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[StuBurns]

To be fair, even IF the PS3 had released without a Blu-ray drive and at a cheaper price. I have a feeling it would still be selling a lot less than the Wii, which seems to have tapped in to a completely different kind of market. But who knows really.

He said the HD console war. The Wii isn't in it.

What that graph shows is Sony's brand loyalty really does exist and is strong. They could have had PS3's with BluRay film playback and had a standard DVD version. Got it out a few months earlier and at the same price as the 360 Premium. I think had they done that, they'd be second no question.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

:lol Brilliant, so not only has the PS3 sold more in the same time period, it did it being priced much higher than the competition (360).

"oh b b b but errrr it's still failz!!11! compared to PS2 !!1!!1"

lol, yeah ok, you keep telling youself that if it makes you feel better.

It's not to makes us feel better or anything, PS3 is doing bad? Yes, they're doing that bad? No.
But the fact remains, Sony was the market leader, now they are on the last one. That's the failure, not the PS3 sales itself. In contrast, MS sold a few more than 22+ millions of XBOX, now they are 30+ with still 2 years or more of generation to look forward, and they obviously get a chunk of the PS3 market in US and make a nice step to enter in a difficult market like the Japanese one, that's a success whatever you look at it.

But you can keep the "ohhhh PS3 sold more than Xbox360 in the same time!!1! lolololalelilulolol PS3 wins, owned!!11! go cry Xbots!1!1!!" argument. I won't stop you.

 

[skulpt]

As much as I love my BR collection and that my PS3 is a BR player, I can't help but think what the PS3 would be selling now if they had just used a $15 DVD player from the start, but bumped the memory from the 256+256 to something like 512+256 or even 512x512mb. I think the games visuals would have been so dramatically better from the start, the PS3 even with the price tag it has now would be selling a lot more. Imagine if GG had had like 1GB of memory to work with for KZ2...

But as others are mentioning, the PS3 is on the same pace if not better than the 360 at this stage. It was concerning seeing their December numbers drop a bit, but a PC soon along with people seeing KZ2, God of War 3 and Uncharted 2 should make the PS3 at the very least sell as well as in 2009 compared to what the 360 did in 2008. That's all I really care about. Just sell enough to make devs take notice and make games for the PS3.

 

[nib95]

He said the HD console war. The Wii isn't in it.

What that graph shows is Sony's brand loyalty really does exist and is strong. They could have had PS3's with BluRay film playback and had a standard DVD version. Got it out a few months earlier and at the same price as the 360 Premium. I think had they done that, they'd be second no question.

Perhaps, but I wonder if Sony prefer having a HD console lead or winning the HD media war. Sony are probably planning for, or hoping they can still somehow overtake the 360 by generation end. It's not likely, but it's still possible. Also, you can't just dump the PS3's current sales (in a positive light) on just brand loyalty. The console is feature rich and it does have a very good arsenal of games (which has been improving over previous years year on year). This generation has certainly been un-predictable. I wonder if that trend will continue.

 

[lowrider007]

But you can keep the "ohhhh PS3 sold more than Xbox360 in the same time!!1! lolololalelilulolol PS3 wins, owned!!11! go cry Xbots!1!1!!" argument. I won't stop you.

I'll decide whether or not it's a failure after it's had it's innings, If I had to make a guess though I'd say the PS3 will probably stay in last place but will end up turning out quite a nice bit of profit for Sony in the end, and considering the price point of the console and it's late entry into the market place, and their win in the HD format war I'd say Sony will be heralding the PS3 a success tbh, not as successful as their previous consoles, but a success nevertheless.

And no, I'm not saying PS3 wins!!1!!!! just becuase it sold more in the same period, I'm just saying that it isn't flailing.

 

[squatingyeti]

all of you quoting that statement about the 360 sales at X months compared to PS3 sales at X month DO realize these systems aren't in a vacuum, right? If that makes you feel good and comforts you about your purchase, go right ahead. Pretend they launched at the same time, align launch dates, say it's doing better comparatively, and sleep easy.

