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[entremet]

What...? There is a training mode.

They probably mean a guided one like VF4 EVO. It's barebones, plus no trials yet.

 

[TheYanger]

This is a bullshit argument. The 'quality' of the mechanics don't matter if you can't have a quality experience in a way that you expect the game to offer it. Quantity IS important. What if I made the best platforming mechanics of all time and make a single level? That's a shit game.

 

[Joegrine_TT]

Gameplay is point for sure, but the important content for example arcade mode and VS CPU. is essential for my practice, Training mode only gets you so far, boredom will eventually kick in. I have the pc version and literally nothing was working. Couldn't even invite a friend to the battle lounge. I was stuck with the lame story mode that I finished in 45 mins with all characters.......

 

[farisr]

I haven't followed this game closely, but I always get Street Fighter eventually. Is there really no Arcade and no VS cpu? What?

Yeah no arcade or a traditional vs CPU mode.

SP wise, only Survival mode, A story prologue that seems to be set to very easy difficulty (with no difficulty options) and consists of around 4 single round matches per character, and training mode where you have to tinker around with the settings to have something resembling a proper match.

Trials & Daily Challenges will come next month as part of an update.
Cinematic Story will be in June.

Capcom said they're looking into Arcade mode, after the backlash. No idea when that will show up.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Are you talking about challenges/trials/tutorials, because from what I've seeing training mode is pretty good.

What...? There is a training mode.

I mean a more robust one. The one that's in there right now is perfectly fine though.

 

[LordRaptor]

I haven't followed this game closely, but I always get Street Fighter eventually. Is there really no Arcade and no VS cpu? What?

There will be, but there isn't now.
It's why there is backlash that this has been released as though it is a content complete full retail title, when it would probably have been better suited to an Early Access or "Preorder to access the beta now" type title.

 

[Anth0ny]

It's obvious that people value quantity over quality and I'll never understand it.

I'm having an awesome time with SFV.

 

[Oersted]

Oh here we go, another puff piece telling consumers that they are wrong for not bending over and taking a companies crap. Where Have I heard this before?

It is not that bad. The title is just very clickbaity, thats why it probably caught shinobi602 attention in the first place.

Here is the conclusion of the article:

When all of these things arrive, the version of Street Fighter 5 they create will indeed be a worthy, packed-out offering that it will be easy to recommend to anyone, without reservation. The quality of the core game will not have changed of course. But then that part never needed to. But the thing is, in 2016, it’s not enough to just have AAA quality. You need to deliver it in a AAA package as well.

Which we can all agree on. Not really room for discussion if it wouldn't be for the stupid ass title.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

They probably mean a guided one like VF4 EVO. It's barebones, plus no trials yet.

Ah trials.

 

[The Jackdog]

i totally disagree with the article.

people come to street fighter lookin for different things. in SF5, it caters to the competitive online players only right now.

Which is FINE. But the games have a lot more fans than just them. And theres nothing there for them right now

 

[Deleted member 752119]

His point isn't to ignore it. He fully acknowledged some problems in this article and his review.

Yep. I get why many people don't feel it's worth the money in it's current state.

I just don't see why that's worth the blood boiling rage many people online have about it. They were pretty clear about the launch content and what additional content is coming in March and June for free, and when paid content will start coming out as well.

Easy enough to look at than and just say it's not worth it for you until whenever on the release schedule there's enough out to warrant your purchase. And that allows those who feel it's worth their $60 to buy now and enjoy the hell out of it in the meantime.

Seems like a win win to me. People just have some abject hatred to this early access type approach where you get games sooner, but not all features are their for a couple of months. I have no problem with it as it gives people more options on when to buy it. As long as the company is clear on what's included day one and when future updates are coming out--provided their a trustworthy dev of course.

