It's not just AF missing in games, it's why do some XB1 versions of games have AF and PS4 don't.
So why did the Dying Light devs have to reduce LOD for improved AF? AF requires bandwidth and PS4 uses the theoretical 176gb/s for everything.
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PS4's AF issue we need answers!
- Thread starter pixlexic
- Start date
It's not just AF missing in games, it's why do some XB1 versions of games have AF and PS4 don't.
So why did the Dying Light devs have to reduce LOD for improved AF? AF requires bandwidth and PS4 uses the theoretical 176gb/s for everything.
We need to see the XBO version of the game post patch to make a claim like this. If draw distance for grass was reduced on both versions due to what the patch notes say is "performance optimizations" and changes to world/environment art, then it would be hard to say it is directly related to adding AF in the PS4 version.
We don't know that there is a 1:1 correlation between AF and grass draw distance. It was a fairly large patch that made numerous changes to the game on all platforms. We'd need a new comparison to even have the info needed to make this claim.
Yeah, would be nice to see XB1 comparison, as it had better AF before the patch on PS4. XB1 version runs at a lower resolution so that could help the XB1 version.
Currently we sadly don't get the information why xbone has a lower resolution in many cases.
It could be
- esram size
- gpu not powerful enough
- engine issues (e.g. Fox engine)
which makes it hard to get an idea what helps and if it helps that xbone renders at a lower resolution.
Can you prove they have reduced the LOD in the whole game or we are talking of the same only shot leaked with this 'issue'? Because it's stupid talk of reduced LOD just from less grass in a single shot.
I was specifically talking about Dying light more a broad case like the thread.
Ha you caught me I lost myself there and couldn't hide it well misterxmedia was right this is SonyGaf afterall /s
One would have thought we are past using such that BS word apparently not
Yh this is indeed interesting and peculiar especially something like Strider. With DF looking into it maybe we will get an insight to why this has about in cases like Strider and the like. I should have worded my comment better but what I was more referring to is the way the OP has laid out this thread has something that is a specific issue with AF on PS4 because evidence doesn't point it being that.
Like the above which isn't true and if you compile all the evidence from DF and the like it is indeed random/select games and not in anyway a trend.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Sorry, you have no evidence for any LOD change. Your reaching with the pic with different time if day and dynamic nature if the game, i.e. wind. You are inventing and driving a narrative, keep fighting the good fight young warrior.
Are you joking? Xbone has reduced res compared the ps4 for the simple fact it has 16 ROPS in the gpu vs 32 ROPS required at minimun in the AMD card. It's not that great mistery to solve.
I know the game is a year or more out, but let's be real, AF isn't going to make it in. I can't wait to play this after work, but man so much texture soup. Is it trilinear striking again?
Ugh, reminds me of the first time I played Oblivion on 360 and all the rolling hills looked like green sludge.
I doubt it's fillrate bound judging by Forza.
It's definitely esram size and main memory bandwidth that's the issue.
But still enough gpu time for af? Right. I know your opinion in this case but we have already seen resolution bumps for games. Fact is that any option I listed is a valid option/reason that could lead to a lower resolution, it could also be that several are causing it at the same time but it's most probably not only because of the gpu.
Mr Moose
Member
Hasn't it actually improved? Posted some screens in the OT, I'll put them here too.
Taken from DF before patch:
Pic I took after patch:
The most of 1080p games on xbone are remastered titles, less real time or sophisticated effects to handle, I don't know how much could help here ESRAM considered the whole bandwith it's not even faster of the ps4. How can reach 1080p with just the ESRAM and a weaker gpu exactly? AF again? It has explained tons of times xbone can't handle better AF, I though Dying Light after patch was a clear prove but continue to believe it, I don't know what to say of more O_O
Hasn't it actually improved? Posted some screens in the OT, I'll put them here too.
Taken from DF before patch:
Pic I took after patch:
Based on these shots, the LOD seems either the same or slightly improved (cf crane)...
On another note, I renew my call for someone who would have access to both Xb1/PS4 versions of Sherlock holmes to do a side by side comparison, as DF (I think) never made the face off, so we can compare AF (the game uses UE3 afaik).
For games that are more complex to render (i.e. shader/tex), you're going to be less limited by the ROPs.
A large factor is going to be the size of the G-buffer and what else they need to keep in the higher bandwidth pool at a given time.
Honestly I could wrong but isn't it required a certain amount of ROPS for some res? I know ESRAM could help to render multiple framebuffers but it needs to be very large to handle full 1080p games.
If this was the case no game would be able to achieve 1080p and we know this is wrong. Even some last gen games achieved 1080p. How navy ROPs did ps3 and 360 have again? You see that looking only at ROPs isn't leading to any satisfying reason.
I'm not saying xbone can't handle 1080p at all but just in the more expensive games. ESRAM is not large enough to fit 1080p and ROPS can't help because are lesser of the ps4.
You sure ?. Theres walls of a building missing in the after pic that render in fine in the before pic, middle of the image.
Edit, nvm im an idiot and mixed the 2 pics up, its in the after pic that the building is rendering in fully.
It certainly helps with things like simpler transparencies/overdraw & shadows (up until you're out of bandwidth).
ROPs are only part of the entire rendering pipe, and in modern engines, the most expensive parts are going to the shading calcs. Depends on what's going on in the scene.
