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[braimuge]

Without question. Microsoft have done an incredible job.

I'm just surprised the gap isn't a little larger.

Don't be surprised, the gap should have been larger. I'm actually disappointed, the 360 is such an awesome console ( my ps3 too), at the price it's being displayed, it should have been atleast around 40 million total. The Wii is doing an amazing job, the wii brandname is a household name now, like the Playstation was. But in the sense that the Wii has introduced new bases in the console market. A large portion of the previous total userbase for the market, consists largerly of a group now, not having the funds to penetrate the console platform. I mean young gamers, who aren't very hardcore, but still prefer a PS3 or a 360 over the Wii anyday. I doubt that a large portion of Wii users would consider the Wii the same as an Xbox360 or a Playstation 3. Because it's being marketed differently.

Anyway,it will truly be interesting to see what a Price Cut does for the Playstation 3 in this period. When the 60 GB got it's price cut here in Europe ( that's when I purchased mine). The sales jumped 113% in a week or 2. There is no doubt that the Playstation 3 is quite Price Elastic, Sony probably knows this, we just don't know how they'll put it to good use. Also, whether we aknowledge it or not, HD adaptation is of a surety.

 

[StuBurns]

When the 60 GB got it's price cut here in Europe ( that's when I purchased mine). The sales jumped 113% in a week or 2.

Me too, but I brought it because I wanted PS2 and SACD support, it had nothing to do with the price.

I think had the PS3 hit the same day as the 360 and had the same price the whole time that it would have a larger install base, but I'm not sure how big of an issue the cost is. The Wii costs more than the 360 and sells better. Most people don't seem to care about the value for money.

 

[Black-Wind]

. . . Do people see this as some kind of good thing or is gaf just being funny?

 

[suffah]

So wait, these are sold numbers now? I thought the ~21 million was thrown around before but with only something ludicrous like ~12 actually sold?

No way there's 9 million sitting in retail channels.

. . . Do people see this as some kind of good thing or is gaf just being funny?

Sadly, they aren't being funny.

 

[braimuge]

. . . Do people see this as some kind of good thing or is gaf just being funny?

Sadly the answer is in your question...

 

[ymmv]

The power of perception:

MS sells 19 million 360 consoles after 29 months on the market: Gaf response YAY!! WOOT!! 360 OWNZ!!

Sony sells 21 million PS3s after 27 months: LOLZ ... PS3 FAIL

 

[dfyb]

new sales milestones are bad now? did you same people shit on 360 when it reached this milestone in summer08?

 

[DieH@rd]

Gamecube LTD surpassed in a little over 2 years, about 3 million behind the original Xbox. I think I need a new tag.

:lol you've earned it!

 

[Zombie James]

:lol you've earned it!

ok?

 

[AdventureRacing]

MS sells 19 million 360 consoles after 29 months on the market: Gaf response YAY!! WOOT!! 360 OWNZ!!

Sony sells 21 million PS3s after 27 months: LOLZ ... PS3 FAIL

Consoles don't exist in a vacuum. Selling slightly better than the 360 at the same point in the life cycle is irrelevant. The PS3 is competing with the 360 now not a year ago.

new sales milestones are bad now? did you same people shit on 360 when it reached this milestone in summer08?

In a way you answered your own question. 360 reached this milestone long before the PS3 did.

Also people are comparing it to their performances last gen.

 

[suffah]

The power of perception:

MS sells 19 million 360 consoles after 29 months on the market: Gaf response YAY!! WOOT!! 360 OWNZ!!

Sony sells 21 million PS3s after 27 months: LOLZ ... PS3 FAIL

How about the other side of the "perception"?

PS2: Industry domination
PS3: Last place

Both sides will be forever spinning their side of the story.

 

[FightyF]

new sales milestones are bad now? did you same people shit on 360 when it reached this milestone in summer08?

Most people did because MS had an uphill climb and were the underdog. Just as people proclaimed the PS2's victory over the Dreamcast before the PS2's launch, people did the same for the PS3.

I can't find the thread, but I think it was 2004 or early 2005 when it was revealed that some developers were looking to make titles multiplatform, rather than just for the PS3. I argued that the PS3 and 360's userbase would be neck and neck Worldwide until 2010 or 2011, when the PS3 would then lead, and because of that multiplat development made sense.

The backlash I created was incredible. I can't remember having any backer in that argument and it went on for pages. It was me vs. GAF for a few pages of that thread (I wish I could find it).

But yeah, it was a given that VF5 was going to be PS3 exclusive, Tekken 6, Final Fantasy 13....and this was so simply because everyone thought that the PS3 wouldn't just beat out the 360, but dominate it in similar fashion to how the PS2 dominated the rest.

