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[BeeDog]

Didn't take long for the "Bu... Bu-... But Sony too!" posts, though I do agree with the core point; I don't see these MS examples as anything particularly damning. The new business climate within the game world is most likely the main root cause for these kinds of things.

 

[enMTW]

Source or video? I never heard of it being playable to the press. It was likely playable internally. Big difference.

I am not going to source that comment, though if you do a bit of research you would find that I was heavily involved in the DaE/PS4+Xbox One specs leak. There are numerous pre-release documents relating to both systems, leaked, with my name all over them.

Good example would be the Kotaku PS4 spec rundown. Share button, etc.

That said, NTKernl said the same thing when he did his leak spree if memory serves.

--

It was never playable to the press. The title was never even announced. That said, what you see in the Black Tusk unveil video is a playable vertical slice. Climb the tower, break in, take out the guard, disguise yourself, make your way down, break into the safe, etc etc etc.

Didn't take long for the "Bu... Bu-... But Sony too!" posts, though I do agree with the core point; I don't see these MS examples as anything particularly damning. The new business climate within the game world is most likely the main root cause for these kinds of things.

It's not 'Sony too!' it's 'Sony is way worse about it.'

It's like being angry Phil smokes weed or something when Yoshida is shooting heroin on stage at E3.

 

[CoG]

Rare

When Rare can't be trusted to do a modern KI what good is the Rare name? Does Rare even exist anymore in any form other than a handful of unused IPs?

 

[Shaunboy97]

How is this even thread worthy?

Why am I even posting here...

 

[Poodlestrike]

When Rare can't be trusted to do a modern KI what good is the Rare name? Does Rare even exist anymore in any form other than a handful of unused IPs?

Viva Pinata was pretty great.

 

[Kampfheld]

How is this even thread worthy?

Why am I even posting here...

Und warum liegt hier eigentlich Stroh?

Spoiler

Only germans will get that one

When Rare can't be trusted to do a modern KI what good is the Rare name? Does Rare even exist anymore in any form other than a handful of unused IPs?

If I remember correctly Rare created one of their most succesful IP under MS. I obviously get what you want to tell, but still.

 

[DarthWalden]

When Rare can't be trusted to do a modern KI what good is the Rare name? Does Rare even exist anymore in any form other than a handful of unused IPs?

Lol, I can only imagine what KI would be like if Rare did it.

I think the decision to give it to a team of passionate KI fans and professional fighting game players and let the original creator of the game (Ken lobb) over see it was a much better decision (and one of the better decisions MS has made lately).

 

[Derpyduck]

Either my definition of "shady" is broken or the OP's is. What he described is what I'd call business. It's unfortunate, but it happens.

 

[enMTW]

Lol, I can only imagine what KI would be like if Rare did it.

I think the decision to give it to a team of passionate KI fans and professional fighting game players and let the original creator of the game (Ken lobb) over see it was a much better decision (and one of the better decisions MS has made lately).

They were even able to move it to another team (when Amazon bought DoubleHelix) and barely miss a beat.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

I am not going to source that comment, though if you do a bit of research you would find that I was involved in the DaE/PS4+Xbox One specs leak. There are numerous pre-release documents relating to both systems, leaked, with my name all over them.

Good example would be the Kotaku PS4 spec rundown. Share button, etc.

That said, NTKernl said the same thing when he did his leak spree if memory serves.

--

It was never playable to the press. The title was never even announced. That said, what you see in the Black Tusk unveil video is a playable vertical slice. Climb the tower, break in, kill a guard, make your way down, break into the safe, etc etc etc.



It's not 'Sony too!' it's 'Sony is way worse about it.'

It's like being angry Phil smokes weed or something when Yoshida is shooting heroin on stage at E3.

Hmm thought it was stated it was CG. It certainly didn't appear playable.

regardless I never said it was MS only that did this, anyone remember EA last year? However, until actual gameplay surfaces of any game I am skeptical of its release, and MS has had a propensity to do that lately and it has worked for some titles and not for others.

Edit: as to whether it is shady I simply stated I could see where op is coming from slightly because CG trailers with nothing to back them up exist only to hype people up and get them to buy your console. Regardless if that game exists or not.

 

[Sponge]

When Rare can't be trusted to do a modern KI what good is the Rare name? Does Rare even exist anymore in any form other than a handful of unused IPs?

Exactly. Who's fault is it Rare lost so much of it's talent though? Rare didn't restructure itself when Microsoft made them do Kinect Sports. Microsoft is just as much to blame as Rare is for their failures, maybe even more.

The decisions Microsoft made with KI were superb, though.

 

[Megatron]

Indeed. I wonder how OP would classify the last Guardian.

And the driveclub plus edition mess?

 

[Juanfp]

When OG Xbox was failing, they stopped supporting the console, and just plain killed it.
When Xbox 360 was succeeding, they shifted their focus on Kinect and severely slowed down their second/third party deals.