It seems more they have replaced the walls with a new building.
Well, like I said it's a news to me. I mean I though higher ROPS were fundamental, I see different new cards increase the ROPS . My fault.
WordsintheWater
Member
Are you guys really using my screenshot from a DEMO to talk about PS4 and AF issues? I mean come on. Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt for now?
The hell are you talking about? Warrior?
The patch in Dying Light in his screen shows the removal of grass in that spot up ahead. I don't know why it's missing while he's in the same spot after the devs patched the game that included AF. And really, wind is making the grass disappear there?
If you look closer, in the before pic you are actually seeing the roof of a building floating in midair and seeing stuff behind that building, and in the after the rest of that building is actually there so aren't seeing through it anymore.
There's also a building to the left that doesn't have windows before and has windows after, and more struts are visible on the construction crane in the background, as well as less blurry windows on the building below the crane (likely due to the AF increase).
I think we need to clarify exactly what we are all talking about here, as these latest pics do seem to show an improvement in LOD, or at least fixes to LOD bugs, that is the level of detail of objects based on how far away they are from the camera.
What we were talking about in the earlier comparison with the grass wasn't really LOD but simple draw distance, as in the grass simply isn't' there at all until you are X distance away from it.
It would be entirely possible for them to increase LOD on objects while also decreasing draw distance on other objects. And again, it's hard to say if any of these changes have anything to do with AF being improved without knowing what was done to the game overall in the patch. (also holy crap follow Alien: Isolation and Lords of the Fallen and give a toggle option for chromatic aberration, game would look so much cleaner with that disabled).
And there's also at least one window showing in the after pic that's missing in the before pic so I don't think that this sort of stuff is going to help us in determining the LOD quality
. (Look at the low building that's slightly to the left of the image's center.)I'm not saying they aren't important, but PC games are also pushing much higher settings across all areas.
Hasn't it actually improved? Posted some screens in the OT, I'll put them here too.
Taken from DF before patch:
Pic I took after patch:
LOD looks slightly improved post patch based on these. The one building in the middle, crane and mountain foliage so all these LOD talk are probably not AF related but some concerned people want to keep it that way.
in one comparison, theres 2 others that show no change
Yeah, but the pic that was just posted on this page is new. I was talking about the other pic that was the only pre patch/post patch shot I've seen. The comparison on this page shows improved LOD, especially on the buildings, after the patch. But now I'm a "warrior" because I don't know why there's AF issues in some games? lol, ok
New shot in the exact same spot. LOD may have been decreased after all ? Pretty big difference.
I'd still rather have the AFx4, or x8 or what ever they have it at instead of none. Its just a pity if they've had to make the already low detail even lower.
While your pic is extremely close it's not identical. Can you post a video?
Would be nice if some of the confirmed 3rd party developers on here would comment. They've done so in the past without breaking the NDA. While they wouldn't know anything about another developers game, they could still give a simple answer like " It's hardware " or " It's software". It wouldn't answer every question but it would at least steer the conversation in the right direction. We're stumbling around in the dark at this point.
Disregard my comment. i confused the 2 pics. In the second/after shot it looks like the building is rendering in fully. my mistake sry.
So one comparison shows reduced foliage lod, and another show buildings have been improved. going off only 2 examples though. Theres a 3rd comparison showing no noticeable reduced foliage in a before after pic. So its anyones guess.
I dont have a vid, but i can tell you that i had to walk past the first puddle for the grass to render in post patch.. i was going to make a gif of it, but lazy.. If im not too hungover tomorrow i do it.
maybe this particular issue is covered by NDA
theres another example a page back - the problem is people take one pic and think it's proof, it could just be a one off example
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Aside from the much better looking crane, there's a new house visible straight ahead on the new screen. Also windows are now visible on another house on the new screen.
Dictator93
Member
I am really not seeing any difference in LOD, but the AF looks way better.
I just went back 4 pages (50ppp) and I only saw the same spot from Chabbles where he got closer to show the LOD kick in.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
There's like whole bottom of the house smack middle of the screen missing on the old screen, and also windows on the building to the left of it. Crane looks much worse on the old screen too.
True. Well, looks as if Digital Foundry's anonymous developers will be our last hope. That's assuming they can even get any answers.
The grass at the bottom left looks better, too.
I went and noticed it after Lord Error mentionned it.
Look at the house in the distance straight in the middle of the picture.
If the before shot, it's just a roof hanging in mid air.
In the after patch, you can see the house plainly.
Windows also appeared on the left side house, and the facade seems to have more details overall.
ta,thats the one I meant
thelastword
Banned
Lod looks slightly better as I observed before, when the patch first dropped. IQ looks a bit better as well and not just because of the AF, it seems they toned down on CA, at least from these shots, you can also resolve more detail in the distance, the patched image just looks cleaner and sharper.Hasn't it actually improved? Posted some screens in the OT, I'll put them here too.
Taken from DF before patch:
Pic I took after patch:
WordsintheWater
Member
Very poor AF. :/
Again, it's a demo, ground textures look shitty in general.
WordsintheWater
Member
If you guys want to check out the AF in the demo here's a screenshot that may help you all better. Took one on a road just to see how far it would go. Not technically sound so I dunno if there is any AF, but here it is.
There's also an entire house added to go with that floating roof in the middle.