And so when the 360 hit 19 million, and when it surpassed the original Xbox's numbers, I think people were happy because in many ways it was stronger than the console, and had more marketshare.

With the Wii out, and also with MS's hardware issues (not only did they ignore it, but they mishandled it when they finally acknowledged it)...the 360 is frankly underperforming. I think if MS addressed the hardware issue properly, there'd be an easy 5 million more owners Worldwide. I know that I recommended the PS3 over the 360 to many of my friends, who did like Halo, but also games like Final Fantasy and Tekken. While they were keen on a cheaper 360 I convinced them that the shoddy hardware might bite them in the ass. Now, they're mad at me considering that FF and Tekken are hitting the 360, but the point is those were lost sales.

As far as Sony's announcement is concerned, that's great, but I find the timing interesting.

It's the eve of Killzone 2's launch. A game, which I think, is a system seller. So that number could jump up in the North American and European markets. So maybe Sony wants to do a before/after sort of thing.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

The power of perception:

MS sells 19 million 360 consoles after 29 months on the market: Gaf response YAY!! WOOT!! 360 OWNZ!!

Sony sells 21 million PS3s after 27 months: LOLZ ... PS3 FAIL

21 Million for the Playstation brand is just not the same as 19 million for the Xbox brand. Microsoft will surpass the numbers of their predecessor, Sony will never get close to PS1 or PS2 numbers with their third console, the mighty have fallen, that's why the PS3 is considered a failure in terms of sales by the same people who cheer for the 360 numbers.

Everyone would have laughed their asses off if someone predicted such numbers in 2005 or even 2006.

That being said: I'm glad it's doing relatively ok (thanks to brand recognition), it's a good console, Sony still could get close to the 360 by the end of the gen, but that's just about it IMO.

 

[freddy]

It's a new race. Praising improvement is fine for the junior leagues.

 

[antiloop]

Once again people only see what they want to see.

Comparing what they want to compare.

This is sales age.

 

[dfyb]

i'll never understand the "PS2 was a mega-success, why isn't PS3 doing the same?" crowd. all bets were off when sony unvieled $599 and wii became nothing short of a phenomenon.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Time for a price drop and get my ps3

 

[Miburou]

The problem is that the gap between the PS3 and 360 was shrinking up until the 360's price drop in September of last year, where it started widening again. My prediction is a worldwide userbase of 40M vs 30M in favor of the 360 by the end of the year.

 

[szaromir]

As of Dec 31 2006 there were 1.7M PS3s shipped and 10.4M of 360s. Two years later the difference was 7.2M units. At this rate PS3 will catch up to 360 in 12 years...

 

[StuBurns]

i'll never understand the "PS2 was a mega-success, why isn't PS3 doing the same?" crowd. all bets were off when sony unvieled $599.

Exactly.

The day they announced the price, was like finding that little hole in the death star. It went from a weapon of mass destruction to a shattered belt of... Forget that analogy, it's falling to shit. The PS3 was is over priced, even at a massive loss on each system.

People don't care about the technology, I don't care if they include an atomic clock in the PS4. It's not a feature I want and if they want to give it me, they better not charge me for it.

 

[Snipes424]

21 Million for the Playstation brand is just not the same as 19 million for the Xbox brand. Microsoft will surpass the numbers of their predecessor, Sony will never get close to PS1 or PS2 numbers with their third console, the mighty have fallen, that's why the PS3 is considered a failure in terms of sales by the same people who cheer for the 360 numbers.

Everyone would have laughed their asses off if someone predicted such numbers in 2005 or even 2006.

That being said: I'm glad it's doing relatively ok (thanks to brand recognition), it's a good console, Sony still could get close to the 360 by the end of the gen, but that's just about it IMO.

But see, the PS1 or PS2 was never as expensive as the PS3, I really do believe that this all comes down to price. Yes brand recognition is great and all but it's not everything. I'll use the iphone as an example, say iphone 2 comes out tomorrow and apple wants $700 for it. Well I love the iphone and I love apple, but I will not spend $700 for a phone no matter how many features it has. I think people have the same mentality about the PS3. They like the brand but $600 is just too damn much for a console and maybe $400 is too.

I think things will get more interesting once the price goes down for the PS3, I'm not saying it's going to magically outsell the wii or 360, I'm just saying that who knows what will happen.

 

[CurlySaysX]

90% of people who bought PS2s used them exclusively for watching DVDs, and 5% were replacements for broken systems. Everyone knows this.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

No way there's 9 million sitting in retail channels.