The problem, and the reality, is the gap is widening now in REAL sales. The launches aren't synced, they do not exist in a vacuum. If the gap keeps widening, you do realize will be looking at this "synced launch dates" in a couple of years and the PS3 will have fallen behind, just like REAL sales, outside your make believe vacuum, are indicating.

 

[braimuge]

all of you quoting that statement about the 360 sales at X months compared to PS3 sales at X month DO realize these systems aren't in a vacuum, right? If that makes you feel good and comforts you about your purchase, go right ahead. Pretend they launched at the same time, align launch dates, say it's doing better comparatively, and sleep easy.

The problem, and the reality, is the gap is widening now in REAL sales. The launches aren't synced, they do not exist in a vacuum. If the gap keeps widening, you do realize will be looking at this "synced launch dates" in a couple of years and the PS3 will have fallen behind, just like REAL sales, outside your make believe vacuum, are indicating.

That's not what they are doing. That's exactly the opposite. People who claim the PS3 as a failure have this mindset, that's what they were pointing out.

 

[matticus]

I don't know whether to congratulate Sony (going by expectations mid-07) or to pity Sony (going by expectations mid-06 or looking at any quarterly report since then).



That tag has never been particularly accurate as far as I'm concerned.

Spoiler

GC made money.

Eh, as long as it gets more games I like to play, I'm fine with it trailing in sales. And in that respect at least, it's truly like the Gamecube last gen. >_<

PS3 will make Sony a lot of money in the long run, if only for helping Blu-Ray win the format war.

 

[StuBurns]

That's not what they are doing. That's exactly the opposite. People who claim the PS3 as a failure have this mindset, that's what they were pointing out.

Yeah, it's like saying the Dreamcast was 8 million units ahead of the PS2.

The launch date is irrelevant. It's how long the machine will sell for that matters.

 

[Kilrogg]

all of you quoting that statement about the 360 sales at X months compared to PS3 sales at X month DO realize these systems aren't in a vacuum, right? If that makes you feel good and comforts you about your purchase, go right ahead. Pretend they launched at the same time, align launch dates, say it's doing better comparatively, and sleep easy.

The problem, and the reality, is the gap is widening now in REAL sales. The launches aren't synced, they do not exist in a vacuum. If the gap keeps widening, you do realize will be looking at this "synced launch dates" in a couple of years and the PS3 will have fallen behind, just like REAL sales, outside your make believe vacuum, are indicating.

If anything, what that comparison brings to light is how Microsoft's "success" with the 360 is overblown. I don't believe the PS3 will close the gap with the 360 (it will widen), but seeing Microsoft reap so few rewards despite the billions of dollars they poured into the XBox franchise borders on absurdity. They really are the one company which can force its way to a market through the sheer power of money, but even so, they don't gain that much from that strategy... Well, apart from scaring Sony shitless, which was their original intent I guess.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I'll decide whether or not it's a failure after it's had it's innings, If I had to make a guess though I'd say the PS3 will probably stay in last place but will end up turning out quite a nice bit of profit for Sony in the end, and considering the price point of the console and it's late entry into the market place, and their win in the HD format war I'd say Sony will be heralding the PS3 a success tbh, not as successful as their previous consoles, but a success nevertheless.

And no, I'm not saying PS3 wins!!1!!!! just becuase it sold more in the same period, I'm just saying that it isn't flailing.

"Probably" "I guess", that's nice, but right now Sony lost a lot of money with PS3 and Blu Ray it's pretty much irrelevant right now, and even Sony CEO recognized that difficult times are ahead, maybe PS3 will end turning a nice profit to Sony, but still will not reach the PS2 and Psone numbers, and they lost the privilage position of market leader for their next console.

I'm not saying PS3 it's a failure, as a console and on sales, but I would say it failed to reach the succes everyone and even Sony was expecting.

 

[Defuser]

I'm not saying PS3 it's a failure, as a console and on sales, but I would say it failed to reach the succes everyone and even Sony was expecting.

Sony expected success?:lol They knew they gonna have rough shit the moment they announced $600

 

[commish]

I usually don't' give two shits about sales, but over 21 million is pretty impressive, all things considered.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Sony expected success?:lol They knew they gonna have rough shit the moment they announced $600

Well going back to Kuta words by that time, yeah, they expected it or they were in a denial state.

