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[Regulus Tera]

This thread is awesome. :lol:lol:lol

 

[Deku]

Fascinating to watch that the 'conventional' wisdom has turned from ridiculing the Wii to 'Sony should do the same with the PS3' and before that it was 'Sony should Wii-fy the PS2'

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Ugh, no.

Heh. Probably.

 

[StuBurns]

Fascinating to watch thatt he 'conventional' wisdom has turned from ridiculing the Wii to 'Sony should do the same with the PS3' and before that it was 'Sony Wii-fy the PS2'

I still think the Wii is a joke as a gamer. But I think it's genius as a person who likes money. The PS3 is still too expensive. How anyone can say a cheaper Sony console is a bad thing blows my mind.

 

[Deku]

I still think the Wii is a joke as a gamer. But I think it's genius as a person who likes money. The PS3 is still too expensive. How anyone can say a cheaper Sony console is a bad thing blows my mind.

When did video games stop being a business, and what kind of shitty gamer are you to make that comment.

 

[StuBurns]

When did video games stop becoming a business, and what kind of shitty gamer are you to make that comment.

Do you mean 'start' becoming a business?

As a gamer I want Sony, in my opinion the best first party in the industry, to not be last. And I certainly don't want Nintendo to be first.

As a gamer you should want Sony to be doing better too.

 

[Cipherr]

Do you mean 'start' becoming a business?

As a gamer I want Sony, in my opinion the best first party in the industry, to not be last. And I certainly don't want Nintendo to be first.

As a gamer you should want Sony to be doing better too.

A real gamer would want all of them to be doing as good or better as Nintendo is now. You would be an idiot to suggest otherwise.

 

[WinFonda]

The power of perception:

MS sells 19 million 360 consoles after 29 months on the market: Gaf response YAY!! WOOT!! 360 OWNZ!!

Sony sells 21 million PS3s after 27 months: LOLZ ... PS3 FAIL

...And the internet is forever stupid

 

[StuBurns]

A real gamer would want all of them to be doing as good or better as Nintendo is now. You would be an idiot to suggest otherwise.

You want Nintendo to think it's okay to recycle their games and hardware? It's a disgrace. Microsoft and Sony should be stomping on them, not looking to them for inspiration for what to do next time. The Wii has said one thing, gamers don't give a fuck, they'll buy the same thing time after time.

I want brutal competition, but not between distance second and third place.

 

[szaromir]

As a gamer you should want Sony to be doing better too.

Nope, a gamer should care only about a steady stream of good games, not which hardware company is winning/losing console war. After all it's about software, not hardware.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

A real gamer would want all of them to be doing as good or better as Nintendo is now. You would be an idiot to suggest otherwise.

As a real gamer, I want Nintendo in 1st place. Sony all but killed gaming when they started putting games on CDs and made it about cinematic cutscenes and voice acting. Because of them we no longer play video games, we watch them.

 

[StuBurns]

Nope, a gamer should care only about a steady stream of good games, not which hardware company is winning/losing console war. After all it's about software, not hardware.

Correct, out of Sony and Microsoft I couldn't give a fuck who's winning, my experience on both consoles are roughly the same.

The Wii on the other hand, it's not in the same league, the games we're getting aren't even near the same quality.

Hardware does matter, manufacturer doesn't

 

[Lightning]

What is this "real gamer" crap? All it does is make one sound like an elitist idiot.

 

[BlackGoku03]

I can see what Stubburns is saying. I've sold basically the same Wii game to moms and kids since it came out. Some type of family friendly party/mini-games fest. Those games look so rediculous. I've played them once and will never play them again.

Different strokes for different folks though.

I think stubburns thinks Microsoft and Sony will do the same to thier first party line-up next generation. They won't.

As a real gamer, I want Nintendo in 1st place. Sony all but killed gaming when they started putting games on CDs and made it about cinematic cutscenes and voice acting. Because of them we no longer play video games, we watch them.

Is this real or...?

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I don't care what anyone says. Considering they came an entire year later, for $600, losing a multitude of exclusives and without the strongest launch line-up, this is quite an accomplishment. Good job Sony. Now you know the next step, don't you?

