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[Narcosis]

Its revisionist history to suggest that success wasn't expected of the PS3 even after the whole 599 dollars announcement.

Success of PS2 levels was pretty much the expectation until the E3 where they announced the price and gave us a huge series of internet memes like giant crabs and Riiiiiiidge Raaaaaaacer!. If you look at PS3 coverage from before that event (when intelligent speculation said the machine was going to be expensive and there was no way they;d hit their launch time and units forecast, yet most ignored it) and after that E3, it's pretty safe to say most people except the Sony fanbase had a massive turn around in opinion of the console and of Sony in general.

interestingly enough, in japan the sales have been taking a strong downward turn

Maybe if the Wii was portable it'd rule all in Japan. They could give it an attached screen and call it "WiiGo" or something.
Japan just seems to be indifferent to home consoles anymore.

 

[StuBurns]

Umm, no one would buy No More Heroes or Fatal Frame on the other two systems either.

They are pretty niche games. Also didn't NMH outsell every other Grasshopper game? Didn't FF IV do better in Japan than the first three?

I disagree, No More Heroes is their best game, sales don't really reflect that. I would say it's hard to compare any games one for one yet, outside of Bully and maybe Okami.

When Madworld comes out, we'll see what happens, that's probably the first major third party original hardcore title. I would put money on Bayonetta destroying it.

 

[Cooter]

That's just not true. No More Heroes, Bully, Fatal Frame, there are hardcore games and they're destroyed by shit like Mario Party.

Games that people buy on PS360 don't sell shit on the Wii.

Lets see how Madworld does. If it's not the best selling game that month the Wii audience should be ashamed.

Please. Put a game like Gears on the Wii and watch it sell by the millions. You think No More Heroes would have been a huge hit on the 360?

 

[StuBurns]

Please. Put a game like Gears on the Wii and watch it sell by the millions. You think No More Heroes would have been a huge hit on the 360?

I think it would have sold considerably better.

And I think Bayonetta will sell considerably better than Madworld.

 

[Zen]

Madworld (a Platinum Games/Clover Studios title published by Sega) has to be number 1 for the entire month? There's no way that's going to happen, even if it was a next gen title. Talk about staking the deck for your own self fullfiling prophecy. :lol

 

[StuBurns]

Madworld (a Platinum Games/Clover Studios title published by Sega) has to be number 1 for the entire month? There's no way that's going to happen, even if it was a next gen title. Talk about staking the deck for your own self fullfiling prophecy. :lol

No, I said it should be, lets just see if it sells more units than Bayonetta.

 

[D4Danger]

I think when most people saw the games and found out the price they didn't expect it to kill the 360. The Wii seemed to come out of no where, but if you listen back to old podcasts and things, it's clear most people didn't think the PS3 was going to win.

:lol :lol

You don't remember any of this? It was only last year.

 

[schuelma]

That's just not true. No More Heroes, Bully, Fatal Frame, there are hardcore games and they're destroyed by shit like Mario Party.

Games that people buy on PS360 don't sell shit on the Wii.

Lets see how Madworld does. If it's not the best selling game that month the Wii audience should be ashamed.

Are we still doing this shit?

Jesus

 

[Kilrogg]

Why should it sell more than Bayonetta? Because they're both made by Platinum Games?

I think that whatever the outcome, nothing will be proven... Well, unless maybe one crashes and burns and the other rises to heaven, but I'm not even sure that would prove anything.

 

[StuBurns]

:lol :lol

You don't remember any of this? It was only last year.

Yeah, and you could post a ton of people saying that chart is bollocks. Listen to the old 1up podcasts, people laugh at Shane claiming the PS3 is going to sell well.

Are we still doing this shit?

Jesus

Do I have some sort of history of doing that 'shit'. I don't think I've ever commented on it before.

Why should it sell more than Bayonetta? Because they're both made by Platinum Games?

I think that whatever the outcome, nothing will be proven... Well, unless maybe one crashes and burns and the other rises to heaven, but I'm not even sure that would prove anything.

It probably shouldn't sell more, but if you think the Wii is the same audience as the PS360 then games that are similar to ones popular on PS360 should be popular on Wii.

In fact, because the Wii doesn't have a lot of hardcore games, the ones that come out should probably be bigger.

But yeah, because they're both by the same company, they both are kind of similar in terms of target audience.

 

[Chumly]

I think it would have sold considerably better.

And I think Bayonetta will sell considerably better than Madworld.

Wait you think No More Heroes would have sold considerably better on the 360?
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Grecco]

I think it would have sold considerably better.

