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[entremet]

Nah, they're pretty transparent!

Because Sony and Nintendo are charities?

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

I kinda see where OP is coming from. Announcing projects and teams even way before they have anything tangible outside of a CG trailer can be seen as a ploy to create buyers now and if they fail to deliver then at least they got some folks to buy the console. I mean imagine MS E3 last year without the Scalebound, Crackdown, or Phantom Dust trailers.

That said it is just as likely mismanagement is at play. However, how trustworthy will the CG trailers be at this years E3 from MS?

Need I remind you that both Fable Legends and Sunset Overdrive were announced with CG trailers? Bloodborne too.

Now, how "trustworthy" were those CG trailers? Did the developer's not deliver on the vision present in them?

 

[Love Deterrence]

Because Sony and Nintendo are charities?

Heh. I was joking, mate. My bad.

 

[Pound_lb003]

Just because their IPs aren't handled by a first party developer they're shady?

They've closed no more studios than Sony have in the past couple years. Probably less!

 

[flkraven]

As for software pubs, people just fucking love piling up onto EA and Ubisoft to bash them at every possible opportunity. Of the major hardware publishers, no one gets a bigger circle jerk going than a MS is shady/evil/sucks thread. Even if they are baseless or common situations.

 

[Steverulez]

When it comes to Ensemble wasn't MS the one pushing for them to develop Xbox games instead of continue their already successful work on PC?

They have a history of poor decisions by people on top positions.

Former Ensemble Studios developer Paul Bettner has blamed himself and Ensemble's studio culture for the company's demise and has refused to condemn Microsoft for the developer's closure.

Speaking at the recent Game Developers Conference (GDC), as reported by sister site Eurogamer, Bettner commented: "The reality is that every single game we shipped took twice as long as we said it was going to take, and cost twice as much to make."

"Microsoft is a public company, they answer to their shareholders, and we were simply too expensive."

Games Industry.biz

Its a shame Ensemble got closed, but the words of their own developer cant really get much clearer about why they got closed.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Just let me add this to the conversation please, since there is always a reverse of the medal and treating decisions and look at them just from one side seems a little bit selective.

Victoria/Ensemble closing? Well, you act like as if MS is closing studios just for fun, which obviously is not right. With every closing there are reasons why things are happening. Especially in the case of Ensemble the studio was a nightmare in terms of performance, costs and value. There are multiple articles on the web where developers even agree with this. Sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions. Victoria was stucked in early developement stages and incubation for far too long with zero output and no concrete results. When people lose their jobs - this is a very bad thing. For the individuals these decisions suck. It will always suck. And whatever the reason are - it will still suck for every single one. For the general decision seen from a business standpoint itself - there are always reasons prior to things happening. Like always in life sometimes these reasons are justified - and sometimes not so much.

Crackdown is in full-production. Just give it some time please. I try to give as much updates in the Crackdown thread as I can at the moment. Rest assured we are working super hard to deliver something big. I can talk much more about Crackdown with you guys later this year. I like having an open discussion with the community - so I hope that's how we can handle things later

So how many inches away from you was Phil Spencer standing when you typed this?

 

[prwxv3]

Its not shady is poor management. Stop with announcing games too early. Game like SOTB, crackdown, Phantom Dust, and Scalebound where announced way to early. I wil. be mad if Sony or MS use CGI trailers of future games for E3.

 

[Juanfp]

Because, besides a few exception (japanese games on PS4 because Xbox One is non existent, indies focusing on a single platform), no developper/editor will build a big exclusive game without a big check in return. It's common sense.

Anyway, his point isn't that they aren't supporting the console, on the contrary. He is just assuming that they will stop supporting it with third party exclusives after a while.

Well with that apart its really hard to discuss with what they did with the 360, but I think that that will not happen becuase the recent changes of administration of MS, not only refering to Spencer and also this gen they are begin and stopping exclusive will only kill the console, again this is what I think.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I think I would've went with shittiness over shadiness in the title.

 

[Castef]

No kidding. Closing Studio Liverpool. Last Guardian's mystery status. The fact that Gran Turismo games take forever to release. Announcing The Agency, then closing the studio developing it four years later. Driveclub delayed, then broken, and still not available for PS+.

Announcing a huge deal with Valve which later revealed to be... What?

