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[Deleted member 752119]

Well, there it is.

I trust Matt's take on this far more then the average armchair analyst gaffer, for good reason, this news also matches and likely exceeds Sony expectations for the pro. Remember they had very conservative numbers/expectations for the sales of the pro before it came out.

Also, guys Jim Ryan in the interview was very positive about the sales. Shaun Layden also sounded happy with the sales so far.

Personally I pegged the numbers being around 15% optimistically, so it's betel mine by a good extent.

Yep.

Plus, the real profit is in software and accessories so I can't imagine Sony really cares that much whether someone buys a Slim or Pro as long as they're getting into the PS ecosystem, buying games, DS4s, paying for PS+ etc. Hell, if anything the profit margin may be higher on the Slims so they may prefer those sales until production costs on Pros drop.

 

[Curufinwe]

20% is higher than I expected.

If you think about selling 80 PS4s at $275 and 20 PS4 Pros at $400, the business case for a premium SKU becomes obvious. In that hypothetical example, revenue from the Pro is 36% of the slim revenue.

 

[pretty done]

I love my ps4, I have no interest in a Pro. It doesn't offer much over the launch system.

Maybe if you only own a 1080p TV....

If you've got a 4KTV a Pro is basically needed. Vanilla is obsolete.

 

[NullPointer]

That's just about what I would expect.

Good for them. I'm glad to have one, even with my 1080p screen.

 

[Coxy100]

Maybe if you only own a 1080p TV....

If you've got a 4KTV a Pro is basically needed. Vanilla is obsolete.

It's really not mate. Let's not use hyperbole.

I have a Slim and a 4K tv - it looks amazing as it is thanks

 

[ethomaz]

That is crazy amazing when most predictions were close to 10% than 20%.

Well done Sony.

 

[KorrZ]

Absolutely what I'd expect. It's an enthusiast niche product. It was never advertised as a new system, it's not a PS5.

As such, for the average consumer they're going to go with the cheaper option that plays the same games everytime.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I hope Microsoft doesn't plan on launching Scorpio at a high price point. Consumers don't care.

 

[Curufinwe]

It's funny how many people scoffed at the Slim and said the Pro would sellout like crazy on GAF.

I'd personally go for the Pro if my launch unit fails because of the optical out, but it's always been proven that the cheaper unit will sell more.

Best wishes.

You're going to need to provide some quotes of people saying the Pro would outsell the much cheaper slim in its first 6 months, because that's a crazy prediction.

As for selling out:

https://www.polygon.com/2017/6/5/15728406/ps4-sales-stats

And as with VR, [PS4 Pro sales] have been restricted by our ability to supply the market.”

 

[Curufinwe]

1 in 5 is great considering the average consumer would go for the cheapest unit, as long as it does the job.

Could've been 2 in 5 had Sony not dropped the ball on features like 4K Blu-ray.

Claiming the Pro would have doubled its sales by having 4K Blu-Ray is even crazier.

 

[ajb1888]

I'm a one-in-five

 

[rokkerkory]

I hope Microsoft doesn't plan on launching Scorpio at a high price point. Consumers don't care.

Define 'high price point'?

Scorpio is meant for the hardcore, which means they will pay more for it vs the average consumer.

I fully expect Scorpio to sell maybe 6-1 or even 8-1. But yeah that's for another thread.

edit: Back on topic, 20% is a good #... it means that a bit more than just the h/c is getting into the pro.

 

[dragonyeuw]

It's not terribly surprising. The Slim is the one marketed in all ads and the cost-conscious mass market consumer isn't likely to pay $150 extra for the technical features of the Pro. Personally I want one myself, but not at $399. Drop it to $299 either officially or some kind of holiday bundle and we'll talk.

 

[RedAssedApe]

pretty good for seemingly not spending much advertising dollars on it?

 

[Curufinwe]

I guess people are not liking these half iteration consoles. I think its bad business personally.

The contrast between fantasy and reality is amazing.

It's a great number. The PS4 Pro targets a core gamer niche that owns a 4k set with a significantly higher price point. It's actually quite fantastic.