I don't know if Spencer is the messiah we have all been waiting for, but I think it's a bit far fetched to believe a few changes in the organizational structure will put an end to this recurring problem at Microsoft Studios. History isn't on our side in any cases...

I have always believed that this change of strategy mid-life was a bad thing, and possibly something that could help explaining the sales difference between Xbox One and PS4 despite the good number of exclusives on Microsoft's console. In any case, it's much more "shadier" that closing down unproductive studios and canning games in developpement hell.

I have read that OG xbox support end because bads deals with Nvida that lead to a lot of money loss

 

[enMTW]

Hmm thought it was stated it was CG. It certainly didn't appear playable.

regardless I never said it was MS only that did this, anyone remember EA last year? However, until actual gameplay surfaces of any game I am skeptical of its release, and MS has had a propensity to do that lately and it has worked for some titles and not for others.

I don't mean literally the video is gameplay. It is a 'awesomed' version of an actual gameplay segment. Whoever MS had make the trailer was given a gameplay run through and were told to 'do that'.

Gameplay existing doesn't really mean much, though. With the exception of Phantom Dust/Agent games are almost always announced when gameplay exists in some form, just out of necessity.

It would be fair to say that a game doesn't really exist until it is a year or less away from release. Fair, reasonable.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Hmm thought it was stated it was CG. It certainly didn't appear playable.

regardless I never said it was MS only that did this, anyone remember EA last year? However, until actual gameplay surfaces of any game I am skeptical of its release, and MS has had a propensity to do that lately and it has worked for some titles and not for others.

I can understand your hesitancy in this regard. However, I'm not particularly bothered if a game is announced with CG. I am bothered if a game is announced and goes over a year without any new information, whatsoever.

Then there is reason to be concerned. Although I was disappointed with EA's press conference at E3 last year, at least they had the developer's talking about their plans and visions for the game, which is still a sign that they are actively developing their projects.

AS for Phantom Dust itself ... I'm not particularly interested since it's a card game, but I am curious to see how it turns out and would be disappointed if this reshuffling is just corporate speak for, "The game is cancelled."

But it'd be better to cancel a game that would tarnish the memory of it's predecessor, than to release it anyways. See the Master Chief Collection for an indication of such things.

 

[Darksol]

I don't think they're shady, just stupid.

 

[enMTW]

I have read that OG xbox support end because bads deals with Nvida that lead to a lot of money loss

Bigger part was the hard drive, which was exorbitantly expensive (and about to get more so : it was 2006, SATA was about to happen on the mainstream)

 

[CoG]

Viva Pinata was pretty great.

Yup. But that was nearly a decade ago.

 

[Sponge]

Yup. But that was nearly a decade ago.

And not to mention, lots of people who worked on that game are not at Rare anymore.

Then again, that seems to be the case with most of Microsoft's franchises now. (Gears, Halo) so I'm not sure.

 

[Snorlocs]

I don't think they're shady, just stupid.

I think this sums it up very well actually

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

I don't mean literally the video is gameplay. It is a 'awesomed' version of an actual gameplay segment. Whoever MS had make the trailer was given a gameplay run through and were told to 'do that'.

Gameplay existing doesn't really mean much, though. With the exception of Phantom Dust/Agent games are almost always announced when gameplay exists in some form, just out of necessity.

It would be fair to say that a game doesn't really exist until it is a year or less away from release. Fair, reasonable.

Which is why more games need a short pr cycle like that. Bloodborne and Sunset Overdrive are both great examples of that as the released just about a year from announcement. I love the 6 month announce to release even more.

 

[stuminus3]

This is what happens when you all fall for it. Every single time.

 

[enMTW]

Which is why more games need a short pr cycle like that. Bloodborne and Sunset Overdrive are both great examples of that as the released just about a year from announcement. I love the 6 month announce to release even more.

The problem, of course, is what to do if the game's existence leaks.

 

[GhostWriter24]

Dead to me after they shut down Ensemble.

 

[TomShoe]

The problem, of course, is what to do if the game's existence leaks.

You announce it at the next conference or whenever convenient. I remember the Project Beast thread on GAF, people were pretty excited for the official announcement.

 

[Tempy]

OP is delusional.

 

[enMTW]

You announce it at the next conference or whenever convenient. I remember the Project Beast thread on GAF, people were pretty excited for the official announcement.

MS seems committed to only doing (big) game announcements at E3. They would have to change that I guess.

 

[mrlion]

This is the definition of ‘shady’ as represented by the Oxford English dictionary; the most respectable source of lexical meaning in the world.

http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/177232?redirectedFrom=shady#eid

Entry 5: Of questionable merit or prospects of success; uncertain, unreliable.