Announcing an exclusive deal with NCSoft which delivered nothing.

Announcing Everquest Next and Z1N1, then selling the online division...

I mean... The list could go on and on...

I know, also Microsoft did some weird things, yet the OT is very... "Thin" in facts.

With the exclusion of MCC: that is a real mess.

 

[Concept17]

Shady isn't the right term, and like others have said, its more to do with poor management and likely poor communication within Microsoft, as they've been struggling with such things for awhile now.

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

They got themselves into a hole by deciding that Kinect was the future and wanted to make their next gen console and all singing all dancing entertainment machine.

They took their eye off the ball and forgot about the things that got them into a position of strength at the start of last gen in the 1st place.

If you watch the Xbox One's reveal again everything you need to know can be seen there. The DRM issues were just a small part of it despite that being the thing it got the most negative press for.



Nobody cares. There is a long list of companies you can do the same thing for. The fact is, the OP only mentioned Microsoft and thus that is the topic at hand.

crabs in a bucket mentality.

 

[Percy]

OP is wrong because Sony too(tm)?

 

[Kampfheld]

So how many inches away from you was Phil Spencer standing when you typed this?

Right now? I guess about 4900 miles.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

OP is wrong because Sony too(tm)?

Lack of substance and failing to pointing out actual shady practices.

 

[Doffen]

Right now? I guess about 4900 miles.

The power of HoloLens!

 

[Ol No Bones]

So how many inches away from you was Phil Spencer standing when you typed this?

Phil could have been standing right next to him and he wouldn't know. That's one of the benefits of being hollow man.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

OP is wrong because Sony too(tm)?

OP is wrong because his analysis is flawed. The only real point he can make is the shameful mismanagement of the Halo MCC debacle.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Right now? I guess about 4900 miles.

Says the guy as Spencer's warm breath bares down on his neck.

The tiny hairs on his neck standing on edge. A faint whiff of vodka and red bull wafting through the air. A pitter patter of sweat rolling down his neck and back...

A sound of licking lips as Kampf hits post reply.

 

[John Bender]

Just let me add this to the conversation please, since there is always a reverse of the medal and treating decisions and look at them just from one side seems a little bit selective.

Victoria/Ensemble closing? Well, you act like as if MS is closing studios just for fun, which obviously is not right. With every closing there are reasons why things are happening. Especially in the case of Ensemble the studio was a nightmare in terms of performance, costs and value. There are multiple articles on the web where developers even agree with this. Sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions. Victoria was stucked in early developement stages and incubation for far too long with zero output and no concrete results. When people lose their jobs - this is a very bad thing. For the individuals these decisions suck. It will always suck. And whatever the reason are - it will still suck for every single one. For the general decision seen from a business standpoint itself - there are always reasons prior to things happening. Like always in life sometimes these reasons are justified - and sometimes not so much.

Crackdown is in full-production. Just give it some time please. I try to give as much updates in the Crackdown thread as I can at the moment. Rest assured we are working super hard to deliver something big. I can talk much more about Crackdown with you guys later this year. I like having an open discussion with the community - so I hope that's how we can handle things later

That's some nice PR, man

So how many inches away from you was Phil Spencer standing when you typed this?

lol

 

[GeordieMark]

OP is wrong because his analysis is flawed. The only real point he can make is the shameful mismanagement of the Halo MCC debacle.

There is analysis in the OP???

I just see someone who doesn't have the slightest clue how the industry works.

 

[flkraven]

Says the guy as Spencer's warm breath bares down on his neck.

The tiny hairs on his neck standing on edge. A faint whiff of vodka and red bull wafting through the air. A pitter patter of sweat rolling down his neck and back...

A sound of licking lips as Kampf hits post reply.

Easy there big fella. Better not think about that stuff infront of your kinect, amirite???

 

[Kampfheld]

Says the guy as Spencer's warm breath bares down on his neck.

The tiny hairs on his neck standing on edge. A faint whiff of vodka and red bull wafting through the air. A pitter patter of sweat rolling down his neck and back...

A sound of licking lips as Kampf hits post reply.

Okay, no screenshots for you in March. HA!

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Okay, no screenshots for you in March. HA!

Did you just confirm something? I think you did...

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

Says the guy as Spencer's warm breath bares down on his neck.

