Don't get your hopes up for the NEO. It will be a great 1080p/30 machine but most games will be extremely CPU limited. The Scorpio will be in the same boat if they don't use a Zen CPU. People are looking at the wrong side of things its all about the CPU if we want our 60fps at 1080p. I rather MS cut some costs on the GPU side to get the Zen in there.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Albert Penello on Project Scorpio and the future of Xbox (Inner Circle Podcast)
- Thread starter SOR5
- Start date
Don't get your hopes up for the NEO. It will be a great 1080p/30 machine but most games will be extremely CPU limited. The Scorpio will be in the same boat if they don't use a Zen CPU. People are looking at the wrong side of things its all about the CPU if we want our 60fps at 1080p. I rather MS cut some costs on the GPU side to get the Zen in there.
Caayn
Member
4K with a SMAA pass is godlike.
Beerman462
Member
Some intentionally obtuse people in here or what?
Scorpio will play games like Forza 5 that XB1 run at 1080/60 at 4K/60
Scorpio will not play games like Rise of the Tomb Raider that XB1 run at 1080/30 at 4K/60.
The quote is right in the OP
Forza 5
Xbox One = 1080/60
Scorpio = 4K/60
Rise of the Tomb Raider
Xbox One = 1080/30
Scorpio = 4K/30
Scorpio will play games like Forza 5 that XB1 run at 1080/60 at 4K/60
Scorpio will not play games like Rise of the Tomb Raider that XB1 run at 1080/30 at 4K/60.
The quote is right in the OP
Forza 5
Xbox One = 1080/60
Scorpio = 4K/60
Rise of the Tomb Raider
Xbox One = 1080/30
Scorpio = 4K/30
I don't think a support feature they don't own counts as an accessory they simply would be making the functionality and allowing Oculus and I guess Vive to work on their system.
It only makes sense that a product that requires so much power would only work on the Scorpio as the XB1 is lacking in that area.
I also feel as if they are going to use "Xbox Connect" as a marker to signify things that will work on all platforms.
You may believe it, but you'd be completely wrong. It doesn't matter what effects they use, if the output from Scorpio is not 4k it can't be classed as 4k. Period. How is that hard to understand?
And also, pissy? Lol, I'm talking facts, I'm not being pissy at all.
anothertech
Member
Would you be comfortable with this:
3 AAA games running 4k60 native, in the first 3 years of Scorpio, excluding Forza.
I'm betting it won't happen. No upscaling/uprendering nonsense. Have to be native render.
I'm excluding Forza because they make all kinds of iq compromises already to hit their targets. So want to see 3 separate AAA games. Halo, Gears or what have you
I'm betting 4k30 will be the norm, due to CPU bottleneck. That's my bet. Let me know If you accept.
anothertech
Member
with what CPU tho?
fps constraints are not just GPU centric.supernormal
Member
It seems like an easy enough concept to grasp, yet some people here are convinced that there will be absolutely no games that will be able to run at 4k/60 natively.
Proelite
Member
Would you be comfortable with this:
3 AAA games running 4k60 native, in the first 3 years of Scorpio, excluding Forza.
I'm betting it won't happen. No upscaling/uprendering nonsense. Have to be native render.
I'm excluding Forza because they make all kinds of iq compromises already to hit their targets. So want to see 3 separate AAA games. Halo, Gears or what have you
I'm betting 4k30 will be the norm, due to CPU bottleneck. That's my bet. Let me know If you accept.
Forza not counting due to lacking IQ despite being AAA and 1080p 60fps.
You can easily move goal posts for the Scorpio releases for some arbitrary self selected criteria.
With that said, I am expecting all 3 COD games and Forza 6 to be 4k 60fps on Scorpio at the least.
I am up for any bet. I'll take your avatar bet.
Edit:
Add Madden, Fifa, PES, nba 2k14, all the big sports title to the list.
anothertech
Member
Let's keep it simple then. That right there will be the bet. 3 COD games and Forza 6 all native 4k60, no dynamic or upscaling techniques. It's an avatar bet
Proelite
Member
No your bet was no more than two AAA excluding forza. I am betting that there will be more than two AAA excluding Forza within 3 years of Scorpio launch.Let's keep it simple then. That right there will be the bet. 3 COD games and Forza 6 all native 4k60, no dynamic or upscaling techniques. It's an avatar bet
Don't back peddle now you realized you've fucked up.
anothertech
Member
lol you said you'd take any bet, I was just going with your suggestions
Proelite
Member
lol you said you'd take any bet, I was just going with your suggestions
K bets on then.
I say more than 2 AAA titles 4k 60fps excluding Forza within first 3 years of Scorpio. See you in 2020 mofo.
anothertech
Member
Bets on 3 COD and Forza then. No upscaling. 2020 it is
Proelite
Member
Bets on 3 COD and Forza then. No upscaling. 2020 it is
No bets is the one you made to Synth. No more than two AAA excluding forza within first 3 years. Read my first response, I took that bet.
Yes it's doable.
Here's the example I keep using. Take Halo 5. It runs at 60fps and slightly less than 1080p. The Scorpio is roughly 4.5x the power of the Xbox One. That means if they wanted to, Halo 5 could run at 4K and 60fps on Scorpio (requires roughly 4.5 times the power). However, this would still run with the same textures, geometry, lighting, etc. as the Xbox One version.
The choice is there for the developer to run games like that, but they could also use that power to do whatever they wanted to.
John Kowalski
Banned
I don't know I thought it was a made up final fantasy name is all.