With a 600 dollar price tag I wonder what kind of numbers Sony was expecting. The one disappointing thing about PS3 sales is on the software side. It's a shame Sony's first party offerings sell nowhere near as well as treesitty exclusvies.

Well, in the Sony financial results they show they were doing pretty well in SW side, if I remember correctly.

 

[jett]

I'm not saying PS3 it's a failure, as a console and on sales, but I would say it failed to reach the succes everyone and even Sony was expecting.

With a 600 dollar price tag I wonder what kind of numbers Sony was expecting. The one disappointing thing about PS3 sales is on the software side. It's a shame Sony's first party offerings sell nowhere near as well as treesitty exclusvies.

 

[szaromir]

Sony expected success?:lol They knew they gonna have rough shit the moment they announced $600

No, they were quite delusional back then. "People will get second job for PS3" or "we'd sell 5M PS3s without a single game on the market".

 

[D4Danger]

Sony expected success?:lol They knew they gonna have rough shit the moment they announced $600

:lol

Did you sleep through 2006?

 

[Fenderputty]

He said the HD console war. The Wii isn't in it.

What that graph shows is Sony's brand loyalty really does exist and is strong. They could have had PS3's with BluRay film playback and had a standard DVD version. Got it out a few months earlier and at the same price as the 360 Premium. I think had they done that, they'd be second no question.

That wouldn't have won them the HD format war though. Sony isn't doing horrible. They're not doing as well as they wanted though. The real question should be, are they happy with giving up this much dominance in the video game market simply to get Blu Ray up and running as the standard.

 

[womfalcs3]

As much as I love my BR collection and that my PS3 is a BR player, I can't help but think what the PS3 would be selling now if they had just used a $15 DVD player from the start, but bumped the memory from the 256+256 to something like 512+256 or even 512x512mb. I think the games visuals would have been so dramatically better from the start, the PS3 even with the price tag it has now would be selling a lot more. Imagine if GG had had like 1GB of memory to work with for KZ2...

But as others are mentioning, the PS3 is on the same pace if not better than the 360 at this stage. It was concerning seeing their December numbers drop a bit, but a PC soon along with people seeing KZ2, God of War 3 and Uncharted 2 should make the PS3 at the very least sell as well as in 2009 compared to what the 360 did in 2008. That's all I really care about. Just sell enough to make devs take notice and make games for the PS3.

Do we know how much blu-ray is bringing in revenue for the company? That would determine if it was worthy to have it in PS3, which ultimately led to the success of the format.

 

[lowlylowlycook]

i'm doing as well as my competition = good.
i'm not doing as well as i did last time = bad

Let me fix that for you.

I'm not doing half as well as my competition (Wii) =bad.
I'm not doing half as well as I did last time (PS2) = bad.
I'm losing crazy money even though industry is growing = bad bad bad.

 

[StuBurns]

That wouldn't have won them the HD format war though.

So you think had the PS3 launched the same day as the 360 at the same price, the same spec as it is now minus the BD drive, it would actually sell less? I think you're high.

 

[Majmun]

Let me fix that for you.

I'm not doing half as well as my competition (Wii) =bad.
I'm not doing half as well as I did last time (PS2) = bad.
I'm losing crazy money even though industry is growing = bad bad bad.

I'm making Second happy by releasing good games = Good good good

I don't care if they lose money. As long as I'm happy with the product I've bought!

 

[harSon]

If anything, what that comparison brings to light is how Microsoft's "success" with the 360 is overblown. I don't believe the PS3 will close the gap with the 360 (it will widen), but seeing Microsoft reap so few rewards despite the billions of dollars they poured into the XBox franchise borders on absurdity. They really are the one company which can force its way to a market through the sheer power of money, but even so, they don't gain that much from that strategy... Well, apart from scaring Sony shitless, which was their original intent I guess.