The tiny hairs on his neck standing on edge. A faint whiff of vodka and red bull wafting through the air. A pitter patter of sweat rolling down his neck and back...

A sound of licking lips as Kampf hits post reply.

lol! dude write a erotica book already.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Okay, no screenshots for you in March. HA!

OooooOOOOOooooh

 

[walltowall]

Did you just confirm something? I think you did...

I think he confirmed who we should blame if it doesn't happen.

 

[Kampfheld]

Did you just confirm something? I think you did...

OooooOOOOOooooh

I think he confirmed who we should blame if it doesn't happen.

No screenshots for you, you and you. Blame Miles for that. Well, I think we are going off-topic now ...

 

[Doffen]

That's some nice PR, man

You must be the first person who has ever complimented Microsoft on their Xbox PR work.

 

[Shabad]

Well with that apart its really hard to discuss with what they did with the 360, but I think that that will not happen becuase the recent changes of administration of MS, not only refering to Spencer and also this gen they are begin and stopping exclusive will only kill the console, again this is what I think.

When OG Xbox was failing, they stopped supporting the console, and just plain killed it.
When Xbox 360 was succeeding, they shifted their focus on Kinect and severely slowed down their second/third party deals.

I don't know if Spencer is the messiah we have all been waiting for, but I think it's a bit far fetched to believe a few changes in the organizational structure will put an end to this recurring problem at Microsoft Studios. History isn't on our side in any cases...

I have always believed that this change of strategy mid-life was a bad thing, and possibly something that could help explaining the sales difference between Xbox One and PS4 despite the good number of exclusives on Microsoft's console. In any case, it's much more "shadier" that closing down unproductive studios and canning games in developpement hell.

 

[JoshHood]

Lets be a little fair here.

Microsoft are very clearly trying hard to establish a string of high-quality first-party studios, each with their own big IPs. We've heard as much from the people at the top, and they've mentioned specifically being envious of the pedigree and first-party IP that Sony have built up.

That's not going to happen overnight though. The Victoria studio thing is a little weird, but after two years I can understand just wanting to try starting again. There may be more basic issues that would mean it makes more sense for Microsoft to establish new studios in other locations or with other base talent sets. Who knows.

I'm excited. I'm a PlayStation man through and through, but I would love to see a string of great releases from Microsoft that would justify owning their console. More great games is only ever going to be a good thing, and they clearly have intentions to do that. More power to them.

 

[John Bender]

You must be the first person who has ever complimented Microsoft on their Xbox PR work.

#sarcastic

 

[Doffen]

#sarcastic

I really couldn't tell going by your other posts.

 

[Digital-Hero]

When OG Xbox was failing, they stopped supporting the console, and just plain killed it.
When Xbox 360 was succeeding, they shifted their focus on Kinect and severely slowed down their second/third party deals.

I don't know if Spencer is the messiah we have all been waiting for, but I think it's a bit far fetched to believe a few changes in the organizational structure will put an end to this recurring problem at Microsoft Studios. History isn't on our side in any cases...

I have always believed that this change of strategy mid-life was a bad thing, and possibly something that could help explaining the sales difference between Xbox One and PS4 despite the good number of exclusives on Microsoft's console. In any case, it's much more "shadier" that closing down unproductive studios and canning games in developpement hell.

Gamecube was handled in the same manner...

 

[LukeTim]

I think we need a Mod on a title change, lol.

OP doesn't understand what shady means.

This is the definition of ‘shady’ as represented by the Oxford English dictionary; the most respectable source of lexical meaning in the world.

http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/177232?redirectedFrom=shady#eid

Entry 5: Of questionable merit or prospects of success; uncertain, unreliable.

This is a further definition as found by a simple google search.

of doubtful honesty

I get the impression that members of this thread seem to exclusively appropriate the word ‘shady’ to something found within an episode of House of Cards or Mad Men, this is patently incorrect and will not be considered further.

I had not been explicit enough within the thread title, let me clarify some issues.

