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[Elaugaufein]

I'd actually be surprised if a collection of screen shots from games (as long as their weren't to many from anyone game) for the purpose of historical commentary is actually fair use. But it wouldn't be worth it to fight this in court.

 

[Tempy]

Isn't there another book with the same premise of "all NES games review and screen shots" to visually identify them?

Not sure what it's called, I'll look it up.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/560468638/nintendo-nes-library-guide-and-review-book-of-750

Terribly formatted though.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Huh. Thought they had a go ahead for this.

 

[Menitta]

The part about using screenshots is silly. Like posting screenshots is a copyrights violation?

The use of a similar "seal of quality" is sketchy though, I'll give Nintendo that.


Not to start a decade-old console war but... The more-or-less equivalent Kickstarter for a Genesis/Megadrive book wasn't shut down by Sega. Either they got their copyright stuff sorted out properly* and these guys didn't, or... Sega does what Nintendon't? (Or Sega doesn't what Nintendoes, I should say... xD)

Edit: I just re-read part of the Genesis KS campaign pitch and they mentioned they were "working closely with Sega" on it and Sega even provided assets. I guess this NES book wasn't like that at all, then?

The thing is Nintendo has a huge history of shutting down fan projects, no matter what they are. This comes as no surprise.

 

[starpiercer]

Has any one got any puns? All I have is these ones:

I guess Nintendo booked Bitmap a date with the judge.
Bitmap should've read through the lines.
Book em, boys!

 

[ReyVGM]

Wasn't there a piece of news recently about someone impersonating a Nintendo rep and sending out take down notices for stuff like these?

 

[Calm Mind]

Nintendo is going to totally take all their work and create one of their own. I can see the salt from here.

 

[jett]

Super Famicom book used covers (marketing material) instead of screenshots and the commentary was more substantial, so here're two differences.

The other books didn't deal with Nintendo, so there's that.

I have a feeling a few more lines of text wouldn't have mattered to Nintendo. I guess they could release it on their own without Kickstarter. I wonder if Nintendo would bother taking any action in that case.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/560468638/nintendo-nes-library-guide-and-review-book-of-750

Terribly formatted though.

Man that is really ugly compared to the Bitmap Books one.

edit: It does have more text though... Huh.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

There are ways to get a project this done. Completely bypassing Nintendo and setting up a Kickstarter isn't one of them.

 

[Moor-Angol]

Not to start a decade-old console war but... The more-or-less equivalent Kickstarter for a Genesis/Megadrive book wasn't shut down by Sega.



Edit: I just re-read part of the Genesis KS campaign pitch and they mentioned they were "working closely with Sega" on it and Sega even provided assets. I guess this NES book wasn't like that at all, then?

#segadoeswhatnintendont

 

[Mr-Joker]

The part about using screenshots is silly. Like posting screenshots is a copyrights violation?

If I take a picture of my Spider-Man comic and try to sell it I am going to get shut down by Marvel and Disney as I don't own the image.

This is the same Nintendo owns the image of their games and they have every right to shut it down, especially when it looks like one of their products when it isn't.

 

[stump sock]

Kickstarter doesn't charge until the end of the campaign (if the campaign was successful, obviously).

from what I understand, the takedown happened (barely) before the end of the campaign.

 

[Glowsquid]

Wasn't there a piece of news recently about someone impersonating a Nintendo rep and sending out take down notices for stuff like these?

Yes. This one's legit though. Miller Nash is the law firm Nintendo employs.

 

[Yukinari]

Does the book talking about the game design of Wario Land 4 have any screenshots or artwork from the game itself? I never read it but im curious.

 

[valkillmore]

100% Expected

 

[SilverLunar]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/560468638/nintendo-nes-library-guide-and-review-book-of-750

Terribly formatted though.

Yes! This is the one. Ty.

 

[Zonic]

Glad they waited until the FINAL day of the kickstarter instead of....ya know, close to when it started or got funded.

This is the FOURTH visual compendium book they took to Kickstarter (ZX Spectrum, Amiga, & Commodore), not to mention they have that Super Famicom Box Art Collection book (though that was taken down by Kickstarter, but they found a publisher). A shame this happened, especially when it was so close to being funded (it almost had 24 hours left when this happened).

Not to mention those Hardcore Gaming 101 books, only Konami went after them & all it resulted in was putting "unofficial & unauthorized" on the cover, so maybe something among those lines will happen here.