This is a further definition as found by a simple google search.

of doubtful honesty

I get the impression that members of this thread seem to exclusively appropriate the word ‘shady’ to something found within an episode of House of Cards or Mad Men, this is patently incorrect and will not be considered further.

I had not been explicit enough within the thread title, let me clarify some issues.

1. Microsoft in this instance, are only being compared with Sony and Nintendo. The entire point of this thread is to highlight Microsoft’s apparent frontloading of their new hardware with the promise of new intellectual property from a number of teams in order to make the Xbox One appear as a more appealing investment, or at least a safe investment for quality exclusive content compared to its competition at that point in time.
2. Microsoft have already failed to deliver on Halo:MCC, The Phantom Dust, the ‘major new IP’ from Black Tusk. Other studios which have been opened for a large period of time are also yet to debut anything of notice. Somebody on page one cited that this is incompetent as opposed to malevolence, I disagree. These instances are happening to a significantly heavier degree from Microsoft as opposed to Nintendo or Sony who are the majority of the time delivering with their exclusive content.
3. Sony and Nintendo draw some comparisons. Drive Club was indeed broken, and of course this is not excusable. However it can be noted that the Halo series holds a significantly larger degree of commercial weight than Drive Club, and thus its failings as a product only serve to affect a larger number of people.
4. Further comparisons are The Last Guardian and SMT x FE – Two titles from Sony and Nintendo respectively which have yet to see gameplay. Difference here being that both of these titles are ultra-niche in comparison to the promises of IP such as Crackdown and ‘An IP with the scale and impact of Halo’.
5. Many have brought up 'CloudGine' as a developer for Crackdown. I find the idea that a new, unproven cloud processing company, whose staff numbers at 12 people and consists of no artists, sound engineers, artificial intelligence specialists or other expected roles, are in development of a full AAA title by themselves.

I see many faces in here that are always disappointed when a Microsoft projects goes awry, yet it seems they are willing to be tricked again and again and again.

That still doesn't describe "shady" in any way, shape or form...just because they are promising new IPs doesn't mean they are shady it simply means they are experiencing hardships in their business.

Shady would be something like Early Access which happens a lot for example Cube World where people bought an incomplete game to support it and the developer simply left it or just didn't pay attention to it (still haven't to this day but he promised he's "working very hard on it") or Kickstarters like that Yogscast game where they got half a million dollars and they cancelled the game but didn't refund the donations back.

Those are shady practices...promising IPs and not delivering isn't.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

OP is delusional.

Mods should rename the thread and tag him like in other threads.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

I don't think they are in the habit of spending millions of dollars on new studios, employees, equipment and time, for two years, just as a PR exercise.

Things change.
They don't have them planned that way from the start. Sometimes you cut your losses.

And the Black Tusk thing? Well, that seems fair game. There are considerably more people, numbering presumably in the millions, that would rather have a new shiny Gears game, than some other game they never heard of. I don't think this is really debatable. After buying the IP, they would be fools to not put their best team on it.

 

[Alo0oy]

There's nothing shady going on here.

For comparison, we have been waiting for Team ICO to deliver since 2005.

 

[twobear]

What kind of malevolence are you even attributing to them though, the kind that actively enjoys wasting money for the sake of laying people off? I don't even get it.

 

[kinoki]

I don't think Microsoft is shady. They just run a business that treats their customers like people you manipulate into buying your product instead of actually creating a product that they want to buy. If they create a product that the consumer actually want to buy, like the Xbox 360, they're flabbergasted and try to figure out the scientific method so they can distill it into other products. I think they have the wrong idea of how to treat their customers. I do think there is goodwill inside Microsoft but they're too big and have a bad culture to work through. They treat their studios in the same way.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It speaks to managerial incompetence (whether closing it down is incompetence or setting up something you have no use for in the longrun is incompetence is up to the reader, I suppose), but not really shadiness.

Unless the Xbox One is a Producers-like scam which I would have believed around summer 2013.

 

[staticneuron]

Didn't take long for the "Bu... Bu-... But Sony too!" posts, though I do agree with the core point; I don't see these MS examples as anything particularly damning. The new business climate within the game world is most likely the main root cause for these kinds of things.

Always happens in these threads. One person cannot speak about a company alone before a competitor or both competitors are brought in.

Personally, I don't care about "how" MS manages their companies as long as the final result is favorable for gamers. And this is what makes me worried. While we are ssing that they are bringing back some popular franchises such as crackdown and even catering to the niche with phantom dust. How can one feel comfortable after the mess that is MCC. Being a fan of new IP it is disheartening to hear that new IP was canned in favor of bringing back Gears. What worries me is that MS is going to try a MCC situation with gears and mess it up. While I think the idea of remastered gears or better yet a collection is awesome, I would hope that it could work properly at launch.

