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[chickdigger802]

from this statement it does actually seem like a win for last gen IF they can lock 30fps on those... gonna be curious if they can master ps3 for their first ps3 game... or i assume they probably just outsource the last gen ones.

 

[maneil99]

Thanks bungie for giving me the same experience on my brand new console as a 7 year old machine. I'll be skipping destiny.

So if it had been 60 fps you would have bought it? That would be a different experience? Yet 1080p, solid frame rate and greatly improved visuals wouldn't?

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

so lowest common denominator. While 60fps would be really nice, I still enjoyed the alpha, and 30fps will be just fine.

Except it's not. it's sluggish and the latency makes your eyes work hard to coordinate and focus on what you're looking for during rapid movement which is primordial for an FPS.

At 60fps it's all second nature.

 

[JaseMath]

So that's why I though it looked kind of ho-hum.

 

[NullPointer]

Destiny 2 confirmed Definitive Edition

Spoiler

The Alpha was so good though, felt like 60fps to me tbh

Your framerate detection glands are broken.

But yeah, as I wandered around in the Alpha I couldn't help but think of how this game would have looked and performed if it wasn't limited by the previous generation.

Graphics dont matter at all if the gameplay doesnt bring something to the table, and judging from the alpha, it doesnt bring much.

I think the public events have the most potential, especially if they could have some kind of temporary effect upon the world based upon the success or failure (even just in aggregate), or advance a narrative arc.

 

[polyh3dron]

When was the last time Bungie actually made a 60FPS console game? I never played Oni but none of the Halo games ran at 60. They just don't do 60FPS and their games move at a deliberately slow pace with 30FPS in mind.

I don't mind that, what I do mind is when a game is clearly designed to run at 60 like Sonic Racing Transformed and Sonic Generations and the console version suffers due to running at 30.

 

[syko de4d]

Parity with old gen? Why? Are Xbox360, Xb1, Ps3 and Ps 4 people play together on the same server? If not it makes no sense.

The only reason is marketing, 30fps looks better on youtube and with screenshots. Cinematic singleplayer stuff can run with 30fps, still prefer 60fps but smooth 30fps is still okay for that kind of games. But for multiplayer, gameplay should always be more important than graphics.

Destiny will sell so bad on old gen. Releasing a game with a big MP/Online focus with years of planned support so late on old gen is just a waste of ressources.

Is here anyone in this thread who will get Destiny on old gen?

 

[gruenel]

Are those last gen players supposed to get an inferior experience than yours just because you bought a new console?

Yes?

 

[Shredderi]

Death to cross gen games.

The worst part is despite those "80m install bases" the game will likely only sell ~20% at the most on lastgen consoles.

Exactly. The tradeoff just seems pretty bad. Isn't this supposed to be supported over a long period of time? So how many will be playing this on last gen in, say, after two years? I dunno, maybe it will be a hit on last gen too and I'll be eating crow, but I just don't see it. I think it will do very well on current gen consoles.

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

Sadly, this is going to be the norm for at least another year. Publishers are not going to ignore the MASSIVE install base of PS3/X360

 

[Forsaken82]

Outside of screenshots, how does higher frame rate not make the game look better?

Because having higher frames per second does NOTHING to the visual quality of a game. You aren't getting higher resolution textures. You aren't getting a better lighting model. You aren't getting more advanced shaders. You aren't getting higher poly models. You aren't getting more Particles on screen. You don't get more enemies on screen. You aren't getting any more visual flare than with 30 FPS.

The only "visual" difference would be smoother animations, which I would hardly consider what makes a game look "absolutely stunning"

 

[Hockeymac18]

So if it had been 60 fps you would have bought it? That would be a different experience? Yet 1080p, solid frame rate and greatly improved visuals wouldn't?

In a lot of people's minds, it seems 1080p/60 is the only thing that makes something "next gen". I think people latch on to numbers (like framerate and resolution) because they're easier to compare than overall visual improvements.

 

[maneil99]

2014 is the second year these consoles have been available. I don't really feel like arguing semantics with you.

It's been out for 11 months... There is no way to spin that into 2 years bud.

 

[Curufinwe]

Your framerate detection glands are broken.

But yeah, as I wandered around in the Alpha I couldn't help but think of how this game would have looked and performed if it wasn't limited by the previous generation.

Probably not that much better. The PS4 and Xbone both have slow CPUs.

 

[blastprocessor]

holy shit thats funny

funny thing is it is a bit true. The harder your GPU is pushed, the hotter it gets and the faster your fan needs to work.

I do that with my PC all the time. Crysis will work my GPU hard causing it to be around 64 degrees celcius. A game like Borderlands 2, not at all. I run that game at 48 celcius

Indeed sir, it was worth posting for a chuckle as well.

 

[ricardokenshin]

Are those last gen players supposed to get an inferior experience than yours just because you bought a new console?

they are supposed to get an inferior experience because that's the most their console is able to output. Just like with FFXIV, you play the gimped ps3 version or you play the superior ps4 or PC versions.

