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[rjinaz]

I like how this thread is now about violence and killings against police officers.

"Before you shed an ounce of pity for this almost man, let's take a moment to remember all the brave police officers that have fallen in the line of duty."

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

Both lines of thought are true. No need to use this young mans tragedy as a jumping off point for revolution.

Why not? Seriously.

 

[Beefy]

I havent defended the cops in this situation at all. Read my posts.
I dont know what happened here. If he pointed the gun at someone it was justified. If not it was not justified. That is the fact of the matter, no matter what anyone says.

If he shot him for no reason he is scum, if he shot him to preserve life he was doing his job. Nobody knows at this point so there is no point in speculating.

In no scenario would I ever side with an unjustified shooter. Or someone who used excessive force. You all seem to want a pariah to jump on, Im just stating objective facts. Calling for violence against innocent officers is wrong, doesn't mean I do not think the act was abhorrent.

To preserve life? It was a bb gun

 

[Derwind]

The cops chose their profession and all the inherent risks involved. The public at no time chose the inherent risk of having a poorly trained & racially bias trigger happy law enforcement.(There's enough of a police defense force in America in this thread to hold the second statement as false).

I like how this thread is now about violence and killings against police officers.

"Before you shed an ounce of pity for this almost man, let's take a moment to remember all the brave police officers that have fallen in the line of duty."

Careful, it almost sounds like you have an agenda! /s

Seriously though, how this thread as gone so far to the right is insane.

 

[GKnight]

That's rich coming from someone that has shown zero sympathy for the 16 year old victim in this case.

That's some offensive BS, from every one of you with the delusion to say so, and is one hell of an accusation to make.

I understand you are angry and are looking for someone to attack but that is going way too far.

 

[Merc_]

I havent defended the cops in this situation at all. Read my posts.
I dont know what happened here. If he pointed the gun at someone it was justified. If not it was not justified. That is the fact of the matter, no matter what anyone says.

If he shot him for no reason he is scum, if he shot him to preserve life he was doing his job. Nobody knows at this point so there is no point in speculating.

In no scenario would I ever side with an unjustified shooter. Or someone who used excessive force. You all seem to want a pariah to jump on, Im just stating objective facts. Calling for violence against innocent officers is wrong, doesn't mean I do not think the act was abhorrent.

This whole thread derail you started is a tactic you're using to defend the cops. You aren't slick pal.

 

[Slayven]

I like how this thread is now about violence and killings against police officers.

"Before you shed an ounce of pity for this almost man, let's take a moment to remember all the brave police officers that have fallen in the line of duty."

That is white supremacy at it's finest, a minorities death used to prop up the institutions that lead to it.

 

[EdibleKnife]

I don't see people here condemning a call for the retaliatory killings of police officers simply for the uniform they wear. I don't think it is too taxing to both condemn police violence against innocent black people AND condemn violence against police officers.

And people do. If you want to spank Straight Edge, do it yourself. But don't act like the people who'd rather ignore him are all for violence against police just because. The topic and the greater conversation is about how people in power and with the authority to kill continue to abuse that power against minority citizens. There are multiple topics about BLM, Indivisible, Campaign Zero and a wealth of efforts about trying to address this and they get ignored while people like yourself continue to pick at tragedies like Dallas as an indication that things are warped on both sides. Police are advocated for. At multiple levels of society. That goes without question. Teenagers and black victims of police brutality in general like in the topic aren't, which is why their plight gets the focus.

 

[Mahonay]

That's some offensive BS, from every one of you with the delusion to say so, and is one hell of an accusation to make.

I understand you are angry and are looking for someone to attack but that is going way too far.

You've brought up dogs in a discussion about people (black people specifically) being wrongfully killed by police.

If you're not trying to piss people off you're doing a poor job.

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

As police get away with more and more crimes the amount of people who sympathize when cops get shot will shrink.

 

[tearsintherain]

A revolution is what is needed tho. Way to many bruvas and sisters get killed by cops and fuck all is done. Something needs to happen.