There plainly are. The 28 mill for 360 being thrown around in this thread is sold to retailers too.

 

[obaidr]

But see, the PS1 or PS2 was never as expensive as the PS3, I really do believe that this all comes down to price. Yes brand recognition is great and all but it's not everything. I'll use the iphone as an example, say iphone 2 comes out tomorrow and apple wants $700 for it. Well I love the iphone and I love apple, but I will not spend $700 for a phone no matter how many features it has. I think people have the same mentality about the PS3. They like the brand but $600 is just too damn much for a console and maybe $400 is too.

I think things will get more interesting once the price goes down for the PS3, I'm not saying it's going to magically outsell the wii or 360, I'm just saying that who knows what will happen.

well with the current exchange rate the iPhone 3G costs a little bit more then 700$ in Europe.

733,4208 U.S. dollars

 

[DarkMehm]

There plainly are. The 28 mill for 360 being thrown around in this thread is sold to retailers too.

You really believe PS3 is at 12m sold-through? Only the UK, US and Japan already adds up to that. A good estimate would be ~19m right now.

 

[StuBurns]

well with the current exchange rate the iPhone 3G costs a little bit more then 700$ in Europe.

733,4208 U.S. dollars

What kind of moron is buying Pay&Go iPhones?

Mine was £140 for the 16GB model, I know loads of people who have iPhones, they're all on contract.

 

[Mantorok]

Wow that's really impressive given the price and competition, I never expected it to be that high. What are the Wii/360 numbers currently at?

I hoped MS would take Sony this gen because the console is amazing, especially for the money, I really don't think (price-wise) Sony deserve to beat MS.

 

[Black-Wind]

Sadly, they aren't being funny.

Gotta to be effing kinding me . . . >_>

GCN was a fat fail on Nintendo's part yet the PS3 STILL isn't like it to be exact. "It's impressive because of the price point . . ." I dissagree.

The GCN had such lil 3rd party support it basically confirmed that Nintendo could stay making money hand over fist by simply selling their produces to Nintendo fans alone where as PS3 has (by a series of events ranging from early expectations/ HD game cost sky rocketing/ being simular to the 360) gotten many mult-plateform HD 3rd party games. The GCN followed after the N64's install base of like 33mill where as the PS3 came off the effing PS2. GCN brang about profit where as the PS3 is sucking Sony's Game Moneyz dry faster than a crack whore looking for a extra tip.

The PS3, in sells, will be the GC of this gen . . . but they are not alike and I see no reason to spin these sells given how, in recent months, it's gotten even shittier sells. Don't spin shit . . . just play your games, be happy and hope for a PS4 (and spin the hell out of it once Sony goes motion control which only 2x the power).

 

[Son of Godzilla]

You really believe PS3 is at 12m sold-through? Only the UK, US and Japan already adds up to that. A good estimate would be ~19m right now.

No I don't, that was just a number. The disregard for PR is what I was emphasizing.

 

[Trailblazer]

i'll never understand the "PS2 was a mega-success, why isn't PS3 doing the same?" crowd. all bets were off when sony unvieled $599 and wii became nothing short of a phenomenon.

Actually the bets where off as soon as Sony decided on a new hardware architecture, and to build and on-line interface and network from scratch.

I've heard here time and time again that Sony somehow had a advantage this Gen because of the success of the PS2. This couldn't be any less true. The fact of the matter if Sony came into this Gen at a great disadvantage compared to MS and Nintendo. Coming into this Gen Sony had to start from scratch from a hardware perspective and a software perspective. Not to mention having to build the foundation for PSN

In comparison

The ground work for Live network was cemented with the original Xbox and more importantly the 360's tool chain and development libraries have matured for years in the form of DX.

The Wii, hardware and software wise basically the same as the Game cube. Where most of the R&D went into the Wiimote and its software The on-line infrastructure is laughable at best.

The PS2 success has nothing to do with the PS3 success of lack there of. Just as the Gamecube dose nothing for the Wii. From a development and infrastructure point of view Sony could carry NOTHING over from the previous Gen unlike the Nintendo and MS.


Edit for spelling.

 

[Jocchan]

Actually the bets where off as soon as Sony decided on a new hardware architecture, and to build and on-line interface and network from scratch.

I've heard here time and time again that Sony somehow had a advantage this Gen because of the success of the PS2. This couldn't be any less true. The fact of the matter if Sony came into this Gen at a great disadvantage compared to MS and Nintindo. Coming into this Gen Sony had to start from scratch from a hardware perspective and a software perspective. Not to mention having to build the foundation for PSN

In comparison

The ground work for Live network was cemented with the original Xbox and more importantly the 360's tool chain and development libraries have matured for years in the form of DX.

