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[Deified Data]

I'm okay with limited respawn so long as a skeleton crew of enemies remains. Maybe this'll be balanced by having larger enemies like the Berenike Knight in the Parish stay around for a while after you've killed them once instead of disappearing forever.

Or maybe even the enemy extinction is limited, or set to a timer? Maybe you can wipe them out for a while to give you some breathing room only to come back later?

 

[Baraka in the White House]

I'm okay with limited respawn so long as a skeleton crew of enemies remains. Maybe this'll be balanced by having larger enemies like the Berenike Knight in the Parish stay around for a while after you've killed them once instead of disappearing forever.

Or maybe even the enemy extinction is limited, or set to a timer? Maybe you can wipe them out for a while to give you some breathing room only to come back later?

Bah. The more it's discussed the more I wish they'd have just left respawning alone.

 

[E92 M3]

When Dark Souls was coming out and there was preview information out, what was the narrative like on GAF? In terms of the changes from Demon's.

 

[Orayn]

When Dark Souls was coming out and there was preview information out, what was the narrative like on GAF? In terms of the changes from Demon's.

Almost pure excitement, but honestly there wasn't that much detailed information on game mechanics available, and people weren't expecting it to be mostly unchanged from Demon's Souls. I get the feeling the atmosphere would be a little more welcoming to the sequel if people weren't soured by the initial interviews making it sound like the game would be casualized.

 

[Seance]

You're no longer invulnerable during special animations like backstabbing or opening doors and chest so it becomes harder to effectively use it as crowd control.

The gankers have won boys. RIP Dark Souls pvp: 2011-2014.

The non-infinitely respawning mobs sounds like a very tame form of casualisation. I'm unimpressed.

Fast travel from start makes me very skeptical that the level design will be as clever and satisfying as the original. Very concerned.

Respeccing had better have a severe cost to it. What an awful idea to implement into any video game. Fuck.

I'm sure that these area's will still be interconnected. I doubt you will be forced to warp, then again I don't really care if it makes sense. Warping to me sounds like warping into a world in Demon's Souls. Sure it wasn't a totally connected world but it was fine. It was annoying in Dark Souls when you had to backtrack and waste time.

You aren't forced to fast travel in Skyrim either, but as a result of the mechanic Bethesda added a whole bunch of shitty pointless sidequests of delivering mud crab meat to someone on the other side of the planet for 5 gold.

 

[Zeliard]

I think you'll find fans of the series are super-excited for this game, but that some of the changes are understandably causing a bit of pause since they're quite removed from how Dark Souls (and in a few cases Demon's) worked.

Martin Robinson @ Eurogamer who played the game at a recent preview event echoed some of those concerns, and questioned aloud how well it would ultimately all work in the full experience:

It's a measure of the perfect balance of design found in the original Dark Souls that every new feature in the sequel takes away much as it adds, and some of the shifts are more controversial than others.

Fast travel between bonfires adds convenience, but at the same time it doesn't insist on the same intimacy with the world that Dark Souls embraced so well.

Voice chat is now implemented, though it's opt-in, and the process of finding friends to fight alongside has been smoothed by a system whereby you can align yourself to certain gods within the game. Worship the same deity as your friends, and it's more likely that you'll be summoned side-by-side. A diminishing of the cold-faced distance traditionally kept between players in the Souls series, or a necessary concession to modern audiences? It's all a matter of perspective.

As are introductions such as the Soul Vessel, an item you can take to a certain location somewhere within the world to reset your parameters and re-spec your class. The dead ends of progression are no more, but is the electric sense of being in a world where wrong decisions are duly punished undermined?

The health system is rejigged once more, with Estus flasks now joined by life gems that are slow to replenish your lifebar but plentiful in supply. As you die again and again, becoming more and more hollow, your lifebar slims piece by piece, a process mirrored in the appearance of the player, their hair thinning further and their skin rotting more upon each new death. A muddling of Dark's stripped-back approach, or a return to the nuance of Demon's herbs? Right now there's no definite answer either way.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-02-05-is-this-dark-souls

 

[Just_myles]

All the impressions I ever needed were the ones from EpicNameBro, and on twitter he said he liked it more than Dark Souls 1.

This pretty much for me too. I have learned to trust epic and will probably be watching his lets plays too.

