Angelus Errare
Banned
lmao.
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Next-gen consoles have reached CGI rendering in real time ?
- Thread starter Toxa
- Start date
lmao.
theofficefan99
Junior Member
Go watch Onimusha 3's opening and come back to me.
Hockeymac18
Member
In some respects, it's getting close. I think the big challenge is maintaining that quality over the course of a whole game. Across gigantic levels. This is ridiculously hard to do, not just technologically, but also from a development perspective (takes a Ton of work from hundreds of artists/programmers; or really clever algorithms to automate/procedurally generate it).
CGI, or prerendered graphics that are rendered on some other machine than the one you're using, has the advantage that it is not a game. They can define what you see (and what you don't). they don't have to render what isn't on the screen at the time. There aren't physics calculations to run, or AI to run, based on your input. I think it'll be possible to see games that get close to reaching CG levels of quality, but it'll still be a monumental challenge to maintain that level throughout an entire game because of the design, technical and artistic challenges that this would require.
Also, I'm talking about gameplay. If we're talking about "in-engine" cut scenes, I think we'll get pretty close to movie-level quality CGI this generation. It's a lot easier to get that level of quality in an in-engine cut scene than it is during gameplay. Just look at Alan Wake, or Uncharted games, or TLOU...or frankly, any game with predefined cut scenes.
Although I do think we're going to start seeing a lot of "seamless" cut scenes. Where cinematic scenes flow seamlessly into the game. Like what Ryse does in some cases. That stuff was really impressive, especially the first time I saw it.
CGI, or prerendered graphics that are rendered on some other machine than the one you're using, has the advantage that it is not a game. They can define what you see (and what you don't). they don't have to render what isn't on the screen at the time. There aren't physics calculations to run, or AI to run, based on your input. I think it'll be possible to see games that get close to reaching CG levels of quality, but it'll still be a monumental challenge to maintain that level throughout an entire game because of the design, technical and artistic challenges that this would require.
Also, I'm talking about gameplay. If we're talking about "in-engine" cut scenes, I think we'll get pretty close to movie-level quality CGI this generation. It's a lot easier to get that level of quality in an in-engine cut scene than it is during gameplay. Just look at Alan Wake, or Uncharted games, or TLOU...or frankly, any game with predefined cut scenes.
Although I do think we're going to start seeing a lot of "seamless" cut scenes. Where cinematic scenes flow seamlessly into the game. Like what Ryse does in some cases. That stuff was really impressive, especially the first time I saw it.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I think CGi is to high regarded, Real Time is never gonna match the perfect frames of CGi
And CG films tend to not to go realistic looking, Tron legacy is the only film to cast CGI actor along side real actors including the it based off and that shows we don't need to compare todays graphics with 14 year old CG
Its comparable to todays.
And CG films tend to not to go realistic looking, Tron legacy is the only film to cast CGI actor along side real actors including the it based off and that shows we don't need to compare todays graphics with 14 year old CG
Its comparable to todays.
Obviously a relatively cheap console is not going to compete 'technically' with server farms, but we are surely matching the 'appearance' of CGI.
So if the question is, have we reaching a similar 'appearance' to that of CGI in realtime, then the answer is obviously 'yes'. If you want to get mired in the technical details, then the answer is obviously 'no'. And before you say, "Well, obviously!", I would just respond that up to this point I don't believe we've been able to match even the 'appearance' of CGI. So in that sense, I think we've reached a very significant milestone indeed!
So going forward, I think the term 'diminishing returns' is appropriate when speaking of CGI, particularly for games.
Amazing times! Try to imagine where we'll be by the end of this generation.
P.S. I'm going to be dodging shoes/fruit/pie for saying this, but I wonder what ND could do with the PS4 at 30hz! /ducks
So if the question is, have we reaching a similar 'appearance' to that of CGI in realtime, then the answer is obviously 'yes'. If you want to get mired in the technical details, then the answer is obviously 'no'. And before you say, "Well, obviously!", I would just respond that up to this point I don't believe we've been able to match even the 'appearance' of CGI. So in that sense, I think we've reached a very significant milestone indeed!
So going forward, I think the term 'diminishing returns' is appropriate when speaking of CGI, particularly for games.
Amazing times! Try to imagine where we'll be by the end of this generation.
P.S. I'm going to be dodging shoes/fruit/pie for saying this, but I wonder what ND could do with the PS4 at 30hz! /ducks
CassidyIzABeast
Member
I think CGi is to high regarded, Real Time is never gonna match the perfect frames of CGi
And CG films tend to not to go realistic looking, Tron legacy is the only film to cast CGI actor along side real actors including the it based off and that shows we don't need to compare todays graphics with 14 year old CG
Its comparable to todays.
The major difference being that CLU looks like a real man and Drake looks like cg.
OsirisBlack
Banned
There technically aren't any cut scenes in the Order.
One is really well done CG (although I felt a lot of uncanny valley with that model). Drake looks like a gameplay model with nice textures and good AA. Watch it at 1080p full screen. Our gifs always make things look better. Those look like textures these consoles can easily handle at full res and full screen. Especially his shirt.
Well "technically" both games use in-game assets either way. It's why they can seamlessly go from gameplay to "cut-scene" if they want.
Never forget.
"Real time in game engine"
What we actually got.
It amazes me how quickly gamers forget.
Watchdogs.gif
...Di....Did you just compare EA to ND? .......
brickarts295
Member
Wait till we get to the end of this generation, that is going to be insane. Especially when the next GTA releases in 4-5 years.
I can pull out the naughty dog uncharted 2 trailer v actual in-game cutscenes garbage too.
Or I can pull out more Ubisoft
Or Rockstar with GTA V.
Your choice.