 

[szaromir]

Hardware does matter

More powerful hardware gives a bit more room when it comes to game design, but for the most part more processing power means better graphics and production values with the core game being the same. That's why it's mostly irrelevant IMO.

 

[templeusox]

As a real gamer, I want Nintendo in 1st place. Sony all but killed gaming when they started putting games on CDs and made it about cinematic cutscenes and voice acting. Because of them we no longer play video games, we watch them.

Haha. Awesome.

 

[Bulla564]

As a real gamer, I want Nintendo in 1st place. Sony all but killed gaming when they started putting games on CDs and made it about cinematic cutscenes and voice acting. Because of them we no longer play video games, we watch them.

If this is actually real and not sarcasm, I will sadly miss out on the ensuing shitstorm.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Fascinating to watch that the 'conventional' wisdom has turned from ridiculing the Wii to 'Sony should do the same with the PS3' and before that it was 'Sony should Wii-fy the PS2'

The next one will be how awesome IR is is for shooters and don't know how we ever lived without them. Next gen.

 

[Calcaneus]

You want Nintendo to think it's okay to recycle their games and hardware? It's a disgrace. Microsoft and Sony should be stomping on them, not looking to them for inspiration for what to do next time. The Wii has said one thing, gamers don't give a fuck, they'll buy the same thing time after time.

I want brutal competition, but not between distance second and third place.

No, I want Nintendo to think its okay that they can try new things with their consoles and that it doesn't matter if you have the best graphics out there. The biggest problem with the Wii (third party support) isn't Nintendo's fault.

 

[Lightning]

As a real gamer, I want Nintendo in 1st place. Sony all but killed gaming when they started putting games on CDs and made it about cinematic cutscenes and voice acting. Because of them we no longer play video games, we watch them.

LOL. I don' tknow much about gaming before Sony as Sony are the ones that got me into gaming but that is just BS. Seriously, even as a joke post not even funny.

 

[TTP]

More powerful hardware gives a bit more room when it comes to game design, but for the most part more processing power means better graphics and production values with the core game being the same. That's why it's mostly irrelevant IMO.

That might sound true if you look at a couple of generation transitions, but not so if you try to apply that logic to the whole history of game technology. You can't honestly think going from NES to PS3 was irrelevant.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

As a real gamer, I want Nintendo in 1st place. Sony all but killed gaming when they started putting games on CDs and made it about cinematic cutscenes and voice acting. Because of them we no longer play video games, we watch them.

We didn't exactly "only" watch legendary games such as Tomb Raider, Tekken, Final Fantasy 7, Devil May Cry, Resident Evil which all took advantage of CD technology. Don't get me wrong, I commend what Nintendo did with the Wii, but how can you say Sony killed gaming when they created some of the best games of all time and made gaming mainstream? CD is probably the best thing that ever happened to gaming. I do agree that sometimes there is a heavy emphasis on cutscenes, voice acting and cinematics, but I take that over expensive cartridges with limited memory? Even the Wii to my knowledge is DVD-based. There must be a logical reason behind that.

 

[szaromir]

That might sound true if you look at a couple of generation transitions, but not so if you try to apply that logic to the whole history of game technology. You can't honestly think going from NES to PS3 was irrelevant.

You got me there.

 

[Redd]

Hmmmm, last few pages are...........yeah.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I'm absolutely serious. Back in the late 90's Sony did a damn good job of ruining the gaming that I had enjoyed for over a decade with Nintendo and Sega. For a long time gaming became a very secondary hobby to me - something I did for a few hours a month, if at all, and was really only encapsulated by a few games for the past two generations.

My post is to illustrate that you're not the only gamers out there, and it's not like a shift like this hasn't happened before.

No matter what happens, the glory days of the NES, SNES, and Genesis won't come back, but that won't stop me from enjoying it as Sony gets the bad end of the stick as mainstream gaming changes direction again as they can't keep up.

 

[TTP]

You got me there.