 

[Ahasverus]

Sounds good, now where's the support?

 

[hanspampel]

Define 'high price point'?

Scorpio is meant for the hardcore, which means they will pay more for it vs the average consumer.

I fully expect Scorpio to sell maybe 6-1 or even 8-1. But yeah that's for another thread.

edit: Back on topic, 20% is a good #... it means that a bit more than just the h/c is getting into the pro.

i expect Scorpio to sell 5-2 (if the console starts at $399)
around double the ratio of Ps4 Pro

but 20% is okay for what the Ps4 Pro is and how it's marketed

 

[Button]

Seems about right. I wish I never got my Pro. 1080p owner.

 

[xxracerxx]

This number seems pretty good to me, especially at the price point and what it offers.

 

[joecanada]

Define 'high price point'?

Scorpio is meant for the hardcore, which means they will pay more for it vs the average consumer.

I fully expect Scorpio to sell maybe 6-1 or even 8-1. But yeah that's for another thread.

edit: Back on topic, 20% is a good #... it means that a bit more than just the h/c is getting into the pro.

I don't think it's off topic to talk about pro consoles in general. you are saying you expect it to sell 13 - 16 % ? why lower than pro? I would expect it to be about similar., don't seen any reason why it should do worse. however they are selling from a lower overall base so it could only be several millions of scorpios in the world in general which is again why you don't alienate your base crowd with a bunch of 'pro only" features.

 

[The Baron Count]

It's a system aimed at owners of 4K tvs and considering how small that group of people still is compared to 1080p tv owners then yeah, those are pretty darn good numbers.

 

[adamsapple]

It's really not mate. Let's not use hyperbole.

I have a Slim and a 4K tv - it looks amazing as it is thanks

Sure it looks amazing, but with Pro it'll look amazing-er on your 4K TV.

 

[fastballspecial]

If it's way ahead of expectations then these games should start shipping with support for it and not sacrifice performance at the cost of bells and whistles.

 

[jroc74]

That would be the Slim. FFS, GAF really is a bubble.

Yup.

If that were the case, they wouldn't have launched a much cheaper Slim SKU 2 months earlier and still continue to put out most game-bundles with the Slim.

Exactly.

The replacement was the Slim, not the Pro...lol.

 

[Curufinwe]

If it's way ahead of expectations then these games should start shipping with support for it and not sacrifice performance at the cost of bells and whistles.

Every Pro thread has to have at least one person grossly misrepresent the number of titles that lack Pro support or run slower at the higher resolution.

 

[Humdinger]

Good numbers. Like others, I trust Mat's take on this (not to mention Sony's own statements).

The part that surprises me is that 40% were PS4 owners, upgrading. I expected that percentage to be much higher -- more in the 70% range. There were a lot more people buying the Pro as their first PS4 system than I expected.

I wonder what the ratio will be for Scorpio. I thought it would be mostly hardcore Xbox guys upgrading -- but that's what I thought about the Pro, and it only turned out to be 40%. Maybe a majority of people will be buying Scorpio as their first Xbox system. Hmm.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I don't agree with MS keeping the S around either for what it's worth. I know they're going to and I understand that it wouldn't make sense for Sony to drop the PS4 given the price disparity that would ensue but I think it's defeating the potential of the new systems to always have them be viewed as optional.

Lol, what did you even think the point of iterative units were? They are not generational leaps, expecting the S and PS4 Slim to be discontinued is probably the most ridiculous thing ever

 

[Elios83]

20% seems a good percentage.
I expect them to be more aggressive later this year with the Pro to better position it against the Scorpio with a cheaper price, bundles and increased production to fully meet demand.

 

[Herp Derpington]

Lol, what did you even think the point of iterative units were? They are not generational leaps, expecting the S and PS4 Slim to be discontinued is probably the most ridiculous thing ever

I think I gave my reasoning for my opinion in my posts on the subject. I don't need to rehash. Good thing is you don't have to agree with it.

