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Nintendo Forces NES/Famicom Visual Compendium Kickstarter To Change Name

Enforcer

Member
It's a tricky issue, because the owners of the property itself are entirely individualistic as to how permissive they are with their use, but generally the more purely commercial an 'infringing' work is, the less a court is likely to side with the infringer.

I don't see a court deciding that a coffee table book with minimal editorial commentary being released purely on commercial grounds and whose commercial appeal is specifically based on the IP of another party is "fair use" or "transformative" though
e:
I mean, the history of hip-hop is filled with issues regarding sampling where courts have ruled a small hook from a song, resampled into a beat and then with entirely new lyrics and meaning added by a different performer have not been "transformative"

It's definitely a complex issue. I've read about the decisions regarding sampling in music, and I think that the courts didn't make the right call on that, but there's not much to be done about that now.

I am curious as to how he managed to make his other books, since they seem very similar to the NES book. Lots of pictures and screenshots with minimal text. I suppose those companies aren't really around anymore (except for the Frankenstein's monster that currently is shambling around masquerading as Commodore), so there's no one to challenge his use of those images.
 

Stiler

Member
So adding "Film was shit" as a caption makes a T-Shirt Fair Use?
Nope.



Here's the really fundamental point; you (as user of others work in whatever manner) don't get to be the one who decides whether something is or is not "Fair Use".

That's why people contact rights holders; if a rights holder considers something fair use then there will never be a problem.

But that's my point, you do not have to "contact" the owner nor get permission under fair use. Yes they can try to fight you on it, but as long as the work is clearly fair use you can win.

Do you think every-gaming mag ever got permission for every single screenshot they took of a video game and put into the magazine or anything? Of course not, because reviewing or informing in that way is covered under fair use.

Take parody cartoons in newspapers, especially political parodies and such, think they get permission from whoever they are making fun of or making the commentary about? Nope, because it's clearly fair use.

Asking for permission is just a way to get a clear go ahead and they will "allow" it and won't try to sue you or take you to court, but it is absolutely not a requirement that you need to do, that's my point.
 

buttdiver

Member
The only thing that is surprising is how many people are unaware of the ramifications of plagiarizing / stealing copyrighted content.
 
It took 2 days for the Super Famicom Box Art Collection book to be taken down from Kickstarter for similar copyright reasons. I feel like this would've happened during its first week, not a month later.
Super Famicom Box Art Collection was taken down by the creator AFAIK
 
As Bitmap Books are in the UK, it might be worth looking at the UK exceptions to copyright, which you can find a guide to here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptions-to-copyright

The thing to note is it's very much something you have to argue - there's no 'you can use X amount'. Depending on what exemptions you're arguing, for how much work to use and how much that makes up of the new work, that'll all matter. And I guess because of that, challenging the use and (legally) arguing it out can be part of the process. But it's worth looking at it through the UK guidance.
 
The part about using screenshots is silly. Like posting screenshots is a copyrights violation?

The use of a similar "seal of quality" is sketchy though, I'll give Nintendo that.


Not to start a decade-old console war but... The more-or-less equivalent Kickstarter for a Genesis/Megadrive book wasn't shut down by Sega. Either they got their copyright stuff sorted out properly* and these guys didn't, or... Sega does what Nintendon't? :D (Or Sega doesn't what Nintendoes, I should say... xD)

Edit: I just re-read part of the Genesis KS campaign pitch and they mentioned they were "working closely with Sega" on it and Sega even provided assets. I guess this NES book wasn't like that at all, then?

Why on earth should a third party be allowed to make money off Nintendo's works without Nintendo's permission?


I am so tired of this narrative in these instances that the copyright holder is always the evil bad guy out to look out for its own bottom line when in actuality the only greedy one here are the people using art and works they don't own and are making money off of it though a Kickstarter.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Your argument is all over the place.

Do you think every-gaming mag ever got permission for every single screenshot they took of a video game and put into the magazine or anything? Of course not, because reviewing or informing in that way is covered under fair use.

Do you mean in print media days when magazines were explicitly given publisher approved screenshots as part of a presspack, a tradition that still continues to this day?

