rakkadakka
Member
That is mind boggling, dude.
None of those things are precluded from a non-physical era.
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Forza 5 will require a day 1 free DLC download
- Thread starter Megasoum
- Start date
That is mind boggling, dude.
None of those things are precluded from a non-physical era.
Future is decided by the market if the market doesn't want it, it's no longer the future.
Xbone DRM's scheme was a possible future but was clearly and soundly refused by the market.
It's no longer the future.
You can stomp your feet and claim all you want, but in the end that's the only single truth of business :
If your customers hate your products, you either change it or die.
the music industry proposed something the market wanted no part on and they failed.
People don't want digital just for digital, they want that because it proved to be a better product.
DRM stuffs customers having no control over their stuffs is not appealing to them no matter how many time you spit about "teh future"
That's a great ideal in theory, but we're getting into the idea of privilege vs. a right. If a company wants to make an internet-dependent system, it's their call. They can target whatever audience they want. If certain users don't meet the requirements needed to enjoy it fully, that's unfortunate, but that's just the way it is. Not every console has to be an offline box. If it makes it a unattractive system, then it's really just not for them. It'd be great if everyone could experience cheap, quality PC gaming via Steam, but it's not feasible for everyone for many reasons. Again, unfortunate, but it doesn't mean PCs should be held back technically.
David H Wong
Banned
"We're going to a system that massively restricts usage and is worse in every way. Because this is the 'new' system, if you oppose it, you are a luddite."
David H Wong
Banned
I'm going to invent a new chair that only has three legs and charges the user an hourly fee to sit in it. If anyone complains, I'm going to call them a luddite.
flyinpiranha
Member
In the current state, yes they are. It would require purchasing more equipment, spending more money, and .... exactly how do I loan my digital games to friends and resell them?
Jawabreaker
Banned
Regardless of whether you paid for a disc or digital version, you still do not own that game. You own a license to play it on the format in which you purchased it. This idea of loss of ownership is misguided, as ownership is an illusion regardless.
Now, people who just like to have a physical collection, I can't argue against. That is their preference.
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
I still cannot understand why we need a thread this long for something so simple. I believe Turn 10 has an excellent track record, and for them to make a move like this one on a launch game is either 1 of 2 options imo:
1- Launch game, so they are working around the clock and are running out of time, so the need for the day 1 patch.
2- They want to include even more stuff in the final release and to do so they will be working even after the game has gone gold to offer everyone more content for free, which is better to me than buying a 5$ character with a 180kb patch!
I understand the fact that some people won't have access to everything they paid for, but I am pretty sure that the patch will be very small (few hundred megs) and that pretty much anyone that has internet can download such a patch, or go to a friend's place that will let you do it (I could even do it by sharing my phone's 3G connection). Or like someone has said previously, the next batch of discs will most likely come with that patch so those who are 100% sure they will never have access to the Internet in their lives could always wait a few more weeks for it.
I think it is pretty much pointless to keep arguing about the digital future: it is coming, is already highly successful on PC and with music and movies, but you still have the option for the physical release if you want to. Why keep arguing when they did a 180; everyone should be happy now. I for one have ordered 3 Xbox One games for launch physically because I got a 20$ rebate on each, but on my Wii U almost all of my games are digital. Obviously anyone who is mentally sane will go for the cheapest price, and 3 of the games I bought on Wii U (brand new) were on sale in store but not on the eshop, so obviously I went for the physical release. However, games cannot be fully compared to other digital mediums like music and movies. Those other formats are compressed and obviously have a loss in fidelity, while games are the same no matter the format (unless devs decide to compress CG cut scenes I guess), so for me owning a digital collection is a convenience while others apparently cannot see it and feel the need to hold a case in their hands or be able to sell it, which is how I used to be, and now that I have gone almost fully digital with Wii U, I am enjoying it and do not want to go back. It is a matter of opinion, and definitely you can see the trend with a lot of people going towards digital formats, but I think the subject has been discussed plenty and there is no need to try to one up each other by stating jobs and age or whatever would make others believe that what you say is more valid.
1- Launch game, so they are working around the clock and are running out of time, so the need for the day 1 patch.
2- They want to include even more stuff in the final release and to do so they will be working even after the game has gone gold to offer everyone more content for free, which is better to me than buying a 5$ character with a 180kb patch!
I understand the fact that some people won't have access to everything they paid for, but I am pretty sure that the patch will be very small (few hundred megs) and that pretty much anyone that has internet can download such a patch, or go to a friend's place that will let you do it (I could even do it by sharing my phone's 3G connection). Or like someone has said previously, the next batch of discs will most likely come with that patch so those who are 100% sure they will never have access to the Internet in their lives could always wait a few more weeks for it.
