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[ShadowSoldier89]

Sony's security problem with PS3 was having a frigging usb dongle that puts the darned thing into debug mode. Apparently this was done for refurbishing PS3's at the factory of whatever the stupid reason. (Yeah, I can't accept the fact that they had a very convenient dongle for the job, they could have a debugger with a signed executable, for example, if they were hell bent on refurbishing units in that manner)

They are being too much cautious than probably what is necessary to keep the PS4 safe. I hope they provide OS native drivers that doesn't put PS4 into debug mode when I go ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA with my fight stick.

yea, its really sad thats the reason we cant use PS3 peripherals, there were many better ways of handling this than just locking out older peripherals

Its incredibly frustrating that this is the only thing stopping me from throwing another $400 at a second PS4 and getting a digital copy of Xrd to go with my LE

 

[trixx]

Ideally this should happen but I can totally understand why it may not.

 

[shoplifter]

Anyone with a first gen PS3 TE might look into trading it in at Amazon if you're in the US. They're paying $127 for like new (i.e., boxed and well taken care of) stick.

I ended up trading it in and buying a Hayabusa for $147. I'll take that kind of return on a six year old stick.

 

[Piccoro]

Subscribed.
Will tweet heavily when I get home.

 

[Connex]

Anyone with a first gen PS3 TE might look into trading it in at Amazon if you're in the US. They're paying $127 for like new (i.e., boxed and well taken care of) stick.

I ended up trading it in and buying a Hayabusa for $147. I'll take that kind of return on a six year old stick.

Nice! Thanks for the tip!

 

[Pompadour]

Anyone with a first gen PS3 TE might look into trading it in at Amazon if you're in the US. They're paying $127 for like new (i.e., boxed and well taken care of) stick.

I ended up trading it in and buying a Hayabusa for $147. I'll take that kind of return on a six year old stick.

I think the SSF4 TE S is going for 140+ if you have the box. Now that USF4 will be on PS4 I might just make the switch completely.

 

[serversurfer]

yea, its really sad thats the reason we cant use PS3 peripherals, there were many better ways of handling this than just locking out older peripherals

Its incredibly frustrating that this is the only thing stopping me from throwing another $400 at a second PS4 and getting a digital copy of Xrd to go with my LE

Except there is no hardware-level lockout, which is sorta the point of this thread.

 

[Neoxon]

Subscribed.
Will tweet heavily when I get home.

Every tweet helps.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Except there is no hardware-level lockout, which is sorta the point of this thread.

OS level, the effect is the same except that Sony can fix this easier, they just won't

 

[Irishmantis]

why no #PS3SticksForMKX

 

[Skilletor]

why no #PS3SticksForMKX

don't most people play that on a pad? I know I was frustrated trying to find a comfortable layout for that game.

 

[Xater]

why no #PS3SticksForMKX

People play MK with a stick? Who are these monsters?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

yea, its really sad thats the reason we cant use PS3 peripherals, there were many better ways of handling this than just locking out older peripherals

Its incredibly frustrating that this is the only thing stopping me from throwing another $400 at a second PS4 and getting a digital copy of Xrd to go with my LE

You can use old PS3 sticks on PS4, should the developer allow it. Just developers have no motivation to unlock that for players, especially when they're making sweetheart deals with arcade stick manufacturers.

The only way to get them to care is if they have more to lose by keeping it locked than they do by unlocking it. Ideally this campaign would show Capcom that's the case.

 

[Neoxon]

People play MK with a stick? Who are these monsters?

I'll add it once I know who to tweet. I think there's Ed Boon, but who else?

 

[Irishmantis]

People play MK with a stick? Who are these monsters?

lol i dont, but i know alot of people who do, including 2 of my friends.

i dont know how they do it with them awkward inputs but there is alot who do, but prolly not comparable to SFV though

 

[Ravidrath]

Oh, hey - I found this thread!

We tweeted to Ono in English and Japanese, but didn't get any response from him.

Still looking to attack this from the US side, but likely won't get anywhere until next year.

