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The Incompetence of Microsoft Studios

S

Steverulez

Member
Dragonborn said:
EGh, it's just incompetence. We have three generations worth of history now to properly judge MS and their general MO. Nothing has chnaged so far, not even after the great savior arrived.

Take this year for example. There is not a single prominent exusive for MONTHS (I'll assume the first one will be QB). With a console that'd struggling to keep up with its competition even though it's cheaper and bundled with games, that kind of thing is just insane and highlights the weakness that is their first party. It's a Wii U level gap in terms of exclusive titles (maybe even worse).
Click to expand...

Would you rather they rushed games out that weren't finished?

They got a hole in the line-up for a few months, quite frankly i'll be happy with Ori, Screamride and State of Decay anyway, I have about 15 games in my backlog as it is, theres some 3rd party stuff and tons of indies coming out at the moment too. Its nots like there is nothing to play and I bet next year (and going forwards) they won't have the issue of another big gap.

Also being outsold when its cheaper is misleading, it outsold PS4 in the US over the holidays when it was cheaper, and spent 1/3 of January at a higher price (which was a lower month all round) its not like its been cheaper for 18 months
 
J

Jhotun

Neo Member
Alo0oy said:
There's nothing shady going on here.

For comparison, we have been waiting for Team ICO to deliver since 2005.
Click to expand...

D6PfW.jpg
 
T

taps

Neo Member
A year and a half on the market what are these great 1st party PS4 titles from Sony's robust stable of IPs people seem to be alluding to? Please no TLOU remaster mentions. For the record I think MS 1st parties are crap too. These guys sell all their consoles w/ 3rd party games. Ico is not walking through those doors. Comparison of Sony to Nintendo quality of 1st party is laughable. Rare exception for the GTs of the world. Uncharted etc = slippery gameplay w/ fantstic story and cinematic sex appeal.

Why fight it? It's why they dominate. Can't have your cake and eat it too saying Sony 1st party are top tier like an MGS5 or SF5 on top of having the highest selling console. Sony 1st party don't stack up to (what will be) the best on PS4 & they are the runaway winners of this console war.

Accept it, don't be like Ninty fanboys denying the obvious truth.
 
D

Dragonborn

Member
Steverulez said:
Would you rather they rushed games out that weren't finished?

They got a hole in the line-up for a few months, quite frankly i'll be happy with Ori, Screamride and State of Decay anyway, I have about 15 games in my backlog as it is, theres some 3rd party stuff and tons of indies coming out at the moment too. Its nots like there is nothing to play and I bet next year (and going forwards) they won't have the issue of another big gap.
Click to expand...

No, I'd rather they start getting their crap together and stop back loading every thing into the holidays. Go out and fund more titles get stringer second party relationships going, get more first party studios running. Do something.

I played State of Decay already, twice (on the 360 and PC). I still have no idea what Scream ride eve is exactly and I'm looking forward to ORI (though only if it releases for 15 bucks, I won't pay 20). Still, if you're telling me that's enough the I don't know what to say.

There's obviously an issue at MS, and they're not hiding it very well anymore.
 
S

SlipperyMoose

Member
For the mid to end tail life of the 360 I think was MGS lowest point. They are not perfect yet but they seem to be getting better in my opinion. They Gears of War and Minecraft are now first party IPs. They have been brining back classics like Killer Instinct and Phantom Dust which both have had a few rough spots but are making it. And they have been more diverse on a new IP as of late. That's not to say they are perfect though and have it down as smooth as some of their competitors but I'm actually in a positive mindset for them.
 
S

Steverulez

Member
Dragonborn said:
No, I'd rather they start getting their crap together and stop back loading every thing into the holidays. Go out and fund more titles get stringer second party relationships going, get more first party studios running. Do something.

I played State of Decay already, twice (on the 360 and PC). I still have no idea what Scream ride eve is exactly and I'm looking forward to ORI (though only if it releases for 15 bucks, I won't pay 20). Still, if you're telling me that's enough the I don't know what to say.

