R3TRODYCE
Member
Lol, scary shit
by the way, which movie this from?
Black Snake Moan.
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Ars Technica: Penello's XB1 Numbers, Ars "Sniff Test" Analysis
- Thread starter BRocknRolla
- Start date
Black Snake Moan.
SEGAvangelist
Member
*Bro-hug*
RedNumberFive
Banned
It takes time to craft a convincing narrative instead of presenting actual facts.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
The thing that got people royally pissed though was the online check, at least from what I've gathered these past months. At that point they were just asking for trouble.
If this is the case, that means the infamous tech post he made must also have been decided and pre-approved from some weeks back.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
My same reaction. I've been thinking that development on each console would be similar, just different GPUs and RAM configurations. This is insane that Sony of all companies are accomplishing this. We've gone from Cell and RSX to an absolute blessing for developers.
SEGAvangelist
Member
The same goes for that. The online check should have only been an opt-in thing for those that wanted to go digital. I'm not disagreeing with that.
Because they (apple) "get it". There are BENEFITS to the consumer to going all digital under their format. Instead of buying a Full album on CD and paying more, you can CHOOSE individual songs, pay far less. And aside from the obvious price difference, if I buy a new apple device in 3-5 years ALL of my digital content WORKS on the new Device. Not to mention, after said content is downloaded, I don't have to be online to "check in" to use and enjoy my content.
How many of my digitally bought 360 games work on the Xbone? NONE. How much do digital (full scale) games cost on Xbox live? $60 bucks, just like physical/retail, but with no benefit to me outside of not having to swap disks? Sorry, not enough. Give me a price break for not owning my copy of a game, promise me it will work on the next device (just like Apple and steam do), and don't mandate me to be online, on a $500 piece of hArdware I bought, to play the $60 games I also purchased.
maabus1999
Member
I think you misunderstand. He just put out some brief summaries with numbers(which may have been approved with some other folks yes). However, it doesn't go anywhere into detail how they get there tech wise, which may involve patents/confidential info/etc...
Like I can say, hey I have a prototype antenna that is 3 dB better ( 2 x better if unfamiliar with dB) than the other guys! I made a statement right? Now to prove it with data/design/etc... that would require indepth tech analysis that is probably still confidential and the company may want to protect how they release it and when.
Since the X1 is coming out soon and in production (as is the PS4), I imagine there is less drive to keep said technologies underwraps now, if they want to release it that is. Still you have red tape to jump through normally.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
Yeah, I agree. I think that if they had managed to implement everything else they wanted, without the online check, they might have been successful in doing so. They might have met some resistance, but not the enormous backlash they got.
Manmademan
Member
This is a bad analogy.
If you buy the xbone or ps4 this year for 400 or 500, every single digital game released for the platform will run on it, even 8 years from now without any upgrades and do so perfectly.
You don't have a prayer of running games 8 years out on an iPhone 5. You couldn't run current games on a launch era iPhone or iPhone 3g if your life depended on it.
Movies and music are totally irrelevant. Those don't stop working when you upgrade from a ps3 to ps4 any more than they do on the iPhone.
Let's not split hairs here. A game's a game's a game's a game.
Counterpoint to your link: Recent Xbox Live sale. I see this argument about Microsoft selling digital games at full price and Steam is so much better, because of their sales, but I do see regular sales on Xbox Live (and PSN, but that is not our focal point).
EA's made double Rovios made in digital phone platform sales this year.
You can't trivialize those numbers. All digital is the future and we do need to accept its coming. If not today, another day, but it will be the rule. Movies, TV, and music are predominately digital, video games are just next in line.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Valid complaints for sure. Hopefully both MS and Sony can make backwards compatibility a thing 6-7 years from now since they are practically PCs now. Making a promise to just that (and not breaking it) would ease the minds of many digital customers. That's part of why people love Steam.
The music and videos should work at the very least. That's a large portion right there.
Black Snake Moan.
Thanks, I'm gonna watch it tonight. always love Samuel Jackson performances, especially his performance in Pulp Fiction.
Manmademan
Member
I don't own an Xbox 360, so cant speak for live, but Sony's media bought through psn is cross platform. I can even buy through amazon if I don't like Sony.