I think it is pretty much pointless to keep arguing about the digital future: it is coming, is already highly successful on PC and with music and movies, but you still have the option for the physical release if you want to. Why keep arguing when they did a 180; everyone should be happy now. I for one have ordered 3 Xbox One games for launch physically because I got a 20$ rebate on each, but on my Wii U almost all of my games are digital. Obviously anyone who is mentally sane will go for the cheapest price, and 3 of the games I bought on Wii U (brand new) were on sale in store but not on the eshop, so obviously I went for the physical release. However, games cannot be fully compared to other digital mediums like music and movies. Those other formats are compressed and obviously have a loss in fidelity, while games are the same no matter the format (unless devs decide to compress CG cut scenes I guess), so for me owning a digital collection is a convenience while others apparently cannot see it and feel the need to hold a case in their hands or be able to sell it, which is how I used to be, and now that I have gone almost fully digital with Wii U, I am enjoying it and do not want to go back. It is a matter of opinion, and definitely you can see the trend with a lot of people going towards digital formats, but I think the subject has been discussed plenty and there is no need to try to one up each other by stating jobs and age or whatever would make others believe that what you say is more valid.
Keep telling yourself that.
If you buy the physical version, you didn't just buy the licence you owned the product that you can resell.
EULA or no EULA you can resell it since you owned the product.
I'm not talking about the IP or right of distribution either as that's not covered by what you paid when you bought the physical version.
I dont have internet connection at home (i am moving a lot) so i am using net on my phone and at work.
Even if i buy xbone (i could use my phone to register it online) i would not be able to play the game.
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
As far as I have seen it is the only launch game that is affected by that, and I doubt it was what they wanted to do most, and it is also something that should be considered acceptable considering the obvious crunch time the dev probably needs to put in to complete the game on time. I doubt that this was the decision they wanted to make, but the one that they believed they had to do to offer gamers the product they want to deliver. I fail to see how people can be so blind as to not see that.
Diablohead
Member
I already gave my slice of story a few pages back but to keep things short, you can not rely on the internet at all especially if you move or live in areas with ISP problems and throttles.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Either that, or people here know what the likely outcome of this nonsense is (ie: the consumer getting screwed) and aren't particularly receptive to it.
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
Where have they said that after selling it other people need to pay for it. It's a patch, just like any other games that gets patched, it is part of the game you paid for, not additional content that requires you to pay for it. It has been very well detailed in the interview they gave to IGN.
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
Why is it that I have a feeling most people in this thread complaining about the day 1 patch are people who don't plan on buying an Xbox One in the first place?
shinobi602
Member
I don't understand, can't they just put this stuff on the disc? Is the full 50GB really all taken up?
It's not an issue of space. They are making content for the game past when the proper disc gets certified by Microsoft. At that point they can't add anything to the physical disc. So instead, they are having users download that extra content.
Depends on whether it is a code based DLC (then its a once per copy thing and essentially a form of DRM) or whether its a free patch for all on day one (then it is not DRM as you can resell the disc and the new owner can still patch).
Trogdor1123
Member
I dont understand why people are upset wiht this. This is good. They are unable to get this stuff done for day 1 and instead of making people pay for it they are just releasing it digitally day 1. I dont see the issue with this.
ParenegadeM
Banned
This is inaccurate.
While I agree MS communication with the XB1 has probably been the worst I've ever seen in my entire life for any product ever...they didn't take away the ability to sell used games. Or rent them. Or lend them. You could still sell used games we just didn't know to who or how. And family share was supposed to solve the lending problem.
MS also said that they would have special exceptions for those in the military.
FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
What are you even talking about? What I am saying is what's the point in coming to this thread and complain about a problem that won't affect them anyway? I own all systems, I am not partial to any of the new consoles (got both on pre-order, although I have more Xbone games on pre-order than PS4), but I go into several threads and all I see is people who have no interest in the console itself bashing it. And then you tell me I need to grow up? Can't people actually have normal conversations here instead of everything being trolled like on 4chan?
People talk about a half finished game when they have clearly stated it's not the case, it is free, and it is a small patch. Yet you still see people arguing whether or not it's free or that they'll bust their monthly download limit. Personally it pisses me off as this is NeoGAF, not some board where people are not well informed in what's happening in the gaming world. Yet several pages later you still see the same negative points being regurgitated over and over again without reason as they have been discredited. I don't mind arguing, just not arguing for the sake of it like it seems to be on many people' agendas.
Whilst I know you are level headed from what I can see,
As far as this thread goes, I would say it's gone way way way way way beyond just having a preference when people put so much effort into actively chastising a company for not supporting their preference.
And looking at the 'points' being touted against XB1, it's massively reliant on FUD..
ParenegadeM
Banned
I meant on console. Steam is obviously a different beast.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Of course.
The difference is owning a disc means you own a physical license to that content, and first sales doctrine gives us the right to sale/trade/give away that license. And it works well since if we do that, we no longer have access to the material (assuming we didn't make and keep a copy illegally).