But it's GAF so there's lots of hyperbole and ridiculous ranting which is why the site has largely become a laughing stock in the gaming community and so few reps from major developers and publishers bother visiting anymore. This hardcore niche is just largely irrelevant to the success of mainstream AAA games, so the community is largely only relevant to indie devs these days.

People can rant all they way, but SFV will sell well. Capcom will keep supporting it. It will have long legs and sell a ton of DLC even with their stupid fight money system eating into that some.

 

[Radical Edward]

That is entirely subjective. I personally am not a fan of having to go through the past 29 opponents that I had no problems defeating just to get the chance to face the 30th opponent that I lost to earlier. Folks into arcade are not necessarily going to like survival or consider it better. There's a reason why it's a separate mode.

Yeah, I can see that. But for me, it's addicting and makes me want to get better. It felt survival was kind of like arcade mode with only one quarter. In past arcade modes, if I got stuck, it was easy because of endless continues amd I wouldn't really go back to the mode after I beat it. Bison felt way more like a final boss on normal mode than Seth's cheap-ass ever did. You are right, though, it is all subjective. I even warned a bunch of my friends about what the game does and doesn't offer at launch and they bought it anyway. They haven't played street fighter before but are already having way more fun playing it than they did with MKX. I asked them why and they said it is just more fun (even losing) and that they get a crazy rush when finally snagging a win online.

I hope the reviews don't damage the property too bad because the core game is pretty freaking awesome and definitely worth the price of admission, for me.

 

[Garlador]

Disproportionate is exactly the word I used in another thread.

One of the biggest complaints about the game is already fixed, and many of the arguments being thrown around are by people who are obviously ignorant of the in game mechanics.

Feel free to talk shit about the game's flaws, but when you say that the game doesn't work offline or won't let you fight AI you're just flat out wrong.

The game doesn't work WELL offline (no Fight Money, lack of progress saved, lack of offline modes) and fighting the AI is heavily restricted (to Story and Survival, which is pathetic and comical in its lack of options and features).

You can play your buddy online? Great. You're starting to enjoy the meta-game and figure out the mechanics? Great.

You want to play something other than a human being offline? Your options are still highly limited to a degree that we haven't seen since... ever? I can't recall a less offline, single-player-friendly fighting game in ages. I'm really pulling my brain here. Even the original Street Fighter II and Mortal Kombat had an Arcade Mode and easy 1 vs 1 CPU fights (because they got their start in the Arcades...). They even had difficulty selectors upon console release, and that was well over 25 years ago.

 

[Kane Zakharov]

People comparing this game to the likes of Battlefront as an example of "quality over quantity" doesn't really bring about a positive impression of the game.

Seems like the game's price isn't properly reflected in what it has to offer.

 

[Joegrine_TT]

It's obvious that people value quantity over quality and I'll never understand it.

I'm having an awesome time with SFV.

I don't thnk anyone has had a problem with the gameplay itself tho. Man this game reminds me so much of 3S. but I think a lot of people like literally had nothing to do. my PC copy was literally unplayable. I come from work to test out the online and literally got 2 matches only 2 matches for 2 days......

 

[TGO]

I was ready to defend SFV, even thought the Hour story mode wasn't bad.
After completing it with Ken and realising it's an hour for all characters changes things.
It's online could be a defence but when I was waiting...and waiting for match last night it did start to show its cracks.
The problem today is online, developers (yes even with a fighter) should assume buyers don't have Internet or someone to play with.
SP should always come first, I know a lot don't agree but we wouldn't have this problem if they did, like they use to and the online would still be as good.
SFA3 did it right and the Story mode wasn't bad in SFV if it was a Hour per character instead of 6 minutes.
As I said I was ready to defend it but I can see why people are disappointed
My biggest disappointment is the lack of characters even with the announced DLC ones
There are a lot missing this time round.

 

[Kintaro]

Disproportionate is exactly the word I used in another thread.

One of the biggest complaints about the game is already fixed, and many of the arguments being thrown around are by people who are obviously ignorant of the in game mechanics.

