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Albert Penello on Project Scorpio and the future of Xbox (Inner Circle Podcast)
- Thread starter SOR5
- Start date
anothertech
Member
4k60 with a 6tf box? lol
I mean, if the game has the amount of Polys and looks like somthing akin to Wii sports, sure. 4K60 has always been possible.
But I'm a bit skeptical the next Halo and Forza are going to be 4k60 on a 6tf machine Albert.
I mean, if the game has the amount of Polys and looks like somthing akin to Wii sports, sure. 4K60 has always been possible.
But I'm a bit skeptical the next Halo and Forza are going to be 4k60 on a 6tf machine Albert.
mavericktopgun
Member
Just give me 1080p with MSAA, 60fps and all bells and whistles than 4K with 30 fps or less and worse graphics.
checkerboard tricks
Bitch Pudding
Member
I am sure we'll know soon enough how MS defines "very very far away future".
anothertech
Member
You do realize $6000 pc's with GPU/CPUs that run circles around Scorpio are struggling with 4k60 right?
4k60 won't happen on Scorpio unless there are major iq compromises, i.e. The games look like ass. We can place some bets here if someone is willing. Avatar bets are fun.
wapplew
Member
Game won't look like ass, just stick with Xbox one low/medium setting and we can have 4K60. Basically Xbox one graphic blow up to 4K.
It's not being obtuse nor stirring up anything just wish they would stop with that.
Just not cool suggesting all accessories will work across them when they won't that is if VR support is even 100% confirmed, nor will all games. You may know better but still it confuses things.
supernormal
Member
So the same thing that consoles do right now in order to reach 1080p vs their PC counterparts? It'll be the same thing. Xbox One quality games i.e. low/medium settings at 4k/30 and 4k/60.
MilkyJoe
Member
Someone stopped reading
MilkyJoe
Member
I'd say 2 supported consoles at a time
dragonelite
Member
The Xbox one gpu is probably also bandwidth starved, with the esram bandaid.
anothertech
Member
I disagree. How many 1080p60 games are on Xbone currently? (Hint: very few)
4k60 games on Scorpio will look WORSE than Xbone games by this logic. So I reiterate: 4k60 games on Scorpio will look like ASS compared to what we see on consoles today.
4k30 may be closer to Xbone iq, though I'm highly skeptical a 6tf box will be pushing res and frames further than 11tf pc's with Intel i7 cores of today.
Albert stating Scorpio is 4k60 capable is just disengenious IMO. Was the same exact situation when they said Xbone was 1080p60 capable. Silly nonsense.
Means little for console gamers, thier work on S really showed off what they can do with consoles, I'm excited for what the team will continue to do with consoles and Scorpio being in beast mode will more than likely significantly progress MS first part teams approach to new games. PC or not, Scorpio will be setting the benchmark for thier teams, Forza 7 will likely be a candidate for representing thier shift in focus and ambition, combined with the possibility of better UI, tweaked controllers there's a whole bunch of possibilities that I was pointing to in my previous post that I hope the project sparks. Panello said it in his interview, their teams and buzzing with excitement.
Having it be backward and forward compatible it would be difficult to justify increased asset quality though.
I would expect some devs may choose an in-between resolution, or dynamic res, and increase other areas like shadows, reflections, lighting etc.
wapplew
Member
Just go check some benchmark on PC with similar spec, we can have a better idea how games will look and perform on Scorpio.
Pjsprojects
Member
I would imagine this is when games are just streamed so no dedicated boxes will be needed.
Bits N Pieces
Member
Agree with the bolded 100%
The bad will and indifference generated by tiering the territories in who would get it first is just another example of how fucked the Xbox One launch was.
Thankfully it looks like lessons have been learned at MS across all divisions of the Xbox business, so I'd be surprised to see it happen again.....
They have categorically said they deem VR to be a platform in its own right. That's the stance that GAF has taken as well (see the recent sticky). So treat any notion of VR independently to what is being discussed here which is native accessories and native games.