 

[E92 M3]

Almost pure excitement, but honestly there wasn't that much detailed information on game mechanics available, and people weren't expecting it to be mostly unchanged from Demon's Souls. I get the feeling the atmosphere would be a little more welcoming to the sequel if people weren't soured by the initial interviews making it sound like the game would be casualized.

Ah I see. Well I hope this game does live up to our expectations, because otherwise there will be a lot of sad individuals. The souls serious does have a very passionate following. In fact it's one of the only few games I know, where the community is super protective over its integrity and how it's played.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

You're barking up the wrong tree here. I'm someone who used the Master Key in my very first playthrough and has defended it repeatedly as the best way to go through the game even for newcomers, for the greater freedom of exploration and adventure it offers.

I put a huge emphasis on the exploratory value in these games, Dark Souls even more than Demon's with its open-world nature. Where my personal concern lies is in how fast travel may affect the overall world design; I intend to ignore the warping mechanic unless I'm certain I've been thorough in exploring, but I'm also looking at it as a game that many others will play.

It's cool that they're apparently doing the equivalent of giving everyone a Master Key and opening things up earlier, but it remains to be seen how much of that will be upended by the fast travelling option.

Some players will miss out on the exploration. That will be by choice, not obligation. Maybe they just don't care as much about it as you do and for them this is a plus.

If you want to explore, you can explore, there's no reason you can't anymore. You still have to get to the bonfires in the first place anyways.

 

[Romars202129]

I gotta say, I've been back and forth with worry and absolute faith on this title... but spawn limits really urk me.
I know I know, 15 times, you shouldn't ever see them. But personally, this bothers me quite a bit. Because, yes, like you I'm pretty sure I never needed that many tries to beat an area in the original. But on the flip, what if one section in this sequel does push me to that limit?
Don't forget, unlimited invasions, so it's not ridiculous to think.
I don't know about you, but I don't want to have to worry about the game switching to 'babby mode' because I made one two many errors. Because I know it doing that won't allievate the frustration, it's going to make me feel like a little child instead, honestly.

 

[Calibus]

Well, I finally bit the bullet and just pre-ordered Dark Souls 2 BA Edition directly from PSN on my PS3. Feels good, man.

 

[gholas]

I don't get why people are so upset about these spawn limits. In both dark and demons souls there were enemies who never respawned. So now there will be some enemies who respawn 15 times. As long as it's not most of the enemies, and it doesn't sound like it will be, I think people will realize its not that big of a deal.

 

[Dresden]

If it was just the BP enemies, I wouldn't mind.

 

[params7]

Not too happy about that fast travel system, but I trust From knows what they are doing here.

 

[fade_]

I don't get why people are so upset about these spawn limits. In both dark and demons souls there were enemies who never respawned. So now there will be some enemies who respawn 15 times. As long as it's not most of the enemies, and it doesn't sound like it will be, I think people will realize its not that big of a deal.

People are protective of their addictions. I'm not going to judge until I play it. I was lucky enough to be able to try the network test and it felt pretty much like a dark souls/demon souls game so I'm still hyped for this game.

 

[Hypron]

I don't get why people are so upset about these spawn limits. In both dark and demons souls there were enemies who never respawned. So now there will be some enemies who respawn 15 times. As long as it's not most of the enemies, and it doesn't sound like it will be, I think people will realize its not that big of a deal.

Yeah. And I mean, how often do you kill an enemy more than 15 times in a single playthrough? I played dark souls for like 250 hours and that happened exactly twice: when I needed to get a Channeler's trident for one of the achievements (which I got twice). In general I kill enemies nowhere near that. Maybe 5 times max per playthrough. Even when I farm chunks at the Kiln of the First Flame I don't do it that many times.

 

[Feindflug]

Yeah. And I mean, how often do you kill an enemy more than 15 times in a single playthrough? I played dark souls for like 250 hours and that happened exactly twice: when I needed to get a Channeler's trident for one of the achievements (which I got twice). In general I kill enemies nowhere near that. Maybe 5 times max per playthrough. Even when I farm chunks at the Kiln of the First Flame I don't do it that many times.

Maybe it's me but the fact that this thread is already 11 pages and there are so many different opinions and speculations about the intentions of the changes in the game (like the despawn of the enemies) even though we don't know exactly how they are implemented it makes me want to play the game even more.