Feel free to talk shit about the game's flaws, but when you say that the game doesn't work offline or won't let you fight AI you're just flat out wrong.

Already fixed? You mean the constant drops people are still having? Battle Lounges not working? Getting kicked out of survival because the server boots you and you lose progress? These are fixed? Nope!

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

What would be considered the appropriate backlash then against a sequel which underdelivers relative to its previous iterations?

I suppose the backlash may be considered disproportionate considering the game will be receiving regular updates, but this isn't just a result of a certain product releasing in a certain state, it's a failure of the fanbase and the review sites not finding a way to adjust appropriately to the new paradigm of games as a service where patience is suddenly asked for in place of release date review scores and content is fluid and ever changing, it's a failure of Capcom for releasing such a product without core features specifically to meet a certain deadline, it's potentially a failure of everyone involved for abiding, defending, and patronizing unfinished products as merely a new paradigm and not anti-consumer bullshit, and it's potentially a failure of everyone involved for singling out this product as a poster child for something we've all allowed to happen. There's a lot going on here, and it's all worth discussing and frankly getting angry over.

 

[farisr]

They were pretty clear about the launch content and what additional content is coming in March and June for free, and when paid content will start coming out as well.

Most of the backlash isn't about trials or cinematic story mode not being in at launch (which is what Capcom was perfectly clear about). It's about Arcade and vs AI that Capcom never addressed at all.

 

[StereoVsn]

Yeah no arcade or a traditional vs CPU mode.

SP wise, only Survival mode, A story prologue that seems to be set to very easy difficulty (with no difficulty options) and consists of around 4 single round matches per character, and training mode where you have to tinker around with the settings to have something resembling a proper match.

Trials & Daily Challenges will come next month as part of an update.
Cinematic Story will be in June.

Capcom said they're looking into Arcade mode, after the backlash. No idea when that will show up.

Yeah, to me the lack of Arcade or Vs. CPU or good Training modes is a deal breaker. I suck at SF and have been buying it for decades anyway mainly for local play and SP but going to draw the line at V. That said I am fairly certain Capcom will path that stuff in and I can get the game for $20-$30 in a year.

 

[Stone Ocean]

People comparing this game to the likes of Battlefront as an example of "quality over quantity" doesn't really bring about a positive impression of the game.

Seems like the game's price isn't properly reflected in what it has to offer.

Eh no, it's nowhere near to Battlefront. Battlefront fails both as a single and multiplayer experience, SFV as a multiplayer game is lacking some features but the game itself is as deep and replayable as ever.

SFV is closer to something like R6 Siege

 

[Joegrine_TT]

What would be considered the appropriate backlash then against a sequel which underdelivers relative to its previous iterations?

I suppose the backlash may be considered disproportionate considering the game will be receiving regular updates, but this isn't just a result of a certain product releasing in a certain state, it's a failure of the fanbase and the review sites not finding a way to adjust appropriately to the new paradigm of games as a service, it's a failure of Capcom for releasing such a product without core features specifically to meet a certain deadline, it's potentially a failure of everyone involved for abiding, defending, and patronizing unfinished products as merely a new paradigm and not anti-consumer bullshit, and it's potentially a failure of everyone involved for singling out this product as a poster child for something we've all allowed to happen.

Precisely. Do you take manly hugs by chance?

 

[Skilletor]

The worst part is that almost all of the backlash would have been avoided if they launched in another month.

I wasn't worried about the future of the franchise, but I am now.

 

[ezekielpacman]

The Capcom/SFV supporters act like this year's round of FGC tournaments are some sort of one off date with destiny, and that SFV's presence was somehow critical to the fate of the universe. It's just so myopic and bizarre.

It was an utterly stupid business decision to release the game in this state given the frontloaded nature of sales, and I will be amazed if they don't suffer for this in the long term. I'd be weeping if I was a shareholder.