Or do you mean when reviewers are given copies of games to make reviews from, and are under strict publisher guidelines as to what content they are allowed to show or discuss as part of their review, and frequently subject to embargo as to when they can say it?

Because yes, every gaming mag had permission to print screenshots, often written and explicit.
That's how it works.

Take parody cartoons in newspapers, especially political parodies and such, think they get permission from whoever they are making fun of or making the commentary about? Nope, because it's clearly fair use.

Political parodies are something entirely different.
You could have a political cartoonist copy the broad likeness of the avengers and have a panel about, fuck, the usual unfunny stuff political cartoonists consists of; a caption saying "Obama assembles his anti-deficit task force" and some chitauri with caricatured heads of congress surrounding them.

That's a vast fucking difference to making a coffee table book called "Avengers Visual Compendium" filled with drawings of the Avengers and a fake Marvel logo on the cover.
 

Borman

Member
The logo thing is a bit tricky, but there may be something to gain from looking at cases like Bleem vs Sony.

"The third factor recognizes that the closer the copied portion gets to the whole of the copyrighted work, the less likely it is to be fair use. The court analogized video games to motion pictures and characterized a screen shot as representing 1/30th of a second's worth of the video game. The court determined that a screen shot was of little substance to the overall copyrighted work.

The court stated that “the third factor will almost always weigh against the video game manufacturer because a screen shot is such an insignificant portion of the complex copyrighted work as a whole.” Op. at 1028. Here, the third factor supported Bleem's fair use claims."


Among other parts talked about here: http://www.patentarcade.com/2009/10/copyright-in-screen-shots-sony-v-bleem.html

The issue being it weighs more heavily on comparative advertising, but the case isn't nearly as simple as people make it out to be.
 

Stiler

Member
Your argument is all over the place.

Do you mean in print media days when magazines were explicitly given publisher approved screenshots as part of a presspack, a tradition that still continues to this day?

Or do you mean when reviewers are given copies of games to make reviews from, and are under strict publisher guidelines as to what content they are allowed to show or discuss as part of their review, and frequently subject to embargo as to when they can say it?

Because yes, every gaming mag had permission to print screenshots, often written and explicit.
That's how it works.

I am talking about joe blow making reviews or print magazines that would publish with their OWN screens, not just pre-approved screens (In many older gaming magazines they'd have funny screens or joke screens and things from games, mainly in the backs or things).

You are really confusing the law of fair use with publisher backed embargo's and agreements tehy have with gaming journalist to provide them with the pre-release games and information.

If you review a game or do something that makes a publisher "upset" do you know what they can do? Ask Jim Sterling, they can black-list you, not invite you to any of their pre-release events and won't provide you with "free" games to review before the games are released.

Do you know what they CAN'T do? Stop you from reviewing their game or using screens/video snippits from said game. This is fair use.

The ONLY reason publishers have embargo's and "agreements" with gaming journalist is for reviewers to get the games early and get to press in time when the game is released.

They have 0 legal grounds to win legal action against a reviewer if you review their game when its released. This is clear cut fair use and has held up time and again under the law.


Political parodies are something entirely different.
You could have a political cartoonist copy the broad likeness of the avengers and have a panel about, fuck, the usual unfunny stuff political cartoonists consists of; a caption saying "Obama assembles his anti-deficit task force" and some chitauri with caricatured heads of congress surrounding them.

That's a vast fucking difference to making a coffee table book called "Avengers Visual Compendium" filled with drawings of the Avengers and a fake Marvel logo on the cover.

It's more akin to a educational books.

Educating people and showing the historical evolution of the games and art style over the course of the console while providing commentary and other info on the graphics and games.

This is why you can take a book on cinematography, grab frames from various movies (even those still protected by copyright) and use them to illustrate certain cinematography styles and examples as long as you are doing so to provide commentary and using it for educating people or showing the historical context.

As someone posted above with the Bleem ruling, a screenshot from a video game is a very insignificant part of a video game.
 

joedick

Member
...
If Nintendo were smart they'd offer a license, which would cost the Kickstarter project money, but make it totally legit. Don't know how much Nintendo would charge for this, but from an another author I heard Capcom quoted $15k to license one of their properties for an "official guide" type book. Since the campaign got like $100k so far and was faffing about with things like lenticular covers, I'm sure they could afford it.