Yea, they don't care where you buy the software, so long as its from them... but people aren't currently buying the software from them on PC. The plan is to use the stronger closed Xbox platform to attract people to their Windows platform. The plan isn't to fucking introduce Steam to the console market and do Valve the biggest favor possible.
"Hey! We got crossplatform purchases between Xbox and Windows for the following 50 titles... OR... you can buy your games from Valve to get crossplatform purchases between Xbox and Windows for like 10000+ games, most of those games you're hoping to see become BC, which will also run at 1080p/60fps like a remaster. You can also now purchase non-Xbox-licensed peripherals so you can play with the same wheels and arcade sticks on PS4, PC and Xbox! Also key resellers will effectively sell you games at near (or under) half-price."
If you can't see how this would be a stupid move and would only rapidly marginalise the Xbox ecosystem, then the I don't really think it's worth discussing any further. You'd just be giving the Xbox platform as a whole the same problems the Windows Store is already facing. You can't have it both ways by simply slapping a BigScreen boot-up. Either the average user doesn't realise the difference (as you suggest) and the PS4 continues to clean up, or they do know (and they will, because people like us would tell them) and people move over FAST.
Never done an avatar bet... but would be comfortable taking on this one. Would need to define what "looking like ass" pertains though. Seeing as the current Xbox does Forza Motorsport games at 1080p/60fps, I can't see a reason to doubt Scorpio playing the same game at 4k/60fps. The machine will have more than 4x the graphical processing power, and in many cases Xbox One games fall to sub-1080p as a result of the memory layout, not because the GPU couldn't push it otherwise.
chromatic9
Member
For some games there is no mystery.
Killer Instinct runs 4k 60fps on a 970/980 on highest settings. There's room to spare on 980
Forza Apex runs at 4k 60fps with settings higher than Xbox One on a 970oc/980.
Assassins Creed Unity and demanding games run at around 3200x1800 with higher settings than Xbox One and look damn good still on 970oc/980
I've also had Rise of the Tomb Raider running at 4k 35-40fps with similar settings to Xbox One in most areas and drops to 25-30 in other areas. Console games usually drop down to 25 or below lets not forget.
I wouldn't rule out MS going for something higher than 980/390x type performance which would take Scorpio into that more comfortable 4k zone. If AMD do a good job on power/perf I'm sure MS will take advantage.
MS will probably just offer a selection of games with native 4k modes, it's going to be a nice selling point to get some true 4k gaming and the best looking of the other games that will have less upscale or better graphic settings.
wapplew
Member
How can release all exclusives on PC, making Xbox less attractive to certain market not stupid but making a full feature PC making Xbox more attractive to certain market stupid?
Ms got nothing to lose here. They won't lose customers who love playing on console, they could gain PC gamers or more to Xbox ecosystem! Ain't that what MS try to achieve? Play anywhere, more options, give gamers choices.
Maybe make one full feature PC box along side proper Xbox? Xbox Scorpio, Xbox PC, same spec, maybe a little higher price for the PC box because Windows 10 licence price.
Because in one case they gain more control in a space where they had none, and in the other they cede control in a space where their control is absolute. How is this confusing you?
The "certain market" you describe already owns a PC. Changing the form factor (which already exists for PCs) isn't bringing in anyone new.
"More options, give everyone choices etc" is marketing speak.. no company in their right mind means it literally.
If they sold PCs no one would use their store... They'd just install Steam and be done with it... Just like what gamers do on any other PC.
The way they get people into their ecosystem is to sell a box that has their store exclusively.
How many Xbox PCs do you think they would sell? It would be a drop in the bucket compared to existing PC sales, and it would result in fewer games bought from MS' store. As well as fewer Live subscriptions.
It's not silly nonsense. Scorpio will be 4k60 capable in the same way that the Xbox/ps4 are 1080p60 capable- games will be able to get there depending on how demanding they are in other areas.