"Something" is happening daily across the united states, and the hard working people who work daily to reform the 18,000 police departments across the country are the ones who are the untalked about heroes who will get the system changed, not internet forum threads.
http://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-richmond-pd-20150503-story.html
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...en_a_model_for_reducing_officer_involved.html
https://qz.com/565011/how-one-of-the-largest-police-forces-in-america-stopped-shooting-people/

There are hundreds of other examples, but its a process that is going to take years and years and will never be perfect. It also requires citizens to get involved and talk and protest and vote at the local level.

The police environment has been built up the way it is now over hundreds of years and its insane to think you can change it all over a period of just a year or a decade or even a lifetime.

I'm not even sure what can happen in the south, the entire system seems impossible to change in many areas of the country.

 

[GKnight]

To preserve life? It was a bb gun

Yeah, which is why this was a terrible tragedy that should not have happened.
But it was reported as a real gun and looked like a real gun so it gets treated like a real gun.

I am the first proponent of developing some kind of technology that can detect whether a gun is real or not, or loaded or not, but nothing like that exists at the moment.

 

[Merc_]

That's some offensive BS, from every one of you with the delusion to say so, and is one hell of an accusation to make.

I understand you are angry and are looking for someone to attack but that is going way too far.

No, it's the truth and it's easy to see from every one of your posts in this thread. You don't give a single shit about the child this thread is about and it's why all your posts are all about apologizing for the police and bringing up events that have nothing to do with the situation in the OP.

 

[theWB27]

I havent defended the cops in this situation at all. Read my posts.
I dont know what happened here. If he pointed the gun at someone it was justified. If not it was not justified. That is the fact of the matter, no matter what anyone says.

If he shot him for no reason he is scum, if he shot him to preserve life he was doing his job. Nobody knows at this point so there is no point in speculating.

In no scenario would I ever side with an unjustified shooter. Or someone who used excessive force. You all seem to want a pariah to jump on, Im just stating objective facts. Calling for violence against innocent officers is wrong, doesn't mean I do not think the act was abhorrent.

Believe me you aren't a pariah. You are misunderstanding a fact. Just tell me if you understand this....cops are granted so much impunity to their actions along with institutionalized racism being very much a fact here that siding with cops as a first resort is a big reason any effort to clean this up is not an option.

But see...the reasons cops can use being scared as a good enough reason to justify their shooting is because they have a ton of people like you who side with waiting despite the overwhelming evidence that facts mean nothing when it comes to holding them accountable when they shoot people.

Do you understand why people pile on posters who tell us to wait or try and make up their own scenario when these things keep happening? You've changed the narrative from being about the kid to the cops and defending them.

Do you understand that?

 

[Mahonay]

Yeah, which is why this was a terrible tragedy that should not have happened.
But it was reported as a real gun and looked like a real gun so it gets treated like a real gun.

I am the first proponent of developing some kind of technology that can detect whether a gun is real or not, or loaded or not, but nothing like that exists at the moment.

How about the cutting edge technology of maybe not shooting someone in the back of the head because you're nervous.

 

[norm9]

I am the first proponent of developing some kind of technology that can detect whether a gun is real or not, or loaded or not, but nothing like that exists at the moment.

A cheaper alternative is to assess and de-escalate, instead of no scoping these people.

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

Yeah, which is why this was a terrible tragedy that should not have happened.
But it was reported as a real gun and looked like a real gun so it gets treated like a real gun.

I am the first proponent of developing some kind of technology that can detect whether a gun is real or not, or loaded or not, but nothing like that exists at the moment.

And you're still ignoring the fact that white people brandishing actual real guns have been avoided getting shot by the police. Why?

 

[GKnight]

You've brought up dogs in a discussion about people (black people specifically) being wrongfully killed by police.

If you're not trying to piss people off you're doing a poor job.

I looked at a website showing how many officers died. It said 72, 82 if you count K-9. I literally just posted what I read.

And in case you didn't read the post I responded to it said "people are morally absolved regardless of what they do to police now"

That person was the only poster that should have replied to me. Instead I got dogpiled by 100 angry people who didn't even consider what I was responding to. That is pretty sad.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I don't think I remember that but I'm not surprised


I'm entirely sure they brag about the most fucked up ways they kill someone and the younger, the "better" for them.

