Ninja Sharingan
Banned
Like dark said the pixels are still displayed as that of a 1080p image so you do not suffer the ills of an up scaled image. It looks exactly the same as what a 1080p image would
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Digital Foundry hands-on Quantum Break (XB1)
- Thread starter Man
- Start date
Like dark said the pixels are still displayed as that of a 1080p image so you do not suffer the ills of an up scaled image. It looks exactly the same as what a 1080p image would
plagiarize
Banned
You can blame Remedy for not putting a 1920 x 1080 framebuffer at the top of their priority list. It's my preference too... but you can't say they didn't target the Xbox One. They just prioritized other things over resolution.
As I've said before, Alan Wake was still one of the best looking games on Xbox 360, *despite* the unquestionable negative that was it's low resolution frame buffer.
Again, that was because of extensive alpha and great real time lighting, much as we're seeing on Quantum Break... and while I can't speak for Quantum Break not having seen much footage of it, if you took the extensive alpha and real time lighting out of Alan Wake it wouldn't be the same game at all. No fog. No pine trees. No volumetric lights.
Whatever that game at 720p would have been on Xbox 360, it wouldn't have been anything like the game we got (and a game I love).
So perhaps sometimes the trade off is worth it. Alan Wake would be a clear example of when it was. As such I'm willing to give Remedy the benefit of the doubt until I see how important the effects they're using are to the game design and atmosphere of the title. Maybe they'll just be needless eye candy and I'll wish they focused on hitting 1920 x 1080.
But I'm not going to lose any sleep over the resolution of the framebuffer on Xbox One. Doubly so since they're giving me the PC version too.
The bolded isn't lowering the resolution. That is just rendering to less of the framebuffer. As long as you aren't scaling then you are rendering to the native resolution.
If you make a 2D game where you have a floor, your sprites and a black background does this game suddenly have a dynamic resolution depending on which portions of the black background are covered at any particular frame?
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=151162076
They did it for more AA 2x instead of 4x
But still was all about their vision..... they just were able to use 4x using there black bars
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Come on man use your brain let's take an easy example for you.
A 4 pieces puzzle only has 4 pieces in it right ?
Then you take a 100 pieces puzzle you just remove the bttom row of pieces then the top row of pieces (the row are the black bars).
Does the remaining image has a lower pieces density than the puzzle had before removing those rows?
ethomaz
Banned
Only for preorders, no?
A consistent framerate and a good art design is the best outcome, lets hope these dips have been fixed.
Given the game doesn't quite hold 30fps at all times, that'd only be true if what the black bars obscure is nonetheless being rendered, which I very much doubt is the case.
Lys Skygge
Member
I think they would have to drop from 4X MSAA to 2X if they rendered at 16x9 1080p.
Terbinator
Member
It might have been a design choice - I believe it's 800p w/ 4xMSAA too as opposed to 1080 w/0 or 2x. All things being equal, there would be a performance difference if there was further screen real-estate being rendered.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Gotcha.
As for this, it looks good for the resolution, the added heavy noise filter in some shots I suppose helps 'soften the jaggies', and I did wonder the resolution since the game did appear soft in gameplay vids versus 'official shots'. It still is a little disappointing on the technical side almost 3 years in, and 720p/30 with still some performance issues.
Found it from the DF analysis. Thanks for the memory refresh, lol.
LOL at that second video on DF, another typical DF article that try to down play xbox tech crap show. Alan Wake 360 was very very noticeable and blurry compare to PC running at a native 720p resolution. QB will be even more noticeable comparing to PC version at native 1080p resolution.
OdysseusVA
Banned
Don't focus on the negative. You're doing great work.
plagiarize
Banned
No. But is the puzzle easier now that it has less pieces? Yes.
That's why it's important to consider when we're weighing up one game against another. I personally prefer games to go 21:9 like the Order did, than do what Ryse did... but eitherway both are drawing about the same number of pixels, and both are using that reduction in number of pixels to push other things further than they could at 1920 x 1080.
Is it fair to compare The Order and Uncharted 4, say, without considering that The Order is drawing less pixels? I'd say no.
