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Xbox One specs from Hot Chips session (8GB Flash, 1.31TFlops, 204GB/s peak BW)

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sono

Member
Good to see some MS verified figures. Isnt 204GB/s bandwidth more than PS4 ?

More like 40.5% right now.

That seems quite a difference, is it possible to do a rough translation of what that would mean for graphics or gameplay ?

Probably hard to tell what this may mean in the short term until devs really get into this new hardware
 

bj00rn_

Banned
I always try to go through a thread before posting. But for some reason I find it hard to wade through all the crap in this one.. Thanks for those trying to contribute though.

I'm just happy the thing is fast enough and silent enough to be my main media device (hopefully) (And for its exclusives of course).



Why are you posting this stuff? What's the point?
 
First number seems a 5:

XBO_diagram_WM.jpg


Also here:

XBO_GPU_WM.jpg


3something with coherent, 5something otherwise

CPU, GPU, special processors, and iO share memory via host-guest MMUs and synchronized page tables.

Essentially, combined with CPU-Cache-Coherent Memory Access, synchronized page tables, and the Host-Guest GPU Memory Management Unit, the available memory, be it DDR3 or ESRAM is all shared efficiently throughout the system and maintains coherency between both DDR3 and ESRAM. The blue path arrows seem to be an indication of an achievable coherent memory access between either the ESRAM or the DDR3. The thin black line from the CPU going straight down to the ESRAM seems to be saying that it's thanks to the ESRAM being piped through the Host-GUEST GPU MMU that coherency between the CPU and the ESRAM is maintained. The DDR3 doesn't seem to actually require any assistance from the Host Guest GPU MMU to maintain coherency with the CPU, since it has a more direct route. The GPU and ESRAM are pretty much right there with one another, and the MMU is exactly how the GPU communicates with everything else, so it makes sense that the ESRAM, which I think is confirmed to be directly on the chip, would operate through that same MMU as well.

So, Microsoft and AMD came up with their own unique solution for coherency and memory sharing that seemed necessary because the decision was made to include ESRAM. Doesn't fit the traditional definition of HUMA, but definitely a form of it, just achieved in a different way.

PS4: Edo Madara
Xbox One: Hashirama
Wii U: Sasuke.

You're dissing the PS4 with that Edo Madara comparison. Dude is mad pitiful and obsessed with all things Hashirama, and Hashirama still seems boss while utilizing his own power. Then again, there is that Edo Madara "trump card," whatever it may be. Cerny no jutsu perhaps? :)
 
If X1 isnt huma(n),is it dancer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIZdjT1472Y


Good to see some MS verified figures.

That seems quite a difference, is it possible to do a rough translation of what that would mean for graphics or gameplay ?

We have no benchmarks what impact esram has so for that part i don't know.
For the rest if you have to get one console and you want best multiplat experience
get an ps4 its cheaper and im pretty sure you must be an lousy dev to fuck development up for it.
 

IN&OUT

Banned
I pulled that 0.1TFlops straight out of my ass.

But still, 0.5TFlops is a meaningless therm for me, could someone compare that to a (old) console? Is it like XB1+Dreamcast scenario?



Why not let the ram go sleep directly?

Xb1+PS3+X360 < PS4

Xb1: 1.31 TF
PS3: 250 gflops
X360: 230 gflops

PS4: 1.84 TF
 

ekim

Member
Speaking at the Hot Chips engineering conference at Stanford University, Microsoft chip architect John Sell said the Xbox One’s main processor is a gargantuan beast, co-designed with Advanced Micro Devices and manufactured by contract chip manufacturer Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co.

The chip covers an area of 363 square millimeters and is built in a 28-nanometer state-of-the-art manufacturing process. It has 5 billion basic components, known as transistors, on a single chip that combines a microprocessor, graphics processor, and 47 megabytes of memory.

As one member of the audience remarked, that mean it’s a big chip. Such chips are hard to manufacture, as any small defect can render a chip inoperable. And the larger a chip, the more prone it is to small defects.