Why do you feel the need to fantasize about what a cop might or might not do? That's just as bad as denying that cops murder people.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Zachary Hammond: NeoGAF
& BLM
Dylan Noble: NeoGAF
& BLM
Justine Damond: NeoGAF
& BLM




North Carolina Man Arrested After Brandishing Shotgun At Passing Cars & Shooting Pistol At Deputy
Man With Airsoft Gun Is Arrested After 6 Hour Standoff

Boy, crazepharmacist disappeared real quick after this post.

 

[Slayven]

Boy, crazepharmacist disappeared real quick after this post.

Funny how that happens. BLM doing more for white victims then All Lives Matter

 

[Mahonay]

And you're still ignoring the fact that white people brandishing actual real guns have been avoided getting shot by the police. Why?

Those armed militia men who took over a federal building in Oregon were just TRUE AMERICANS.

Spoiler

/s, obviously

 

[GKnight]

And you're still ignoring the fact that white people brandishing actual real guns have been avoided getting shot by the police. Why?

You act like I dont believe there is a racial bias both in police officers and society. Im a criminology student I have seen the statistics, I know what they are.
That wasn't relevant in my discussion.
FYI any white person who points a gun at someone should be shot. Im not sure of the circumstances in which this hasn't happened, but I 100% acknowledge that the police especially in The United States are racist against the black community.

Here in Canada it is our Indigenous population that gets the brunt of the racist bias of law enforcement.

 

[Mahonay]

You act like I dont believe there is a racial bias both in police officers and society. Im a criminology student I have seen the statistics, I know what they are.
That wasn't relevant in my discussion.
FYI any white person who points a gun at someone should be shot. Im not sure of the circumstances in which this hasn't happened, but I 100% acknowledge that the police especially in The United States are racist against the black community.

Here in Canada it is our Indigenous population that gets the brunt of the racist bias of law enforcement.

Oh my god it's always the Canadians lol

Sorry but it's been happening a lot lately. Canadians making their controversial stand on an American issue.

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

You act like I dont believe there is a racial bias both in police officers and society. Im a criminology student I have seen the statistics, I know what they are.
That wasn't relevant in my discussion.
FYI any white person who points a gun at someone should be shot. Im not sure of the circumstances in which this hasn't happened, but I 100% acknowledge that the police especially in The United States are racist against the black community.

Here in Canada it is our Indigenous population that gets the brunt of the racist bias of law enforcement.

So what should be done about the racial bias after we have your dream fantasy gun-detecting tech?
Oh, and Canada? And you want to try and talk about our race issues? Get the fuck out of here.

 

[GKnight]

Believe me you aren't a pariah. You are misunderstanding a fact. Just tell me if you understand this....cops are granted so much impunity to their actions along with institutionalized racism being very much a fact here that siding with cops as a first resort is a big reason any effort to clean this up is not an option.

But see...the reasons cops can use being scared as a good enough reason to justify their shooting is because they have a ton of people like you who side with waiting despite the overwhelming evidence that facts mean nothing when it comes to holding them accountable when they shoot people.

Do you understand why people pile on posters who tell us to wait or try and make up their own scenario when these things keep happening? You've changed the narrative from being about the kid to the cops and defending them.

Do you understand that?

The impunity is 100% wrong and my perspective is skewed because I am not American. The only unjustified shooting case I remember in recent memory near me involved a boy on a streetcar with a knife and the police officer ended up getting charged.

I am 100% in agreeable with him being charged by the way, as I watched the video and was of the opinion that the shooting was not necessary to end the situation.

Again, the post that made everyone so mad was me replying to a poster saying people should be allowed to do anything they want to police officers now. In no way was I commenting on this case, or the wider state of police shootings in America.

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

The impunity is 100% wrong and my perspective is skewed because I am not American. The only unjustified shooting case I remember in recent memory near me involved a boy on a streetcar with a knife and the police officer ended up getting charged.

I am 100% in agreeable with him being charged by the way, as I watched the video and was of the opinion that the shooting was not necessary to end the situation.

Again, the post that made everyone so mad was me replying to a poster saying people should be allowed to do anything they want to police officers now. In no way was I commenting on this case, or the wider state of police shootings in America.

You're being disingenuous again. That poster that you reply to did not say that people should be allowed to do anything they want to police officers. That poster said that they personally do not care about what happens to police officers. Now you really felt the need to hone in on this post specifically, my guess is because someone not caring about dead pigs must send you into a tizzy.

