bar mitzvah
Neo Member
Then you acknowledge that he had no source, and that Rtings hasn't stated that this isn't going to be world ending with 4K gaming mode. Got it.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
HDR 4k TV sets with lowest input lag?
- Thread starter Croatoan
- Start date
Then you acknowledge that he had no source, and that Rtings hasn't stated that this isn't going to be world ending with 4K gaming mode. Got it.
I had been keeping an eye out for 4K monitors with HDR for my eventual XB1 S purchase next month, but didn't find anything at a decent price in the short amount of time I searched. So then I started checking out small 4K HDR TVs. But boy did those lag input times turn me off quick, even before HDR is turned on. I'm used to strictly playing on monitors, and I play online multiplayer games heavily so I can't have that as an option at all. It's the big reason why I don't play by friends on their TVs, the delay throws me off so much.
I think I'm going to just buy a nice quality 1080p monitor with the lowest response time in time for October, and see what a HDR-capable monitor will cost at the end of the year or next year in time for Scorpio. Going to find that monitor thread on GAF in a bit.
Edit: First search result in Google seems to be exactly what I'm looking for: https://www.monitornerds.com/best-gaming-monitor-for-you-144hz-1440p-gsync-freesync-4k/
I think I'm going to just buy a nice quality 1080p monitor with the lowest response time in time for October, and see what a HDR-capable monitor will cost at the end of the year or next year in time for Scorpio. Going to find that monitor thread on GAF in a bit.
Edit: First search result in Google seems to be exactly what I'm looking for: https://www.monitornerds.com/best-gaming-monitor-for-you-144hz-1440p-gsync-freesync-4k/
mangochutney
Member
As someone posted on here already, Leo Bodner testing is not doable for 4k.
You can see this in the screenshots for the lag results, in the top right - 1080p.
And just below that result is the HDR enabled result, so they didn't stipulate how they tested or what resolution. So the assumption is 1080p via Leo Bodner too.
If they've commented in the comment section that it was 4k, then I guess it was 4k and they used unknown alternative measurements.
InfiniteUnrest
Member
How's the LG UH8500? I am eyeing that one for HDR/4k with low input lag and 3D. Anyone have experience?
Karak
Member
Nope source is already known. Sorry freaking out and talking about world ending and escalating isn't needed. No reason to lose it. Shit happens.
Ya we discussed that already above. On mobile at that time and didn't see the leobodner bit
Ya right now the two just aren't comparable in many ways when it comes to that damned input lag
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
By the way, here are my sources for the comment on 10ms higher in 4k from Rtings. It's in the Q&A in their testing section.
Source: http://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag
I'm GUESSING for the Samsung KS series that the input lag in Game Mode with HDR on in 4K is about 34ish MS since they state 22.6 ms input lag with HDR in 4K in Game mode (I'm guessing from a 1080P source) according to their review for that series.
Source: http://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag
I'm GUESSING for the Samsung KS series that the input lag in Game Mode with HDR on in 4K is about 34ish MS since they state 22.6 ms input lag with HDR in 4K in Game mode (I'm guessing from a 1080P source) according to their review for that series.
Reallink
Member
I sound like a broken record repeating this every thread similar questions pop up in, but it's a slime ball tactic on LG's part that warrants pointing out explicitly every time. LG's 6100 series use WRGB panels that substitutes a white subpixel for either the R, G, or B in each trio. With colored material, this represents a 25-33% resolution loss on average so you might say they're more like 3K rather than 4K. It's "legal" to sell them as 4K because the standards resolution patterns are black and white (which it passes), not color. There is a very real and noticeable loss of detail. It's also an 8bit panel rather than 10, which most imaging science experts dub Faux-HDR. An 8bit panel can't display the increased number of luminance and color gradations that is HDR's name sake. That's not just on LG, most of the cheaper "HDR" sets also use 8bit panels (such as Samsung's KS7000's and no doubt many others).
Karak
Member
Ya shady HDR is here right now and that sucks. Panel switched, crappier edge lighting, input lag, lotsof shortcuts but this one is probably the worst to be honest. Thats just straight up not right.
Cool, thanks bro.
Karak
Member
Nope there are a couple. But it seems to reside right where it should. A novelty that you can get IF you want.