To deal with that, Sell said Microsoft designed in redundancies into the chip where it could, so that if one section was inoperable, it doesn’t kill the whole chip. Nevertheless, it means that it won’t be easy to churn out millions of such chips.


To make the chip more power efficient, Microsoft designed small islands and gates within the chip that could switch off certain areas so the overall chip consumes less power. Such techniques are standard in big chip projects these days, and they mean that only the parts of a chip that are being used are drawing power.

The central processing unit (CPU) has eight 64-bit Jaguar cores designed by AMD.

The graphics section of the main processor has 15 special processors that can handle things like graphics or physics processing. Data highways can transfer bits at a rate of 200 gigabytes per second or more across different parts of the chip. The audio subsystem has two dedicated vector cores.

Microsoft disclosed some details, but left many important pieces out. Evidently, Microsoft doesn’t want to tell all of its competitors about how well designed its system is.

http://venturebeat.com/2013/08/26/m...se-details-are-critical-for-the-kind-of-expe/
 
Don't think it's hUMA. I see a southbridge.

More like the 360's UMA.

I think you have a particular understanding of what hUMA means. Probably you are talking about a SOC.

About the 8GB flash memory, bear in mind that flash memory wears fast with writes. So probably is there just for storing OS and some background functions. It's a good way to get a fast response OS avoiding HDD access.
 

shandy706

Member
Seems the 1.3 was dead on with our guesses.

I find the .5TF arguments silly. Looking at some of the launch games, these two consoles are beasts when it comes to a closed environment. I do wish we had gotten more powerful consoles, but these should be fine for the next 5-7 years along side my PC.

1st party games are going to look incredible (Ryse, Killzone)....while ports may suffer from PC to the consoles....obviously, but that's why I have a gaming rig for cross-platforms.

Neither the PS4 or X1 could make me buy cross-platform for them over my PC. I'll take the exclusives gladly though.
 

IN&OUT

Banned
these DBZ comparison posts were funny the first 100 post, its getting really annoying now. what makes it worst is I didn't watch the show so I have no idea what they represent :/
 

jcm

Member
Not unless you want your XBox one to die due to FLASH wear out.

It's not the 90s anymore. Hibernating to flash is perfectly reasonable. So is storing the firmware itself on the flash, which is what the PS3 did until they ran out of room.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
so nothing new then? just the rumoured specs confirmed?

Pretty much,

As previously stated, the size of the chip is the real news. It's freaking huge.

Also, more peak bandwidth bullshit.
 

Taiser

Member
So are these confirmed now?

PS4: 1152 Shaders
Xbone: 768 Shaders


PS4: 72 Texture units
Xbone: 48 Texture units


PS4: 32 ROPS
Xbone: 16 ROPS
 
Isnt 204GB/s bandwidth more than PS4 ?

Be mindful of how the tech mags responded to Microsoft when they last claimed this.

Similarly, the company claimed that there was more than 200GB of bandwidth within the system. Again, the number had no context or clarification and if rumors are to be believed, it suggests some rather creative accounting: 68 GB main memory bandwidth, 102GB bandwidth to an embedded SRAM buffer for the GPU, and 30GB bandwidth between the CPU and GPU. While that does add up to 200GB, there are no two parts of the SoC that can communicate with each other at 200 GB/s (Ars Technica).

According to their data, there’s roughly 50GB/s of bandwidth in each direction to the SoC’s embedded SRAM (102GB/s total bandwidth). The combination of the two plus the CPU-GPU connection at 30GB/s is how Microsoft arrives at its 200GB/s bandwidth figure, although in reality that’s not how any of this works. (AnandTech)