 

[Raven77]

To me personally that sounds terrible. How can a "hardware refresh" sustain a longer console life cycle (that was kind of the point, wasn't it? Genuinely asking because I feel like I remember reading this) if only 1 in 5 people buy it? 4 out of 5 PS4 users will be left with old hardware while the generation drags out.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I think I gave my reasoning for my opinion in my posts on the subject. I don't need to rehash. Good thing is you don't have to agree with it.

The issue is that you didn't expect anything reasonable to back that up.

 

[Lionel Richie]

I guess people are not liking these half iteration consoles. I think its bad business personally.

Same here, but I'm biased since I hated iteration consoles from day 1. It's like Mos Def once sang, when you push too hard even numbers got limits.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

20% seems pretty good. I'm still waiting for a bundle or refresh.

 

[Goose_Se7en]

Happy for Sony and I'm glad I own one and my 4K tv.

 

[Alexm92]

Not looking good for Scorpio considering the popularity of PS4.

 

[Curufinwe]

To me personally that sounds terrible..

Let me guess - you are not an NPD analyst like Mat here.

It's a great number. The PS4 Pro targets a core gamer niche that owns a 4k set with a significantly higher price point. It's actually quite fantastic.

 

[get2sammyb]

Not looking good for Scorpio considering the popularity of PS4.

Eh, I don't really agree. Microsoft won't be expecting Scorpio to close any sales gulfs; they'll be looking to profit from their most engaged fans. Due to the lower sales of the Xbox One in general and the greater emphasis they're placing on Scorpio, I'd expect a slightly higher percentage of Xbox One purchases to be Scorpio. But yeah, it's not going to change anything about where this generation is heading.

 

[dead souls]

I think people overestimate the importance of 4K anything.

Truer words have never been typed. With many cable channels still broadcasting in 720p we're years away from 4k being relevant.

 

[eerik9000]

To me personally that sounds terrible. How can a "hardware refresh" sustain a longer console life cycle (that was kind of the point, wasn't it? Genuinely asking because I feel like I remember reading this) if only 1 in 5 people buy it? 4 out of 5 PS4 users will be left with old hardware while the generation drags out.

Sorry, don't understand your logic. Even if 100% Playstations sold were Pros since it launch, there would still be 50 million regular PS4s in the wild. And when did Sony say Pro would make the generation longer?

 

[Herp Derpington]

The issue is that you didn't expect anything reasonable to back that up.

Well seeing as how it was a desire on my part based on how I want these consoles viewed I'm not sure what your issue is. Apparently it rustled your jimmies but it's all good we can move on. I'm done with the conversation.

 

[xenorevlis]

I love my ps4, I have no interest in a Pro. It doesn't offer much over the launch system.

This is objectively false, but the fact that you are content with your vanilla PS4 is the important part here.

I upgraded to Pro for:

More than 2xGPU
Enhanced PSVR experience
5GHz Wi-Fi radio
4K gaming/streaming
1080p recording
1080p60 remote play/streaming

Also, that's an awesome avatar.

 

[spekkeh]

Not really buying the production constraints. Maybe for a very limited time. Much like the PSVR every time I checked (which admittedly is not often but still) it seems to have been readily available.

To me personally that sounds terrible. How can a "hardware refresh" sustain a longer console life cycle (that was kind of the point, wasn't it? Genuinely asking because I feel like I remember reading this) if only 1 in 5 people buy it? 4 out of 5 PS4 users will be left with old hardware while the generation drags out.

1 in 5 is a good number if they upgrade Playstation like mobile phones. So say in 2019 "Playstation 5" comes out, and it's backwards compatible with PS4 Pro, but not OG PS4. At that point you'll see the percentage shift around, with PS4 Pro effectively becoming today's PS4 Slim, and PS5 becoming today's PS4 Pro.

If they don't follow this model, then yeah they might as well not bother with hardware revisions going forward. They'll stand to make more money with extra Slim revisions or colored limited editions. Or accessories like PSVR.

 

[Welfare]

20% is a really good number for Pro and seems like it can be higher if more supply is put on shelves. 60% of Pro purchasers not having a PS4 before is incredible. Were these consumers looking for something more powerful than current gen or were they always planning on buying a PS4 but decided to go with the higher end model? Having a good number of current users upgrading to the higher end model is also a good sign for consumers wanting more out of their games.