I'm honestly expecting the final Teraflop number to be a little higher by launch, especially if Zen is used. I just don't see how 6TF is enough especially since some devs are gonna push increased graphical fidelity and 4K. They certainly don't want a repeat scenario from this gen where they are constantly having to choose between high res or a decent frame rate.
Gnome Scat
Member
Looking forward to the console, hopefully it lives up to expectations. I just want BF1 to look as beautiful as possible.
Kowalski is an actual name?
Opus Angelorum
Member
I don't care about 4k at all.
Give me true 1080p running at 60fps with solid IQ and I'll be more than happy.
Give me true 1080p running at 60fps with solid IQ and I'll be more than happy.
The Dutch Slayer
Member
That was great makes me feel like MS does care about the community again.
All of this is excellent news for console only gamers. Regardless if it is kicking out questionable quality graphics at 4k 60 ( ie low settings), medium at 4k 30 or 1440 etc.. it is what it is is. hardware will always get better. The big win is a unified library... this means you can play today games on tomorrow machines or on PC with cross buy. If you want the best you go PC that is just how it is. You get a console to satisfice not maximize.
The technically best place to play games almost always is PC for a laundry list of reasons, not the smallest is my library has and will follow me for my life and be scalable with technology. I can play the games of tomorrow on my machine if I want by accepting lesser graphics/performance. No hardware upgrade needed.
Console gamers now are "almost" there. No more generations just hardware updates. Eventually, your ( and IMO that time is now I say as an XB1 owner) XB1 isn't suitable for running games and you HAVE to upgrade to play the newest games at anything approaching playable..but you have a choice.
The technically best place to play games almost always is PC for a laundry list of reasons, not the smallest is my library has and will follow me for my life and be scalable with technology. I can play the games of tomorrow on my machine if I want by accepting lesser graphics/performance. No hardware upgrade needed.
Console gamers now are "almost" there. No more generations just hardware updates. Eventually, your ( and IMO that time is now I say as an XB1 owner) XB1 isn't suitable for running games and you HAVE to upgrade to play the newest games at anything approaching playable..but you have a choice.
onwards and upwards hopefully
Dee Dah Dave
Member
The Scorpio will piss 4K/30fps with medium to high graphics settings right out of the box.
With some resolution 'tweaking' there will be '4k'/60fps games too. Some even native.
A lot depends on whether it does indeed have a Zen CPU though, as that would increase the overall performance of the system quite considerably. If it does it will be a very solid console.
I would still prefer 1080p/60fps for every single game, but it ain't gonna happen.
With some resolution 'tweaking' there will be '4k'/60fps games too. Some even native.
A lot depends on whether it does indeed have a Zen CPU though, as that would increase the overall performance of the system quite considerably. If it does it will be a very solid console.
I would still prefer 1080p/60fps for every single game, but it ain't gonna happen.
I really, really don't care about 4k in the slightest. The next tv I get will most likely have it, but I'll be doing my best to make sure HDR and latency are the main factors nailed down. Biggest I'd get is 55 inch anyway, and I'm not sure, sitting as far back as I do I'd notice a difference in the rez bump. 4k isn't the leap I want.
I'm just glad MS is trying to be at the top of the heap tech wise again...for consoles. No focus on using power to work towards shit that isn't gaming, Just gimme a beast that performs well with third party games, and runs the OS like it isn't stuck in goddamned molasses. I like the ecosystem better, I even like the OS better, and I damn sure like the controller better. Can't wait until next year to see what it can do.
I'm just glad MS is trying to be at the top of the heap tech wise again...for consoles. No focus on using power to work towards shit that isn't gaming, Just gimme a beast that performs well with third party games, and runs the OS like it isn't stuck in goddamned molasses. I like the ecosystem better, I even like the OS better, and I damn sure like the controller better. Can't wait until next year to see what it can do.