Eh, I've seen enough fan boys from all sides, and even though sony and ninty fans tend to be very passionate about their consoles, seeing these new members on gaf trying to actively defend MS is bizarre. Few years back you had active people getting pissed at each other and getting banned left and right (rip wollan, kittowy,speculawyer,et el) these new bunch seem too fake to be real fan boys.
Gotta wait for that NDA to be up. Don't you read the Misterxmedia blog?
I don't know why people claim that Sony lied about their PS2/PS3 specs claims.
PS2 was the most powerful console in 2000 period, anyone who thinks that DC is more powerful knows nothing about specs.
PS3 IS the most powerful console this generation easily. How? well, look at TLoU, GoW and Uncharted games. there is nothing in the console space that comes close to those games.
So, Sony said PS3 is more powerful than 360, then they PROVED this advantage by 1st party games output. PS3 only downside is that it was the most difficult console to program for in consoles history followed by the Saturn then PS2. PS3 would have held an advantage over 360 in all games if it was easier to program for, but sadly it wasn't and his potential remained untapped except from bunch of Sony's elite ICE team.
I don't remember Sony saying that PS3 is easy to develop for, they just claimed it's more powerful then proved with time that once you master this exotic design you will end up with more powerful than 360.
Next gen is quite different, both PS4/X1 almost share the same architecture, it's just PS4 has more of everything in addition to easiness to develop for. So, I really hope people stop bringing PS3/360 example when talking about next gen. Totally different scenario as explained above.
IF MS thinks that X1 is on par or better than PS4, then they have to prove it themselves. just like Sony did last gen.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Obviously misterxmedia is trash, but MS planning a live streamed developers conference on the 26th which is the day after the AMD tech reveal on the 25th does seem like good timing. I'm not saying MS has secret sauce waiting for us, but maybe a few more details can be discussed then?
lol if they prove it like that, better they not try at all
SEGAvangelist
Member
lol if they prove it like that, better they not try at all
Yeah. Might take a while. lol
There's nothing stopping ms offering digital download codes to be sold at retail alongside physical discs to do as you wish.
Apart from the fact there's no point for them as they don't have total control of their ecosystem.
WrenchNinja
Member
What does a game is a game is a game supposed to mean exactly with relation to my post? People like cheap games. Apples success on this front relies on cheap, quick and easily consumed games which works especially well in the portable space. Games on the app store are cheap. Games on consoles are not. For them to be cheaper you have to wait a pretty long time before the console manufacturers decide to even slightly match retail prices.
You gave me sales prices which proves...what? Sales happen all of the time. These sales still aren't as cheap as they get with Steam. Theyre still not as cheap as the app store. And I still can't buy Gears 1 and 2 for 7 bucks on GoD.
Your point about movies and music doesnt make sense since it's not as if physical has completely disappeared there.
And how many PSN games are going to work on the PS4?
(A fact I loathe for either of the new systems)
I think you're cherry picking too much, though. Whatever the media we consume, digital is where it is going. And, really, digital is the best way to go. Heck, I can even go to Gamestop and buy my games digitally.
Yeah, no 2nd and 3rd GPU (lulz) but they probably will go more in depth at that time.
Because it was in response to you taking the stance that somehow Apple being a gaming platform loses merits for whatever reason you want to come up with. Which is solely based on price.
I gave you Xbox sales prices which was in direct response to you saying "Do you think Microsoft and retailers are going to go at it for the consumer and sell cheap games when Microsoft sets the prices for new and used? Cause I kind of doubt it" and then linking to an example of where the digital copies were more expensive. And it was a flippant retort, at that. I mean, come now, are you even paying attention to the arguments you're making and how you're trying to back them up?
No, physical hasn't completely disappeared, but I dare you to walk into a Best Buy or a Wal-Mart and find anywhere near the catalog on Netflix, Hulu, or iTunes. Just because there are a few oases of physical copies out in the wild doesn't invalidate my proclamation that digital is overwhelmingly the predominant way people consume those types of media.
The Problem is that those sales simply don't stand up to Steam or retail, Let's take Fifa 13 on that. £25 in September 2013. Fifa 14 launches the same month and will likely be £25 brand new on release date in UK supermarkets, just how Fifa 13 was £25 in supermarkets day one as well.