Funny how you care so much about that and not what this thread is actually about

 

[theWB27]

]The impunity is 100% wrong and my perspective is skewed because I am not American. [/B]The only unjustified shooting case I remember in recent memory near me involved a boy on a streetcar with a knife and the police officer ended up getting charged.

I am 100% in agreeable with him being charged by the way, as I watched the video and was of the opinion that the shooting was not necessary to end the situation.

Again, the post that made everyone so mad was me replying to a poster saying people should be allowed to do anything they want to police officers now. In no way was I commenting on this case, or the wider state of police shootings in America.

Cool...lets me know where you stand. You stated a fact and crushed it in the same sentence by admitting you've no idea what the hell is going on over here.

All I can say is do some research so that your view can hopefully become more sympathetic to the ones who have an institution geared towards fucking them over at every turn as opposed to the badge who have the exact opposite.

Until we get more people against it the cop union will continue to fight the good fight.

 

[EdibleKnife]

FYI any white person who points a gun at someone should be shot.

I'm a Black American and a BLM supporter to boot. Here's where you and I differ: I don't believe this to always be true. In fact, I've already pointed out multiple occasions where police have done better and gone above and beyond to try and settle incidents involving guns without any bloodshed. I expect more from law enforcement. I expect them not to rush to fatal choices to resolve conflicts particularly with their wealth of non-fatal options. I expect a society where if police can work hard to spare the lives of gun-toting white people, that same consideration should be spent on black people as well. And if that cannot happen, I expect swift and appropriate punishment rather than pussyfooting around and granting leniency to police officers who are violently negligent just because they are police officers. That's the kind of society I want. These topics are never about me wanting white people to be shot just as much as black people or wanting white suffering as vengeance for black oppression at all.

 

[BrutishMrFish]

Your comment brings up a question.

Is reform more costly than continously dealing with lawsuits? If not its clear that the corruption runs extremely deep, but I think thats obvious since a lot of the time these weasels get caught and the kitchen starts getting too hot, they slither away into some new position where they still have some kind of power over the lives of minorities.

I'm not sure how accurate this comparison is, but settlements cost Chicago $210 million from 2012 to 2015 (about $70 million per year over three years) or $662 million since 2004 (around $50.9 million per year over 13 years), while compliance with a federal probe to meet standards cost $1.4 million in one year. I can't imagine implementing actual reforms would be nearly that cheap, but it was the closest thing I could find, and I also can't imagine that reforms would be as costly as the lawsuits in the long run.

 

[R0ckman]

"Something" is happening daily across the united states, and the hard working people who work daily to reform the 18,000 police departments across the country are the ones who are the untalked about heroes who will get the system changed, not internet forum threads.
http://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-richmond-pd-20150503-story.html
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...en_a_model_for_reducing_officer_involved.html
https://qz.com/565011/how-one-of-the-largest-police-forces-in-america-stopped-shooting-people/

There are hundreds of other examples, but its a process that is going to take years and years and will never be perfect. It also requires citizens to get involved and talk and protest and vote at the local level.

The police environment has been built up the way it is now over hundreds of years and its insane to think you can change it all over a period of just a year or a decade or even a lifetime.

I'm not even sure what can happen in the south, the entire system seems impossible to change in many areas of the country.

A lot of what was in the second article wouldn't be a problem if they didn't diliberately hire either corrupt people or people with lower IQs. You shouldn't be a cop if you need to be trained to keep your bias in check on the job.

 

[GKnight]

So what should be done about the racial bias after we have your dream fantasy gun-detecting tech?
Oh, and Canada? And you want to try and talk about our race issues? Get the fuck out of here.

You honestly want me to answer that question or are you being fesiscious?

Because most law enforcement agencies need to be rebuilt from the ground up. Buy out any older officers with any history of problems, rehire a new diverse force with a new training program designed from the ground up to strengthen community bonds and teach use of force with incredibly excessive simulation, fail anyone who shows excessive implicit bias in simulation towards any racial group.

But of course there are unions, budgets and most disappointingly a lot of the old people in power in the agencies dont even have the desire to implement these changes.