That was the equivalent of an headshot indeed

 

[braimuge]

I'm absolutely serious. Back in the late 90's Sony did a damn good job of ruining the gaming that I had enjoyed for over a decade with Nintendo and Sega. For a long time gaming became a very secondary hobby to me - something I did for a few hours a month, if at all, and was really only encapsulated by a few games for the past two generations.

My post is to illustrate that you're not the only gamers out there, and it's not like a shift like this hasn't happened before.

No matter what happens, the glory days of the NES, SNES, and Genesis won't come back, but that won't stop me from enjoying it as Sony gets the bad end of the stick as mainstream gaming changes direction again as they can't keep up.

Spoiler

I still love you though

 

[StuBurns]

I'm absolutely serious. Back in the late 90's Sony did a damn good job of ruining the gaming that I had enjoyed for over a decade with Nintendo and Sega. For a long time gaming became a very secondary hobby to me - something I did for a few hours a month, if at all, and was really only encapsulated by a few games for the past two generations.

My post is to illustrate that you're not the only gamers out there, and it's not like a shift like this hasn't happened before.

No matter what happens, the glory days of the NES, SNES, and Genesis won't come back, but that won't stop me from enjoying it as Sony gets the bad end of the stick as mainstream gaming changes direction again as they can't keep up.

That's some serious fanboy poison you're spewing.

The PlayStation project was born out of the Nintendo CD prototype product.
Nintendo wanted a CD based game consoles before PlayStation existed.

 

[polyh3dron]

Wii had a relaunch?

 

[mrklaw]

If anything comes out of this announcement, I hope it stops people immediately jumping in for the Sony bash, and less overtly negative editorials/articles in the specialist media.

 

[Regulus Tera]

As a real gamer, I want Nintendo in 1st place. Sony all but killed gaming when they started putting games on CDs and made it about cinematic cutscenes and voice acting. Because of them we no longer play video games, we watch them.

You would probably have a point if we still lived in the PSX or PS2 eras. Games with ungodly amounts of cutscenes-to-gameplay ratios are rare among the HD consoles, MGS4 nonwithstanding.

Is this real or...?

Pretty real. One of the most common complaints from PSX detractors was that Full Motion Videos took "gameplay" away from the player. This is especially true in Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy games, which rose to the heavens during that period of time.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Hardware and technology always matter. If it didn't, why didn't they create MGS4, Gears of War or Uncharted on the NES or PSOne? It would be a comparable experience, right? You can still get enjoyment out of an 8 bit game just as much as an HD game, but the experience can be drastically enhanced with better technology. Why even embrace HDTV's when we all could go back to 13" black and white televisions with snow and static?

 

[polyh3dron]

I'm absolutely serious. Back in the late 90's Sony did a damn good job of ruining the gaming that I had enjoyed for over a decade with Nintendo and Sega. For a long time gaming became a very secondary hobby to me - something I did for a few hours a month, if at all, and was really only encapsulated by a few games for the past two generations.

My post is to illustrate that you're not the only gamers out there, and it's not like a shift like this hasn't happened before.

No matter what happens, the glory days of the NES, SNES, and Genesis won't come back, but that won't stop me from enjoying it as Sony gets the bad end of the stick as mainstream gaming changes direction again as they can't keep up.

This post is SCREAMING for a dramatic reading.

 

[UntoldDreams]

I'm absolutely serious. Back in the late 90's Sony did a damn good job of ruining the gaming that I had enjoyed for over a decade with Nintendo and Sega. For a long time gaming became a very secondary hobby to me - something I did for a few hours a month, if at all, and was really only encapsulated by a few games for the past two generations.

My post is to illustrate that you're not the only gamers out there, and it's not like a shift like this hasn't happened before.

No matter what happens, the glory days of the NES, SNES, and Genesis won't come back, but that won't stop me from enjoying it as Sony gets the bad end of the stick as mainstream gaming changes direction again as they can't keep up.

...
You sound like a gaming luddite.

There was quite a bit of value added by going away from 16 bit rom cartridges to optical medium.

 

[jett]

As a real gamer, I want Nintendo in 1st place. Sony all but killed gaming when they started putting games on CDs and made it about cinematic cutscenes and voice acting. Because of them we no longer play video games, we watch them.