That's where the driver that Skullgirls Encore used comes in.

These Saturn pads don't actually work with the driver yet, but we're working on a fix.

 

[Irishmantis]

I'll add it once I know who to tweet. I think there's Ed Boon, but who else?

Tyler Lanstown is their lead Community Manager https://twitter.com/tylerlansdown

Edit: @Osu 16 bit
may know a better twiiter source

 

[jacobeid]

Oh, hey - I found this thread!

Keep fighting the good fight. <3

 

[Neoxon]

Tyler Lanstown is their lead Community Manager https://twitter.com/tylerlansdown

I'll get to that after the first wave of finals.

 

[Varth]

why no #PS3SticksForMKX

That's basically the motivation behind me pushing to Boone on Injustice. But since MKX is way too far (= no interest right now), I felt going for Injustice due to it coming to PS+ was worth a shot. After all, it ALREADY has a PS3 licensed stick.

 

[Ravidrath]

That's basically the motivation behind me pushing to Boone on Injustice. But since MKX is way too far (= no interest right now), I felt going for Injustice due to it coming to PS+ was worth a shot. After all, it ALREADY has a PS3 licensed stick.

We've confirmed that the official Injustice stick works, too, and reached out to them at PSX.

 

[Irishmantis]

We've confirmed that the official Injustice stick works, too, and reached out to them at PSX.

Boom, there's the evidence right here

I'll get to that after the first wave of finals.

Cheers thanks man ill let Testyourmight.com know when you do

plus my Friends be chuffed at the thought

 

[Karsticles]

Anyone with a first gen PS3 TE might look into trading it in at Amazon if you're in the US. They're paying $127 for like new (i.e., boxed and well taken care of) stick.

I ended up trading it in and buying a Hayabusa for $147. I'll take that kind of return on a six year old stick.

What about HRAP V3 SAs?

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

You can use old PS3 sticks on PS4, should the developer allow it. Just developers have no motivation to unlock that for players, especially when they're making sweetheart deals with arcade stick manufacturers.

The only way to get them to care is if they have more to lose by keeping it locked than they do by unlocking it. Ideally this campaign would show Capcom that's the case.

I really hope this campaign succeeds for you guys, Im just talking about OS level support as that helps all, and game only level support doesnt help my situation...(I need to be able to launch the game with the fightstick)

So, even though I will support this, I'm much more for hounding sony as its a better solution overall if they fix it

What about HRAP V3 SAs?

heh...A fluorescent light shattered on my HRAP3 SA...really left its market on the plastic. Still works fine though

 

[shoplifter]

this one?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002FL0T8U/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Neoxon]

#PS3SticksForMKX has been added.

 

[DMAmul]

#PS3SticksForMKX has been added.

+1

And what about GG Xrd? I want to buy the PS4 version but don't want to shell out money for a new stick :-/

 

[Neoxon]

+1

And what about GG Xrd? I want to buy the PS4 version but don't want to shell out money for a new stick :-/

#PS3SticksForGGXrd is already in the OP.

 

[DMAmul]

#PS3SticksForGGXrd is already in the OP.

well, I should probably read the OP then

 

[Neff]

There's really no reason for Sony and MS not to include compatibility with old controllers besides the obvious mandate of granting companies licenses to make and sell new peripherals. It's pretty pathetic really, albeit understandable.

 

[Sorcerer Supreme]

What about HRAP V3 SAs?

I'm seeing a $91.43 trade in value for that. I just locked in a trade in for $81.55 for my HRAP VX SA which is crazy because I only paid $100 for it when walmart was trying to get rid of them back in 2011. This is one of the few times where keeping the original box pays off. My HRAP VX SA was also long overdue for new buttons and stick but because I don't have a 360 anymore I never replaced them.

 

[ddikxela]

I've collected a couple of sticks over the years and I'll be keen to spread the word tonight after work. I'll need to check out some of the FGC sites here in NZ on the off chance they havent caught wind of this yet.

 

[Irishmantis]

#PS3SticksForMKX has been added.