As for its legs... word of mouth has been atrocious, with any casual picking up the game between now and March no doubt being left baffled as to where they were supposed to be finding $60 worth of content.

Never say never - Destiny suffered a mixed launch re content and recovered well to become a platform - but it is off to a catastrophic start.

 

[Razzorn34]

It's obvious that people value quantity over quality and I'll never understand it.

I'm having an awesome time with SFV.

Yeah. The game could have been local VS and online multiplayer only, and I wouldn't have cared.

I guess this is another one of those situations where you should research before you buy.

 

[Glorified G]

How the hell did this game receive so positive reviews if everyone hates it?

Both the PC & PS4 versions on metacritic are in the 70's and it's the lowest rated SF mainline. It's not even in the top ten for PS4 games released in 2016. While the reviews have mostly been positive, the unprecedented lack of features has definitely also been highlighted.

 

[Mik317]

Capcom being put in a position to deliver quality over quantity based on a release schedule isn't really something that can be pushed back to consumers, though. And consumers don't have to "please understand" when the price tag remains the same for less game than they've gotten in the past.

With the SF series Capcom has set a standard for delivering a certain amount of value. Online competitive play and certain single player modes were key parts of SFIV. They've built a reputation for having certain qualities, including rich single player experiences, in their games.

If they wanted to go the game as a service route and drop modes that don't make them additional revenue they should have dropped base price and made up the difference with their Zenny model for online/service content. But they're charging full price and still using the Zenny model, which to me is pretty crappy. To me they haven't delivered quality or quantity regardless of the strength of the core fighting mechanics.

Like this game is missing some basic features and all...but I don't think any street fighter sans Alpha 3 had a "rich" single player experience. Hell the single player modes is what most people have complained about for years....lets not lie to bolster your points now.

 

[A Link to the Past]

No? Not really. Not inherently, anyway. Here's the thing, SF4 wasn't perfect, but people liked SF4, it didn't suffer for having as many characters as it did. Thus, it's not too outlandish that people would want at least as many here as there were there.

 

[paragonpro]

Battlefront was also a quality game, but was rightfully shit on for its lacking content. Street fighter doesnt get a pass because of its brand name, or because we love capcom. Its going to face the same scorn.

 

[Cyber Caesar]

We all know Capcom mechanics have been golden for twenty five years. The FGC is perfectly content with playing SF2 at EVO. We all know this.

 

[A.E Suggs]

let's see if sales tell the same story.

You can't really use that as a gauge for or against. Plenty of bad games sell well, just as plenty of good games sell bad. I know this is subjective but I'm just saying. I paid for that crap that is star wars battlefront and so did a lot of my pals and that game didn't have quality, but it sold well thanks to people like us.

 

[gelf]

I think this release just proved that way more people buy Street Fighter that don't care about the competitive scene and like to play single player modes then either Capcom or the hardcore fighting game community thought.

This element of the fanbase just about got by with basic arcade modes over the years and were content. Removing that was the last straw.

 

[icespide]

This is a bullshit argument. The 'quality' of the mechanics don't matter if you can't have a quality experience in a way that you expect the game to offer it. Quantity IS important. What if I made the best platforming mechanics of all time and make a single level? That's a shit game.

if it was the best mechanics of all time? I'd sure as shit buy/play that game

 

[Mik317]

Most of the backlash isn't about trials or cinematic story mode not being in at launch (which is what Capcom was perfectly clear about). It's about Arcade and vs AI that Capcom never addressed at all.

the lack of arcade mode was known for weeks. Poeple may have thought the story mode was the replacement but it was known that there was no arcade mode.

 

[FrontalMonk]

The worst part is that almost all of the backlash would have been avoided if they launched in another month.

I wasn't worried about the future of the franchise, but I am now.

ding ding ding.