I bought a curved set, but only because it had better input lag than the non-curved model and I didn't need the bells and whistles of the next model up. The curve on this LG seems more subtle than what I saw on a Samsung of the same size. I have no problem with it, but don't need it to be curved either.
Karak
Member
Ya I haven't heard anyone complain ever. I have heard that people are sort of "eh" about them once they get them though. Its a good novelty but like any it does somewhat limit things like edge viewing and so forth. Then again so does a shit panel
The ones I liked were so subtle that they might as well have been flat at that point
I like that they are offered if they fit into exactly what someone wants for their viewing device.Beer Monkey
Member
I'm waiting a couple of years. None of the fast 4K sets use per-pixel lighting. The market is immature.
Well last year the majority of the top spec TV's were mostly curved. This year it looks like there are a lot more non-curved options in that area. That was my point.
potatohead
Member
Does the colour look any more consistent being that the the screen is curved and all "facing" directly to the viewer?
Serious question. I'm curious. Never seen a curved TV. I probably won't buy one, but really curious if it impacts colour gradient or appearance across the screen.
Totally. You're right. It seems like they sold much worse than flat models so companies are pivoting away from them.
Tough to say because I went from an okay 2013 LG led to a 2016 LG OLED. This thing is stunning and I don't see any issues caused by the curve, but it's a whole different ball of wax compared to my old set.
yea, but now I'm reading that this measurement might be 1080p HDR. I want to know definitively what that number is at 4k HDR before dropping $1k-$2k on a TV and finding out the real number is closer to 40 ms....or worse. Only reason I'm even thinking about buying one of these this Fall is to get the best possible experience out of PS4 Pro, but input lag is my #1 consideration in a display over everything else because 99% of my time playing is PvP MP.
Add controller lag, capture card lag (if you use any), and yeah, I can absolutely understand how 20ms is dog shit. When you're used to monitors having very very low latency.
1 frame isn't usually a huge deal except maybe in fighters, and even then it's only an extremely small percentage of people that will see any sort of real world difference. I would never play a M/KB shooter with that sort of lag(my monitor is 4ms, and it's the slowest one that I've owned), but gaming with a controller is a completely different story.
OT, I guess I'll have to go with a Samsung or P-series. I'll have to do some more research though. I'm most likely getting a TV on Black Friday or before. I fucked up when I bought my last TV in 2013 and went picture quality above all else(Samsumg PN60F8500). I didn't play a whole lot of console games until October 2014 with Destiny. Boy did I get a rude awakening then. The 120-ish ms in cinema mode and 62 in PC game mode(so likely higher non-PC) is trash. I'm just now at the point of getting a new TV as I can't take it anymore. Not sure how I didn't want to throw up when playing Resogun though.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that 4ms wouldn't be your monitors response time by any chance would it? Lowest input lag I've seen recorded on displaylag for a 1080p monitor is 9ms.
Dimming is not a determining factor for HDR. Yes, local dimming would help with black level.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
That's with game mode on and HDR disabled. With HDR enabled, Samsung has been generally better.
Yankee Ruin X
Member
Just a quick one, I run my PS4 through an A/V receiver and then obviously HDMIs to the TV/Projector. Does doing this increase the input lag even further? It's not something I ever really considered until now.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
It can do yes. Look up your model online and see.
Thank you for letting me know. Fixed now.
SkylineRKR
Member
My Panny V20 has 20ms and its perfect for gaming. I'll settle with that.
Sources? Sure.
http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-...d-vs-1080p-full-hd-tvs-and-upscaling-compared
So that's another 30ms input lag on top of the 26.1ms that it has at 1080p. I would say 56.1ms is high.
Another source is what Darklor01 posted
The fact is, displaying a native 4k input means a higher input lag. There are two sources for you, do you have any that say the opposite?
Sources? Sure.
http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-...d-vs-1080p-full-hd-tvs-and-upscaling-compared
So that's another 30ms input lag on top of the 26.1ms that it has at 1080p. I would say 56.1ms is high.
Another source is what Darklor01 posted
The fact is, displaying a native 4k input means a higher input lag. There are two sources for you, do you have any that say the opposite?
So I will have less input lag if I set the PS4 Pro to output at 1080p?
SEGAvangelist
Member
It helps with contrast levels. HDR brightness is very very high so without good local dimming or an OLED, HDR modes look bad (overblown backlight and washed out) especially in a dark room.