I seriously doubt that. Microsoft revealed too much when they said 6 TF. With that spec 4K at 30 FPS seems more reasonable which is still pretty good. Penello put a huge caveat in that interview by saying that it's up to developers to choose how to use that power. I don't expect to see any games at 4K 60 FPS on the Scorpio.
I wonder how much choice consumers will have on how to use the Scorpio's power. For example, if I have a 4K TV will I be forced to run the game at 4K or can I downgrade to 1080p so I can get 60 FPS. Will games for Xbox have graphics sliders like PC games? It'll be interesting to see how Microsoft will handle that and how console players would react to PC like graphics sliders.
BleedOrange
Banned
I really, really hope Microsoft creates an API framework that makes it easy and rewarding for Developers to allow their users to pick between 1080p/60Hz and 4k/30Hz (with the appropriate IQ differences on both presets)
Some games I just wanna play in 1080p (FPS, Character Action) with all the bells and whistles on, while still reducing input lag, and let my TV do the upscaling.
Other games I wanna bask in the glory of 4k!
Let us choose!
Some games I just wanna play in 1080p (FPS, Character Action) with all the bells and whistles on, while still reducing input lag, and let my TV do the upscaling.
Other games I wanna bask in the glory of 4k!
Let us choose!
Yo! Don't be dissin on rad man, that's hella not cool. Bounce dude!
Sony is doing over 1080P 60fps VR on a 1.84tf GPU from 2012 but you don't believe that a console being made for 4K in 2017 with 6tf can do 4k at Xbox One level?
What you've said makes no sense whatsoever. A game will either run at 4k native - and therefore be 4k - or it won't. If it's not native it can in no way be classed as '4k'.
The Albatross
Member
Very good interview and great information. Not yet sold on the Scorpio without seeing the price.
Love the posters looking to nitpick the smallest details. Guys, we get it, you have an agenda and you hate the Xbox and the Xbox team. It's cool for you, I know it makes you feel better about your life, but move on.
Love the posters looking to nitpick the smallest details. Guys, we get it, you have an agenda and you hate the Xbox and the Xbox team. It's cool for you, I know it makes you feel better about your life, but move on.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
That would be nice. It really needs to be just those two options, though.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Obviously, if you want to be pissy about it. But with all the new resolution techniques that are being used, plus dynamic scaling etc, I believe a game can still be classed as 4K even when it's not technically accurate.
The main point being that games can run at 60fps with various resolution techniques all greater than 1080p. While being close enough to 'real' 4K.
If a game uses dynamic scaling and hits native 4K 80% of the time, that's close enough to count in my book.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
When they say accessories, they mean Xbox accessories - nobody thinks anything different. You're not winning any clever points because you can't attach your vacuum cleaner accessories or ancient Atari controllers or any other non-Xbox accessories you care to point at.
Embarrassing reaching to try and smear.
Xbox 360 was a "high definition console" yet the system had games that were sub-HD; Halo 3, which is what some would say was the biggest game on the system wasn't in high definition.
Overall, people just want to see noticeable improvements with new hardware and the power/specs of the Scorpio will definitely let that be true. I would rather have games like Battlefield run in 1080p at 60 FPS with many details on the Scorpio instead of just taking the 30 FPS, 720p Xbox One version and just pushing it up to 4K.
righthandmouse
Banned
If this thing is legit I'm selling my vive and pc. I kinda missed the comfortable couch. Time will tell.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I have a 4k monitor. At that resolution you don't need AA for games because you don't see pixels.
PeterLegend
Member
They'll be a year late to the party, they need to show a big graphical jump from Neo to get my money.
1440P is not an option on HDTVs...their console may not be a true 4K box...
At least with Neo is can do 1080p 60fps and helps the PSVR graphics as well.
1440P is not an option on HDTVs...their console may not be a true 4K box...
At least with Neo is can do 1080p 60fps and helps the PSVR graphics as well.