I get that they wanted to release it for tournament play, but in doing so they crippled it by leaving out so much to get it out the door early. Literally the one thing I want to do in this game I have to wait until next month to experience, which is 8 player lounges. All I want to do is play this game online with my friends, and I think that's a pretty basic expectation.

With that in mind, I'm happy with my purchase, and I love the actual gameplay, but I just want to have more than a 2 person lobby, and I didn't think that was too much to ask for in 2016.

 

[voodoopanda]

Fighting games are generally in a really weird place, and the issues with SF5 have really brought it to the forefront.

These are games that for some people last 5+ years, while other people play them casually for a month or so and then shelve them. Street Fighter V has enough content & depth to appease the folks who plan to play for 5+ years, but not enough to make the people who wanna play for a month or so happy.

 

[Maintenance]

I think this release just proved that way more people buy Street Fighter that don't care about the competitive scene and like to play single player modes then either Capcom or the hardcore fighting game community thought.

That people still don't get this is baffling.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Yeah. The game could have been local VS and online multiplayer only, and I wouldn't have cared.

I guess this is another one of those situations where you should research before you buy.

This.

Besides people have different priorities when it comes to fighting games anyway. For some it's not a worthy for a buy for others it is. It's that simple.

 

[Garlador]

i totally disagree with the article.

people come to street fighter lookin for different things. in SF5, it caters to the competitive online players only right now.

Which is FINE. But the games have a lot more fans than just them. And theres nothing there for them right now

Exactly, and that really flies in the face of their "we're going to cater to BOTH" statements before release, especially when I'm reading interviews with headlines like "'Street Fighter V' creator says his game is meant for pros and noobs alike" and he says things that get translated as "From there, people can go into the [arcade mode] and play the character stories and immerse themselves in the world of Street Fighter V."

Hardcore Street Fighter fans don't like to hear about it; they have their hardcore fighting 1 vs 1 and that's all they need. But Street Fighter is bigger than that; bigger than THEM. It's bigger than EVO. It's bigger than just the FGC.

It's TV shows and comics. It's anime and movies. It's lunchboxes and action figures. It's music CDs and cosplay. It's spin-offs and puzzle games. It's clothing and Hello Kitty tie-ins. It's posters and fan art and fan fiction and coffee mugs and a bajillion crossovers.

Street Fighter is bigger than just its most basic, barebones player-vs-player set-up, but you wouldn't know it playing SFV.

And that's left a LOT of players out in the cold.

This.

Besides people have different priorities when it comes to fighting games anyway. For some it's not a worthy for a buy for others it is. It's that simple.

I read interviews LAST MONTH mentioning an Arcade Mode. If it was a mistranslation, Capcom never clarified.

And it sort of is that simple; a huge percentage of players are openly saying the game, right now, is NOT worth the $60 and telling players and fans not to buy it and wait. Hardcore players shouldn't be offended when casual players do that and say the game they enjoy is lacking in those areas.

 

[New002]

Or we value both and the absence of either one can't and shouldn't be ignored.

Came to say this.

 

[farisr]

the lack of arcade mode was known for weeks. Poeple may have thought the story mode was the replacement but it was known that there was no arcade mode.

It's funny how you chose this post of mine of all to reply to, I've been saying arcade mode (or an equivalent) and talking about them not being clear about story mode's structure which led to people into believing it was an equivalent, but of course you choose this post to reply to. LOL.

 

[Negaduck]

As a lifelong fighting game fan, playing sf5 feels amazing. I know most people who pick up fighting games casually might be dissapointed in the lack of modes but I could play SF5 for hours and hours and not get tired.


Hopefully the long term dlc plans and support makes up for the poor launch.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

As a lifelong fighting game fan, playing sf5 feels amazing. I know most people who pick up fighting games casually might be dissapointed in the lack of modes but I could play SF5 for hours and hours and not get tired.


Hopefully the long term dlc plans and support makes up for the poor launch.

It will but I just feel a lot of folks haven't been keeping up with capcom plans.

