Maintenance
Member
Then I have some bad news for you. Unless something changed, of course.
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Shenmue 3 won't be at E3
- Thread starter jbug617
- Start date
Then I have some bad news for you. Unless something changed, of course.
Absolutely. Anybody with significant experience of both series (and yes, that means playing Shenmue II) will know they diverge a lot outside of common surface elements.
Oh most definitely now. Slightly surprised they're not announcing a delay alongside not showing up at E3, but I guess that's maybe too much bad news in one go.
Isn't there supposed to be 1 more game after this? I'm not expecting it to end with 3.
Almost definitely not a 2018 game, either. As with all Kickstarter games I back, it'll be done when it's done. As a baseline I expect every game Kickstarter to deliver a year late (compared to the "Expected delivery" date on the KS campaign) at the earliest.
Randomizer
Member
Have they shown Ryo's updated model yet? Looks good for what basically amounts to a relatively low budget indie game. I really wish Sega funded it and gave them the budget and engine of Yakuza title. Perhaps if it sells well, we could see a higher budgeted sequel but not getting my hopes up. Either way just being able to get to finish out Ryo's journey after all these years is a literal dream come true.Some screencaps, because even though not showing at E3 is the thing getting talked about most in this thread it wasn't actually the main subject of the update.
I've always really liked Kenji Miyawaki's art on Shenmue anyway, so I'm pretty happy they're leaning heavily into his designs for the 3D models.
I'd have to guess the area they're testing the model in is their generic environment for doing physically based rendering checks.
I have a few questions for you.
1) Why is it negative or wrong to be frustrated that the status quo for games recently is reveal, delay, delay, delay, release? Especially when a release date has been set. Especially when the game is being funded by public money.
2) How do you know if it is just going to be delayed until Summer 2018?
3) Why is it not important to show real progress in a game and not just minute snippets?
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
E3 2020
FF7
Shenmue 3
KH3
lol
FF7
Shenmue 3
KH3
lol
friskykillface
Banned
2 years this year since the big 3 were announced and only the last guardian released
Ouch
Just give me Shenmue 1+2 HD and we good sega
I'll assume they will price both for like $30 each
Shenmue 3 won't hit retail until 2019 at the earliest
marcbret87
Member
I'm sorry but this is absurd. There are 6000+ backers who put their money to make the game possible. If there is more then they should show it in their updates to the people who put their money on the line, they owe it to us. We are 24 months into it and we have seen nothing, the updates are fairly inconsequential. I'm okay with the game being delayed, I expected that, but honestly I thought they would have shown something more meaty to the backers, and somebody anonymous saying things are much more advanced in an online forum even if they don't show it does not seem okay to me.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
People don't realize the sheer amount of resources having *anything* ready for E3 consumes. Yes that means even a trailer. That they're directing all resources toward continued development speaks volumes to the managerial competence they're handling this project with.
I have less faith in the project, as a result of this statement.
If you can't understand annoyance at there being no "mainstream ready" promotional material ready for this E3 given (1) the event's significance in the original project announcments and (2) the original stated timeline for the project, then your expectations are pathetically low. While I think people underestimate the effort behind promo materials in general, there's a corrolary that a group of professionals (even on a shoestring budget) should be able to produce polished, if not rudimentary, materials to show off that work for a large audience.
If you can't understand annoyance at there being no "mainstream ready" promotional material ready for this E3 given (1) the event's significance in the original project announcments and (2) the original stated timeline for the project, then your expectations are pathetically low. While I think people underestimate the effort behind promo materials in general, there's a corrolary that a group of professionals (even on a shoestring budget) should be able to produce polished, if not rudimentary, materials to show off that work for a large audience.
Don't get hyperbolic. Saying they've shown nothing is actually bullshit, and you know that. They have maintained an update schedule far more regular than many other Kickstarters have, and that's even without a media team on staff. They're not promotional videos, they're dev diaries.
The re-reveal will come, and it's probably closer than you think, but it's not going to happen before they're ready.
From the back, yes. No idea if it was complete though, there was a very prominent "assets are from older resources or tentative placeholders" etc label when they showed it, which is actually missing from this latest video. They're probably getting deeper into the process of finalising the art assets now.
I don't think you know what that word means.
Also, use your head. Why would a KICKSTARTER GAME announce before development began? Come on. I've seen this sentiment so fucking much lately, and it's such a giant lapse of logic.
mortal
Gold Member
That's literally what they did at Sony's press conference. The game was in preproduction at best.
Game shows are a colossal drain on resources if developers need to make a vertical slice for demo or trailer.