There's obviously an issue at MS, and they're not hiding it very well anymore.
Click to expand...

Theres a demo out for Screamride, you'd know if you looked. They are getting their "crap" together, you can play the games that came out last holiday this year you know, you're not exclusively forced to play "new" games.

Ori is $20 btw I guess your XB1 is going to be in the closet for a lot longer, you want new games, you get one and then you don't want to pay for it. If its not worth $20 to you thats fine, but then your complaint about not having any games seems a bit thin, go and get a code to buy it off the Russian store I'm sure it be cheaper over there.

I never said it was enough, but new games are getting released all the time, gaps happen, Microsoft launched with 8 exclusive published games, MS had a decent holiday for releases and a gap happens, its unfortunate but it happens. Lets not forget Sony only have The Order releasing now because it missed its holiday launch, these things happen I doubt MS sat there and thought "lets have a big gap for releases in Q1/Q2!", likely, Quantum Break got delayed, and probably Fable Legends too

They have plenty announced for the coming year and games that will obviously be next year too and more to come still.
 
D

Dragonborn

Member
Steverulez said:
Theres a demo out for Screamride, you'd know if you looked. They are getting their "crap" together, you can play the games that came out last holiday this year you know, you're not exclusively forced to play "new" games.

Ori is $20 btw I guess your XB1 is going to be in the closet for a lot longer, you want new games, you get one and then you don't want to pay for it. If its not worth $20 to you thats fine, but then your complaint about not having any games seems a bit thin, go and get a code to buy it off the Russian store I'm sure it be cheaper over there.

I never said it was enough, but new games are getting released all the time, gaps happen, Microsoft launched with 8 exclusive published games, MS had a decent holiday for releases and a gap happens, its unfortunate but it happens. Lets not forget Sony only have The Order releasing now because it missed its holiday launch, these things happen I doubt MS sat there and thought "lets have a big gap for releases in Q1/Q2!", likely, Quantum Break got delayed, and probably Fable Legends too

They have plenty announced for the coming year and games that will obviously be next year too and more to come still.
Click to expand...

Nah, my X1 still gets use. Rented Evolve and Dying Light for it so it's actually more in use atm. I had no idea Screamride had a demo, I'll check it out to put all doubts to bed.

Ori at 20 is a tougher call. I'm not saying it's a definitive no but I am going to wait a a bit on it. I like what I've seen so far but I'm unsure about whether I want to spend that much On it.

And you're completely right, you can play last year's games on it. Problem is, I've had it since Oct. so I have actually played every exclusive from last year.

The Holidays are too damed packed though. From Sept to Dec my wallet is already raided plenty enough, I just wish they could spread that out a bit more.
 
N

nampad

Member
MS has been mismanaging their first party studios for quite some time and I hoped this generation would be different.
One of the main reasons was that MS bought studios but then proceeded to destroy the studio culture. We have examples for this like FASA or Rare. It nearly happened to Bungie too as they planned to move them to Redmond. We have several records of people stating that. (e.g. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/microsoft-destroyed-development-culture-weisman ; http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-08-who-killed-rare ; http://www.dromble.com/2012/08/21/donnchadh-murphy-chats-about-rareware-2/ ; http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=180789 ).

It seemed like MS was changing their approach to first party studios though and were rather building up new studios instead, where the company culture would develop and fit MS more naturally. 343i was a quite exciting new studio with all the talent behind it when it was founded. Playground (while second party, they seem very close to MS) came out of nowhere and released good games.

Victoria and Vancouver/Black Tusk sounded like the next big things and Lift London like something that could surprise one with a new concept (it seems like Phil Harrison's pet project and Phil did a good job at Sony in some regards).
Unfortunately, we haven't seen anything worthwhile out of these studios yet. Victoria was closed down again, Vancouver/Black Tusk had several projects cancelled and nothing to show for in about 4 years of existence and Lift London still needs to announce something since their inception over 2 years ago.