The Wii, hardware and software wise basically the same as the Game cube. Where most of the R&D went into the Wiimote and its software The on-line infrastructure is laughable at best.

The PS2 success has nothing to do with the PS3 success of lack there of. Just as the Gamecube dose nothing for the Wii. From a development and infrastructure point of view Sony could carry NOTHING over from the previous Gen unlike the Nintindo and MS.

Whatever, but I still can't believe they're losing to Nintindo.

 

[szaromir]

Actually the bets where off as soon as Sony decided on a new hardware architecture, and to build and on-line interface and network from scratch.

I've heard here time and time again that Sony somehow had a advantage this Gen because of the success of the PS2. This couldn't be any less true. The fact of the matter if Sony came into this Gen at a great disadvantage compared to MS and Nintendo.

Ummm no far from it. In the beginning of the generation, Sony had two huge advantages over their competition - brand recognition and 3rd party publishers full support from day one, whereas Microsoft and Nintendo had to slowly convince publishers to make games for 360 and Wii (some were obviously already on board).

 

[Dante]

Niiiice

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Wow that's really impressive given the price and competition, I never expected it to be that high. What are the Wii/360 numbers currently at?

 

[obaidr]

What kind of moron is buying Pay&Go iPhones?

Mine was £140 for the 16GB model, I know loads of people who have iPhones, they're all on contract.

and how much do you pay for you contract on a monthly basis? Lets say you pay 15 GPB pounds for two years which is 360 GBP. Plus the 140 GBP you already paid. This makes the iPhone exactly 500 GPB which 562,422118 Euro and 722.15 U.S. dollars today. So what kind of moron whould pay so much money for an iPhone?

 

[StuBurns]

and how much do you pay for you contract on a monthly basis? Lets say you pay 15 GPB pounds for two years which is 360 GBP. Plus the 140 GBP you already paid. This makes the iPhone exactly 500 GPB which 562,422118 Euro and 722.15 U.S. dollars today. So what kind of moron whould pay so much money for an iPhone?

That includes all calls though. If you're on Pay&Go you still have to pay to use the phone.

So you'd pay £391.27 for the iPhone itself, then have to put money on it all the time. Probably more than I pay in line rental. I'd cost way more.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ummm no far from it. In the beginning of the generation, Sony had two huge advantages over their competition - brand recognition and 3rd party publishers full support from day one, whereas Microsoft and Nintendo had to slowly convince publishers to make games for 360 and Wii (some were obviously already on board).

Ummm no right back at you. MS had nothing but third party support from the get go and it's as a Brand, i would argue at lest in NA the Xbox was on par with the Playstation the the 360's launch.

And you don't get much bigger Nintendo's brand recognition. Nintendo dispite being the leader this Gen still struggles with Third parties.

Even if you were to successfully argue that Sony were superior in these areas.
Compared with the hardware and software challenges of launching a new console,
Brand recognition means jack squat

 

[Dante]

WTF is that real??

:lol

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Ummm no far from it. In the beginning of the generation, Sony had two huge advantages over their competition - brand recognition and 3rd party publishers full support from day one, whereas Microsoft and Nintendo had to slowly convince publishers to make games for 360 and Wii (some were obviously already on board).

Pretty much. Sony had great advantages in the beginning. Most 3rd parties just expected the PS3 will have the same success like the predecessors. I think Sony had the greatest advantage, thanks to their history, unfortunately they kinda blew it.

But see, the PS1 or PS2 was never as expensive as the PS3, I really do believe that this all comes down to price. Yes brand recognition is great and all but it's not everything. I'll use the iphone as an example, say iphone 2 comes out tomorrow and apple wants $700 for it. Well I love the iphone and I love apple, but I will not spend $700 for a phone no matter how many features it has. I think people have the same mentality about the PS3. They like the brand but $600 is just too damn much for a console and maybe $400 is too.

I think things will get more interesting once the price goes down for the PS3, I'm not saying it's going to magically outsell the wii or 360, I'm just saying that who knows what will happen.

Well correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the GC the cheapest console in the last generation (or at least for a certain time)? The 360 Arcade is also the cheapest now, but it just shows, price isn't really everything because Wii is still the shit.

Also, some people would buy a iphone even at 1000$ price points, just like people bought the PS3 for 599$. Fortunately for us those are the minority, or maybe we would have seen 999$ consoles in the future...

 

[slider]

Ummm no right back at you. MS had nothing but third party support from the get go and it's as a Brand, i would argue at lest in NA the Xbox was on par with the Playstation the the 360's launch.