Oftentimes, the game may not even be playable until late in the pipeline when all the disparate elements come together.
I mean, you guys have been waiting forever. What's an E3 or 2?
Oftentimes, the game may not even be playable until late in the pipeline when all the disparate elements come together.
I mean, you guys have been waiting forever. What's an E3 or 2?
Fox Mulder
Member
It was to hype up the kickstarter at the time. Sony announcing it just gave it more eyeballs.
Randomizer
Member
Hmm...I see.
mortal
Gold Member
Has Sony no financial involvement?
Gamezone
Gold Member
Publishing marketing. I think that`s it.
As much as it's frustrating to see play out, there's a totally reasonable dillemma when you know you need more time beyond an original release date, but you can't be sure enough how the calendar will play out.
If you just say "at a later date," you get hit with the stigma of "indefinite delay," or if you give something more specific arbitrarily, you're risking the appearance of multiple delays from just from the normal process of development. 2017 sounded waaaay too quick for a release date to me, but it's what they gave. I think not having any sort of "prime-time" material for the E3 of what's theoretically the game's release year has its own bad taste, though.
I am not a developer myself but if anyone wants further insight on why games get delayed this could be some good bedtime reading: http://kotaku.com/why-video-games-are-delayed-so-often-1795473828
I believe there was a thread on this awhile back.
I believe there was a thread on this awhile back.
MaulerX
Member
Not sure why people are saying this as a way to justify this. How many Kickstarter games get announced at E3? This was announced at E3 for crying out loud and used by Sony in their conference as a bullet point to "win" it. It's only natural for people to feel disappointed.
They have stated they are taking care of 'marketing'.
IronicSonic
Member
ROFL
AFAWK, Dec 2017 is still on track even though, I think 2018Q2 is not bad
This is such a backwards way of looking at it, though.
Look, I think we all know at this point it means the game is getting delayed. It wasn't announced today, but it's probably coming down the line.
However, why the hell would they decide to blow their load now when they can just kick the can down the road to the next big event (idk, PSX?) and concentrate over the summer on working on the game?
Don't you prefer this approach to something like Final Fantasy 15? Where they debut with an advanced looking trailer, but takes over three and a half years to release despite multiple demos, trade show appearances, and whatever else. And they're still kind of developing the game on the fly through patches.
It's probably too much bad news in one go, when they're obviously trying to keep their heads down and just work. Make no mistake, there's a reason why this update is super brief; they're busy as fuck.
Very true, though I think in this case it was a conscious decision to push the re-reveal further down the road rather than a resources issue. This feels like a long term choice of making hay while the sun is shining, or I guess to make use of the time now on what matters in the end product instead of trying to promote a game that almost certainly isn't going to release this year.
Hype can wait, development can't.
Answer mine first, don't flip.
Public money would be taxpayer's money. This isn't a government project. Crowdfunding is private investment, as each contribution is made willingly by an individual in a private capacity.
Learn your definitions.
Yes, that's the point. They had to announce to get funded, there was no way around it.
Is E3 the problem here? Because I'm absolutely certain the same lapses of logic would be happening from people unwilling to take the time to think no matter where it was revealed.
Some screencaps, because even though not showing at E3 is the thing getting talked about most in this thread it wasn't actually the main subject of the update.
I've always really liked Kenji Miyawaki's art on Shenmue anyway, so I'm pretty happy they're leaning heavily into his designs for the 3D models.
I'd have to guess the area they're testing the model in is their generic environment for doing physically based rendering checks.
Getting Gaston vibes.
marcbret87
Member
It would be bullshit if I had said they have shown nothing, but what I actually said is that what they are showing seems fairly basic stuff considering we are 24 months into it. I understand things take time, but if they do have more stuff I don't quite understand that it's shown to a "select few" when the game is supposedly funded by the 6000+ backers who would like to know how the game is progressing. Not going to E3 is absolutely fine, I agree it's a huge drain on resources, but they do owe to the backers to show something more interesting if they have it.
Like I said, pathetically low expectations. Your idea that any sort of standard-approach promo materials would be "blowing their load" is ludicrous. A Kickstarted game has the benefit of more flexibility in how open they can be with communications. I think if the reasonable-in-its-own-way reality of a delay is making sopmething like a traditional trailer impractical, saying "we're moving our expected ship date into at least the next year" needs to be part of the communication saying so. Otherwise, it raises a very rational question of why more polished materials aren't showing up so close to the tentative release date this year. This is the sort of communication gaffe that risks souring normal goodwill, especially from people who understand how insane any game development project is. If there's one thing a dev should be super open about, it's a revised production calendar with backers.