Thank you


i'll inform the community

Edit: i dont how tweeting to 16bit could do to help, but he may forward them onto NRS, yeah actually that makes sense

 

[Ravidrath]

There's really no reason for Sony and MS not to include compatibility with old controllers besides the obvious mandate of granting companies licenses to make and sell new peripherals. It's pretty pathetic really, albeit understandable.

It's been said in here before, it's very much driven by security. USB is how the PS3 was initially cracked, and we all know what a world of hurt that started for them with the hacks, etc.

By implementing it on a per-game basis, though, it's sandboxed and can't touch the actual OS.

For example, with our driver you'll have to use the DS4 to access the Share and Home features, because there's no way for us to support those buttons on the old hardware.

 

[hesido]

It's been said in here before, it's very much driven by security. USB is how the PS3 was initially cracked, and we all know what a world of hurt that started for them with the hacks, etc.

By implementing it on a per-game basis, though, it's sandboxed and can't touch the actual OS.

For example, with our driver you'll have to use the DS4 to access the Share and Home features, because there's no way for us to support those buttons on the old hardware.

C'mon, there has to be a way to accept from a usb device to receive nothing but controller input signals. You'd have to be very shoddy at programming drivers of any sort for that to blow up in your hands (a massive memory leak etc..., but I highly doubt Sony is that incompetent to not implement a simple controller device driver) I should remind that Sony had an actual dongle of its own to turn any PS3 into a debug unit, and that got leaked and and only then hell broke loose.

 

[Ravidrath]

C'mon, there has to be a way to accept from a usb device to receive nothing but controller input signals. You'd have to be very shoddy at programming drivers of any sort for that to blow up in your hands (a massive memory leak etc..., but I highly doubt Sony is that incompetent to not implement a simple controller device driver) I should remind that Sony had an actual dongle of its own to turn any PS3 into a debug unit, and that got leaked and and only then hell broke loose.

I mean, I know this is GAF, but this sort of armchair technical criticism isn't particularly constructive unless you're an expert on the USB standard and driver coding. I'm not a tech guy, so I can't comment if this is specifically an overreaction or not.

But I also understand why they'd just want to close that avenue down for good - it cost them a lot of money to fix it last time, it was an intractable PR nightmare, hackers continually find new ways to break things, and investors don't actually understand this stuff so you have to make it easy for them. Everyone involved has a reason to be afraid of it, so why take any chances?

So as an emotional / business decision, rather than a technical one, I think it makes a lot of sense.

But regardless, it's done, so now we have to adapt to it.

 

[MarkMan]

Honest question, since I don't know this stuff: when you make a stick, is all of the support for the stick coded into all of the games it plays for?

Also, any updates on the GG Xrd PS4 sticks?

We purchase the IC/chipset from Sony and are licensed to use it in our products. So the brains of the product is actually from Sony. As such, it is made to comply with their guidelines.

In regards to GGXrd, please check our twitter - http://twitter.com/madcatz for all the updates.

 

[hesido]

I mean, I know this is GAF, but this sort of armchair technical criticism isn't particularly constructive unless you're an expert on the USB standard and driver coding. I'm not a tech guy, so I can't comment if this is specifically an overreaction or not.

I agree I'm being totally bound to my armchair on this one, however, we have some ground facts that can't be ignored:

• PS4 accepts any USB or Bluetooth Mouse&Keyboard.
  
• PS4 supports any standard USB mic.
  
• PS3 hack was mediated by the leaked USB Dongle that allowed execution of unsigned code (any exotic "hacking" device following it replicated that dongle's protocols) and not a controller.
  
• They let a PS4 game use a driver which was coded by an ND programmer in his spare time.

I fail to see how interpreting button signals from a keyboard / mouse is all that much different button signals on a controller but more technical and actual engineer / programmer here can enlighten us / me.

So security doesn't come off to me as the most viable explanation but rather Sony's desire to exclusively oversee the controller business. They just went with the consumer friendly route of accepting keyboards / mice / usb mics, but not with the controllers.