This is the same nonsense as the "team cgi" v "team real"
Gamers on the internet can't tell the difference between actual cgi and someone wearing a mask, let alone predict what a game still in development will looks like in 6 months.
sickvisionz
Banned
So we're talking bad old CG. Yeah, new games beat that. Not saying much though.
Then why didn't you? Would have been more appropriate. Your particular example seems quite disingenuous indeed.... I wonder.....
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
I would still rather have Reboot
Because it was....... at the beginning of...... a generation of systems......... The same ......... as we are currently..........now.........
I was simply suggesting that comparing ND to ND would be more appropriate. Not saying that you're wrong necessarily.
LittleJohnny
Banned
What about Capcom? can we compare them to ND? and Guerrilla Games? As much as I want to believe them, I have a feeling it will end up like Deep Down or Killzone 2.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Absolutely not true. A lot of modern CG shots have immense simulation calculations for things like hair, particles (i.e. fire, smoke), water, even animation related things for skin and muscle in some cases. Improving flesh simulation was one of my department's projects for the Hulk and Avengers for example. There was even work focused on stuff like eyelids, to make sure the pupil was properly moving against the lid if it was closed. Yeah, you may never see the effect of something that small in a given shot, especially if it was far away and not a close-up, but that's the insane level of detail places like ILM dive into.
Simulation is one of the main reasons render times are still so friggin long today.
I was posting in the thread about the Uncharted 4 trailer being in-engine and got my threads mixed up. My bad. You too zychi /bow
CassidyIzABeast
Member
CLU looks pretty rough in some of the later scenes in that movie but there are one or two scenes where they nailed the look.
He looked really good there.
Drake has that Zemickis tier cg look to him with better facial animation
ComputerMKII
Banned
What happened to this Xbox demo?
Drake is actually better animated.
qa_engineer
Member
The lead fx guy and the engine programmer (Corinne Yu) at ND confirmed via twitter on multiple occasions. Multiple people weren't happy with how they responded so they responded yet again. We still have people that doubt it even though it came straight from the developers.
EDIT:
We have multiple sources for this, so it seemed to warrant a dedicated thread.
Source 1:
http://gamingbolt.com/uncharted-4s-trailer-was-a-part-of-an-actual-level-in-the-game-was-all-in-engine
Source 2:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1854335&postcount=265
This post has been corroborated by a dev at Ubisoft, Montreal (Thanks, Shinobi):
Source3:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-watch-uncharted-4-and-the-last-of-us-at-60-fps
Source 4:
Source 5:
http://www.naughtydog.com/site/post/uncharted_4_a_thiefs_end_2014_e3_trailer/
HQ Trailer
COLOR CORRECTED VERSION:
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
You watched Toy Story 1 lately? It looks atrocious. Most high end games from LAST generation. Look better.
Dictator93
Member
No.
Not at all.
Not at all.
Delta Assault
Member
The simulations in movies make the ones in games look pathetic. Also are you still at ILM Xia?
CassidyIzABeast
Member
So if you had no idea Legacy was a movie your first reaction to that screencap would be to call it cg?
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
I still can't believe this is not CGI.
Well, Naughty Dog has Sony sponsoring them. It's not like every developer can efficiently create this kind of graphics. A lot of developers have suffered from the increase in fidelity since PS3/XBOX360/WIii. I don't think it's reasonable to believe games like this will be remotely common, not without some major innovations in techniques and tools.
Delta Assault
Member
So if you had no idea Legacy was a movie your first reaction to that screencap would be to call it cg?
I don't judge quality of cg by just screen caps. I judge them by seeing them in motion, in the medium they're being used in. CLU looked like a fake crap of crap in Tron Legacy. Which might've been okay if everybody else in the Tron world looked fake as well, but they didn't.
XtremeXpider
Member
Why some people are thinking that Xbox One can't do something like Uncharted PS4? Is this because console war I guess, because both console have similar hardware.
I can't wait to laugh at all the people denying that uncharted footage was real time.
Infinite Xero
Member
Next gen consoles? No, but PS4 maybe.
supernormal
Member
It depends on what characteristic specifically. Because for example we've had better texture resolution, and more detail than a lot of old CGI probably since last gen. Compare RE5 Chris Redfield to the CGI of RE2. But for example we haven't had breakthroughs in things like accurate Ray Traced lighting ( which provides accurate shadows, reflections, etc.) compared to old CGI. Volumetric particles are still not common, and neither is full flush interactive hair or cloth. Of course IQ in CGI always trumps real-time as well.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Maybe video game trailer CGI from some years ago (minus IQ, and less complex lighting, hair, particles, and any simulations), but not Hollywood CGI made to mix with real actors.
Hockeymac18
Member
I meant as it relates to gameplay user input. For pre-rendered footage, the simulation physics are calculated once and run through. In a game, the on-the-fly rendering takes into account user input, which changes the simulation. I thought this point was implied, but I apologize if it was not clear.
Manmademan
Member
1.) A lot of the discussion here is revolving around the impression that Uncharted PS4 is way, way past what anyone thought the PS4 hardware would be capable of. Even with everyone under the sun saying this is not pre-rendered, "team cgi" keeps making excuses because it's THAT good. Nothing we know of about the PS4 up to this point says it should be putting out visuals this good, this early.
2.) The hardware isn't all that similar. They're both X86, but the PS4 is a good 50% more powerful than the Xbox is. Microsoft also doesn't really have any internal teams on the level of Naughty Dog or that ICE team that was doing ridiculous things with the PS3 hardware.
There is virtually no chance we see anything this good out of the xbox one anytime soon.
What are you talking about?
Don't waste your time, GTA V has been out for months now, everybody knows what the game looks like.
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