 

[dallow_bg]

Glad they waited until the FINAL day of the kickstarter instead of....ya know, close to when it started or got funded.

Maybe they did and the process took a while.

 

[Galang]

Honestly I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. Sucks, but Nintendo isn't in the wrong here clearly

 

[Stiler]

If I take a picture of my Spider-Man comic and try to sell it I am going to get shut down by Marvel and Disney as I don't own the image.

This is the same Nintendo owns the image of their games and they have every right to shut it down, especially when it looks like one of their products when it isn't.

If you take a single panel from a comic book and throw a bunch of comic art in a book showcasing the history of comic books and the evolution of the art over the years it should be fair use.

This is how it's worked in most history/educational/reviews/etc for a long time, using a snippit of a movie (IE A still image of part of a movie) or using a small excerpt from a bigger work is covered under fair use.

 

[Commo]

This reminds me, was that Mother/EarthBound OST on vinyl Kockstarter ever confirmed to be official?


EDIT: I think this was it-

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...riginal-arranged-soundtrack-album/description

 

[SinCityAssassin]

If you take a single panel from a comic book and throw a bunch of comic art in a book showcasing the history of comic books and the evolution of the art over the years it should be fair use.

One would assume the textual context of the book were not enough to separate it from "book of high-quality screenshots"

 

[thelatestmodel]

Cruel, but expected. A real shame.

The other ones were great. Just let it happen, let your work be appreciated. If you're not going to do your own, then you've deprived the world of something good and worthwhile.

 

[Zonic]

Maybe they did and the process took a while.

It took 2 days for the Super Famicom Box Art Collection book to be taken down from Kickstarter for similar copyright reasons. I feel like this would've happened during its first week, not a month later.

 

[7DollarHagane]

Idk these lazy books where they just get a bunch of emulator screenshots and blow them up on nice paper and write a paragraph are super dumb anyway and probably are on the outside of fair use unfortunately.

Doesn't seem like anything of value was lost.

 

[Lothars]

Wow what a shitty thing from Nintendo to do, I can't say I am surprised with how bad Nintendo continually drops the ball lately but I am really dissapointed and was really looking forward to this book especially after seeing the previous books they have done.

Hopefully it gets figured out and the book can still happen, I think it's really sad that people are defending Nintendo on this.

Idk these lazy books where they just get a bunch of emulator screenshots and blow them up on nice paper and write a paragraph are super dumb anyway and probably are on the outside of fair use unfortunately.

Doesn't seem like anything of value was lost.

Considering how high quality the previous books they have done for commodore and amiga, It is definitely a loss.

 

[autoduelist]

Pretty much, don't ever use copyrighted material without permission, that's plagiarism

First off, it's not plagiarism. Second, there are plenty of situations in which you can use copyrighted material without permission. Most parody and criticism falls under fair use -- otherwise, it would be impossible to criticize certain media since no publisher would allow you to mention / quote / sample it.

That said, this book seems to take it way, way too far.

I'd actually be surprised if a collection of screen shots from games (as long as their weren't to many from anyone game) for the purpose of historical commentary is actually fair use. But it wouldn't be worth it to fight this in court.

It's a hard call here? I mean, I'd side against it, but in theory it could have been fair use. But they'd have been better off with small screenshots and a significant amount of their own text, verses what they made, which could almost be called a 'nintendo art book' that nintendo itself might put out. That's where they cross the line, making the artwork the book, rather than their text the book.

If I take a picture of my Spider-Man comic and try to sell it I am going to get shut down by Marvel and Disney as I don't own the image.

This is the same Nintendo owns the image of their games and they have every right to shut it down, especially when it looks like one of their products when it isn't.

If you use a pictures of all of your comic books and write an essay criticizing each, then include the small cover art next to each, they'd have a hard time stopping you since it's fair use.

You certainly can't just make high quality prints of each cover and sell them, of course, which is sort of what this book was trying to do. But you -can- use the artwork in other ways.

 

[Kozak]

This is so dumb.

How did they think they could possibly get away with this without Nintendo's permission?

This is legit just using Nintendo's assets for their own gain. They even reworked the Official Seal...

This would have been a great project for them to approach Nintendo with even if they were rejected. It would at least establish a connection.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Wow what a shitty thing from Nintendo to do, I can't say I am surprised with how bad Nintendo continually drops the ball lately but I am really dissapointed and was really looking forward to this book especially after seeing the previous books they have done.