I dig the look of that model, even knowing aspects are WIP. I'm understanding more the style they're working toward, seeing the conversions from 2D to 3D. Shenmue thugs were some of my favorite "throw away" enemies in any series, and were surprisingly memorable, even over time.
TheVampire
Banned
I gave them my money and this is how they repay me?
PeakPointMatrix
Member
The moment they show something as simple as a fucking street corner that looks "too rough", the entire fanbase and prospective customers will go into a panic. That's how fickle gamers are. They're smart not to show their hand too early, and yes too years is two early.
I pretty much did with my counter-questions. Having something to show other than developer diaries gives confidence. If you're going to come out with a reveal like that and then ask for money, I would hope that you at least give backers something to look forward to a few years down the road. I mean, am I really asking the impossible here? As for the delay, nothing we can do about that, but we are edging closer to release time and some people say it's on schedule and others say delay. You don't see a problem with that either?
Public money would be taxpayer's money. This isn't a government project. Crowdfunding is private investment, as each contribution is made willingly by an individual in a private capacity.
Learn your definitions.
Bad wording, DR. I meant kickstarter monies. Cut me some slack.
Elfforkusu
Member
1. This is a new game from Yu Suzuki. Actually, that's probably underselling it. This is the next installment of Yu Suzuki's unfinished magnum opus.
2. We don't, but it's a game from Yu Suzuki and unless he's completely lost his touch any delays will be essential and lead to a better final result
3. They'll show it when it's ready
My answer to #1 is the essential one. Maybe Yu's lost his touch and the game is delayed forever or comes out incomplete or (...), but those outcomes would be a tragedy and not a scam. The dude is probably the greatest game dev of all time.
marcbret87
Member
If two years is too early then they shouldn't have set a date for December 2017. And I'm sorry, but this excuse is nonsense, if you don't want to show anything to gamers because they are too fickle then they should have found a way to not depend on those gamers to fund the game
They were $10K backers, that's why.
I'm not going to put words in their mouths (because at least one $10K backer posts here and can speak for himself), but although the work done was far in excess of anything we've seen already, the trailer they saw was not ready for prime time and contained a lot of placeholder art assets. I would hazard a guess that what they saw was the blueprint for what we'll eventually all see when Shenmue III re-reveals properly in... anywhere in the next six months.
These sneak peeks weren't part of their reward but were treats at Yu Suzuki's discretion with people he believed he could trust would be able to keep in mind the footage was still early. That cannot be guaranteed with a wider public audience, and especially not with a press who have been, well, hostile to the project previously. There's no single reason why they're playing their cards so close to their chest like this, but it's a longer term strategy.
The issue is the give and the take. The fans want more, but the act of overplaying their hand could lead to spoiling something, making a promise that can't be kept, showing a feature that might get cut, or just getting raked over the coals in the media despite the incredibly clear disclaimer that the work is in-progress.
It's a shitty situation for everybody, not least YSnet, but - I guess the theory is that if they keep their heads down and work, and still provide a monthly update without giving away too much, then when it comes time to show the game they won't be in a compromised state of having to avoid showing certain sections of the game because they're not ready, or advancing art assets to near final (and risking a downgrade later), or pulling some Square Enix hocus pocus for a few cheap plaudits and momentary glory.
Didn't expect them to show Shenmue 3 this year, it hasn't even been in development for 2 years yet, it really started after the Kickstarter ended, even then it took some time to hire the current staff working on it now. Shenmue 3 if the same size of either of the first two games, it's going to take quite some time to make.
Elfforkusu
Member
I hear you, but if you don't set deadlines you'll never come close to hitting them. That is how software development works.
The big studios are able to disguise this by either not announcing stuff until late in development or by hiring a ton of bodies and having them work 80+ hour weeks. (or: both)
Basically, any videogame project not on a AAA budget announced early in development is probably going to have an optimistic deadline, so expect delays. This includes almost all game kickstarters.
As someone who works directly with software development, truthfacts.
ShenmueDojo
Member
Actual clothing used to help design the 3d model.
Azelover
Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
They need a lot more money.
They're not doing a very good job at marketing right now.
Back during the Dreamcast days we saw a lot of footage years before the release date. We even saw a lot of target renders, and a CG movie showing more of the story than we have seen in the games so far.
I'm worried.
They're not doing a very good job at marketing right now.
Back during the Dreamcast days we saw a lot of footage years before the release date. We even saw a lot of target renders, and a CG movie showing more of the story than we have seen in the games so far.
I'm worried.