 

[Creamium]

Have to say, after having played it... The wait is proving harder than ever. You explore the different paths, get curious about where they lead and then you have to drop the controller and wait another month. I really wanted to continue playing

btw I just remembered something I forgot to mention in my impressions, but it's a bit spoilery:

Spoiler

Mild-mannered Pate, the npc who gives you the white soapstone, can also be summoned later. He really seems to be the new Solaire. Tak summoned him outside a boss door. The boss itself was the 'Last Giant', boss of the Forest of the Giants obviously. This is the boss seen in the last trailer, the giant with all the spears/swords sticking out of it, with the giant mouth. This fight is very similar to the Tower Knight/Iron Golem in that you attack its legs. We didn't see how it worked out because Tak was killed soon enough. tbh it was a bit anticlimatic to see another 'attack the legs' boss... This could very well be the first real boss you fight in the game.

 

[YeSp]

Well I'm in Europe, and the game comes out on 03.14...which means it gets at my door AT LEAST on the 18th. A Tuesday.
US Digital comes out on 03.11, a Tuesday, which means I get to play the game one week earlier.

I planned on double-dipping only, but my craving for the next Dark Souls pushed me into triple-dipping :'D

Is it possible to play the game on your EU account if you bought it on the US PSN store?
I have a US account but would like to play it on my EU account (friends and trophies)

 

[Zeliard]

Yeah. And I mean, how often do you kill an enemy more than 15 times in a single playthrough? I played dark souls for like 250 hours and that happened exactly twice: when I needed to get a Channeler's trident for one of the achievements (which I got twice). In general I kill enemies nowhere near that. Maybe 5 times max per playthrough. Even when I farm chunks at the Kiln of the First Flame I don't do it that many times.

Well, when farming it's quite easily possible to kill enemies more than 15 times, especially if farming earlier on (Balder Knights for their sword or shield, rats for humanity, slimes for shards, Darkwraiths for chunks and slabs, etc). It's going to mostly depend on which enemies are affected by the respawn limit.

We have examples in Dark Souls of enemies which never respawned at all once killed (Boars, early Channelers, pre-Kiln Black Knights), and it seems like they're taking that concept much further this time around because they want all players - both farmers and those struggling with an area - to keep pressing forward.

And I wouldn't doubt there are probably many players who continuously die in the same area. With the knowledge that the game will eventually offer slack by removing enemies, those players may be more likely to stick with it, or it may attract players who didn't previously want to give the series a shot.

I don't mind this development. On some Souls playthroughs I farmed, on others I didn't. In the case of limiting farming it strikes me that this (along with other changes like stat-dependent armor) will make the game more of a skill-based one, where you can't so easily gather monster equipment, souls, and consumables earlier in the game to rip through everything with. And it should help out early PvP as well.

And as far as helping struggling players along, it could prove quite effective, though it's a double-edged sword. You may have a safer path to the next boss or section but you've also depleted the resources in that area. I think where it gets tricky is with those players who die a lot in the same area but don't particularly have a problem with that, and want to persevere instead of being given a break. In those cases this may be a non-ideal solution.

 

[soontroll]

The only issue I have with the farming reason is that there is a much better way of doing it. Just reduce the number of souls you gain if you kill an enemy too many times. Killed that knight 15 times? Reduce loot drop and souls gained for that enemy. Problem solved.

That's why I don't think it was put in place to prevent farming.

 

[InternHertz]

Is it possible to play the game on your EU account if you bought it on the US PSN store?
I have a US account but would like to play it on my EU account (friends and trophies)

Yup, absolutely no problem.
Like I said, the only thing you'll have to worry about is DLC, you can't buy EUR DLC for the US version. However, as with the main game, you can play the US DLC on your EUR account too.

 

[Jintor]

The only issue I have with the farming reason is that there is a much better way of doing it. Just reduce the number of souls you gain if you kill an enemy too many times. Killed that knight 15 times? Reduce loot drop and souls gained for that enemy. Problem solved.

That's why I don't think it was put in place to prevent farming.

but then you get the obstacle with no potential reward. might as well just do away with the guys entirely at that point

 

[fluffydelusions]

Not sure who made this but saw on reddit titled "invasion in a nutshell"

 

[YeSp]

Yup, absolutely no problem.
Like I said, the only thing you'll have to worry about is DLC, you can't buy EUR DLC for the US version. However, as with the main game, you can play the US DLC on your EUR account too.

Good to know Thx!...pre-ordering now

 

[H_Prestige]

Not sure who made this but saw on reddit titled "invasion in a nutshell"

LOL at Tarkus smoking

 

[sublimit]

Not sure who made this but saw on reddit titled "invasion in a nutshell"

Holy shit that's awesome!How he did that??