With digital that is lost, unless things change in the future and we get some DRM system where licenses can be sold/traded. i.e. some system where it deactivates the licenses and removes the content from your device(s), and transfers it to another users. And you'd have to rebuy it if you wanted it back--just like if if one sells/trades the physical disc.
For me, with games it's just price. I can go digital with no resell/trade in rights if prices come way down (like Steam with their crazy sales or close to that). Currently I only still game because of being able to sell games after beating them, as 99% of console games aren't worth the asking price to me (even after sales/price drops).
As for collecting physical goods, movies are my only weakness there anymore. I like having DVDs/Blurays as that's my main hobby. Games I've never collected as I don't replay games--and I don't collect anything just for collecting's sake.
Music and books I've already made the digital switch. MP3s are almost always way cheaper than the CDs, and I never listen to CDs anymore anyway so just a waste. eBook prices are all over the map--I just avoid buying ones that aren't cheaper than the print versions, and love the convenience of not having to sell/donate books after finishing (I don't re-read), or hassling with library wait lists and due dates.
Arkam
Member
'
You people all know that that most every game released in the second half of the current gen required day on title update? SO now its the developer factoring it in (to add content) instead of sony/MS requiring it in order to grant approval... and that is worse?
Preorder canceled? Because the "whole game" isnt on the disc? Really? Go boot up ANY game in you ps3/360 library and tell me if you don't get an update. Or go try and play an online multiplayer game from before 2010... are those servers still online?
LukasTaves
Member
Weird, he says that cloud saves are playable on 360 if you are offline, and are synced when you go on, but for the few times I tried using the cloud saves when offline it never worked...
Because the content has to be ready for launch, not by the time the game goes gold, which usually happens a month or more before the release date.
Delusibeta
Banned
This is the version of history Microsoft would like you to believe. It's pretty much entirely false.
Neuromancer
Member
It's probably true. I'm not buying a One, even if I was I probably wouldn't buy this game anyway. Still I'm allowed to have an opinion on it and I think pressing half made games to disc and requiring people to download the rest is a bullshit move. I really don't want it to become the norm this generation.
I am happy that Microsoft reversed course on their ridiculous policies, but I am still getting the feeling that the Xbox One launch is going to be a mess considering how they are having to patch the policies out and so forth. If I do ever get the next Xbox, it will be a year or two down the line. It is just not an attractive prospect at all right now.
This thread is many things, not everyone is arguing that this will be a POS that no one should ever touch with a ten feet pole with garlic on one side.
You have people here arguing that when you buy a game you only own a livence (which is BS of the highest order btw).
You'll see plenty of topic where people are not that informed and discuss it too, we even have regular threads from pachter of all people!
Simply jumping up & down and crying over people being out for some blood doesn't further the conversation but paint you in fanboys colors out to defend his favourite piece of plastic.
Also the bold is your project as far as I've read here, I'm more than willing to admit to being wrong if you can point out where it was said.
Also the communication about this issue having been disastruous, we're not even sure whether or not the registration will be mandatory or not.
Wasnt this originally part of the Xbox One plan before the internet raged?
GT5 did it without too many compaints from the core fans
It wasn't full priced
Neuromancer
Member
They did take away the ability to sell used games in at least some cases. It was going to be up to the publisher to decide whether to let you or or not. Even then you would either have to take it to an MS approved retailer.
There was no provision ever explained for lending games. There was a one time gifting of a game to a person on your friends list, so long as that friend was on your list for at least 30 days and again only if the publisher allowed it.
Even MS was unclear on the details of family share. I think its safe to assume it was not going to be the 10 games shared among people free for all that some people here think it was.
Finally the official stance on the military guys was they should buy a 360.
GT5 did it without too many compaints from the core fans
:lol
GT5 wasn't? I'm not talking prologue. That was just selling people demo versions of a future game. Horrible as it may sound.
I was, misunderstanding, my bad.
Yeah, you're talking nonsense. GT5 wasn't half-made, GT5 was unfinished.
Apples to oranges bud.
The post you're quoting was written when the article stated that the patch was required to play the game. As in, the game disc was non-functional without a day one patch..
That's never happened on a console. Pretty much every game has a day 1 patch full of bugfixes, maybe some content, whatever, but I've NEVER purchased a console game that didn't work out of the box. Would it boot me off Live if I didn't patch? yes. Did it stop me from playing? No.
It's a moot point now, but goes to my point in another post in this thread about the knee-jerk reaction folks are having to the original news. It wasn't a day one patch, it wasn't day one DLC, it was Day 1 Disc 2.
Of course, it's still Day 1 Disc 2, but at least the disc works without the download. It may not be content complete, but the game boots and you can play.
Neuromancer
Member
Day 1 Disc 2- that's a great way to describe it.
ParenegadeM
Banned
All of this was posted before the 180. And there is nothing to indicate that it is false. Tell you what you post your sources for what you're saying and I'll post mine then we'll have a good laugh about it afterwards.
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