I don't get what your point is

 

[m@cross]

Or maybe they wanted both systems to have stable framerates and settled on 30? Not sure why you should expect the PS4 to be able to do 60 when the XB1 is doing 30 (PS4 isn't twice as powerful). I could see a 30 fps vs 45/50 fps scenario, but not 30 fps vs 60 fps (at least not a stable 60 fps).

Doesn't have to be 60 vs 30 to make them think 30 for all is best. They want to sell as many units as possible here, having a XB1 version that laggs with bigger events happening at 60fps or maybe can only run 45fps makes it look bad and hurts sales. Saying they both run at 30fps makes them both equally sellable and helps sales.

I doubt that they are worried that people will think next gens systems are better than last gen so they lowered both next gen to keep them inline with last. People know the newer systems have more power, it is expected.

 

[NIN90]

Those open world games ran at 60 fps on PC. No reason the new machines couldn't do it, besides superfluous particle effects and wet pavement tech®.

You think they don't make it 60 FPS on current gen just 'cause? I'd wager a guess that this is gonna be a case of last-gen being way below 30 most of the time while current gen holding a steady 30.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Yes?

they are supposed to get an inferior experience because that's the most their console is able to output. Just like with FFXIV, you play the gimped ps3 version or you play the superior ps4 or PC versions.

I don't get what your point is

Sarcasm, should have tagged.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Is here anyone in this thread who will get Destiny on old gen?

If I end up getting it and it either never or takes too long to come to PC, I'll be playing it on PS3.

 

[IAmRandom31]

oh yeah don't get me wrong, day 1 buy, Alpha felt smooth and fantastic. But knowing it is parity with other consoles ... just because ... is ... incredibly frustrating. But could of been reading into the comment too much ... or whatever. Not sure. But it sounds like they did not want one version to be 60 and another 30 because of " different gameplay experience "

 

[randomengine]

“It’s a lot of different things,” explains Jason Sussman who is the senior environment artist at Bungie. “I could get really technical, but I’d bore you to death. A lot has to do with performance. We’re cross-platform, so we had to be very delicate with all four consoles, making sure they have the same experience, that it looks as good as it possibly can on all these consoles. A lot goes into that, from geometry to textures to post effects to particles to how many players you get on the screen. We’re always balancing that out to make sure everyone gets the same experience,”

Why is this important? Why can't PS4/XB1 versions be much better?

 

[KJRS_1993]

2014 is the second year these consoles have been available. I don't really feel like arguing semantics with you.

Now now, you know that's a little bit of GAF hyperbole there my friend. Less of that.

 

[Kem0sabe]

You should read Mike Works's thread about Destiny's Alpha poll. The majority of people had positive impressions with the game.

They have a solid base, but theres a lot of problems with the gunplay, the lack of feedback from hitting the enemies, lack of blood, bosses being nothing more than damage sponges with high HP.

I was bored with it, also the ridiculous Dinklage voice overs didnt help much, i think "phoning it in" is being too kind.

Still, it´s alpha, these things are "fixable".

 

[Curufinwe]

Says who?

Says the slow CPUs powering the Xbone and PS4.

 

[mentallyinept]

Are those last gen players supposed to get an inferior experience than yours just because you bought a new console?

Yes, depending on what you mean by "inferior experience".

Edit: Apparently this was sarcasm. Disregard...

 

[malfcn]

I could get really technical, but I’d bore you to death.

No. I find that stuff fascinating to try and read. It's all over my head, but it's still fun to read. Plus, the are alot of technical people here that would enjoy it. And help explain it too.

 

[The End]

That quote really makes me wonder whether we're going to have 360/Xbone and PS3/4 crossplay.

Then it makes tons of sense, newgen gets higher res, more effects, etc, but level geometry and framerate are the same so people can play together.

 

[ricardokenshin]

Sarcasm, should have tagged.

yes!

 

[gruenel]

Sarcasm, should have tagged.

I suspected

Spoiler

/hoped

as much. Can't be sure on the internet though!

 

[polyh3dron]

In a lot of people's minds, it seems 1080p/60 is the only thing that makes something "next gen". I think people latch on to numbers (like framerate and resolution) because they're easier to compare than overall visual improvements.

It's not just the numbers, and with a Sega logo in your av you should know this full well since Dreamcast had so many awesome 60FPS games.

 

[maneil99]

60 fps locked would have been near impossible, the game is visually amazing and that was just an Alpha, having the game stream all that data with AI, the high draw distance, effects ect would have been a pain in the ass. Bungie has always aimed for great art and worlds, sacrificing draw distance and effects for a higher frame rate would have been a mistake in my opinion, the amount they would have to sacrifice for a locked 60 fps without drops would outweigh the sales and effect of a visually stunning world.

 

[gioGAF]

He literally said nothing. What is this technical explanation that would bore us? I would like to hear that. Having a consistent experience is dumb, we might as well adhere to last gen capabilities if that is the case, we don't want to leave anyone behind, smh.

 

[Pops Maellard]

Probably not that much better. The PS4 and Xbone both have slow CPUs.

From what the article says, it sounds like the only reason Destiny wasn't 60fps on current gen is because for some reason they had to have parity with last gen. While the Bone and PS4 aren't exactly technical marvels, I seriously doubt Bungie was unable to get Destiny running at 60fps on both.