Hopefully it gets figured out and the book can still happen, I think it's really sad that people are defending Nintendo on this.

How is Nintendo in the wrong here?

 

[7DollarHagane]

Wow what a shitty thing from Nintendo to do, I can't say I am surprised with how bad Nintendo continually drops the ball lately but I am really dissapointed and was really looking forward to this book especially after seeing the previous books they have done.

Hopefully it gets figured out and the book can still happen, I think it's really sad that people are defending Nintendo on this.

No, it's part of their due diligence to call out projects that don't sufficiently transform the copyrighted content. This is literally a book full of screenshots from games. Could you do this with screenshots of tv shows and movies? No. Those books get the permission of the copyright holders.

Idk why people feel like they need a book full of blown up pictures of nes games

 

[7DollarHagane]

Wow what a shitty thing from Nintendo to do, I can't say I am surprised with how bad Nintendo continually drops the ball lately but I am really dissapointed and was really looking forward to this book especially after seeing the previous books they have done.

Hopefully it gets figured out and the book can still happen, I think it's really sad that people are defending Nintendo on this.

Considering how high quality the previous books they have done for commodore and amiga, It is definitely a loss.

Nah. Look at something like Pat the nes punk's book where he writes and reviews every game for the system and commissioned original art.

Unfortunately 200 emulator screenshots put into publisher and blown up to full page size doesn't make an original work.

 

[Lothars]

How is Nintendo in the wrong here?

It's a shitty thing for Nintendo to do. I would really like to know if they had tried to contact Nintendo since they have had multiple different kickstarters for other companies and have worked with other companies. I would be more shocked if they didn't contact Nintendo.

 

[Nights Owl]

The part about using screenshots is silly. Like posting screenshots is a copyrights violation?

The use of a similar "seal of quality" is sketchy though, I'll give Nintendo that.


Not to start a decade-old console war but... The more-or-less equivalent Kickstarter for a Genesis/Megadrive book wasn't shut down by Sega. Either they got their copyright stuff sorted out properly* and these guys didn't, or... Sega does what Nintendon't? (Or Sega doesn't what Nintendoes, I should say... xD)

Edit: I just re-read part of the Genesis KS campaign pitch and they mentioned they were "working closely with Sega" on it and Sega even provided assets. I guess this NES book wasn't like that at all, then?

I think the problem was the fact that those screenshots would be published in a "to be purchased" book.

 

[Rollo Tomasi]

Well that's a shame. I was planning on backing it before it was over as there was less than 24 hours to go.

 

[shandy706]

Neogaf isn't selling screenshots for money.

Pretty big difference!

Well...technically...it makes a lot of money off the screenshots we post..amongst many other gaming and random things

I would love a book of every screenshot posted on Gaf X-D

 

[Zonic]

Idk why people feel like they need a book full of blown up pictures of nes games

But it wasn't just that. It was also going to cover game maps, profiles on different developers, fan art, and articles on stuff like unreleased games & home brews, plus some pages dedicated to box art. It was also going to talk about each game going into more detail, not just "here's a screenshot of the game & that's it".

Also, I have a book that's nothing but mainly box art for Super Famicom games with two paragraphs talking about the game, then the cover art.

They're "coffee table" books, where you can just pick it up, flip to a random page and be able to enjoy what's on the page. If it's not your thing, that's fine, to each their own, but considering they've made 3 others on different systems, there's clearly a demand for them.

 

[Garou]

If I go to Disneyland and make a bunch of photos of attractions and parades and then try to make a book out of it I will get that shut down as well, so I don't see why Nintendo shouldn't do what is their right.

 

[7DollarHagane]

But it wasn't just that. It was also going to cover game maps, profiles on different developers, fan art, and articles on stuff like unreleased games & home brews, plus some pages dedicated to box art. It was also going to talk about each game going into more detail, not just "here's a screenshot of the game & that's it".

Also, I have a book that's nothing but mainly box art for Super Famicom games with two paragraphs talking about the game, then the cover art.

They're "coffee table" books, where you can just pick it up, flip to a random page and be able to enjoy what's on the page. If it's not your thing, that's fine, to each their own, but considering they've made 3 others on different systems, there's clearly a demand for them.