 

[GKnight]

You're being disingenuous again. That poster that you reply to did not say that people should be allowed to do anything they want to police officers. That poster said that they personally do not care about what happens to police officers. Now you really felt the need to hone in on this post specifically, my guess is because someone not caring about dead pigs must send you into a tizzy.

Funny how you care so much about that and not what this thread is actually about

To be fair, you all attacked my position and now when I defend myself you attack my character and say I dont give a damn about dying children.

Im sorry but that's shameful.

 

[Sai-kun]

literally (figuratively) saying 'but what about dead dogs' in a thread about a kid dying says a lot about how much u care about the topic at hand

hope this helps

 

[theignoramus]

So just to paint a picture, suspect is walking towards a community center holding what looks like a gun and is not complying with your request to put the gun down. What do you do? Let him walk into the building and shoot the place up?

I wouldnt shoot him in the back of the head, thats for damn sure. Ive seen cops communicate with armed, erratically behaving suspects from behind a position of cover, so spare me your bullshit about how they couldnt have done that.

 

[theignoramus]

Talk to him? Establish that he isn't a threat? Nah, easier to shoot a child (I will continue to emphasize this fact) in the skull.

With his back turned. The sheer amount of cowardice from these cops is unbelievable. If someone tried to defend this shit in front of my face with the type of cop apologist excuses Ive seen from "crazepharmacist" I'd be tempted to fight them.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I won't even let kids in my family pick up toy guns while in the store if their parents aren't around and I'm watching them. They are usually oblivious and even in the store I think it could be dangerous, orange tip and all. I freaked out when I saw one just waving a toy gun around they found in another area.

 

[Frozenprince]

Thread about mentally ill black child being shot to death and we get black people and dogs are equal.

And y'all wonder why the default answer too "we just need to talk to then" is laughter at the proposition.

Somebodies baby is fucking DEAD and you're equating him to a damn animal.

 

[F34R]

I'm going to start of with saying that I'll judge more about what happened after the info that will be released Wednesday comes out. I can't trust the media to tell me what happened.

What I can say is that it is terrible that a teenager died. Doesn't matter how it happened, or why, it happened, and it is one of the most terrible things that happens. I feel so much for this young mans family right now.

Another thing I want to address is the comparison talk. Showing links to other instances where someone wasn't shot, was talked down to give up, etc. I'll give a few examples of why that just isn't logical at all.

I'll preface with no two situations are the same. Period. I'm going to write out some examples of the only two deaths that happened in my jurisdiction over 13 years, along side a couple of examples of two incidents that two individuals could have been shot, and justifiably so.

Example 1
Late in the evening: Called to a domestic dispute involving an African-American male, yelling at others and carrying a pistol with him threatening people in the house. Officers arrive, park about 20 yards from the house at angles and use their cars for cover. Talked to the lady who made the call and she explained what was going on. The man kept coming out on the porch waiving his gun around as he was yelling, basically making hand gestures while talking, while holding the gun. The officers tried several times to get him to put the gun down, and he would just walk back inside. He then comes out, points the gun directly towards where one of the officers was, two handed aiming, and he was shot by the other officer. He died.

Example 2
Late in the evening: Attempting to make a traffic stop for an erratic driver. Driver refuses to pull over for a few miles, speeding through a neighborhood, weaving around in the lanes. Pulls over, gets out and runs. It's not very well lit, so finding where the guy was wasn't easy. More officers arrived in the area, set up a perimeter, and the offender is looked for. One officer found him on the porch of a residence, that wasn't his. Office asked him several times to put his hands up, and come down from the porch. The man does this at first. When he gets near the officer, he rushes the officer. A really bad fight started. The offender was 6'6" about 280lbs. Officer was 5'10" 220. The struggle ensues and the officer tries to radio for help. The man grabs the officers radio and starts beating him with it. Really messes the officer up. Bad head injury. Officer was able to get his gun out of the holster, get it in between the two of them and fire one shot. They were so close together at that point, the round couldn't even be ejected. The man died.