 

[Skilletor]

As a lifelong fighting game fan, playing sf5 feels amazing. I know most people who pick up fighting games casually might be dissapointed in the lack of modes but I could play SF5 for hours and hours and not get tired.


Hopefully the long term dlc plans and support makes up for the poor launch.

Hopefully there will be long term support if/when this game underperforms.

 

[A.E Suggs]

Also, related, it's the customers that determine the value of a product, not the game makers or publishers. If the customers and players feel the value isn't there, that the game isn't measuring up in one way or another, that supplants a publisher, a games journalist, or PR guy telling the players en mass that they're wrong.

The bold is true, so why then do some people get mad that people think the game as it is right now is quality? People on lots of gaming sites like the reviewer said are telling people that everyone paid 60 dollars for a beta like no one got their money's worth at all.

I think this release just proved that way more people buy Street Fighter that don't care about the competitive scene and like to play single player modes then either Capcom or the hardcore fighting game community thought.

This element of the fanbase just about got by with basic arcade modes over the years and were content. Removing that was the last straw.

Well we don't exactly know that yet, I don't think the backlash online is a good indicator of anything.

 

[Gunslinger]

Hopefully there will be long term support if/when this game underperforms.

This game is already underperforming. Judging from how long it takes to find matches, bad word of mouth all over, poor steam sales so far yeah...... I hope they don't pull the plug after first year dlc..

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Exactly, and that really flies in the face of their "we're going to cater to BOTH" statements before release, especially when I'm reading interviews with headlines like "'Street Fighter V' creator says his game is meant for pros and noobs alike" and he says things that get translated as "From there, people can go into the [arcade mode] and play the character stories and immerse themselves in the world of Street Fighter V."

Hardcore Street Fighter fans don't like to hear about it; they have their hardcore fighting 1 vs 1 and that's all they need. But Street Fighter is bigger than that; bigger than THEM. It's bigger than EVO. It's bigger than just the FGC.

It's TV shows and comics. It's anime and movies. It's lunchboxes and action figures. It's music CDs and cosplay. It's spin-offs and puzzle games. It's clothing and Hello Kitty tie-ins. It's posters and fan art and fan fiction and coffee mugs and a bajillion crossovers.

Street Fighter is bigger than just its most basic, barebones player-vs-player set-up, but you wouldn't know it playing SFV.

And that's left a LOT of players out in the cold.


I read interviews LAST MONTH mentioning an Arcade Mode. If it was a mistranslation, Capcom never clarified.

And it sort of is that simple; a huge percentage of players are openly saying the game, right now, is NOT worth the $60 and telling players and fans not to buy it and wait. Hardcore players shouldn't be offended when casual players do that and say the game they enjoy is lacking in those areas.

I'm not offended my point is that people spend money as they see fit. Some find value in its current state others don't. The only sad thing is that for each game you purchase nowadays you have to research, back then you saw capcom or square enix you had no doubts. How each person wants to spend their money that's their problem that's why I said it's simple, just know if the product offers you is worth your hard earn cash.

 

[Hyun Sai]

There is no quality in the battle launge still broken and noticeable frame drops on PS4.

We're a group of 5 friends in the town, couldn't even do 1 online match with each other. Even if we want to do it offline, frame drops are unacceptable.

The backlash is entirely deserved.

 

[zelas]

The outrage is definitely disproportionate. A lot of people here complaining were well aware of what this game was going to be launching with and yet they're acting like Capcom scammed them out of $60. I can understand a casual gamer who just discovered this game at walmart one day being upset. But the "early access" nonsense coming from posters here is ridiculous.

 

[TGO]

As a lifelong fighting game fan, playing sf5 feels amazing. I know most people who pick up fighting games casually might be dissapointed in the lack of modes but I could play SF5 for hours and hours and not get tired.


Hopefully the long term dlc plans and support makes up for the poor launch.

How? I had 2 matches in a Hour last night.