And you don't get much bigger Nintendo's brand recognition. Nintendo dispite being the leader this Gen still struggles with Third parties.

Even if you were to successfully argue that Sony were superior in these areas.
Compared with the hardware and software challenges of launching a new console,
Brand recognition means jack squat

All valid points but issues for Sony as a corporation aren't the same thing as issues for a consumer.

 

[obaidr]

That includes all calls though. If you're on Pay&Go you still have to pay to use the phone.

do you really get a flatrate for that price? That would be huge. In germany you pay a basic fee about 15-25 € for a iPhone contract and you pay for every call/SMS/MByte as well. They usually give you some discounts like 100 free sms per months but that doesn't really count.

I got my iPhone from US when Europa was for 1,65 and for that reason i paid just a little for my iPhone. Since i am a student i get a special offer. I pay 5€ a month for a SMS flatrate and i have no basic fee. But i need to pay for every minute i call.

 

[StuBurns]

do you really get a flatrate for that price? That would be huge. In germany you pay a basic fee about 15-25 € for a iPhone contract and you pay for every call/SMS/MByte as well. They usually give you some discounts like 100 free sms per months but that doesn't really count.

I got my iPhone from US when Europa was for 1,65 and for that reason i paid just a little for my iPhone. Since i am a student i get a special offer. I pay 5€ a month for a SMS flatrate and i have no basic fee. But i need to pay for every minute i call.

No, I pay £35 a month. My point was I paid that anyway. I have to have a phone. The contract was exactly the same. So I paid a one off cost of £140 for the 16GB model iPhone.

I guess the contracts work differently over there.

But lets not side track the thread with boring phone talk.

 

[Trailblazer]

All valid points but issues for Sony as a corporation aren't the same thing as issues for a consumer.

Not saying they are, I was just responding to the ideal that because of the PS2 Sony had all the advantages in the world coming into this Gen. I was just pointing out the huge disadvantages they had coming into this gen, form and Hardware and software development point of view.

 

[Haunted]

I don't know whether to congratulate Sony (going by expectations mid-07) or to pity Sony (going by expectations mid-06 or looking at any quarterly report since then).

Gamecube LTD surpassed in a little over 2 years, about 3 million behind the original Xbox. I think I need a new tag.

That tag has never been particularly accurate as far as I'm concerned.

Spoiler

GC made money.

Eh, as long as it gets more games I like to play, I'm fine with it trailing in sales. And in that respect at least, it's truly like the Gamecube last gen. >_<

 

[slider]

Not saying they are, I was just responding to the ideal that because of the PS2 Sony had all the advantages in the world coming into this Gen. I was just pointing out the huge disadvantages they had coming into this gen, form and Hardware and software development point of view.

Cool and yeah of course they did.

But you originally responded to this quote...

i'll never understand the "PS2 was a mega-success, why isn't PS3 doing the same?" crowd. all bets were off when sony unvieled $599 and wii became nothing short of a phenomenon.

So yeah, two distinct but related issues(!). Apart from really early in this generation I don't think 3rd party support has been a major issue for Sony. Quality of said 3rd party products was and remains an issue and that'll directly translate to the consumer.

But yeah, now I'm talking about nothing.

Cheers.

 

[jax (old)]

The power of perception:

MS sells 19 million 360 consoles after 29 months on the market: Gaf response YAY!! WOOT!! 360 OWNZ!!

Sony sells 21 million PS3s after 27 months: LOLZ ... PS3 FAIL

thanks for posting that. Totally shows the haters up.

 

[Dante]

Wait? Can anyone answer m above question? Is that chart accurate?

EDIT:

OMG at YMMV post WOW, I generally don't follow sales age posts, but :lol Yo gotta be kidding me.....

 

[Haunted]

Wait? Can anyone answer m above question? Is that chart accurate?

Josh's charts are generally trustworthy, yes.

 

[szaromir]

Wait? Can anyone answer m above question? Is that chart accurate?

It is. Why wouldn't it?

 

[Dead Man]

Sales-age never ceases to amaze me. If total sold at any given time is the criteria, why would a console maker launch more then 2-3 months after a competitor? The gap is very difficult to make up. If the goal is to sell some units, make some profit eventually, and have the platform supported, the launch date is not so important.

Really, the way some of you are on here, Sony lost a week after the 360 launched. "It's all about sales right now! x > 0 = MS WINS!"

Yep, PS3 is way behind on total sales. It will probably never catch up to the 360. So it will be last this generation. So if that is all you look at then I guess it is already a failure. Maybe that is the way the manufacturers look at it, but I doubt it.