 

[soontroll]

but then you get the obstacle with no potential reward. might as well just do away with the guys entirely at that point

But the point is to reduce farming - no potential reward is exactly what they're going for. This way it gives no reward after the 15th kill while still making you actually play the game instead of removing the enemies and giving you a free pass through to the next area.

 

[tassletine]

Well, there's apparently an item that causes those enemies to return, so it seems to mostly be a concession to players who get frustrated and give up after dying dozens of times to the same set of enemies.

Whether or not they intend to minimize the ability to farm depends on how easy or not it is to get that supposed respawning item. Farming isn't the only way the same enemies are going to die 15+ times, after all; they're effectively going to die that many times if the player is also dying that many times and has to keep going through them.



It's roughly the same end result, though. There are enemies you're going to kill pretty much every time along a certain path till you reach the point where you get stuck, so it seems like it'll allow a player to brute-force their way to the next area or at least the boss through less repetition than it would otherwise need.

It seems like the respawning limit will only affect certain enemies as well, and presumably that will be the tougher ones along a path since those will be both a) the ones who give out more souls/better items and as such are superior for farming, and b) the ones players are more likely to die to.

I can't think of many areas in DS where you couldn't just run to the boss with a bit of practice so this seems redundant. However, the parts of the game, where I was forced to do that, were easily the worst parts for me. I loathe long areas of nothing happening in any game, it just seems pointless. I hope there are other gameplay mechanics in this to counter it though.

 

[Facism]

LOL at Tarkus smoking

who's the guy at the back on the far right after the ball gets swatted?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Looks like Smough, lol nvm you said right not left

 

[Steez]

who's the guy at the back on the far right after the ball gets swatted?

lmao, is that Yurt from Demon's Souls?

edit: Nah, it's Artorias.

 

[Senor Whopper]

who's the guy at the back on the far right after the ball gets swatted?

artorias i think, he has the small angular helmet

 

[Polioliolio]

I think you'll find fans of the series are super-excited for this game, but that some of the changes are understandably causing a bit of pause since they're quite removed from how Dark Souls (and in a few cases Demon's) worked.

Martin Robinson @ Eurogamer who played the game at a recent preview event echoed some of those concerns, and questioned aloud how well it would ultimately all work in the full experience:


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-02-05-is-this-dark-souls

Well poop, these are things I've been worried about,,

 

[Zeliard]

The only issue I have with the farming reason is that there is a much better way of doing it. Just reduce the number of souls you gain if you kill an enemy too many times. Killed that knight 15 times? Reduce loot drop and souls gained for that enemy. Problem solved.

That's why I don't think it was put in place to prevent farming.

I don't think it's just to reduce farming. I think the idea is to keep every player moving forward in general. Reducing soul and item drops on enemies on subsequent kills may limit farming, but it still keeps the enemies there for players who find them an obstacle and aren't progressing forward.

This way they can basically kill two birds with one stone.

This is from the Gamespot preview:

"As I experience some difficulty getting past this stone man, I'm told that certain enemies will only respawn near each bonfire a certain number of times, which the PR rep estimates to be about 15. However, you'll need to actually kill them rather than simply respawn at the bonfire for this counter to increase. The developers made this change to stop you from grinding; with no enemies to gather souls from to then spend on levelling up, you are eventually forced to venture into dangerous, unknown territory."

If this change is made primarily to combat farming and soul-grinding, it looks like it'll also have the additional effect of making the path to the boss easier through attrition, and I can't imagine that wasn't intentional either.

There are two significant unknowns as it relates to this: 1) which actual enemies will be affected by the respawn limit (it could be far fewer than we suspect), and 2) how common or not the item is that respawns every "extinct" enemy

I can't think of many areas in DS where you couldn't just run to the boss with a bit of practice so this seems redundant. However, the parts of the game, where I was forced to do that, were easily the worst parts for me. I loathe long areas of nothing happening in any game, it just seems pointless. I hope there are other gameplay mechanics in this to counter it though.

Areas in Demon's and Dark Souls are quite short from start to boss, but deceptively so, and it's something you only tend to really notice once you know the way. For the player who doesn't know exactly where the boss lies, who isn't familiar with the general area, who's getting beat up all the time by the enemies along the way, it probably seems like levels are huge and intimidating.