And to be honest I am just a bit worried at the output the first party is putting out which makes the shady stuff they did with SE understandable. Last gen MS didn't have to rely on first party as much thanks to the deals they made with other companies and the early headstart. Now that is gone away it seems as if they have reached so far ahead of themselves they are stumbling after the markets reaction to their console.

 

[twobear]

Unless the Xbox One is a Producers-like scam which I would have believed around summer 2013.

I was honestly starting to think the same thing.

 

[LiamR]

This is certainly not exclusive to Microsoft. And Cloudgine is the developer of the new Crackdown. OP, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Gnome Scat]

Based Phil can only work so fast to fix up the mess MS is in, give it time.

 

[Ont]

I trust Ken Lobb/Adam Isgreen to do the right with Phantom Dust development.

They have been handling the development of Killer Instinct really well, in spite of the fact that they had to change the developer for that game.

There is nothing shady about companies being closed. It is quite normal thing that happens in every industry.

 

[prwxv3]

Based Phil can only work so fast to fix up the mess MS is in, give it time.

wat. He is the one that got Phantom Dust greenlit.

 

[PhatSaqs]

ITT: OP gets confused by his own smoke and mirrors.

lmao pretty much

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

The problem, of course, is what to do if the game's existence leaks.

Both MS and Sony handled that pretty well last year I think with Bloodborne, MCC and FH2.

 

[abadguy]

They were even able to move it to another team (when Amazon bought DoubleHelix) and barely miss a beat.

Helps tha IG was the original studio they were going to approach before DH showed them a prototype. Still i wish MS had just aquired the studio. Clearly there was talent there and it doen't seem like Amazon is doing anything special with them.

 

[staticneuron]

That still doesn't describe "shady" in any way, shape or form...just because they are promising new IPs doesn't mean they are shady it simply means they are experiencing hardships in their business.

Shady would be something like Early Access which happens a lot for example Cube World where people bought an incomplete game to support it and the developer simply left it or just didn't pay attention to it (still haven't to this day but he promised he's "working very hard on it") or Kickstarters like that Yogscast game where they got half a million dollars and they cancelled the game but didn't refund the donations back.

Those are shady practices...promising IPs and not delivering isn't.

If this was about promising IP from third parties that would be understandable. Non of the first parties have control over third party titles just empty agreements at times. But if you are like, look at all these first party studios, only to hear nothing about them year later, then that is very shady. Advertising that you are going to make something with internal studios only to (supposedly) cancel new IP, reorganize active studios on a new game, and have nothing to say from the other first party companies, seem misleading to me.

Like I said before. It doesn't bother me as much as long as they eventually release some good stuff but now I don't really have anything to look forward to besides crackdown.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

This is certainly not exclusive to Microsoft. And Cloudgine is the developer of the new Crackdown. OP, you don't know what you're talking about.

This post is funny, because Cloudgine are not a developer. Their tech is being used in the game, but they are not making it.

 

[Lys Skygge]

This is a silly thread. The MCC failure is the only shady thing on your list and we already have multiple threads about that.

Everything else you've mentioned are just business decisions. Shit happens.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

I don't think they seem shady, just dumb. MS in general seems a bit aimless lately.

EA is shady, they pull all kinds of BS and still squeeze out tons of my money.

 

[Dragonborn]

EGh, it's just incompetence. We have three generations worth of history now to properly judge MS and their general MO. Nothing has chnaged so far, not even after the great savior arrived.

Take this year for example. There is not a single prominent exusive for MONTHS (I'll assume the first one will be QB). With a console that'd struggling to keep up with its competition even though it's cheaper and bundled with games, that kind of thing is just insane and highlights the weakness that is their first party. It's a Wii U level gap in terms of exclusive titles (maybe even worse).

 

[mrlion]

If this was about promising IP from third parties that would be understandable. Non of the first parties have control over third party titles just empty agreements at times. But if you are like, look at all these first party studios, only to hear nothing about them year later, then that is very shady. Advertising that you are going to make something with internal studios only to (supposedly) cancel new IP, reorganize active studios on a new game, and have nothing to say from the other first party companies, seem misleading to me.

Like I said before. It doesn't bother me as much as long as they eventually release some good stuff but now I don't really have anything to look forward to besides crackdown.

That would be true...only if said companies were ONLY working on that one promised IP. But they have various other projects to work on and that they've released which they market and get people hyped up (maybe). They're not relying on their new IPs that they promise which is why Microsoft doesn't give much attention to it and that is why incompetence, rather than shadiness, is shown.

 

[CalamityPixel]

Helps tha IG was the original studio they were going to approach before DH showed them a prototype. Still i wish MS had just aquired the studio. Clearly there was talent there and it doen't seem like Amazon is doing anything special with them.

I've was saying to my friends during KI season 1, that MS should aquire DH. MS could beef up the studio and they could have become a key part of the Xbox family.

God damn Amazon. So much potential gone.