Example 3
Mid-day: Called to a house for a mentally ill person, African-American male. The mother called and said her son was acting very strange and aggressive, and wouldn't leave the house. He didn't live there at this point. She said he was staying in his room, and charging with a wooden bat at anyone that comes in the hallway. Two officers arrive. One officer is trying to make contact with the son, while the other officer is getting everyone out of the house and keep everyone calm. After everyone is out, second officer comes back in. Standing in the living room, officer 1 tries to talk to him and calm him down. He comes out several times saying he's going to get "you". Calmly, officer 1 continues asking what he needs, what's wrong, and is there anything that can be done to help. Suddenly, man comes out of room, charges down the hall way. Officer 1 yells STOP, while at the same time pulls out tazer, officer two didn't have tazer so he pulled out firearm. The man stops about ten feet short. They lock eyes for about two minutes and the officer 1 asks man to please drop the bat. Eventually man drops bat, and handcuff procedure is followed (sir turn around, hands up walk back,etc.). The man is taking to the hospital for a psychiatric evaluation.

Example 4
Mid-day: Police are called about an African-American male beating his girlfriend. Officer 1 gets there and woman meets officer two houses down from the incident location. She's in tears, blood coming from her mouth and nose. She explained what happened, and where the subject was. Officer starts going to the residence and sees the man running past the window from the back door, with something in his hand, towards the front door. Officer gets to the front door as it opens and the man steps to the threshold with an axe in one hand and a sword in the other hand. Officer immediately draws weapon and yells "Don't Move". Man doesn't move at this point and the two weapons are pointed at the officer but the mans arms are completely handing by his side. The officer tells the man to drop the weapons, and do not move otherwise. The two are only 6 feet away from each other. Officer repeats request, and told the guy to please drop them and not make this worse than it already is, they can work it out. Man eventually drops weapons, follows instructions and is arrested.

All four of these happened in the same jurisdiction. What's the differences though? How did they not all end the same way?

My hope was to always be able to remedy a situation where no one gets hurt. The only way to do that is if everyone involved shares that same mentality. Unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't work like that.

Now, let me say that none of this has anything to do with the incident that is the reason the thread was made. No defense for cops, no marginalizing what happened to that poor kid, etc. Just a little bit of info to give others some though on how things are, and how things aren't. I'll be able to comment more on the officers involved in the OP situation when more info is released.

I'm more than willing to answer any questions anyone has.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I won't even let kids in my family pick up toy guns while in the store if their parents aren't around and I'm watching them. They are usually oblivious and even in the store I think it could be dangerous, orange tip and all. I freaked out when I saw one just waving a toy gun around they found in another area.

Makes sense, I mean we saw a guy get killed on camera for having a toy shotgun he got picked up off a shelf while in Walmart. He had it at his side like a cane just standing there clearly not a threat in any capacity and police still shot him first asked questions never.

 

[theWB27]

I'm going to start of with saying that I'll judge more about what happened after the info that will be released Wednesday comes out. I can't trust the media to tell me what happened.

What I can say is that it is terrible that a teenager died. Doesn't matter how it happened, or why, it happened, and it is one of the most terrible things that happens. I feel so much for this young mans family right now.

Another thing I want to address is the comparison talk. Showing links to other instances where someone wasn't shot, was talked down to give up, etc. I'll give a few examples of why that just isn't logical at all.

I'll preface with no two situations are the same. Period. I'm going to write out some examples of the only two deaths that happened in my jurisdiction over 13 years, along side a couple of examples of two incidents that two individuals could have been shot, and justifiably so.

Example 1
Late in the evening: Called to a domestic dispute involving an African-American male, yelling at others and carrying a pistol with him threatening people in the house. Officers arrive, park about 20 yards from the house at angles and use their cars for cover. Talked to the lady who made the call and she explained what was going on. The man kept coming out on the porch waiving his gun around as he was yelling, basically making hand gestures while talking, while holding the gun. The officers tried several times to get him to put the gun down, and he would just walk back inside. He then comes out, points the gun directly towards where one of the officers was, two handed aiming, and he was shot by the other officer. He died.

Example 2
Late in the evening: Attempting to make a traffic stop for an erratic driver. Driver refuses to pull over for a few miles, speeding through a neighborhood, weaving around in the lanes. Pulls over, gets out and runs. It's not very well lit, so finding where the guy was wasn't easy. More officers arrived in the area, set up a perimeter, and the offender is looked for. One officer found him on the porch of a residence, that wasn't his. Office asked him several times to put his hands up, and come down from the porch. The man does this at first. When he gets near the officer, he rushes the officer. A really bad fight started. The offender was 6'6" about 280lbs. Officer was 5'10" 220. The struggle ensues and the officer tries to radio for help. The man grabs the officers radio and starts beating him with it. Really messes the officer up. Bad head injury. Officer was able to get his gun out of the holster, get it in between the two of them and fire one shot. They were so close together at that point, the round couldn't even be ejected. The man died.