It's a matter of expectations. Microsoft or Nintendo weren't the kings of gaming for the last two generations, nor did they sell well over 200 million consoles in a little over a decade. The 360 is the successor to a sub 25 million console seller and money sink while the Playstation 3 is following the single most successful gaming platform of all time. It's not surprising to believe that expectations would be higher for Sony while significantly lower for Microsoft.

It's like being surprised that a 2 time winning Super Bowl team (consecutively) receives more criticism for being average then the Detroit Lions do. The expectations coming into the season were completely different...

Anyways, I'd consider Sony's number disappointing when compared to previous generations but decent in their own right. I'm sure Sony's biggest concern is profiting off this endeavor and not pleasing those infatuated with console sales

 

[freddy]

You people are still arguing about who is a better distant second? The Wii will be outselling both combined in the very near future.

Noone should be bragging about Xbox 360 or PS3. Both are underperforming in an expanded market and one is sucking it up at the so called mass market price.

Get a grip people. Enjoy your games and better luck for your favourite corporation in a few years time. Maybe by then you won't care so much.

 

[ChaoticBlue]

hey, at least that's 21.3 million blu ray players out there too. so its double win for sony.

 

[MotherFan]

"Sony is doing fine. It is selling well for its price, we are confident it can beat the 360. It has no lasting power, the wii is not our competitor and we are still the official industry leader and our sales will continue to grow."

 

[Fenderputty]

So you think had the PS3 launched the same day as the 360 at the same price, the same spec as it is now minus the BD drive, it would actually sell less? I think you're high.

No ... that isn't what I said. I said they wouldn't have won the HD format war. The one between BD and HDDVD. They sacrificed a lot of video game market share for the success of an HD format. We've yet to see if they can gain market share back in the console war. I'm not really sure if it was worth it to them for the format war.

Likewise, if the 360 had launched with standard HDDVD and Sony didn't have BD, I think the situations would have been reversed.

BTW ... I love my PS3 and it's BD player.

 

[StuBurns]

No ... that isn't what I said. I said they wouldn't have won the HD format war. The one between BD and HDDVD. They sacrificed a lot of video game market share for the success of an HD format. We've yet to see if they can gain market share back in the console war. I'm not really sure if it was worth it to them for the format war.

Oh sorry, I misread your message.

But I disagree. There's no reason to think HD-DVD would have won just because the PS3 didn't have a BD drive. One of them had to win.

 

[Fenderputty]

Oh sorry, I misread your message.

But I disagree. There's no reason to think HD-DVD would have won just because the PS3 didn't have a BD drive. One of them had to win.

Actually ... there is. The majority of BD players int he market when they won the format war were due to PS3's. They were the cheaper and best players. Before the PS3, HDDVD was winning the war. If you remember, there was a point in time at which people were bailing on BD for HDDVD too. They all lost due to sheer number of PS3 owners in the market and had to come back. That's why I didn't get Transformers in HD quality until a year after it came out.

 

[Kilrogg]

It's a matter of expectations. Microsoft or Nintendo weren't the kings of gaming for the last two generations, nor did they sell well over 200 million consoles in a little over a decade. The 360 is the successor to a sub 25 million console seller and money sink while the Playstation 3 is following the single most successful gaming platform of all time. It's not surprising to believe that expectations would be higher for Sony while significantly lower for Microsoft.

It's like being surprised that a 2 time winning Super Bowl team (consecutively) receives more criticism for being average then the Detroit Lions do. The expectations coming into the season were completely different...

Anyways, I'd consider Sony's number disappointing when compared to previous generations but decent in their own right. I'm sure Sony's biggest concern is profiting off this endeavor and not pleasing those infatuated with console sales

You're misunderstanding me. When I say that the comparison brings light to Microsoft's failings, I don't mean that the PS3 isn't a failure. It IS an incredible failure to me, and as I said, I believe it won't close the sales gap between it and the 360. To me, it's not even a question of whether the PS3 is a failure or not (regardless of the 360 sales).