It's not about not having sales, the sales simply aren't good enough.
thisandthat
Neo Member
Ah no idea some of them were ban. I was wondering where they went.
Good movie except for Justin Timberlake. S
well luckily you don't need to have Penello and Nelson around to install it for you, but I understand what you mean. Good luck on making your decision, you could always wait a while if you were on the fence.
Lol. Thanks Skeff. I am starting to lean towards waiting. I just find it hard to fight off that new console itch. But seriously thank you
I'd be interested to know if that's the case yet. Certainly the people who buy the most media are likely to be the types who can afford a good internet connection, but an awful lot of occasional media consumers aren't on that train. DVD rentals may be all but dead, and CDs are clearly on the way out; but subscription TV is still going strong, and I haven't noticed a downsizing in floor space devoted to movies and games in retail spaces.
If decent internet was as widespread and affordable as a landline, I'm sure you'd be right. But we have a long way to go before we get there: availability, cost, speed, and data caps all throw up some fairly significant obstacles that must be overcome before physical media loses its relevance. I'm as certain as you that an all-digital future is inevitable, but I doubt we'll see the infrastructure change sufficiently inside a decade.
SwiftDeath
Member
You're referring to forwards compatibility whereas the poster seems to be refering to backwards compatibility to me
I don't expect my PS3 games to play on my PS1 but I did expect my PS3 games to play on my PS4
Just like I expect iphone 4 games to play on my iphone 5 but don't expect the reverse
Garrett 2U
Member
If that's an issue for you... there were hundreds of people that worked on the Xbone besides LH and AP, so maybe think about your purchase supporting them instead.
Wait, do MS employees work on commission?
Quadraphonic
Member
Major Nelson attaches Amazon referral URLs to all of his posts.
I'm kidding. I think.
Beautiful.
Garrett 2U
Member
No clue. That wasn't my point.
Yeah - if you actually got his initial point you could have saved the time you needed for this montage. He was talking about the raw specs eg TFlops and that the games should do the talking. Comparing the specs published to that date was useless because it didn't include all variables on both sides. At least that's what I got out of his posts.
He's contradicted himself over and over again.
- Comparing specs is meaningless ... resorts to comparing specs
- Could the weaker machine be actually more powerful??? ... It's a wash!
- Only people working on the actual boxes know what's in them ... goes on to compare PS4's specs.
- Let's not compare specs until the boxes ship and we have them ... goes on to compare specs
- Let's not talk about specs and let the (launch games) do the talking .. resorts to comparing specs (again)
What does he fall back to?
- Lets look at the (launch) games ..
- We invented DirectX!
- Only we know what's in our box.
- I ran this by so and so technical fellow, you know we're lucky to have him .. trust me! the numbers are solid.
- Sorry I didnt know Europe was not a country, I will let my internal teams know
- Sorry I was not aware of the math discrepancies, obviously I'm not fully aware of the specs.
I don't do any of those things, so yes. Another benefit was not having to burn your bandwidth cap (if you have one) downloading the digital copy. Also, you weren't forced to check in with Microsoft everyday, you only had to check in on days that you wanted to play disconnected from the internet. You're making it sound like a job
They might do that, but those prices would still be set by Microsoft, like all digital content. Under the pre-180 system, physical discs were competing on the same level as digital titles but with the old-style distribution and pricing system. Now the physical copies are gimped with the requirement to have the disc in the drive -- something the system was clearly not designed around
WrenchNinja
Member
What the heck are you talking about? I'm not downplaying Apple's success. You're equaling their success down to just the fact that it's digital and ignoring all of the other factors.
I linked to the digital prices cause that's the damn price they set on a new version of the title which isn't any different from how they price a physical copy.
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store...archResultsPage&result=&keywords=gears+of+war
...both in a Microsoft controlled landscape. Let's pretend if Microsoft got their way and they got to set the prices for used games with their authorized stores, do you think they're going to sell games at as low a value? Do you see brand new released game prices get as discounted as they do on Steam right now on PSN or XBL? You want to give them all the power to set new and used prices for what reason? It's not as if they can't drop the price to compete with Steam and retail right now. But of course, a few meager sales of old ass games means everything's fine and dandy on the digital front.
