny 2 and other big hitters in earlier months is more than enough to offset that.
Not much to say about XB1 sales. I've believed that MS doesn't really know how to course correct their actual issues and have been haphazardly focusing on the XB1X way more than they need to. That seems to be becoming increasingly clear as they still haven't done much outside of placating their core.
I look forward to a repeat of last years performance of, "see how important UHD Bluray playback is? Sony fucked up. Momentum!" in a different packaging as XB1X sales start strong and taper off into irrelevancy.
Not much to say about XB1 sales. I've believed that MS doesn't really know how to course correct their actual issues and have been haphazardly focusing on the XB1X way more than they need to. That seems to be becoming increasingly clear as they still haven't done much outside of placating their core.
I look forward to a repeat of last years performance of, "see how important UHD Bluray playback is? Sony fucked up. Momentum!" in a different packaging as XB1X sales start strong and taper off into irrelevancy.
I honestly don't think so. I feel the Xbox One would be doing pretty similar right now even if the Nintendo Switch didn't launch this year.
This has been the worst period in the Xbox One's life for game releases in my opinion; There's been nothing in the retail space to really differentiate the Xbox One from the PS4.
Sales will obviously pick up during the second half of this year alongside the major Fall/Holiday games, bundles, and One X but I definitely agree with others that the first half of this year for Xbox was ho-hum (and played a role in why I thought MS would make more major announcements alongside the Xbox One X though the year isn't over yet).
____________________
That deal was far more about coaches and athlets using Microsoft tablets than the Xbox One having NFL apps; It was far bigger than just Xbox and I'm not sure why people here bring up the deal in that fashion (though maybe since this is a gaming forum).
I don't see any signs of the partnership compeltely ending after 2018. If anything, NFL coaches and players are so used to Surface tablets now that the NFL wouldn't want to split up. I also want to say that it has been more than a year since MS gave any attention to their NFL Xbox apps anyway.
Theslammer
Member
I haven't taken too close a look month to month to know for sure, but my impression is that it's helped to expand the market as hardware sales have been up despite being supply-constrained on Switch's end.
WhatWeLeftBehind
Member
Are people really this fucking insane when they're suggesting the Switch numbers are bad?
By this point both the 3DS and Wii U were not only not selling, they were causing Nintendo to lose money. For every Switch made, people are buying the thing right of the shelf. Every 3DS and Wii U just kept sitting there, an investment Nintendo never made back.
Yes the stock levels are bad, but of all the problems Nintendo can have(and they've had quite a few) the shortages are a GOOD PROBLEM to have. Something that most of the arm chair CEO's here can't/don't want to understand.
Has anybody ever seen the DISASTROUS may numbers the 3DS put up in 2011. Look at those and then tell me with a straight face that the Switch isn't doing well.
By this point both the 3DS and Wii U were not only not selling, they were causing Nintendo to lose money. For every Switch made, people are buying the thing right of the shelf. Every 3DS and Wii U just kept sitting there, an investment Nintendo never made back.
Yes the stock levels are bad, but of all the problems Nintendo can have(and they've had quite a few) the shortages are a GOOD PROBLEM to have. Something that most of the arm chair CEO's here can't/don't want to understand.
Has anybody ever seen the DISASTROUS may numbers the 3DS put up in 2011. Look at those and then tell me with a straight face that the Switch isn't doing well.
... But who's saying Switch isn't doing well? All I've seen is that Switch is doing well but is handicapped by supply.
Woop! Top 10 2k17 😎.
It's not like these companies have said something but when they are happy they go against what they said previously. Making ads for winning 3 or so months in a roll on NPD and calling it "The best selling console" sure aren't signs of not "caring".
X360/PS3/Wii have "millions" of users too 😉🤔.
OrbitalBeard
Member
If I wasn't on mobile, I'd be posting the Jim Carey "who are you talking to?" gif right about now.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Agreed.
I think the games/general appeal situation for Xbox is the big problem and the Switch is just accentuating that rather than being a big cause on its own. Xbox usually has rather poor post-holidays sales anyway.
I figure the same will happen with X partially because of the momentum from holidays not being carried along beyond that. Sony had the launch/holiday momentum from Pro and then helped carried it along afterward with a big visual game in Horizon and also promoted other games with great visuals (Spider-Man and God of War).
MS needs several big games that have great visuals and a great hook that are exclusive or at least heavily associated with their platform. They just don't have that though. Plus, they aren't as aggressive with deals and promotions post-holiday and Sony has the majority of third party deals, while also being the period in which Sony usually releases their biggest exclusives of the year. And, as mentioned above, Switch certainly isn't helping even if the impact may not be as big as some think. It just leaves the X out there by itself to sell itself in a really tough environment.
To be fair, it isn't like X was going to, or supposed to, sell a ton of units. It is just another way to gain more revenue from the base they already have. It is just that the potential to do better than expected (like Pro) is squandered because of the situation it is releasing in.
One of the most deceptives gaming ads I have seen in recent times.
Papacheeks
Banned
If this were their true intent they wouldn't be spending so much money on R &D on re-engineering the original xbox to the xbox one s and making the xbox one X.
Also their storefront wouldn't be a complete shit show, and their xbox app would be much more PC oriented in design if it were to become the main platform to be on tv/pc.
WhatWeLeftBehind
Member
I've seen people take that point and magnify it to mean that the launch is still being screwed up somehow. It's not uncommon to find posters saying something along the lines of 'fix these supply issues, it's ruining your launch'.
Taking into account the issues we've heard being reported by the WSJ, along with how long it takes to adjust issues with the supply chain and it just comes off as people looking for new ways to doom and gloom about either the Switch or Nintendo. It gets really annoying in either this thread or the media create threads, etc.
See above.
But at the moment it looks that instead of waiting for the Xbox One X people just bought PS4. I don't think there are many people "in the mainstream" who would postpone their purchase to get something in six months for over twice the price. People usually wait to get things cheaper.
mejin
Member
Well, if you're not like a friend of mine who said if switch wasn't supply constrained it'd sell a million I'm game. lol
Switch is doing really good, but I hope Nintendo fix this situation till this Fall. People deserve to have it without paying inflated prices just because of this low offer. Living here in Brazil we can get a switch easily via Paraguay but as you said at a high price. It's not worth it and that's why there are several in the shelves.
Wonder if the Pro is seeing in increase in sales because of this.
Like I said before...only way I can see many doing that for One X is for a next gen system.
Doing that for a mid gen refresh? That might wind up being $150 more than the Pro and $300 more than the cheapest One S bundle if those 2 get price cuts?
About the Switch...yea it is nice knowing its already tracking ahead of the Wii U. Like well ahead. Ahead of the 3DS too. Close to Wii numbers..
Yea..its safe to say the Switch is a hit. Still early but I would call it. Once ppl can actually buy one with no waits, detective work....no over priced bundles...man...