And I think Bayonetta will sell considerably better than Madworld.

Really? Really?

 

[StuBurns]

Wait you think No More Heroes would have sold considerably better on the 360?
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
:lol :lol :lol :lol

Yes, I really do. I don't think it would have sold very well, but I think it would have sold better.

This is derailing the thread, we'll see what Madworld/Bayonetta sales look like. I really don't think the Wii audience is anything like the PS360 audience.

Take Call of Duty World at War then.

In the US the 360 version was the second best selling game that month, the PS3 version was sixth. The Wii version was the 19th best selling Wii game. Not even comparable with an install base that trumps the other systems.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Lets see how Madworld does. If it's not the best selling game that month the Wii audience should be ashamed.

Nobody is expecting MadWorld to be the best-selling game of the month, especially with Wii Fit/Wii Play/Resident Evil 5 around. If anything, it will probably act the same as pretty much every other Wii game: a mediocre-to-decent start that slowly walks towards better numbers. Showing legs, in other words.

I'm guessing 400,000 units in the US by the end of the year, which would be pretty respectable for such a quirky title.

 

[StuBurns]

Nobody is expecting MadWorld to be the best-selling game of the month, especially with Wii Fit/Wii Play/Resident Evil 5 around. If anything, it will probably act the same as pretty much every other Wii game: a mediocre-to-decent start that slowly walks towards better numbers. Showing legs, in other words.

I didn't say I expect it to be the best selling game. I said if it's not, it's shameful.
I do think it should outsell Bayonetta, and I don't think there is any chance that it will.

 

[badcrumble]

Why should it?

 

[Karma]

Not to mention at a significantly higher price.

The 360 is more expensive remember. Way more expensive.

 

[Regulus Tera]

I didn't say I expect it to be the best selling game. I said if it's not, it's shameful.

I think it was shameful for the DS audience that Bangai-O Spirits didn't track in any top ten (except my heart's <3).

 

[StuBurns]

Why should it?

Because the installbase is like 45 million. The install base of the PS360 is about 50 million. But they already have a decent selection of similar games to Bayonetta. There isn't really anything on the Wii like Madworld.

They're by the same people, they have a very similar target audience, it should sell to a similar degree. But, if the Wii is owned by millions of children and old bored housewives it won't.

This is derailing the thread. If you don't agree, that's fine, we'll see what happens. But we shouldn't hijack the thread to discuss it.

The same thing happened with CoD:WaW, I have no reason to think the audience has changed since then.

 

[Rolf NB]

Why should it?

Size of installed base.

Aaand beaten.

 

[Bulla564]

The power of perception:

MS sells 19 million 360 consoles after 29 months on the market: Gaf response YAY!! WOOT!! 360 OWNZ!!

Sony sells 21 million PS3s after 27 months: LOLZ ... PS3 FAIL

Let's throw a bit more salt in the wound.

X360
+ year head start with no next-gen competition
+ perception of better games and online
+ cheaper price
+ couple of blockbusters out in that time

PS3
- $600 shock and always more expensive
- perception of no games
- bad press
- negative perception with gamers

The PS3 has always tested the price elasticity of the videogame market. To say that the PS3 is a disaster for Sony is IGNORANT, because of the unrealistic comparison to a $200-$300 PS2.

I as a student know how to use microeconomic models to estimate the demand for a product. Sony, as a manufacturer for decades, surely must have understood that they were going to sell considerably less.

What they underestimated was 1) the popularity of the wii 2) the gains in 3rd party support for the X360 4) the industry backlash on the price.

 

[lowlylowlycook]

I'll decide whether or not it's a failure after it's had it's innings, If I had to make a guess though I'd say the PS3 will probably stay in last place but will end up turning out quite a nice bit of profit for Sony in the end.

Not a chance in hell of the PS3 making up the 3 billion+ lost so far. The question is whether or not competition on price with the 360 and the strong Yen will conspire to keep the PS3 from ever having a profitable year at all.

 

[Joe211]

For those too lazy to read

There's no doubt in my mind that at the end of this gen MS will be third.

 

[StuBurns]

Sony, as a manufacturer for decades, surely must have understood that they were going to sell considerably less.

What they underestimated was 1) the popularity of the wii 2) the gains in 3rd party support for the X360 4) the industry backlash on the price.

Although I think that BluRay might have won either way, it being in the PS3 all but guaranteed it's victory.

Does anyone know what's better for Sony, being second in the console war and BluRay losing, or coming third in the console war and having BluRay win?