Then, there are several smaller teams which were bought/founded for casual download titles like Bigpark.

I guess one of the main reasons why the new first party approach hasn't worked out well so far is that the leadership of the Xbox division changed and with it the whole vision/direction. The groundwork for the new studios was lain by Don Mattrick who had a different focus (TV, Kinect). And of course, building up a AAA studio can't be an easy task.
 
S

Servbot24

Banned
Sounds like your typical game company. I wouldn't even call it incompetence - everyone makes a bad investment once in a while, doesn't mean that everyone is incompetent. Now if Halo 5 is broken and Crackdown gets canceled, ok, that would be out of the ordinary.
 
E

EightBitNate

Member
Microsoft has been putting out better 1st party games than Sony so far this gen. I expected KZSF, Infamous, and Driveclub to be much better than they were.

Nintendo is king tho.
 
S

Shabad

Member
A Virtual Duck said:
I guess we could go to Metacritic like Nintendo love to to settle that ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah... let's not do that. If you want to talk about Sony's first party output VS Microsoft's, just go make a new thread
- or don't really...

Anyway, I feel I have a few problems with Microsoft Studios :
- They announce some projects waaaaay too early. The Phantom Dust is an obvious one given the recent news, but all their E3 announcements should have been delayed. And before people mention SonyToo and The Last Guardian, Sony did have the exact same issue, and they apparently fixed it now.
- The second/third party deals dies down as the years pass, and the late life support of the console is lacking. This may or may not happen this time around, but history isn't reassuring.
- Forcing their own devs on successful licences, even when they want to try new things.
- The fucking parity clause, preventing many games from reaching the console.

Some projects being canned, some studios being incompetent, ... Microsoft can't too much about this, this is just how this industry works. Every project has a risk of failure. But all of the above, yes, they can act on this, and it wouldn't be that hard really.
 
M

mike4001_

Member
GHG said:
The biggest issue they have is that they seem to have adopted the EA/Ubi mentality of forcing games out the door even if they are not finished or playtested properly.

The end result is buggy games, huge patches and frustration for the end user.
Click to expand...

That happened with one game

I don´t think any Microsoft game other than HALO MCC hat launch problems.
 
S

sheamus

Member
I wouldn't say incompetence I would say it's more that Microsoft is terrified of losing money. Which is why so many of their games are kind of safe and boring.
 
G

Game4life

Banned
Dragonborn said:
EGh, it's just incompetence. We have three generations worth of history now to properly judge MS and their general MO. Nothing has chnaged so far, not even after the great savior arrived.

Take this year for example. There is not a single prominent exusive for MONTHS (I'll assume the first one will be QB). With a console that'd struggling to keep up with its competition even though it's cheaper and bundled with games, that kind of thing is just insane and highlights the weakness that is their first party. It's a Wii U level gap in terms of exclusive titles (maybe even worse).
Click to expand...

This is just not true. Every console has its ups and downs in terms of release years. Wasn't Sony's fall releases pretty abysmal? Nintendo I am sure has also had software droughts. Microsoft may not have much this year but will compensate next year. It is just wrong that exclusive wise they are worlds away from the competition in terms of quantity in the AAA space. Indies is another matter though as they are most certainly getting slaughtered in that space and it is a worrying trend.

Steverulez said:
Also being outsold when its cheaper is misleading, it outsold PS4 in the US over the holidays when it was cheaper, and spent 1/3 of January at a higher price (which was a lower month all round) its not like its been cheaper for 18 months
Click to expand...


They were outsold when they were cheaper for most of the month in January period. They will be easily outsold in February as well going by the trends in Amazon which have been bloody accurate so far as a basis for NPD prediction. At this price they will be outsold.
 
U

Ushay

Member
This thread made me aware of who was developing Phantom Dust, and now dropped, perhaps their vision or scope didn't meet the requirement MS had?
 