Some interesting points! Question, though: If they were able to get a license from Nintendo, wouldn't that only cover first-party stuff? I imagine this would leave them open to other companies also asking for money, which would probably get way too expensive to be worth it.
 
Succes! :D
Hi there,

This is a message from the Kickstarter Integrity Team. We’re writing to let you know that a project you were interested in — NES/Famicom: a visual compendium — is now available on the site. The process for this project’s intellectual property dispute is complete.

Please note that the project’s deadline (the day your pledge will be collected) has changed.

New project deadline
Fri, Jul 22 2016 1:58 pm EDT

Time remaining
23 hours

You can visit the project here.

Thanks so much for your patience!
Kickstarter
 

Robin64

Member
Boom!

So I guess, what's changed? Looks like the faux-Seal of Quality mark is gone. Wonder if that's all it took.

Edit: Ah, now has "unofficial" in the title too.

Before said:
fa7615aa854d7d3bed8fcf829a8d5635_original.jpg

After said:

Also looks to be more text on pages, as seen with the Mario 2 example above.
 

Chittagong

Gold Member
I always thought that the problem was that lookalike seal, not screenshots. Lol @ all the people saying you shouldn't be able to make a book where the main content are the screenshots, not written editorial.
 
Hello backers

Firstly, a huge thanks for sticking with this through what has been a pretty stressful few weeks.

If you haven't received a message from Kickstarter, the good news is that WE'RE LIVE AGAIN! I've had some very productive conversations with Nintendo about the book and I'm so pleased that it can continue.

The clock starts were it stopped so there are 23 hours left. You'll see that the total has dropped a little to just under 170K but hopefully we can get it back to where it was before this happened.

Onwards!

Thanks, Sam
An other update.
 
Was expecting a bit more information, maybe someone can ask on the comments what changed. Maybe they can't disclose it, I dunno.

I feel like comparing the old and new pages mostly explains everything.

Basically, it seems like Nintendo wanted them to make sure it was clearly labeled unofficial and they probably asked that Nintendo art assets not be used as promotion for the book - a Mario sprite was on the stretch goals image and the faux "Seal of Quality" are gone.

The extra text on each page makes me think that Nintendo wanted them to display more of their own work. Once a sufficient amount of text accompanied each screenshot Nintendo was okay with it. The downside there is that if the extra text is rushed it may be uninteresting to read. Hopefully whoever is employed as the writer on the project can add interesting words without feeling they they are just filling space.
 

smisk

Member
Pleased, and surprised this came back! I thought it was dead..
Now I gotta decide whether I really need this. Already backed System Shock recently, not sure if I should do two projects so close together.
 

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
Sounds similar to when Konami went after Hardcore Gaming 101's book on Castlevania, he basically had to put "Unofficial & Unauthorized" on the cover for that & all future books.

Either way, glad to hear he got it back up.
 
Boom!

So I guess, what's changed? Looks like the faux-Seal of Quality mark is gone. Wonder if that's all it took.

Edit: Ah, now has "unofficial" in the title too.

Also looks to be more text on pages, as seen with the Mario 2 example above.
and no NINTENDO in the title
 

thelatestmodel

Junior, please.
Great news, I'm glad Nintendo saw sense and were able to work something out. Bitmap books are works of art, it would have been a terrible shame for this to get shut down completely.
 
Details:
Hi backers

As promised, I just wanted to give a little more information around what has gone on and the changes that have been made to the book due to the whole copyright thing.
1. Cover

Added 'The unofficial'.
2. Game pages

The amount of text has doubled. I don't see this as a problem and if anything it benefits you guys as they'll be more to read.
3. Seal

The mock Nintendo seal has been removed from the campaign. This was never in the book anyway so no impact to design.
4. Timing

Regardless of the copyright claim, the deadline of January was always going to be a challenge due to the book doubling in size throughout the campaign. I have no intention of letting it drift and previously I have pretty much been on time. The reality is that there is now a lot more text so this will naturally add time to the project. At this present moment, I would guess that we're looking at a February 2017 delivery instead of January.

So overall, the effect of what's gone on is quite minimal. I do have other guidelines to follow but these are things I can be checking as I go.

Hope that reassures everyone.

Sam
 
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