Xbox One chip is a slightly different beast. It uses the same eight "Jaguar" 1.60 GHz cores, but a slightly smaller Radeon GPU that packs 768 stream processors, and a quad-channel DDR3-2133 MHz memory interface, which offers a memory bandwidth of 68.3 GB/s, and holding 8 GB of memory. Memory between the two subsystems are shared in a similar way to PlayStation 4, with one small difference. Xbox One chip uses a large 32 MB SRAM cache, which operates at 102 GB/s, but at infinitesimally lower latency than GDDR5. This cache cushions data-transfers for the GPU. Microsoft engineers are spinning this off as "200 GB/s of memory bandwidth," by somehow clubbing bandwidths of the various memory types in the system. (TechPowerup)
 
these DBZ comparison posts were funny the first 100 post, its getting really annoying now. what makes it worst is I didn't watch the show so I have no idea what they represent :/

That's your problem man, as crazy as it sounds DBZ power level makes sense fast when you are familiar with the show. Since there's a bunch of characters of different strengths compared to each other.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
So are these confirmed now?

PS4: 1152 Shaders
Xbone: 768 Shaders


PS4: 72 Texture units
Xbone: 48 Texture units


PS4: 32 ROPS
Xbone: 16 ROPS

Is it really as bad as that. Did MS gimp the Xbox One that badly?
 
these DBZ comparison posts were funny the first 100 post, its getting really annoying now. what makes it worst is I didn't watch the show so I have no idea what they represent :/

Watch the show. It's awesome. Actually. Just start from the beginning of the original Dragonball manga and do that instead. It's funny as shit.
 
Is it really as bad as that. Did MS gimp the Xbox One that badly?

They didn't seem to target raw power, more like Good enough difference to last a whole gen. Banking on Kinect and the OS to take advantage of it. Unlike the PS4 who went above and beyond even the wildest rumours.

Unless of course you believe the Cloud stuff, which would put the Xbox One over it.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
That looks like a somewhat over-designed piece of silicon to me. With so many components it places a lot of weight on the low-level OS/System libraries to make everything "play nice" (i.e. not stall) together, which forces higher levels of abstraction and hence performance hits.

I suspect that very much like the PS3, the problem will be that leveraging the benefits of the architecture will be more trouble than its worth for multi-platform projects. PS4 has the exact same benefits that 360 had over its predecessor, better gpu and a less byzantine memory layout, things that give an easily accessible headroom advantage.
 

ypo

Member
The combination of the two plus the CPU-GPU connection at 30GB/s is how Microsoft arrives at its 200GB/s bandwidth figure, although in reality that’s not how any of this works. (AnandTech)

Pretty much says it all really. MS is still drumming up BS speak till this day. Surprising they didn't mention clouds this cloud that for this conference.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Yep and @ cyberheater, its pretty bad in comparison.

I can see in the early days as devs come to grips with the hardware and have tight launch deadlines that the games will look very similar relative to graphics between the two machines. And it may be that some games genuinely look better on Xbox One because the devs implemented the right algorithms that suited the architecture of Xbox One.

But a year or so from now. When devs are working on their second or third next gen game. Then you'll start to see the difference. And that gap will only get larger.

The next 5 to 10 years is going to be horrible if you're an Xbox console warrior.
 

Dunlop

Member
Came into this thread, felt bad I did not understand the OP..felt worse when I realized I do not understand any of the DBZ references

damn I'm old
 
I don't believe MS is playing games with that ESRAM bandwidth. Whatever is going on, I don't think it's a simple combining of bandwidths. There's more about the ESRAM that likely has to be explained, because even if you combine every single pathway for bandwidth in the system, you still wouldn't get that number, or you would overshoot it by quite a bit, so there's something else going on, and the closest thing to an explanation that we have is the DF article about spare processing cycles and it being able to read and write simultaneously.
 

velociraptor

Junior Member
I can see in the early days as devs come to grips with the hardware and have tight launch deadlines that the games will look very similar relative to graphics between the two machines. And it may be that some games genuinely look better on Xbox One because the devs implemented the right algorithms that suited the architecture of Xbox One.

But a year or so from now. When devs are working on their second or third next gen game. Then you'll start to see the difference. And that gap will only get larger.

The next 5 to 10 years is going to be horrible if you're an Xbox console warrior.
I actually find it impressive how current Xbox One launch titles look as good as PS4 launch titles, despite the massive performance advantage the PS4 offers.
 
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