 

[sublimit]

I'd be lying if i said i didn't have many doubts and fears about the new gameplay additions and changes but it's hard to judge them properly until i actually play the game since their implications are probably much more deeper and complex.
I think the only thing we can judge for now is the art direction (character,level designs,animations) and for me these look like hit or miss so far.Some of the art looks unique and interesting in the same style of previous Souls games but some looks very generic and like stuff you see in countless other games.And like i have said in another thread the walking/running animation (sliding feet) looks really really bad.

I'm still getting the game on day one but my fears and doubts made me switch from the collector's edition to the standard one (also because i really don't like the armor design of the "main" character who is depicted on the action figure).

 

[Gr1mLock]

I dont mind the limited respawn to prevent grinding but i thought DS handled it reasonably well. If you want to grind for 6 hours for 2 extra points of dexterity i see nothing wrong with that.

 

[jimi_dini]

Not sure who made this but saw on reddit titled "invasion in a nutshell"

I see bishoptl put into this gif

 

[Calibus]

Not sure who made this but saw on reddit titled "invasion in a nutshell"

One of the greatest .gifs ever -- just noticed Smough peeking through the door lol.

 

[Deified Data]

I don't get why people are so upset about these spawn limits. In both dark and demons souls there were enemies who never respawned. So now there will be some enemies who respawn 15 times. As long as it's not most of the enemies, and it doesn't sound like it will be, I think people will realize its not that big of a deal.

See, this I'm okay with. But where did you read that it was only some enemies? I was thinking it was most or all enemies, which would leave the world pretty barren. If they're only talking about larger, powerful enemies I'm okay with it.

I dont mind the limited respawn to prevent grinding but i thought DS handled it reasonably well. If you want to grind for 6 hours for 2 extra points of dexterity i see nothing wrong with that.

This is my thinking as well. I can't imagine they put the system in place to deter grinding, as that particular method has never been hugely effective anyway.

 

[snesfanboy]

i'm currently on my first playthrough of Dark Souls (had bought the game day 1, let it rest for a lot of time since i didn't progress, have recently continued) and have just managed to open up Blighttown

i'm feeling that i'm barely managing at times so there are game sessions when i spend an hour just collecting souls to upgrade my character

if they limit respawning enemies, does that mean that bosses/unique enemies are handled differently too?

 

[Visceir]

See, this I'm okay with. But where did you read that it was only some enemies? I was thinking it was most or all enemies, which would leave the world pretty barren. If they're only talking about larger, powerful enemies I'm okay with it.

I remember seeing some DS2 beta footage where the bigger enemies stopped spawning after the third time or so while the smaller weaker ones stuck around.

 

[soontroll]

I remember seeing some DS2 beta footage where the bigger enemies stopped spawning after the third time or so while the smaller weaker ones stuck around.

I'm pretty sure that didn't happen in the beta, especially not after the third time.

 

[mannerbot]

I dont mind the limited respawn to prevent grinding but i thought DS handled it reasonably well. If you want to grind for 6 hours for 2 extra points of dexterity i see nothing wrong with that.

Phalanx farming in Dark Souls was like 48k souls per 3 minutes just on NG, much more on NG+x.

 

[Forceatowulf]

Not sure who made this but saw on reddit titled "invasion in a nutshell"

This gif is amazing.

 

[Yoshichan]

How was that gif made?

 

[Sub_Level]

Just picked up a used 360 slim for this game and Titanfall off of craigslist. Downloading Ninja Gaiden Black now.

Say what you will about the advertisements, lack of first party support, and hardware problems for those first few years...the 360 is not too shabby. Still happy I went PS3, though, if only for Wipeout and Valkyria Chronicles.

 

[PolishQ]

How was that gif made?

Just a guess based on the MANNCO poster, but probably Valve Source Filmmaker.

 

[robotrock]

Just picked up a used 360 slim for this game and Titanfall off of craigslist. Downloading Ninja Gaiden Black now.

Say what you will about the advertisements, lack of first party support, and hardware problems for those first few years...the 360 is not too shabby. Still happy I went PS3, though, if only for Wipeout and Valkyria Chronicles.

Holy shit dude, I had no idea Ninja Gaiden Black was on Games on Demand. Thanks man!

 

[mannerbot]

How was that gif made?

http://www.reddit.com/r/darksouls/comments/1x8axv/black_eye_orb_in_a_nutshell/cf9198v