Bits N Pieces
Member
Bets on 3 COD and Forza then. No upscaling. 2020 it is
We're playing the long game here, lol.
Indie games maybe. Games like Witcher 3, Battlefield 1, GTA 5 ... no.
anothertech
Member
Ok gotcha. No Forza or sports games then ya? I'm down.
supernormal
Member
Witcher 3, Battlefield 1, GTA 5 are not 1080p/60 on Xbox One today. That has been my whole point in all my post. Games that are 1080p/60 on the Xbox One (very few) are the ones that will end up being 4k/60 on the Scorpio.
And for all you guys making bets, here's one you don't have to wait 4 years for. I'm willing to bet money, that we'll see at least 2 games (of any kind) that will run at 4k/60 on the Scorpio at next years E3.
Only 2?
supernormal
Member
Well these guys are making bets for 3 games in the first 3 years and I'm saying at least 2 before it's released, so it's probably a riskier bet.
Have to be dumb to take this bet, as it includes low graphical impact indie games.
Pure GPU adds up, but memory bandwidth may not. You mention the xb1 may be prevented from hitting 1080p in some games due to the memory layout, but Scorpio isn't getting 4x the memory bandwidth so 4K/60 may still be challenging even if the GPU core performance was capable of that
I'd be looking at Madden, FIFA and Forza being safe bets for next year.
supernormal
Member
Well, there's guys here that are absolutely sure that those aren't even possible at 4k/60fps. I'll make it less risky for you (or anybody), you put up whatever amount you want and I'll double it if I lose.
That's what I think as well, but hey it's probably impossible with only 6teraflops.
Let's keep it simple then. That right there will be the bet. 3 COD games and Forza 6 all native 4k60, no dynamic or upscaling techniques. It's an avatar bet
You guys might wanna be a bit more clear on the 60fps part for the bet
Like how stable that 60fps has to be. A lot of games including CoD claim to be 60fps on consoles yet have very large drops in framerate.potatohead
Member
So true. And not nearly as expensive as 2x MSAA even.
Albert Penello
Member
This guy gets it.
Makes sense. Figured as much myself as well. What about the majority of games which run at 900P on Xbox One? Is the goal to make those be able to run at native 4K too or is the expectation that they would be able to run natively at some resolution just south of 4K, i.e. 1800P?
No No my $4,000 Macbook from 10 years ago can't do 4K so your 2017 console will not be able to run Xbox One games in 4K & this is a fact!
rokkerkory
Member
You are going to be very sad when it does. There's no reason why scorpio can't run Forza 6 in 4k60.
You know that was a joke right?
Would you be comfortable with this:
3 AAA games running 4k60 native, in the first 3 years of Scorpio, excluding Forza.
I'm betting it won't happen. No upscaling/uprendering nonsense. Have to be native render.
I'm excluding Forza because they make all kinds of iq compromises already to hit their targets. So want to see 3 separate AAA games. Halo, Gears or what have you
I'm betting 4k30 will be the norm, due to CPU bottleneck. That's my bet. Let me know If you accept.
Yea, I'd take that...
...though I also expect 4k30 to be the norm as well. The two aren't conflicting with each other. If it plays out like 1080p60, then you'll lose your bet, and 4k30 will be the norm.
Well, this is something of an unknown, yea. However the only "fast" memory the XB1 had was the 32mb EDRAM which isn't generally enough to hold the 1080p buffer. The rest of the XB1's memory is less than 1/4 the Scorpio's bandwidth (320GB/s). The amount given for Scorpio is in line with that of a GTX1080 so I'd imagine it wouldn't be a limiting factor for 4K, so long as no dodgy split memory math is at work again.
LukasTaves
Member
Forza is 1080p with Msaa2x, even if the IQ is lacking it's pretty much the best xbone or ps4 could hope for.
Bitch Pudding
Member
I still hope devs choose to go for "Super Forza 5" / "Super TR" @ 1080p instead of just (!) delivering the very same XBOX One game pushed to 4k (at whatever fps). Which is what I read from this.
anothertech
Member
Hey Albert. So, basically majority of games won't hit that 4k60fps mark then? Similar to Xbone, 1080p60fps situation?
A lot of people seem to think '4k60fps capable' means all their AAA games will be able to hit that 60fps mark at 4kres when it probably won't be the case.
I'd be more willing to believe games like the new Forza even would be using dynamic res like Halo5 did to reach the 60fps mark.
Is that about right?
Who are these people who think that "'4k60fps capable' means all their AAA games will be able to hit that 60fps mark at 4kres"?
I only remember seeing the people like you who flat out said it couldn't do 4K 60fps unless it was low polygon like Wii sports or something
rokkerkory
Member
says who?
Says the person who made the joke
Art Vandilay
Member
This is going to be one long ass year and some change.
Edit: At least that gives me time to buy a 4K set though.
Edit: At least that gives me time to buy a 4K set though.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Pardon my ignorance in these technical matters but is this box going to offer better fidelity of the games themselves or is it just an improvement in resolution? The rumours surrounding Neo is that it will offer improved graphical fidelity for games on a 1080p TV, is Scorpio going offer the same thing for non 4K TV owners?
statham
Member
Devs can use the power however they like, like Neo. BF1 isn't goingto be 4k but probably 1080/60 on scorpio instead of 720p. plus you get downsampling on anything over 1080p, which really makes games look nicer. even at 1080p Scorpio games should look better then Neo games. Unless they go for parity.