A few oases? Are you serious? Do you go to stores at all any more or is this just an assumption you've made because you consume media through apps now? Stores change catalog constantly. It's kind of how it has always worked. How does not having as huge a catalog as a digital store prove that physical is dead? Do you have any proof that entire world predominantly uses legitimate digital download services as their main mode of media consumption?
SHADES
Member
Wow quite the list of 180's there, at least Albert's following the company line.
To put some timeline into this obvious crazy of circus deception.
Time LIne:
June 28th Friday : Leadbetter at Eurogamer made an article exclusive to him alone where MS found this amazing before never to be known two way ESRAM, which helps double the bandwidth.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-xbox-one-memory-better-in-production-hardware
Leadbetter claims his source was "Well-placed development sources have told Digital Foundry ".... well now we know that this development source had tobe MS them self. So leadbetter became a mouthpiece PR. As soon as the article hit Gaf, question spark of math that did not make any sense.. As summarize by the post below from the thread..
Well,
800Mhz x 128 bits = 102 GB/s
According to the article the flux capacitor found by MS allows read and write at the same time(intel, hire these guys) and so theorical max bandwidth should be 102 x 2 = 204
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=66898711#post66898711
Basic question if it is read and write at the same time then the max should have been 204. Why 194? This was raised and debated but no answer.
Then we had the upclock. And MS increased/upclock GPU. Albert than made a post here in Gaf of comparison with PS4
• We have more memory bandwidth. 176gb/sec is peak on paper for GDDR5. Our peak on paper is 272gb/sec. (68gb/sec DDR3 + 204gb/sec on ESRAM). ESRAM can do read/write cycles simultaneously so I see this number mis-quoted.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=80951633&highlight=#post80951633
He then was asked:
by Freki
So why is the bidirectional bandwith of your eSRAM 204GB/s although your one-directional bw is 109GB/s - shouldn't it be 218GB/s?
To which albert response:
Yes, it should be. And I was quickly corrected (both on the forum and from people at the office) for writing the wrong number.
So now he claims after talking to his "technical people" the number should be 218.
But here is damn catch AGAIN......
At the Hotchip Presentation, which was done after GPU upclock contradicts that number, which was actually presented by MS own technical experts at states the number to be 204
So seriously, all this circus of misinformation. To a point they cant even keep up with there own deceptions and lies.
Time LIne:
June 28th Friday : Leadbetter at Eurogamer made an article exclusive to him alone where MS found this amazing before never to be known two way ESRAM, which helps double the bandwidth.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-xbox-one-memory-better-in-production-hardware
Leadbetter claims his source was "Well-placed development sources have told Digital Foundry ".... well now we know that this development source had tobe MS them self. So leadbetter became a mouthpiece PR. As soon as the article hit Gaf, question spark of math that did not make any sense.. As summarize by the post below from the thread..
Well,
800Mhz x 128 bits = 102 GB/s
According to the article the flux capacitor found by MS allows read and write at the same time(intel, hire these guys) and so theorical max bandwidth should be 102 x 2 = 204
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=66898711#post66898711
Basic question if it is read and write at the same time then the max should have been 204. Why 194? This was raised and debated but no answer.
Then we had the upclock. And MS increased/upclock GPU. Albert than made a post here in Gaf of comparison with PS4
• We have more memory bandwidth. 176gb/sec is peak on paper for GDDR5. Our peak on paper is 272gb/sec. (68gb/sec DDR3 + 204gb/sec on ESRAM). ESRAM can do read/write cycles simultaneously so I see this number mis-quoted.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=80951633&highlight=#post80951633
He then was asked:
by Freki
So why is the bidirectional bandwith of your eSRAM 204GB/s although your one-directional bw is 109GB/s - shouldn't it be 218GB/s?
To which albert response:
Yes, it should be. And I was quickly corrected (both on the forum and from people at the office) for writing the wrong number.
So now he claims after talking to his "technical people" the number should be 218.
But here is damn catch AGAIN......
At the Hotchip Presentation, which was done after GPU upclock contradicts that number, which was actually presented by MS own technical experts at states the number to be 204
So seriously, all this circus of misinformation. To a point they cant even keep up with there own deceptions and lies.
I think the people that did the HotChips talk are the most reliable. You don't present nonsense, at least not too much nonsense, at a professional/scientific conference. And, of course, these guys are indeed the engineers.
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