LostDonkey
Member
Yes. Those pieces of the puzzle I just removed are now sitting in a pile next to me. The black bars (rows) don't have pieces in, they are just black. We're just going to have to disagree. I don't want to derail this into an Order discussion any more really.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Where are the bullet casings? Dammit Remedy, this isn't your first rodeo.What the hell at that animation/shooting right at the beginning. It looks like there literally isn't any animation for aiming, he just snaps up into shooting position instantly. Dude is crouched facing left, then immediately snaps his body 180 degrees so he's facing right and aiming. Then he's up against that pillar aim around the left side of it, but the character is still aiming with his body facing right, and he shoots straight through the pillar. That stuff doesn't look great.
abracadaver
Member
Thanks. I thought I was the only one that would be bothered by this.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
So you agree on the same pixel density it's just the choice of a ratio that bothers you.
In an easier for you to get take any 1080p games slap the same bars on it and count the total pixel it'll be the same a the Order but yes let's stop arguing there even more since I got to go.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Going by the screenshots posted a couple of pages ago the image quality looks pretty good for a 720p game. Its a very soft image, but a soft image isn't necessarily bad. They did a good job hiding aliasing.
I noticed that too. At first I thought its was an actual cut in the video until I noticed that its still the same scene and there is just no aimation for going into ADS.
Looks very disorientating in the video.
The reason why resolution is important is because it the biggest factor for image quality.
Having a sub native resolution and scaling the image up to fit the 1920*1080p screen hurts image quality.
The Order however has a native resolution, nothing is upscaled.
Thatswhy it makes no sense to compare The Order to subnative games. Upscaling is the problem, not the resolution.
If Quantum Break would be displayed unscaled on your TV its image quality would be as good as if it was a native 1080p game, there would just be black bars on all sides of the image. But once you blow that image up to fit the screen the image quality takes a hit.
I noticed that too. At first I thought its was an actual cut in the video until I noticed that its still the same scene and there is just no aimation for going into ADS.
Looks very disorientating in the video.
The reason why resolution is important is because it the biggest factor for image quality.
Having a sub native resolution and scaling the image up to fit the 1920*1080p screen hurts image quality.
The Order however has a native resolution, nothing is upscaled.
Thatswhy it makes no sense to compare The Order to subnative games. Upscaling is the problem, not the resolution.
If Quantum Break would be displayed unscaled on your TV its image quality would be as good as if it was a native 1080p game, there would just be black bars on all sides of the image. But once you blow that image up to fit the screen the image quality takes a hit.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
I agree but that wasn't the point it was just a point about pixel density which remains the same.
On the power side of course it's easier to run a game with black bars than a game without it at the same pixel density.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Fair? If one looks obviously better than the other, then it looks better than the other. You can't just reason it into not looking better.
Yeah, it pixel counts at 1080p which is why it works.
Letter-boxing at 1920x800 allowed them to avoid the real issue with lower resolutions and fixed pixel displays. 1600x900 would look just fine on a 1600x900 monitor, for instance, but when you scale it to 1080p, it becomes much softer due to scaling artefacts.
So The Order really shouldn't be used as an example of double standards, as some people have attempted, since it misses why lower resolutions are a problem in the first place.
digoutyoursoul
Member
I used other games as double standards also
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Sure glad Battlefront uses Enlighten GI Solution, and has the great performance at 60FPS. Engines can be built to utilize it better in capable hands.
And seems most of Frostbite engine games are utilizing it moving forward.
plagiarize
Banned
Fun fact. I didn't buy Ryse or Dead Rising 3 on Xbox One in part because of their framebuffers and frame rates. Bought them both on PC though and I enjoyed both.
I am however a big fan of Remedy. I didn't wait to play Alan Wake on PC and I wasn't going to wait to play this on PC either, until I found out that I really didn't have to.
Heck I think I'm on record on here saying I wasn't going to play Watchdogs when I could be playing Wolfenstein at 1080p and 60 fps on PS4 (back before my most recent PC upgrade). It's one of the reasons I own more PS4 games than I own Xbox One games. Because if I can choose, I'm going to choose the game that runs natively on my displays.
BUT Alan Wake would not have been the same game on 360 without the concessions they made to resolution, so I'm glad they did what they did on that game, and I'm going to wait until I play this before deciding if what they gain from a lower resolution on the system is too small a gain for the trade off of reducing the resolution.
They earned the benefit of the doubt from me with Alan Wake on 360. Again, take out all the alpha and volumetric lighting and you've knee capped that game. Those things are fundamental to it's atmosphere *and it's gameplay*. The same could be true here.
If it isn't, I'll be wishing they targeted native resolution on Xbox One as well. Either way, I'll be playing the game at native resolution. On PC, I always drop optional and higher quality effects before I drop resolution.