...


LOL

 

[StuBurns]

One of the most common complaints from PSX detractors was that Full Motion Videos took "gameplay" away from the player. This is especially true in Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy games, which rose to the heavens during that period of time.

If those complaints are common, they're stupid.

Not the lack of interactivity, I'm up for that. I never want the control taken away. But the idea that this is because of Sony is bullshit.

Metal Gear 2 had bits of non-interactivity, exactly the same. Final Fantasy VI has plenty of non-interactivity as well. It's just not an accurate complaint.

Hardware and technology always matter. If it didn't, why didn't they create MGS4, Gears of War or Uncharted on the NES or PSOne? It would be a comparable experience, right? You can still get enjoyment out of an 8 bit game just as much as an HD game, but the experience can be drastically enhanced with better technology. Why even embrace HDTV's when we all could go back to 13" black and white televisions with snow and static?

Completely 100% true.

Kojima said MGS4 wasn't as good as it could of been because of the PS3 bottlenecks. Developers are still struggling now, lets calm the generations when we hit diminishing returns.

 

[Gotchaye]

As a real gamer, I want Nintendo in 1st place. Sony all but killed gaming when they started putting games on CDs and made it about cinematic cutscenes and voice acting. Because of them we no longer play video games, we watch them.

Yes, this guy's going to get jumped on, but it's important to understand that this isn't an uncommon or unreasonable complaint. Not that Sony killed gaming, but that games were getting too 'cinematic'.

There are lots of different traditions even in 'hardcore gaming'. One is the sort of cinematic gaming that took off with the PS1 and nearly dominated the industry with the PS2. These are characterized by games which are 'about something'. These are games with stories and settings and characters, and a big part of their appeal is found outside of the moment-by-moment gameplay. Among others, however, there's an older tradition in gaming which goes back to the arcades and which emphasizes just that moment-by-moment experience. The pure examples are Tetris, Asteroids, etc. But a lot of NES and SNES era games are more or less in this tradition. Super Mario Bros isn't really 'about' anything; if you were describing the game to someone, you probably wouldn't even use the word 'plumber', and princesses would even be a bit beside the point. The game is really just about getting from left to right.

I think that lots of people on boards like this one underestimate the appeal of games like this. Shooters, for example, tend to appeal to the cinematic-types on message boards, but they also appeal to in-the-moment gamers (who tend not to be as obsessive about following news and posting). Guitar Hero does a lot of the same things. But I do think that the PS2 had gone too far away from what these moment-by-moment gamers were looking for, and it makes sense that many of them would see the Wii as a welcome correction, since virtually every great game on it has some very old-fashioned tendencies.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

This post is SCREAMING for a dramatic reading.

Could be. I'll stop now. The meltdown happened a decade or so ago, no reason to spend any more time revisiting it.

 

[Regulus Tera]

If those complaints are common, they're stupid.

Not the lack of interactivity, I'm up for that. I never want the control taken away. But the idea that this is because of Sony is bullshit.

Metal Gear 2 had bits of non-interactivity, exactly the same. Final Fantasy VI has plenty of non-interactivity as well. It's just not an accurate complaint.

I'm not going to affirm the assertion as accurate or not, but the PSX did help cinematic gaming become more important among consoles thanks to the vaster amount of memory in comparison to cartridges.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm absolutely serious. Back in the late 90's Sony did a damn good job of ruining the gaming that I had enjoyed for over a decade with Nintendo and Sega. For a long time gaming became a very secondary hobby to me - something I did for a few hours a month, if at all, and was really only encapsulated by a few games for the past two generations.

My post is to illustrate that you're not the only gamers out there, and it's not like a shift like this hasn't happened before.

No matter what happens, the glory days of the NES, SNES, and Genesis won't come back, but that won't stop me from enjoying it as Sony gets the bad end of the stick as mainstream gaming changes direction again as they can't keep up.

OH GOD! LOL :lol

Yeah fuck Sony for getting gaming and game development out of the headlock Nintendo had it in And legitimizing the video games industry.

Holy Shit!!!

