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The Last Guardian confirmed for TGS 2015 - Interact with Trico's AI on a big screen

K

krYlon

Member
Trico is looking great. Animation looking great as always and can't wait to see how the AI turns out.

UrbanRats said:
Did you miss the "you can"? Point is, it's a very short game.
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Eh, apparently you can complete Dark Souls in an hour and a half. I think a better indicator of a game's length is the average first playthrough (on gamefaqs it's 13 hours for PS2 version, 11 hours for PS3). Yeah, ICO is pretty short but not "very short".
 
J

janoDX

Member
stryke said:
1442500479-tlg.gif
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We need text in there. A "gimme da ball!" moment.
 
R

raphier

Banned
OleGunner said:
This might end up being the smartest AI video game character we've ever seen.

I totally understand how the PS3 RAMjust couldn't simulate such realistic animal behaviour.
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BadWolf said:
Which is why they didn't want to run a live demo at E3, they couldn't predict how Trico would react.
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Hyperboole much?

If the AI is truly unpredictable then game becomes unplayable, because there's little chance to finish it.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
raphier said:
Hyperboole. If the AI is truly unpredictable then game becomes unplayable, because there's little change to finish it.
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It's not really hyperbole. Trico's AI is supposed to behave like an animal. So sometimes he's going to listen to you and sometimes he'll ignore you. Your treatment of him also impacts the way he reacts to what you want him to do. So they obviously don't want to live demo it and and him ignoring the player for an extended period of time.
 
C

Cave Johnson

Member
raphier said:
Hyperboole much?

If the AI is truly unpredictable then game becomes unplayable, because there's little chance to finish it.
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How so? As long as they're not breaking fundamental rulesets of the game's universe then how does it become unplayable? The smartest fish in a barrel is still a fish in a barrel - if you get my point.
 
M

Machinehead

Member
raphier said:
Hyperboole much?

If the AI is truly unpredictable then game becomes unplayable, because there's little chance to finish it.
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The unpredictability might make it not fun for a time strict demo being broadcasted worldwidely, though.
And it is probably also being worked on.
They certainly are aiming at something that feels animalistic, so somewhat simple to teach new behaviour but not totally under our control at all times.
 
C

Cave Johnson

Member
Machinehead said:
The unpredictability might make it not fun for a time strict demo being broadcasted worldwidely, though.
And it is probably also being worked on.
They certainly are aiming at something that feels animalistic, so somewhat simple to teach new behaviour but not totally under our control at all times.
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Likewise, it uses our medium to it's strengths which personalize players' agency in the game. Something like this isn't meant to be represented passively on a demo. It makes much sense as trying to engage in Candy Crush from a 2nd hand viewpoint.
 
R

raphier

Banned
Cave Johnson said:
How so? As long as they're not breaking fundamental rulesets of the game's universe then how does it become unplayable? The smartest fish in a barrel is still a fish in a barrel - if you get my point.
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the fundamentals of an AI impossible to predict lies in unscripted behaviour which is always connected to the player as in an unscripted AI will always beat the game by itself, before the player and not care about what player is doing - thus be unpredictable. See: Stalker's A-Life system before they changed to event-based routine.

There is nothing unpredictable in Trico's AI, which is why I though that people are overreacting with hyperbole. It's very well animated, but it's still just triggering to events.
 
C

Cave Johnson

Member
raphier said:
the fundamentals of an AI impossible to predict lies in unscripted behaviour which is always connected to the player as in an unscripted AI will always beat the game by itself, before the player and not care about what player is doing - thus be unpredictable. See: Stalker's A-Life system before they changed to event-based routine.

There is nothing unpredictable in Trico's AI, which is why I though that people are overreacting with hyperbole. It's very well animated, but it's still just triggering to events.
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But Trico cannot "beat" the game by itself, we've clearly seen that in the demo. This isn't a chess game where the fundamental rules are tied to it's mechanics and all the AI has to do is exploit the "optimal" pathway. It is mechanic that heavily relies on player's input, add this factor to Trico's behavior AI systems based on how you engage with makes it unpredictable. Notice how the player enacts a jump informing Trico to the action. It's not a contextual sequence where in most games that will 100% trigger that specific event. Who knows what the relationship Ueda has built up with him prior to the demo. As far as I recall that demo took place mid-way in the game.
 
M

MrHoot

Member
Cave Johnson said:
But Trico cannot "beat" the game by itself, we've clearly seen that in the demo. This isn't a chess game where the fundamental rules are tied to it's mechanics and all the AI has to do is exploit the "optimal" pathway. It is mechanic that heavily relies on player's input, add this factor to Trico's behavior AI systems based on how you engage with makes it unpredictable. Notice how the player enacts a jump informing Trico to the action. It's not a contextual sequence where in most games that will 100% trigger that specific event. Who knows what the relationship Ueda has built up with him prior to the demo. As far as I recall that demo took place mid-way in the game.
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I think the demo actually takes place like in the beginning. It's right after you rescue Trico for the first time
 
C

Cave Johnson

Member
MrHoot said:
I think the demo actually takes place like in the beginning. It's right after you rescue Trico for the first time
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It's not. Here is the report from E3:

And as helpful as Toriko may have looked at E3, Ueda is quick to point out that he’s not always so friendly. “The scene shown at E3 is from the mid-point of the game…but he won’t listen to you like that from the very start,” he asserts, a gameplay element similar to the hero’s often recalcitrant horse Argo is Shadow of the Colossus. “It’s not like Toriko and the boy get along at the beginning.”
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R

raphier

Banned
Cave Johnson said:
But Trico cannot "beat" the game by itself, we've clearly seen that in the demo. This isn't a chess game where the fundamental rules are tied to it's mechanics and all the AI has to do is exploit the "optimal" pathway. It is mechanic that heavily relies on player's input, add this factor to Trico's behavior AI systems based on how you engage with makes it unpredictable. Notice how the player enacts a jump informing Trico to the action. It's not a contextual sequence where in most games that will 100% trigger that specific event. Who knows what the relationship Ueda has built up with him prior to the demo. As far as I recall that demo took place mid-way in the game.
Click to expand...

Well of course one way to produce unpredictability is to introduce randomness, but I associate it with ability to adapt the algorithm itself as in learn new tricks without being monitored by the game, for example in that sequence where Trico is afraid of ancient warmachines, it waits for the player to do something there. What if instead of waiting it would run back or try to pass the platform to skip the machines (aka break the game by doing what player is supposed to solve)althought it does this in the demo, but in follow-mode.

I am just saying that Trico seems to be a standard AI with a lot of dynamic events around it. just saying. And when you really think about, The level looked very limited in what it can allow to unpredictable AI.
 
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