 

[obaidr]

Although I think that BluRay might have won either way, it being in the PS3 all but guaranteed it's victory.

Does anyone know what's better for Sony, being second in the console war and BluRay losing, or coming third in the console war and having BluRay win?

very difficult question. Like i said in my post before the market position is not what sony is running for right now. It acctually doesnt matter for SONY wether they are first or last, as long as they sell 100 mil. systems. We acctually don't know how much sony gets for every BD disc sold and we also don't know how high the license fee of BD is.

No matter on which place they will be the only relevant question for SONY is how many systems they sell and how good BD performs. It will be a HUGE plus for SONY of BD replaces the DVD and people will buy as much BD movies as they bought DVDs. I mean who cares on which place you are as long as you make billions of dollar with your system?

 

[Chumly]

Yes, I really do. I don't think it would have sold very well, but I think it would have sold better.

This is derailing the thread, we'll see what Madworld/Bayonetta sales look like. I really don't think the Wii audience is anything like the PS360 audience.

Take Call of Duty World at War then.

In the US the 360 version was the second best selling game that month, the PS3 version was sixth. The Wii version was the 19th best selling Wii game. Not even comparable with an install base that trumps the other systems.

So do you think no more heroes would have sold 3-4 times better considering thats how much more sales it takes to become profitable on the 360/PS3??? Your completely ignoring the fact that Bayonetta is going to have to have SIGNIFICANT more sales than Madworld to turn profit.

 

[whitehawk]

One year ago

Spoiler

it's a link, click it

Sales sure rocked the sky...

 

[lowlylowlycook]

very difficult question. Like i said in my post before the market position is not what sony is running for right now. It acctually doesnt matter for SONY wether they are first or last, as long as they sell 100 mil. systems. We acctually don't know how much sony gets for every BD disc sold and we also don't know how high the license fee of BD is.

No matter on which place they will be the only relevant question for SONY is how many systems they sell and how good BD performs. It will be a HUGE plus for SONY of BD replaces the DVD and people will buy as much BD movies as they bought DVDs. I mean who cares on which place you are as long as you make billions of dollar with your system?

Sony making billions with the PS3? Really?

:lol

 

[StuBurns]

So do you think no more heroes would have sold 3-4 times better considering thats how much more sales it takes to become profitable on the 360/PS3??? Your completely ignoring the fact that Bayonetta is going to have to have SIGNIFICANT more sales than Madworld to turn profit.

What does that matter in any way? I don't care about them making a profit.

Do you think people are going to buy Bayonetta because it cost more to make? What kind of retarded logic is that?

 

[obaidr]

Sony making billions with the PS3? Really?

:lol

what do you think how much they did with ps2? If they sell 100 mil. systems they will be over 1 bil. easily.

So if they sold 21.3 mil. Systems so far for an avarage price of lets say 450$:
21 300 000 x 450 = 9 585 000 000

so from now on they sell every system with profit and they have a averege profit of 50$ per system until the end of this gen. It would mean 80 mil x $50:

80 000 000 x 50 = 4 000 000 000

I didnt now counted the sales of BD and PS3 games.

 

[Karma]

what do you think how much they did with ps2? If they sell 100 mil. systems they will be over 1 bil. easily.

So if they sold 21.3 mil. Systems so far for an avarage price of lets say 450$:
21 300 000 x 450 = 9 585 000 000

so from now on they sell every system with profit and they have a averege profit of 50$ per system until the end of this gen. It would mean 80 mil x $50:

80 000 000 x 50 = 4 000 000 000

I didnt now counted the sales of BD and PS3 games.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[obaidr]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

whats so funny? it is just some simple math.

 

[M°°nblade]

whats so funny? it is just some simple math.

Your math is too simple

 

[Karma]

whats so funny? it is just some simple math.

The PS3 is not going to reach anywhere near 100 million sold. Also, how do you know they are going to be making $50 on each system sold. You just made that up with no reason behind it.

 

[Sydle]

There's no doubt in my mind that at the end of this gen MS will be third.

Even if that does happen, Sony will have lost market share.

 

[obaidr]

The PS3 is not going to reach anywhere near 100 million sold. Also, how do you know they are going to be making $50 on each system sold. You just made that up with no reason behind it.

considering they are already making the system for something like 380$ and with that number decreasing 50$ is a very likely number. Besides it is what they do now with each PS2 system and back in the day with each PS1 system. I don't think it will be too different this gen since they had very advance technology in every of their system at the beginning of the generation.