1. Microsoft in this instance, are only being compared with Sony and Nintendo. The entire point of this thread is to highlight Microsoft’s apparent frontloading of their new hardware with the promise of new intellectual property from a number of teams in order to make the Xbox One appear as a more appealing investment, or at least a safe investment for quality exclusive content compared to its competition at that point in time.
2. Microsoft have already failed to deliver on Halo:MCC, The Phantom Dust, the ‘major new IP’ from Black Tusk. Other studios which have been opened for a large period of time are also yet to debut anything of notice. Somebody on page one cited that this is incompetent as opposed to malevolence, I disagree. These instances are happening to a significantly heavier degree from Microsoft as opposed to Nintendo or Sony who are the majority of the time delivering with their exclusive content.
3. Sony and Nintendo draw some comparisons. Drive Club was indeed broken, and of course this is not excusable. However it can be noted that the Halo series holds a significantly larger degree of commercial weight than Drive Club, and thus its failings as a product only serve to affect a larger number of people.
4. Further comparisons are The Last Guardian and SMT x FE – Two titles from Sony and Nintendo respectively which have yet to see gameplay. Difference here being that both of these titles are ultra-niche in comparison to the promises of IP such as Crackdown and ‘An IP with the scale and impact of Halo’.
5. Many have brought up 'CloudGine' as a developer for Crackdown. I find the idea that a new, unproven cloud processing company, whose staff numbers at 12 people and consists of no artists, sound engineers, artificial intelligence specialists or other expected roles, are in development of a full AAA title by themselves.

I see many faces in here that are always disappointed when a Microsoft projects goes awry, yet it seems they are willing to be tricked again and again and again.

 

[Mentok]

There is analysis in the OP???

I just see someone who doesn't have the slightest clue how the industry works.

/thread.

Seriously, it just reads like "MS did something bad, get your brooms!"

 

[Dragonborn]

Some of this would be solved if MS stopped fluffing up their E3 with CGI.

 

[enMTW]

This is an insane thread. MS - once - announces a game that isn't ready to be announced. This, compared to Sony's endless stream of games that don't exist yet, partnerships that turn out to be nothing, games that are dead and canceled but Sony won't admit it...

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Need I remind you that both Fable Legends and Sunset Overdrive were announced with CG trailers? Bloodborne too.

Now, how "trustworthy" were those CG trailers? Did the developer's not deliver on the vision present in them?

Not saying all of them, and not exclusively MS either. But any CG only trailer that is not immediately followed up by gameplay shortly thereafter I am skeptical about. Bloodborne for instance had gameplay leaked prior to the CG trailer and had gameplay shown at the same event. Hardly the same as Phantom Dust, Crackdown, Scalebound, and whatever that black tusk game was (which is all the more funny because they showed it without even a name).

 

[walltowall]

No screenshots for you, you and you. Blame Miles for that. Well, I think we are going off-topic now ...

Awww shucks......

 

[Steverulez]

Some of this would be solved if MS stopped fluffing up their E3 with CGI.

You would be one of the first complain that Microsoft had nothing announced if they waited until every game was closer to release. I really don't get this problem you have with them announcing things, stuff gets canned/delayed or otherwise for plenty of reasons.

 

[Final Verdict]

People can argue back and forth on whether or not this is a "shady" business practice from MS. It is clear that MS has done it over and over to try to convince gamers that this time they are really going to support their system with a strong 1st party library.

But it does point to the reason why I will never buy a MS console. Serious first party studios are almost non-existent on Xbox. Always have been. Instead they throw around money to buy the best 3rd party exclusives at the beginning of a generation to get people to buy their console, then abandon even 3rd party exclusivity once they have the hardware numbers they are looking for.

Ok, this is simply not true.
you say that serious MS 1st party studios are non existent, but I can name plenty.

T10
343i
Lionhead
Black Tusk
Team Dakota
Press Play
Twisted Pixel
Rare

Sure they aren't as good or big as Nintendo's or Sony's 1st party, but the that is far from nonexzistent, and Microsoft have supported the 360 with exclusives all throughout it's ten years lifecycle.

This year they are bringing exclusives like:
-RotTR
-Ori
-Scream Ride

Last year they had:
-Titanfall
-Forza Horizon 2
-Project Spark
-Crimson Dragon
-Lococycle
-max the Curse of brotherhood
-The Crew (last-gen exclusive)

Maybe nothing on the 360 appealed to you, but please don't try to pretend like it has had no support after the first few years when it is still getting games this year.
I mean try to name me one non Indy exclusive that PS3 or Wii is getting this year? (Can be 1st or 3rd party)

 

[enMTW]

Not saying all of them, and not exclusively MS either. But any CG only trailer that is not immediately followed up by gameplay shortly thereafter I am skeptical about. Bloodborne for instance had gameplay leaked prior to the CG trailer and had gameplay shown at the same event. Hardly the same as Phantom Dust, Crackdown, Scalebound, and whatever that black tusk game was (which is all the more funny because they showed it without even a name).