Maybe Capcom wants to sell some Capcom licensed sticks to the figting community. And Sony will only allow such devices for that exclusive game. This may be one of the several factors that might have aided the exclusivity deal.

 

[Ravidrath]

I agree I'm being totally bound to my armchair on this one, however, we have some ground facts that can't be ignored:

• PS4 accepts any USB or Bluetooth Mouse&Keyboard.
  
• PS4 supports any standard USB mic.
  
• PS3 hack was mediated by the leaked USB Dongle that allowed execution of unsigned code (any exotic "hacking" device following it replicated that dongle's protocols) and not a controller.
  
• They let a PS4 game use a driver which was coded by an ND programmer in his spare time.

I fail to see how interpreting button signals from a keyboard / mouse is all that much different button signals on a controller but more technical and actual engineer / programmer here can enlighten us / me.

All good points.

I think there's a testing case to be made for it, too - most devs probably want a clean break from old controllers for testing cost reduction purposes. And Sony doesn't want to be responsible for continuing to support them, either.

We're doing our own public stick testing before release (since I work on that PS4 game) and I'm pretty sure Sony is relying on us to handle all compatibility issues and manage those expectations.

 

[Neoxon]

All good points.

I think there's a testing case to be made for it, too - most devs probably want a clean break from old controllers for testing cost reduction purposes. And Sony doesn't want to be responsible for continuing to support them, either.

We're doing our own public stick testing before release (since I work on that PS4 game) and I'm pretty sure Sony is relying on us to handle all compatibility issues and manage those expectations.

Interesting, any specific date for the testing?

 

[Ribbon]

Anyone with a first gen PS3 TE might look into trading it in at Amazon if you're in the US. They're paying $127 for like new (i.e., boxed and well taken care of) stick.

I ended up trading it in and buying a Hayabusa for $147. I'll take that kind of return on a six year old stick.

Thanks for the tip. I just recently put silent parts in mine but maybe ill take em out and sell this old dog.

 

[Neoxon]

Thanks for the tip. I just recently put silent parts in mine but maybe ill take em out and sell this old dog.

That reminds me, my stick could use new buttons.

 

[Neoxon]

Thank you


i'll inform the community

Edit: i dont how tweeting to 16bit could do to help, but he may forward them onto NRS, yeah actually that makes sense

Glad I could help.

 

[Ravidrath]

Interesting, any specific date for the testing?

It's been ongoing for a few months now at our Salty Cupcakes events every other week.

We had it at PS Experience, too, but naturally not a lot of people there were lugging sticks around. Someone did bring a Hitbox, though, and that worked fine.

It's been a long time since we found anything it doesn't work with that we expected to work, though. So we think it's pretty much as good as it will get? But we'll keep testing until release.

 

[Neoxon]

It's been ongoing for a few months now at our Salty Cupcakes events every other week.

We had it at PS Experience, too, but naturally not a lot of people there were lugging sticks around. Someone did bring a Hitbox, though, and that worked fine.

It's been a long time since we found anything it doesn't work with that we expected to work, though. So we think it's pretty much as good as it will get? But we'll keep testing until release.

That's quite odd that someone brought their Hitbox to the PS Experience event. Did the person know you guys would be there or was it for Guilty Gear?

 

[Ravidrath]

That's quite odd that someone brought their Hitbox to the PS Experience event. Did the person know you guys would be there or was it for Guilty Gear?

He was one of two local SG superfans, I believe.

 

[Neoxon]

He was one of two local SG superfans, I believe.

I can definitely respect that. Hopefully I can pick up the PS4 version to support you guys.

 

[emb]

This would be great.

But more than individual games supporting old sticks, I'd love to see sticks start showing up that work with PS3/4 and Xbox 360/One. I want one for both Killer Instinct and the new Guilty Gear, but I also want it to act as a player two for my PS3 games and a few 360 fighters. I wish there were some sort of standard that could be adhered to. :\

 

[BigBadShamoo]

This is a very important thread.

 

[Neoxon]

This is a very important thread.

Hence why I'm trying to keep it alive.