 

[Calcaneus]

I'm absolutely serious. Back in the late 90's Sony did a damn good job of ruining the gaming that I had enjoyed for over a decade with Nintendo and Sega. For a long time gaming became a very secondary hobby to me - something I did for a few hours a month, if at all, and was really only encapsulated by a few games for the past two generations.

My post is to illustrate that you're not the only gamers out there, and it's not like a shift like this hasn't happened before.

No matter what happens, the glory days of the NES, SNES, and Genesis won't come back, but that won't stop me from enjoying it as Sony gets the bad end of the stick as mainstream gaming changes direction again as they can't keep up.

Regardless of all the great games on Sony's console that killed gaming, did you not have an N64 or Dreamcast? Or were they also somehow being devoured by Sony's devil magic?

 

[StuBurns]

I'm not going to affirm the assertion as accurate or not, but the PSX did help cinematic gaming become more important among consoles thanks to the vaster amount of memory in comparison to cartridges.

Popularization of the non-interactive cinematic yes, origin of it, no.

 

[DMeisterJ]

Good job Sony!

Kutaragi Vindicated!

 

[kamorra]

No matter what happens, the glory days of the NES, SNES, and Genesis won't come back, but that won't stop me from enjoying it as Sony gets the bad end of the stick as mainstream gaming changes direction again as they can't keep up.

So do you like this new direction? Even further away from the glory days of the NES, SNES, and Genesis? Is this new direction also Sonys fault? Did they tricked the public again?

 

[Red Blaster]

As a real gamer, I want Nintendo in 1st place. Sony all but killed gaming when they started putting games on CDs and made it about cinematic cutscenes and voice acting. Because of them we no longer play video games, we watch them.

And yet, I bet you love Resident Evil.

 

[neojubei]

If those complaints are common, they're stupid.

Not the lack of interactivity, I'm up for that. I never want the control taken away. But the idea that this is because of Sony is bullshit.

Metal Gear 2 had bits of non-interactivity, exactly the same. Final Fantasy VI has plenty of non-interactivity as well. It's just not an accurate complaint.


Completely 100% true.

Kojima said MGS4 wasn't as good as it could of been because of the PS3 bottlenecks. Developers are still struggling now, lets calm the generations when we hit diminishing returns.

How does this even apply to the point of this thread?

 

[Narcosis]

As a real gamer, I want Nintendo in 1st place. Sony all but killed gaming when they started putting games on CDs and made it about cinematic cutscenes and voice acting. Because of them we no longer play video games, we watch them.

Look, I loved the 16 bit era just as much as you apparently did by your posts. I spent hours upon hours playing NES, SNES and Genesis games in my childhood, but this idea that optical disc ruined gaming is a bit off as far as I'm concerned.
Do you remember what some of those cartridge games were beginning to run cost-wise? Final Fantasy VI I believe I paid around $75 for, and most of the games I ended up buying I got from rental places clearing out extra rental copies on the cheap because the MSRP was creeping up from $50 to the $60, $70 and higher range. When you're relying on your parents, a measly allowance or mowing your neighbor's yard all summer to afford stuff, a $70-$80 game is brutal on the wallet.

Sony PS1 was riding the natural evolution of gaming hardware when it used CD-ROM technology. It made the games cheaper for both the developers and the end consumers. Sure, CD-ROM and it;s console successors DVD and Bluray has introduced us to load times and some developers who fill optical discs with useless bloat, but I am glad optical discs have been the format of choice over cartridges in all home consoles these past few generations.

Now as far as the rise of cinematics and cutscenes, that's a whole different topic of discussion and one that is less a concern with the media format as much as with each individual game producer and how they decide upon the proper or improper use of cinematic elements.

 

[neojubei]

Why does good Sony news always devolve into lets trash Sony.

 

[StuBurns]

Wow you know you are twisting his words for own idiot argument. And does this even apply to the point of this thread?

I think you're insane. He literally said he's intent was to move the series forward ten steps but could only move the series forward one step because they were using the cell to it's maximum. How is that twisting anything?

As for if it's relevant, yes it is. It shows that developers still can't do what they want on these machines so we're not at diminishing returns yet, we could be a long way off.