That Black Tusk game (ShangHeist) existed in a playable form - it just wasn't 'time' to announce it yet. Too far away from release. Good move to, as that game is now dead.

 

[statham]

You must be the first person who has ever complimented Microsoft on their Xbox PR work.

roofles.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Nothing wrong with pure incompetence.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Not saying all of them, and not exclusively MS either. But any CG only trailer that is not immediately followed up by gameplay shortly thereafter I am skeptical about. Bloodborne for instance had gameplay leaked prior to the CG trailer and had gameplay shown at the same event. Hardly the same as Phantom Dust, Crackdown, Scalebound, and whatever that black tusk game was (which is all the more funny because they showed it without even a name).

And I'm saying that MS has in THIS generation announced games with CG trailers and followed them up with gameplay, within a year. This is more acceptable than showing a "gameplay" trailer and then not showing anything else for 5+ years.

I think you'll understand the reference I'm making.

 

[Pound_lb003]

This is the definition of ‘shady’ as represented by the Oxford English dictionary; the most respectable source of lexical meaning in the world.

http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/177232?redirectedFrom=shady#eid

Entry 5: Of questionable merit or prospects of success; uncertain, unreliable.

This is a further definition as found by a simple google search.

of doubtful honesty

I get the impression that members of this thread seem to exclusively appropriate the word ‘shady’ to something found within an episode of House of Cards or Mad Men, this is patently incorrect and will not be considered further.

I had not been explicit enough within the thread title, let me clarify some issues.

1. Microsoft in this instance, are only being compared with Sony and Nintendo. The entire point of this thread is to highlight Microsoft’s apparent frontloading of their new hardware with the promise of new intellectual property from a number of teams in order to make the Xbox One appear as a more appealing investment, or at least a safe investment for quality exclusive content compared to its competition at that point in time.
2. Microsoft have already failed to deliver on Halo:MCC, The Phantom Dust, the ‘major new IP’ from Black Tusk. Other studios which have been opened for a large period of time are also yet to debut anything of notice. Somebody on page one cited that this is incompetent as opposed to malevolence, I disagree. These instances are happening to a significantly heavier degree from Microsoft as opposed to Nintendo or Sony who are the majority of the time delivering with their exclusive content.
3. Sony and Nintendo draw some comparisons. Drive Club was indeed broken, and of course this is not excusable. However it can be noted that the Halo series holds a significantly larger degree of commercial weight than Drive Club, and thus its failings as a product only serve to affect a larger number of people.
4. Further comparisons are The Last Guardian and SMT x FE – Two titles from Sony and Nintendo respectively which have yet to see gameplay. Difference here being that both of these titles are ultra-niche in comparison to the promises of IP such as Crackdown and ‘An IP with the scale and impact of Halo’.
5. Many have brought up 'CloudGine' as a developer for Crackdown. I find the idea that a new, unproven cloud processing company, whose staff numbers at 12 people and consists of no artists, sound engineers, artificial intelligence specialists or other expected roles, are in development of a full AAA title by themselves.

I see many faces in here that are always disappointed when a Microsoft projects goes awry, yet it seems they are willing to be tricked again and again and again.

I think when you need to get that granular about defining them as shady, you've gotta realise you're making excuses for the other companies.

They all function differently. Microsoft has had some bad news recently. This time last year Sony was having bad news (along the same lines).

Projects don't always run perfectly, as the dichotomy of creative development always is.

 

[enMTW]

And I'm saying that MS has in THIS generation announced games with CG trailers and followed them up with gameplay, within a year. This is more acceptable that showing a gameplay trailer and then not showing anything else for 6+ years.

I think you'll understand the reference I'm making.

Or, going even further, announcing a game with a logo and never showing anything after.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

That Black Tusk game (ShangHeist) existed in a playable form - it just wasn't 'time' to announce it yet. Too far away from release. Good move to, as that game is now dead.

Source or video? I never heard of it being playable to the press. It was likely playable internally. Big difference.