These are pointless. At what point is a random person going to want to sit on your couch and look at super famicom boxes or nes screenshots? It just seems like people too separate to wear "gamer" on their sleeve. Or people who are into retro games to show off their collections and never play anything.

 

[DarknessTear]

I'm with Nintendo on this one.

 

[Elaugaufein]

These are pointless. At what point is a random person going to want to sit on your couch and look at super famicom boxes or nes screenshots? It just seems like people too separate to wear "gamer" on their sleeve. Or people who are into retro games to show off their collections and never play anything.

At what point is a random person going to sit at your table and care about the theme of any particular coffee table book ? Its not like any of them are on gripping matters that are of definitive interest to every human being.

 

[foxuzamaki]

The thing is Nintendo has a huge history of shutting down fan projects, no matter what they are. This comes as no surprise.

Uh historically nintendo had been pretty hands off fan projects as long as they weren't being sold for money even for stuff like hacked game roms nintendo has allowed for years to exist, hell super Mario Maker was born out of people doing that with their Mario games for years.

 

[cabel]

If I go to Disneyland and make a bunch of photos of attractions and parades and then try to make a book out of it I will get that shut down as well, so I don't see why Nintendo shouldn't do what is their right.

I agree that Nintendo is within their rights on this, as much as it bums me out.

I also really, really hope Bitmap Books can cut a licensing deal with Nintendo. And I'm surprised they didn't try that up-front. Or worse, they did, and Nintendo said no…

But I'm not 100% sure your Disney Parks analogy is a good one. When I go to a theme park and take a photo, that photo, that composition, is mine — there's a unique element, it's an original work, even if the subject isn't mine, and that makes a difference. Case in point: there are a lot of books that are just photographs of the parks. For example, this book on Tokyo DisneySea has been around for a long time, and I highly recommend it!

That's not the case with a screenshot, though. Those pixels don't change… they're either there or they're not.

 

[Kyou]

I just naturally assumed they had gotten the okay

 

[Calm Mind]

You would think with all the countless examples that someone would learn from past mistakes made but here we are.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

It's a shitty thing for Nintendo to do. I would really like to know if they had tried to contact Nintendo since they have had multiple different kickstarters for other companies and have worked with other companies. I would be more shocked if they didn't contact Nintendo.

I really don't see what they did wrong or how it's shitty.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I really don't see what they did wrong or how it's shitty.

Its just any chance to pile on for some people. This could be about any company someone wanted a chance to talk bad about.

 

[Boney]

Why not partner with them and release it?

 

[Narroo]

I agree that Nintendo is within their rights on this, as much as it bums me out.

I also really, really hope Bitmap Books can cut a licensing deal with Nintendo. And I'm surprised they didn't try that up-front. Or worse, they did, and Nintendo said no…

But I'm not 100% sure your Disney Parks analogy is a good one. When I go to a theme park and take a photo, that photo, that composition, is mine — there's a unique element, it's an original work, even if the subject isn't mine, and that makes a difference. Case in point: there are a lot of books that are just photographs of the parks. For example, this book on Tokyo DisneySea has been around for a long time, and I highly recommend it!

That's not the case with a screenshot, though. Those pixels don't change… they're either there or they're not.

Not quite. This could possibly be filled under fair use. Fair use is infamously vague though. In the past, people have gotten away with similar books of movie posters or album covers by citing fair use. The kickstarters could try and claim something similar here. Reason being, it's a historical catalogue that doesn't reduce the value of Nintendo's games or interfere with their business, and the screen shots are most definitely being used in a new and original context. (You know no one made those games with the intent of specific screen shots being taken and put in a glossy book.)

But as I said, the courts are finicky and could easily decide not to approve it as fair use. You never know with this sort of thing. Eitherway, I doubt the kickstarters have the finances or incentive to sue.

It's pretty scummy for Nintendo to file a cease and desist this late. They probably were hoping it would fair and they wouldn't have to do anything.

 

[Lothars]

Its just any chance to pile on for some people. This could be about any company someone wanted a chance to talk bad about.

Well it seems like you will praise Nintendo for doing anything no matter what, I love Nintendo and they really got me into games. I've seen the other books this company does and they are a labour of love for each of the systems they have done. I think that's exactly what this would have been for this book to and the decisions Nintendo seems to make just seem to dissapoint me anymore.

 

[_Ryo_]

Well, was this book suppose to be only pictures or documentary text as well? Would not documentary's be considered fair use and thus legal for sale?