But Alan Wake is a great example of a time those effects weren't optional and the resolution had to give.
Pestilence11
Member
What the hell at that animation/shooting right at the beginning. It looks like there literally isn't any animation for aiming, he just snaps up into shooting position instantly. Dude is crouched facing left, then immediately snaps his body 180 degrees so he's facing right and aiming. Then he's up against that pillar aim around the left side of it, but the character is still aiming with his body facing right, and he shoots straight through the pillar. That stuff doesn't look great.
First page of this thread is embarrassing to read is what I came to say, but this here is a real issue.
SmartWaffles
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HUaba-o5_c
Actually in the tech analysis video they noticed resolution is hard to pin down, there are signs of the game outputting higher than 720p, citing some of the texture detail does not have the typical upscaled blurriness.
Very curious on what exactly Remedy did here.
Actually in the tech analysis video they noticed resolution is hard to pin down, there are signs of the game outputting higher than 720p, citing some of the texture detail does not have the typical upscaled blurriness.
Very curious on what exactly Remedy did here.
plagiarize
Banned
There's two things to consider. What is a game doing technically, and then what is the final output like. I would argue Alan Wake is a better looking game than say 95% of the games that ran at 720p on Xbox 360 even with it's low resolution.
Or hell, Wind Waker HD looks better to me than a shit load of Xbox One and PS4 games. Because like you say... it looks better.
But it isn't anything like as technically impressive as a lot of games that look much worse.
If someone thinks Quantum Break is one of the best looking console games they've seen, you can't say 'but it's 720p'. But if they claim it's one of the most technically impressive games, you can say, well game X does all the same effects at a higher resolution, so not really.
Is that clear enough?
Yeah, some of the text on that chain link fence looks maybe more detailed than you'd think to have originally been rendered at 720p. But like Dark says... whatever they've done, the end result is *very* soft and mostly consistent with 720p.
I tell you this, scale any of the screenshots down to 720p and the textures look a shit load better. So I'm leaning more towards the geometry and textures being rendered at 720p than not.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
The ire in this thread...... GOD DAMN.
Looks like a compromise in service of more responsive gameplay. (the character snapping up when aiming)
tiredheadcrab
Member
Game looks really good either way. Still very excited to play this.
Bits N Pieces
Member
The review thread is going to be a bloodbath 
Yea it looks weird but I'll reserve judgement for that particular issue until I play it. I am guessing it won't even be noticeable except for maybe the first time you see it, it probably won't be a constant issue type thing.
It has a dynamic resolution scaler.
IcyRhythms
Member
Let's not kid ourselves. This is GAF. If there was a hype thread, the majority of posts would be about "dat 720p doe".
Ricerocket
Member
It's a pretty bad compromise, skipping entire animations is their only solution? It'd make sense in a twitchy gamey shooter but this one is trying to blur the line between gameplay and TV.
Like etta said, you are unlikely to notice this when playing the game.
Colonel Nasty
Member
But what does it run at on Xbox One.2?
SmartWaffles
Member
Dynamic from something like 800p to full 1080p, average resolution hovers around 900.
720p at 30fps with dips...did we even leave last gen? Don't get me wrong, it's a good looking game, and I'm still buying it, but 720p is just massively disappointing and will no doubt look blurry, especially on the 50" and 65" TV's I game on these days. When the PS3/360 came out, I was gaming on 32" and 42" TV's, so ironically 720p would have been less noticeable back then.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I don't think so. At some point the hit image quality take by choosing a lower resolution isn't worth the graphical effects you can put in in return.
If you lower resolution to much the image quality becomes so bad that all the graphical fanciness you put in doesn't really shine anymore.
Imagine what kind of awesome graphical effects developers could put in if the would render at PSP resolution(480*272 iirc), but blow that up to 1080p and it doesn't matter how high quality the effects are, they just won't shine.
Developers always have to walk a thin line. Its always a compromise when you have limited hardware power.
GameAddict411
Member
What a blurry mess. Apart from the character models, the game doesn't look good enough to warrant the 720p resolution. Yikes.
I think there's a better way to compromise though, while still making it look more natural. You snap the camera in immediately when you press the trigger, and you immediately have control of the aim, and the character animates into position lagging behind the camera/control a bit. It's theoretically the same compromise to provide responsiveness, only the cheat is that you are aiming/shooting a few frames before the character model is actually in the aiming position, rather than a cheat where the character instantly jumps to the aiming position.