However, and that's my point, the fact that such comparison can be drawn - in favour of the PS3 at that - shows how Microsoft has a really hard time becoming truly successful. Nobody can deny that the 360 has sold better than the original XBox, and many including me believe that it will be ahead of the PS3 (as it is now) when all is said and done; but you can't deny that Microsoft has been pouring billions of dollars into the XBox franchise, had the 360 go on sale one full year before the PS3 (while the XBox came out one year AFTER the PS2), sells at a significantly lower price, and yet is behind the PS3 with synced launch dates either.

If we ignore all those factors, the 360 seems to have succeeded in doing 2 things: 1) sell more than the XBox, 2) steal Sony's thunder in the high-end market (the rest being owned by the Wii). Another way of formulating 2) is saying that 360 cemented itself as the go-to hardcore system even though the PS3 has more out of the box (free online, HDD, etc.). These are successes in their own right, but I just can't think they're that meaningful when Microsoft has had to do what no other company could afford without going bankrupt or leave the hardware market. Even Nintendo wouldn't last long if they had thrown so much money at the market and reaped so few rewards.

 

[StuBurns]

Actually ... there is. The majority of BD players int he market when they won the format war were due to PS3's. They were the cheaper and best players. Before the PS3, HDDVD was winning the war. If you remember, there was a point in time at which people were bailing on BD for HDDVD too. They all lost due to sheer number of PS3 owners in the market and had to come back. That's why I didn't get Transformers in HD quality until a year after it came out.

It's true that most BluRay players where the ones in the PS3, but standalone units were selling better than standalone HD-DVD players before Toshiba announced they'd lost.

You could argue that the higher standalone sales were because we knew at that point that BluRay was going to win, but we don't know for a fact either way.

 

[Cooter]

The real question is after a price drop from Nintendo will they outsell MS and Sony commbined.

 

[Grecco]

Its revisionist history to suggest that success wasn't expected of the PS3 even after the whole 599 dollars announcement.

 

[StuBurns]

The real question is after a price drop from Nintendo will they outsell MS and Sony commbined.

Why would they make a price cut? They still can't make enough of them and it already costs more than the 360. They can't sell more because they can't produce more.

Its revisionist history to suggest that success wasn't expected of the PS3 even after the whole 599 dollars announcement.

I think when most people saw the games and found out the price they didn't expect it to kill the 360. The Wii seemed to come out of no where, but if you listen back to old podcasts and things, it's clear most people didn't think the PS3 was going to win.

 

[Cooter]

Why would they make a price cut? They still can't make enough of them and it already costs more than the 360. They can't sell more because they can't produce more.

They won't anytime soon but in a year or two I can see one. Then all hell will break loose.

 

[Kilrogg]

The real question is after a price drop from Nintendo will they outsell MS and Sony commbined.

Aren't they already outselling them combined though?

 

[StuBurns]

The thing is Nintendo just sell every one they make. We don't know how much they could sell in a month if they had an unlimited amount of stock.

 

[Guy Legend]

The power of perception:

MS sells 19 million 360 consoles after 29 months on the market: Gaf response YAY!! WOOT!! 360 OWNZ!!

Sony sells 21 million PS3s after 27 months: LOLZ ... PS3 FAIL

Bravo.

It's done quite well worldwide, despite the perception waves we encounter (year of the PS3, ps3 is doomed). Now that the holiday season is a few months passed, lets hope Sony can drop the price - something I think will happen when their fiscal year ends. The slowing sales definitely call for one and we're beginning to see retailers offer $50 gift cards and/or other goodies with the system (Best Buy and Target this upcoming week). Something official can't be too far away.

 

[Cooter]

Aren't they already outselling them combined though?

I think so but if they do it over the course of an entire generation that will be huge. Going from the GC to the success of the Wii is one of the biggest comebacks ever. When you add the DS in the equation they outsell every one 4 to 1. What a monster. That's why this argument for 2nd is so funny to me.

 

[Spiegel]

The thing is Nintendo just sell every one they make. We don't know how much they could sell in a month if they had an unlimited amount of stock.

In Europe/Japan the Wii isn't supply constrained since 2007

 

[StuBurns]

I think so but if they do it over the course of an entire generation that will be huge. Going from the GC to the success of the Wii is one of the biggest comebacks ever. When you add the DS in the equation they outsell every one 4 to 1. What a monster. That's why this argument for 2nd is so funny to me.