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

Parity with old gen? Why? Are Xbox360, Xb1, Ps3 and Ps 4 people play together on the same server? If not it makes no sense.

The only reason is marketing, 30fps looks better on youtube and with screenshots. Cinematic singleplayer stuff can run with 30fps, still prefer 60fps but smooth 30fps is still okay for that kind of games. But for multiplayer, gameplay should always be more important than graphics.

Destiny will sell so bad on old gen. Releasing a game with a big MP/Online focus with years of planned support so late on old gen is just a waste of ressources.

Is here anyone in this thread who will get Destiny on old gen?

Close but not quite.

It's politics. Publishers don't ruffle platform holders' feathers by releasing a game that is a joy to play on one platform and just okay on another just because the former can manage it. In corporate language that is favouring a console and sours future "unprecedented partnerships".

 

[bananafactory]

Why is this important. Why can't PS4/XB1 versions be much better?

I doubt they are talking about the PS4 and PS3 versions having the same experience....I think you'll find the answer in your post. The push to get XB1 to run it at 1080p likely meant 30 fps (since very few XB1 games run at 1080/60), and they probably don't want the PS4 version to be blatantly superior.

OF COURSE THIS IS SPECULATION. But I believe this is absolutely a possibility.

 

[benny_a]

Says the slow CPUs powering the Xbone and PS4.

Yeah, just look at GTA 5 as the evidence that games made for PS3era and PS4 era will be absolutely the same.

We've reached peak performance with Destiny. Games will not look better than it.

 

[majik13]

Except it's not. it's sluggish and the latency makes your eyes work hard to coordinate and focus on what you're looking for during rapid movement which is primordial for an FPS.

At 60fps it's all second nature.

maybe for you? I didnt have any issues. Nor anyone else i played with. And I even watched Twitch streams (lirik) were they werent even sure what the fps were, even after playing it for a good while.

Also, wouldnt latency have more to do with the network code( or even how much post processing/filtering is on your TV, or even in the game), and I think the slugishness has more to do with the controls. I found them intially slugish, but upping my senstivity helped, and it felt at home after that. yes a higher fps would give the game better player feedback and let you respond to situations better, I would agree.

 

[gruenel]

Says the slow CPUs powering the Xbone and PS4.

It's not like the open world in Destiny has a shitload of stuff going on, like GTA5 for example. I doubt the CPU is a bottleneck here.

 

[maneil99]

I doubt they are talking about the PS4 and PS3 versions having the same experience....I think you'll find the answer in your post. The push to get XB1 to run it at 1080p likely meant 30 fps (since very few XB1 games run at 1080/60), and they probably don't want the PS4 version to be blatantly superior.

OF COURSE THIS IS SPECULATION. But I believe this is absolutely a possibility.

Or they can't get the PS4 version at a locked 60 fps... Stop the conspiracy bullshit.

 

[NullPointer]

Probably not that much better. The PS4 and Xbone both have slow CPUs.

Lets take a few moments to reflect upon this post once Destiny makes its inevitable move to current-gen only development.

 

[polyh3dron]

Because having higher frames per second does NOTHING to the visual quality of a game.

That's an opinion, far from a fact.

 

[Zatoichi's Cane]

I just want to know if it was possible for them to do this game with current graphical fidelity at 60fps on ps4

 

[Pai Pai Master]

From what the article says, it sounds like the only reason Destiny wasn't 60fps on current gen is because for some reason they had to have parity with last gen. While the Bone and PS4 aren't exactly technical marvels, I seriously doubt Bungie was unable to get Destiny running at 60fps on both.

I doubt they would intentionally gimp their games just for parity's sake. It sounds more like a convenient excuse, maybe they had the game running at high FPS on current gen consoles but couldn't get it locked down to 60fps and had to plan everything else around 30. We are still early in the gen and this is an ambitious game.

Parity is just an easier excuse to give instead of all the technical details as he says. It helps that it's very much a locked 30fps game and is very capable in the rest of its execution (draw distance, shadows, seamless worlds, etc).

 

[Chobel]

Bullshit excuse! We already have games running 60fps on current-gen and 30fps in previous-gen.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

I doubt they are talking about the PS4 and PS3 versions having the same experience....I think you'll find the answer in your post. The push to get XB1 to run it at 1080p likely meant 30 fps (since very few XB1 games run at 1080/60), and they probably don't want the PS4 version to be blatantly superior.

OF COURSE THIS IS SPECULATION. But I believe this is absolutely a possibility.

Possible, but more likely that it's about the previous gen releases. The investment in this game requires the previous gen's install base.

 

[NIN90]

Yeah, just look at GTA 5 as the evidence that games made for PS3era and PS4 era will be absolutely the same.

We've reached peak performance with Destiny. Games will not look better than it.

Does it run at 60?

 

[Zomba13]

How

The feel of 60fps.

 

[Zemm]

Oh man at people thinking if this wasn't cross-gen it would be 60fps.

 

[jetjevons]

I'm still just basking in the glow of how awesome the Destiny Alpha was.