Example 3
Mid-day: Called to a house for a mentally ill person, African-American male. The mother called and said her son was acting very strange and aggressive, and wouldn't leave the house. He didn't live there at this point. She said he was staying in his room, and charging with a wooden bat at anyone that comes in the hallway. Two officers arrive. One officer is trying to make contact with the son, while the other officer is getting everyone out of the house and keep everyone calm. After everyone is out, second officer comes back in. Standing in the living room, officer 1 tries to talk to him and calm him down. He comes out several times saying he's going to get "you". Calmly, officer 1 continues asking what he needs, what's wrong, and is there anything that can be done to help. Suddenly, man comes out of room, charges down the hall way. Officer 1 yells STOP, while at the same time pulls out tazer, officer two didn't have tazer so he pulled out firearm. The man stops about ten feet short. They lock eyes for about two minutes and the officer 1 asks man to please drop the bat. Eventually man drops bat, and handcuff procedure is followed (sir turn around, hands up walk back,etc.). The man is taking to the hospital for a psychiatric evaluation.

Example 4
Mid-day: Police are called about an African-American male beating his girlfriend. Officer 1 gets there and woman meets officer two houses down from the incident location. She's in tears, blood coming from her mouth and nose. She explained what happened, and where the subject was. Officer starts going to the residence and sees the man running past the window from the back door, with something in his hand, towards the front door. Officer gets to the front door as it opens and the man steps to the threshold with an axe in one hand and a sword in the other hand. Officer immediately draws weapon and yells "Don't Move". Man doesn't move at this point and the two weapons are pointed at the officer but the mans arms are completely handing by his side. The officer tells the man to drop the weapons, and do not move otherwise. The two are only 6 feet away from each other. Officer repeats request, and told the guy to please drop them and not make this worse than it already is, they can work it out. Man eventually drops weapons, follows instructions and is arrested.

All four of these happened in the same jurisdiction. What's the differences though? How did they not all end the same way?

My hope was to always be able to remedy a situation where no one gets hurt. The only way to do that is if everyone involved shares that same mentality. Unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't work like that.

Now, let me say that none of this has anything to do with the incident that is the reason the thread was made. No defense for cops, no marginalizing what happened to that poor kid, etc. Just a little bit of info to give others some though on how things are, and how things aren't. I'll be able to comment more on the officers involved in the OP situation when more info is released.

I'm more than willing to answer any questions anyone has.

My only question to you is when do you see the police force fixing itself when it comes to being held accountable for unjustified deaths and minorities not being the overwhelming majority of arrests?

 

[theignoramus]

Honestly I don't give a fuck what happens to anyone who puts on a badge in the USA.

Juries are gunna have to start convicting these murdering cops before we reach a boiling point. With the age of social media, our generation remembers ,quite vividly, every time they spit in our face and let these cops walk. When this happens repeatedly, vigilantism can seem more and more inspiring.

 

[Sunster]

My hope was to always be able to remedy a situation where no one gets hurt. The only way to do that is if everyone involved shares that same mentality. Unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't work like that.

Now, let me say that none of this has anything to do with the incident that is the reason the thread was made. No defense for cops, no marginalizing what happened to that poor kid, etc. Just a little bit of info to give others some though on how things are, and how things aren't. I'll be able to comment more on the officers involved in the OP situation when more info is released.

I'm more than willing to answer any questions anyone has.

I thought cops were supposed to be able to take control of the situation regardless of everyone being on the same page or not. If they cannot do that then any mentally unstable person they run into is liable to be shot.