R

Ramenman

Member
LukeTim said:
The implication was of a deliberate misleading of consumers.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, so that's why I thought your point made no sense.
Great, now I can also tell you're upset about nothing.

Terbinator said:
ITT: OP gets confused by his own smoke and mirrors.
Click to expand...

Seriously.



Also, it's so easy especially for a huge company (= does a lot of stuff here and there) to just cherry pick 5 things that happens to everyone else and call it something terrible with a problematic-sounding title.



Ushay said:
This thread made me aware of who was developing Phantom Dust, and now dropped, perhaps their vision or scope didn't meet the requirement MS had?
Click to expand...

Noooo ! it's sheer cruelty and canceling a perfectly fine game that was going to sell millions just to lie to us poor players, their favorite toys !
 
Shrennin

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Steverulez said:
Given how badly they were screwing up Halo 2 in an attempt to also make a new IP (and that when this happened they had only done 3 Halo games) I don't consider the situation all that unfair. Perhaps later on they would have been given a chance to make something else too but its not like there isn't two sides to that story.
Click to expand...

We've also seen what a non-Halo game is for Bungie (post Halo) and I, for one, was not impressed. Destiny was more marketing than anything else.
 
T

THRILLH0

Banned
LukeTim said:
  1. Microsoft in this instance, are only being compared with Sony and Nintendo. The entire point of this thread is to highlight Microsoft’s apparent frontloading of their new hardware with the promise of new intellectual property from a number of teams in order to make the Xbox One appear as a more appealing investment, or at least a safe investment for quality exclusive content compared to its competition at that point in time.
  2. Microsoft have already failed to deliver on Halo:MCC, The Phantom Dust, the ‘major new IP’ from Black Tusk. Other studios which have been opened for a large period of time are also yet to debut anything of notice. Somebody on page one cited that this is incompetent as opposed to malevolence, I disagree. These instances are happening to a significantly heavier degree from Microsoft as opposed to Nintendo or Sony who are the majority of the time delivering with their exclusive content.
  3. Sony and Nintendo draw some comparisons. Drive Club was indeed broken, and of course this is not excusable. However it can be noted that the Halo series holds a significantly larger degree of commercial weight than Drive Club, and thus its failings as a product only serve to affect a larger number of people.
  4. Further comparisons are The Last Guardian and SMT x FE – Two titles from Sony and Nintendo respectively which have yet to see gameplay. Difference here being that both of these titles are ultra-niche in comparison to the promises of IP such as Crackdown and ‘An IP with the scale and impact of Halo’.
  5. Many have brought up 'CloudGine' as a developer for Crackdown. I find the idea that a new, unproven cloud processing company, whose staff numbers at 12 people and consists of no artists, sound engineers, artificial intelligence specialists or other expected roles, are in development of a full AAA title by themselves.
Click to expand...

1. Every manufacturer frontloads the console release cycle with software announcements. This is not malevolent.

Goalpost moved

2. As others have pointed out, there is not as big a difference between Microsoft and Sony/Nintendo as you originally suggested. At worst, this is proof that they are slightly more incompetent. This is not malevolent.

Goalpost moved

3. So now you're saying that because MCC is a bigger IP than Driveclub, it's failure suggests deliberate deception in order to somehow enhance consumer goodwill towards Microsoft? No, this is not malevolent.

Goalpost moved

4. The last good Crackdown game was released in 2007. To suggest it, as an IP, is on par with Halo is uhh, shady at best. This is not malevolent.

Goalpost moved

5. So you were proven wrong in your assertion that Crackdown's developer doesn't exist so now you're making a judgement call that they're too small to count? This is not malevolent.

Goalpost moved


Total goalposts moved: 5/5

Overall ranking: Shady as fuck
 
T

Three

Member
G

Game4life

Banned
Ushay said:
This thread made me aware of who was developing Phantom Dust, and now dropped, perhaps their vision or scope didn't meet the requirement MS had?
Click to expand...

Shit happens. SSM cancelled a huge project that was in development for a few years. That's just how it is sometimes.
 
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