Even if that does happen, Sony will have lost market share.

Did you ever heard of something called open market economy? There is no single product on the market right now which did now lose market share at one point and gained market share at another. As stronger your competitors are, as more dificult it is to gain marketshare. Sony made a lot of mistakes but that is the risk you take if you enter a market with a new product. You can fail and they did not fail. They just lost market share but they can still keep them self in the market. So whats the point?

 

[Karma]

considering they are already making the system for something like 380$ and with that number decreasing 50$ is a very likely number. Besides it is what they do now with each PS2 system and back in the day with each PS1 system. I don't think it will be too different this gen since they had very advance technology in every of their system at the beginning of the generation.

$380 where are you getting that number? Also, you didn`t say why you thought they would sell 100 Million units.

 

[duk]

yeah of ps3 amirite

 

[Rapping Granny]

I like videyo gamz!

 

[H_Prestige]

considering they are already making the system for something like 380$ and with that number decreasing 50$ is a very likely number. Besides it is what they do now with each PS2 system and back in the day with each PS1 system. I don't think it will be too different this gen since they had very advance technology in every of their system at the beginning of the generation.

Probably in the range of $400-450 actually, but you're right that production costs will go down significantly over time, and this year alone when they switch over to 45nm CELL. But it's never going to reach 100 million. I think it can get 40-50 million when all is said and done, which is still a great figure for a "last" place system.

 

[Joe211]

Even if that does happen, Sony will have lost market share.

You can't crush your opponent everytime especially when they have a lot of money and/or brilliant idea.

 

[Dante]

:lol

 

[lowlylowlycook]

PS3 fanboys have the strangest calender system known to man.

Every year is known as the "year of the PS3: until the start of October.

After that every year is know as "The year the 360 peaked".

Since the society of the PS3 fanboy was essentially pre-literate we may never know what the presumably religious significance of this ritual was.

.

 

[suffah]

Well, Kaz has said (in 2006) that the PS3 would have the same or even surpass the PS2's market share. So even with the price, their late launch, etc, they were confident the system was going to sell like gangbusters.

So I don't get the argument used that the PS3 is more expensive than its competitors and that it launched late. Sony still expected to dominate with those things working against them.

 

[duk]

Let's throw a bit more salt in the wound.

X360
+ year head start with no next-gen competition
+ perception of better games and online
+ cheaper price
+ couple of blockbusters out in that time

PS3
- $600 shock and always more expensive
- perception of no games
- bad press
- negative perception with gamers

The PS3 has always tested the price elasticity of the videogame market. To say that the PS3 is a disaster for Sony is IGNORANT, because of the unrealistic comparison to a $200-$300 PS2.

I as a student know how to use microeconomic models to estimate the demand for a product. Sony, as a manufacturer for decades, surely must have understood that they were going to sell considerably less.

What they underestimated was 1) the popularity of the wii 2) the gains in 3rd party support for the X360 4) the industry backlash on the price.

wait you're a student?

 

[obaidr]

$380 where are you getting that number? Also, you didn`t say why you thought they would sell 100 Million units.

there was an articel on heise.de (#1 website for internet/technology news and very thruthfull) and they said they cut the PS3 manufacturing costs by 35% since last year and pay now slightly under 400€.

 

[StuBurns]

Well, Kaz has said (in 2006) that the PS3 would have the same or even surpass the PS2's market share. So even with the price, their late launch, etc, they were confident the system was going to sell like gangbusters.

I don't think him saying that proves Sony thought it. What else is he going to say, "yeah, we'll probably come in third this time because of the product costs, but you know, win some lose some, at least BluRay'll take off".

 

[Zombie James]

I like videyo gamz!

What's the story behind this? I saw bish make the same comment :lol

 

[slider]

Well, Kaz has said (in 2006) that the PS3 would have the same or even surpass the PS2's market share. So even with the price, their late launch, etc, they were confident the system was going to sell like gangbusters.

So I don't get the argument used that the PS3 is more expensive than its competitors and that it launched late. Sony still expected to dominate with those things working against them.

Market share or LTD? Either way I'd say he was wrong - more wrong on market share of course. But if he did say that (and I don't doubt he did) it's the sort of things people say about their products. :|

 

[szaromir]

Well, Kaz has said (in 2006) that the PS3 would have the same or even surpass the PS2's market share.

Wrong.

That was in July 2008

http://www.totalvideogames.com/PlayStation-3/news/Sony-Boss-Sets-New-PS3-Target-12980.html