 

[Kin5290]

I'm a Black American and a BLM supporter to boot. Here's where you and I differ: I don't believe this to always be true. In fact, I've already pointed out multiple occasions where police have done better and gone above and beyond to try and settle incidents involving guns without any bloodshed. I expect more from law enforcement. I expect them not to rush to fatal choices to resolve conflicts particularly with their wealth of non-fatal options. I expect a society where if police can work hard to spare the lives of gun-toting white people, that same consideration should be spent on black people as well. And if that cannot happen, I expect swift and appropriate punishment rather than pussyfooting around and granting leniency to police officers who are violently negligent just because they are police officers. That's the kind of society I want. These topics are never about me wanting white people to be shot just as much as black people or wanting white suffering as vengeance for black oppression at all.

There are definitely instances of police disarming gunmen who happen to be black instead of killing them. Like these:
Police tackle, disarm gunman allegedly threatening to kill patrons in Mt. Morris Township party store
Police disarm gunman at Carolinas Medical Center

Every situation involving violence with a gun is different. A standoff between a half dozen police officers and a SWAT team trying to talk down a barricaded person with a gun is different from an active shooter. That's why it's hard to compare two incidents without knowing the finer details.

But you're absolutely right that the leniency of the police and jurors towards cops who kill black people simply because they perceived a threat that didn't exist (or helped to create) needs to end. Tamir Rice is a good example of where the police negligently escalated a situation by driving right up to him and then killed him before he even got a chance to respond.

Race definitely plays a role in the perception of threat, however, both on the part of the police and on the part of the public who calls the police. Sometimes that's really obvious, like the guy who called the police on John Crawford for walking around with a (realistic-looking) toy gun that was still in its store packaging.

 

[F34R]

My only question to you is when do you see the police force fixing itself when it comes to being held accountable for unjustified deaths and minorities not being the overwhelming majority of arrests?

I can't really say as far as reform goes. There's no way to really know. I wish there was just a magic wand to do it. With the majority of places in the US doing really well with what their job is, the places where there needs to be reform... I just don't understand why they aren't taking the steps to get it where it needs to be.

The arrests... that's hard to address to be honest. The great majority of the crimes committed in my city was by African-Americans. So, the arrest numbers are going to show the majority of arrests being in that area. I can see if I can get the up to date statistics. Granted, I've not seen any numbers in five years.

 

[Captin Quacker]

Juries are gunna have to start convicting these murdering cops before we reach a boiling point. With the age of social media, our generation remembers ,quite vividly, every time they spit in our face and let these cops walk. When this happens repeatedly, vigilantism can seem more and more inspiring.

I doubt it

there more than happy to let it boil over then question why is it's happening

and lets not pretend the cops aren't itching for escalation

 

[F34R]

I thought cops were supposed to be able to take control of the situation regardless of everyone being on the same page or not. If they cannot do that then any mentally unstable person they run into is liable to be shot.

Real life doesn't work like that though. Sometimes, you just can't talk someone down. Sometimes you encounter someone off their medication and simply talking to them isn't effective at all. Put a weapon in someones hands that are in that condition, and it's a bad situation. Hopefully it can end well, sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Ponn]

To be fair, you all attacked my position and now when I defend myself you attack my character and say I dont give a damn about dying children.

Im sorry but that's shameful.

Yea, it's everyone else. Couldn't possibly be the intent or content of your posts. Don't even attempt to look back and see why everyone thinks you are showing no empathy to the victim and defending cops. Nope nope nope.

 

[theWB27]

I can't really say as far as reform goes. There's no way to really know. I wish there was just a magic wand to do it. With the majority of places in the US doing really well with what their job is, the places where there needs to be reform... I just don't understand why they aren't taking the steps to get it where it needs to be.

The arrests... that's hard to address to be honest. The great majority of the crimes committed in my city was by African-Americans. So, the arrest numbers are going to show the majority of arrests being in that area. I can see if I can get the up to date statistics. Granted, I've not seen any numbers in five years.

Change comes from within doesn't it? There's a part of me that figures if enough cops cared enough there'd be change that y'all could force across jurisdiction. Would the person in Jeff Session's position be the one with enough power to force that?

I don't know your area and wouldn't ask you what it is...but when you see places like Minnesota have a rate of arrest 9 times higher for minorities than whites it's hard to take your second paragraph at face value because the the numbers don't favor us almost regardless of where you look.

 

[Frozenprince]

Yeah I flat refuse to believe that 13% of the population is commiting 4x the crime as the majority pop.