PS4 outselling XB1 2:1 in NA is a very bad position for Xbox after the S launched. Even removing Pro sales, Xbox's position is practically back to pre S sales. Microsoft needs to make sure that Scorpio is both priced well ($399) and enough supply ready because these mid gen upgrades have more selling power in them then MS or Sony predicted. 3:1 in Europe is smaller than I thought, was expecting more 4:1 but we get so little data from that region maybe XB1 has been performing better than relative to previous years. I'd guess WW PS4 has been outselling XB1 anywhere between 2.8:1 and 3:1.

 

[jroc74]

Its kinda funny some of the sentiment I see here about the Pro.

Its like luxury cars vs the everyday car. List of 2016 best cars sold, 25 on the list...I dont see any of the luxury models on that list....

That doesnt make them failures.

PC parts. Same thing. You have cpu's, graphics cards, cases, etc targeting the niche crowd and those targeting everyone else.

Minus Apple, smartphones... same thing. The majority of Android sales is the cheaper phones.

 

[Raven77]

Sorry, don't understand your logic. Even if 100% Playstations sold were Pros since it launch, there would still be 50 million regular PS4s in the wild. And when did Sony say Pro would make the generation longer?

Yeah I don't know, I thought I remembered reading that Sony and Microsoft were releasing these mid gen refreshes in order to extend the length of the current gen. If that is not the case then the 1 in 5 number isn't too bad. My point is that IF that is their purpose and this gen is going to be several years longer than planned because of the Pro / Scorpio, the owners of non upgraded versions of these systems are stuck with a longer console lifecyle before getting the PS5 / Xbox whatever.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Yeah I don't know, I thought I remembered reading that Sony and Microsoft were releasing these mid gen refreshes in order to extend the length of the current gen. If that is not the case then the 1 in 5 number isn't too bad. My point is that IF that is their purpose and this gen is going to be several years longer than planned because of the Pro / Scorpio, the owners of non upgraded versions of these systems are stuck with a longer console lifecyle before getting the PS5 / Xbox whatever.

i don't think they ever said they are doing this to extend the cycle. its to target the customers who want more power available to them but don't want to go PC. those people are generally more willing to spend their dollars on upgrades sooner and more frequently than the usual console buyers who make one purchase per generation. basically they don't want to leave money on the table.

i'm willing to bet that more pro purchases are upgrades as opposed to brand new ps4 owners. (edit: according to jim ryan its 40% so i stand corrected )

 

[Agnostic Priest]

i expect Scorpio to sell 5-2 (if the console starts at $399)
around double the ratio of Ps4 Pro

but 20% is okay for what the Ps4 Pro is and how it's marketed

Scorpio has a bit of a different advantage, besides being more powerful. A LOT of people switched to Sony this generation. If the Scorpio is executed properly (price point, power, future games), Microsoft could potentially persuade a lot of PS4 owners to switch back to Xbox,

Where the PS4 is already the dominant console, by a fairly large margin. So you are going to get the core gamers to upgrade, but Sony isn't going to really going to attract the smaller XB1 install base to switch to PS4.

I feel that Microsoft has the chance to really knock it out of the park, but everything has to be perfect. I remember seeing Phil state that they are moving away from marketing deals, so I am really hoping they are funneling that money into creating new IPs.

 

[shouamabane]

PS4 Pro is nice. But for me, a $500 or $600 version would be much more compelling.

 

[fastballspecial]

Every Pro thread has to have at least one person grossly misrepresent the number of titles that lack Pro support or run slower at the higher resolution.

I wasn't trying represent anything, really. Just disappointed a lot of games to release since it dropped don't have support.

I'm almost done with Prey and mediocre Pro support just dropped last week. Almost a month after release.

 

[okita]

It's way less than i thought and seems bad to me. If you consider there is an extra development cost for the devs.

What's the incentive for a third party make improvements over the base console version of a game with these numbers? seems like a waste of money , because it won't be a huge improvement in sales over the base console. I'm missing / mistaking something here?