You don't find it interesting? I don't care which one wins but I do find it interesting. The Wii is it's own thing, hardcore games aren't selling shit on there, it's not the same thing. Last generation they were competing for the same audience, this time they just found a new audience. It's not a comeback, it's like a reinvention. The 360/PS3 war is far more interesting.

In Europe/Japan the Wii isn't supply constrained since 2007

Indeed, I meant in the states. In fact, I've never known the Wii to be hard to find in the UK. When I brought one I didn't have any issue, nor has anyone else I know personally. The DS on the other hand, that was gone xmas, I spent hours looking one for my sister.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

but good for Sony, to be selling at a much higher price than the competition and still be able to hang in the console war is quite admirable

But Sony says the 360 is actually much more expensive.

 

[Cooter]

You don't find it interesting? I don't care which one wins but I do find it interesting. The Wii is it's own thing, hardcore games aren't selling shit on there, it's not the same thing. Last generation they were competing for the same audience, this time they just found a new audience. It's not a comeback, it's like a reinvention. The 360/PS3 war is far more interesting.

They're not selling because no one is making "hardcore games."

It's a comeback. Sorry

 

[Byakuya769]

In Europe/Japan the Wii isn't supply constrained since 2007

interestingly enough, in japan the sales have been taking a strong downward turn

 

[StuBurns]

They're not selling because no one is making "hardcore games."

It's a comeback. Sorry

That's just not true. No More Heroes, Bully, Fatal Frame, there are hardcore games and they're destroyed by shit like Mario Party.

Games that people buy on PS360 don't sell shit on the Wii.

Lets see how Madworld does. If it's not the best selling game that month the Wii audience should be ashamed.

 

[Red Blaster]

The leads me to believe the PS3 could be doing a lot better right now if Sony weren't completely retarded in 2006/2007.

 

[Rayne.S]

In Europe/Japan the Wii isn't supply constrained since 2007

In europe it is .... just not all regions.

As far as buying and selling, i still can't buy enough to sell ... so constrained it is.

 

[Man God]

That's just not true. No More Heroes, Bully, Fatal Frame, there are hardcore games and they're destroyed by shit like Mario Party.

Games that people buy on PS360 don't sell shit on the Wii.

Lets see how Madworld does. If it's not the best selling game that month the Wii audience should be ashamed.

Umm, no one would buy No More Heroes or Fatal Frame on the other two systems either.

They are pretty niche games. Also didn't NMH outsell every other Grasshopper game? Didn't FF IV do better in Japan than the first three?

 

[obaidr]

Its revisionist history to suggest that success wasn't expected of the PS3 even after the whole 599 dollars announcement.

no. If you look at the way the product is positioned on the market you will see, that the price is not a relevant attribute of the product. The way it sets it self up from its competitors is its uniqueness and easy way to interact with the customer.

(Almost) No one buys a who because it is so cheap. This would mean people who buy the Wii would acctually like to buy a 360 or PS3 but they can't afford them and for that reason they buy a Wii. The Wii customers buy the Wii because of its own attributes. Even if the Wii gets 100$ cheaper, it wont increase its sales in a too large margin, since the target group doesn't care for its price and the potential consumer buys the system because its attributes. To make this better understandable to you I should mention the fact that adoption rate of every new product is limited to its potential adopters.

The PS3s target group and the other hand is really waiting for the entrance barrier to get smaller to jump in. For that reason we can expect a huge increase of sales the PS3 sales after a price drop.

To give you a perfect example look at the situation of the Xbox 360 in germany. You can see it as the perfect opposite of the Wii success. The reason why the system does NOT sell in this case is basically the fact, that it is not interesting for the market. It means the number of the potential consumer/adopters is very small. The price does not play any role, the potential adopters group is small you will not be able to move a lot of consoles if you don't increase that group. Doing that is extremely difficult like you can see in japan (and in Europe).

 

[Spiegel]

In europe it is .... just not all regions.

As far as buying and selling, i still can't buy enough to sell ... so constrained it is.

In what european region is the wii supply constrained?