Sources? Sure.
http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-...d-vs-1080p-full-hd-tvs-and-upscaling-compared
So that's another 30ms input lag on top of the 26.1ms that it has at 1080p. I would say 56.1ms is high.
Another source is what Darklor01 posted
The fact is, displaying a native 4k input means a higher input lag. There are two sources for you, do you have any that say the opposite?
i'd like to see more tests on that. I have an LG OLED (C6) and it feels like native 4K has less input lag than 1080p. It isn't a huge difference, but 1080p input feels slightly more laggy to me.
DeadlyVirus
Member
In terms of input lag, Vizio is the way to go (19-25ms depending on the model). Also take into consideration the price is amazing
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
It's actually higher when a 4K HDR enabled signal is taken into account. What it is exactly still isn't quite clear given the differing posts above in how much more latency that can add (for the 4K signal part anyway, the HDR part is covered in other posts and in RTing's reviews).
Sources? Sure.
http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-...d-vs-1080p-full-hd-tvs-and-upscaling-compared
So that's another 30ms input lag on top of the 26.1ms that it has at 1080p. I would say 56.1ms is high.
Another source is what Darklor01 posted
The fact is, displaying a native 4k input means a higher input lag. There are two sources for you, do you have any that say the opposite?
That's a different model though.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
I'm going to preface this as personal opinion and maybe it would sound dumb, but there may be a "Feels Like" affect. In weather reports they have the actual temp and a "feels like" temp. Maybe there are multiple factors in why that TV you have feels less laggy in 4K? Perhaps your perception is swayed by a sort of placebo effect for lack of better explanation?
Edit:The way I interpret the increased input lag evidenced in the two examples, I'd think that it is a bit like this...
Input lag is the delay between the TV or Monitor receiving the signal and it being displayed on the screen or the delay between pressing a button and seeing a game react in relation to video games.
4K requires additional processing over 1080P and depending on the components of each TV, the input lag should vary. Any additional processing such as HDR should also increase the lag because more processing. Additional pass through devices between the source device and the TV or monitor should also increase the lag.
hm... aside from HDR, I would think there's less processing going on at native 4K since it's just displaying a 1:1 signal, no additional upscaling is being done by the display itself.
It could well be placebo, yeah, that's why I'd like to see more tests done. Most input lag readings are all done at 1080p. I think Leo Bodnar is releasing a device that will handle native 4K soon, so that will be interesting.
Sure it is, i'm just pointing out some examples where a native 4k source has been tested for input lag. I don't understand it myself, you'd think a native signal would have less lag, but maybe because of the amount of data a 4k signal is sending through it takes longer. These guys know their stuff so they know better than us.
I run my PC through a 65" Samsung KS8000. The input lag is 23ms from its specs and it feels great. It auto-recognizes PC as an input, and basically treats it as game mode plus you can still have full UHD and dynamic contrast effects. I highly recommend the TV to anyone for gaming.
Gaming in 4K on my couch with that TV has been an absolute game changer. My brother was in town over the weekend and I let him play Battlefield 1 beta in 4K for a couple hours and he was blown away.
Gaming in 4K on my couch with that TV has been an absolute game changer. My brother was in town over the weekend and I let him play Battlefield 1 beta in 4K for a couple hours and he was blown away.
bar mitzvah
Neo Member
Would you mind giving me a breakdown of your settings on the PC side? Are you running 4:4:4?
And you are actually playing games at 4K in game mode and it feels good?
Sources? Sure.
http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-...d-vs-1080p-full-hd-tvs-and-upscaling-compared
So that's another 30ms input lag on top of the 26.1ms that it has at 1080p. I would say 56.1ms is high.
Another source is what Darklor01 posted
The fact is, displaying a native 4k input means a higher input lag. There are two sources for you, do you have any that say the opposite?
This is annoying. We really need confirmation that the 22.6ms measurement on the KS8000 applies for a 4k HDR input, not just a 1080p HDR input. If it's really another 10-30ms more than that then this TV isn't going to be any good for PS4 Pro games that are using the checkerboard technique to output 4k.
edit - I posted a question on the RTINGS review asking for clarification on the input for that measurement and if it was 1080p HDR if they could provide a measurement for 4k HDR. The automated response said the estimated time for an answer was 10.4 days.