OriginalThinking
Member
50Hz is a blurry fucking mess? Yeah I'm watching F1 in HD here and I can't see shit except some fast moving colors. Is this the equivalent of 30fps is a "fucking slide show" hyperbole?
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Xbox One TV Integration is apparently 'broken' For UK & Europe: Sky 50Hz Stutter
- Thread starter dmr87
- Start date
50Hz is a blurry fucking mess? Yeah I'm watching F1 in HD here and I can't see shit except some fast moving colors. Is this the equivalent of 30fps is a "fucking slide show" hyperbole?
600hz would get rid of all problems with mixed 24hz, 50hz and 60hz footage, but that refresh rate is pretty high.
TBH we should have switched over to 60hz when HD came in, but broadcasters wanted to save on bandwidth so they stuck to 50hz.
I'm surprised X1 doesn't have a 50hz mode, especially considering 360 does.
stargateheaven
Member
i thought this too. but im pretty sure HD res stuff is, but SD is still 50hz.
Monty Mole
Member
Clearly, given the insane amount of 50hz content. Also worth noting that US TV dramas and comedies are all at 24hz, which actually display better on 50hz via speed up (no judder) than on 60hz with pull down (judder hell).
CurlySaysX
Banned
How do you think they are going to get day-one integration for Sky TV? Do you think Sky are going to give them access to their API? Why would Sky do that so Microsoft can push their services on top of Sky's content?
The whole thing is batshit.
MemoryHumanity
Member
A frankly ridiculous oversight if true.
Marvel
could never
No hyperbole, Sky HD at 50HZ is blurry. I've tried many different plasma too. 50HZ is crap when it comes to camera panning and sports such as football.
OriginalThinking
Member
I've got Virgin Media in HD. Whilst increased refresh rates would be welcome, it's a long way from being a "blurry fucking mess". By all means let's push for improvement but let's not destroy our credibility by making exaggerated statements.
EDIT: Most modern flat screens have motionflow shit which boosts to 100hz or 200hz. Artificial mind and makes movies look like they were shot with a home camcorder.
Thank you for this suggestion. I was having the same issue this morning and this fixed it.
Huggers
Member
You make an excellent point. One that should have been made by someone at Microsoft
Monty Mole
Member
50hz isn't "blurry". You clearly don't understand how these things work so I wouldn't get in to a heated argument about it if you want to avoid embarrassment.
Marvel
could never
Noted. My eyes are overly sensitive though to judder/blur/impact lag and pixels, I can't seem to find any comfort really in my TV viewing heh. Wish it weren't so.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
What cable box do you have?
I had a similar problem with Blu-Ray playback. The entire UI went black, and only a cold boot fixed it. I guess it was a problem with the HDCP handshake, because curiously after that even my PS3 could not playback the disk. Only a reboot of my AVR and TV solved the issue.
Monty Mole
Member
Get a CRT.
blitzcloud
Banned
i'm laughing here because 50hz doesn't make things blurry, it has to do with the refresh rate, or in layman terms, the fps output.
NTSC system is known for having lesser resolution, which does make the picture blurrier in the global scope.
Also PAL has progressive system (i think UK has a system of their own. They just wanna be the odd one), which means that compared to the interlaced system, there's actually more frames per second rendered as a whole, while the NTSC system is interlaced, sending an interlaced signal of 1 frame difference, which creates the combing effect in broadcasts that have a big frame difference.
Having said that, adding 10 frames to match the 60hz means sending 20% more data per second. It's a big cost that an already established system can't take care of.
I see, thanks for clarifying. I had no idea!
You are insane if you think it's blurry. Either that or you have chosen the wrong word.
A silver Motorola one from Mediacom. You?
bigbaldwolf86
Banned
There was a thread not too long ago that raised this concern. I guess he/she was right and it was a good thought. It's a shame MS didn't think of it though
Maybe you should try educating us.
Isn't most HD content in the UK filmed at 1080i anyway, I'm not sure about sport.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Well you're doing something wrong. My friend has Sky HD and it's crystal clear.
JetBlackPanda
Member
I like my car to get 50 rods to the hogs head and my TV in superior liberty inducing 60hz. Get up or shut up Yurop.
For reals though.. Microsoft.. How can they let this happen?
For reals though.. Microsoft.. How can they let this happen?
Terbinator
Member
I can confirm this. Noticed it straightaway yesterday with our Virgin TiVo box plugged into the Xbone. It was promptly unplugged.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Given that Asia, Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and Europe all use PAL. I'm surprised MS thought that having a HDMI in and forcing a framerate conversion would have been a sensible idea.
I really do think that someone very high up in MS mandated the TV in function and the rest of the Xbox One team were just forced to get it to work somehow.
I really do think that someone very high up in MS mandated the TV in function and the rest of the Xbox One team were just forced to get it to work somehow.
But they already announced that the TV functionality support was only ready in the Us, not anywhere else. So we knew before we bought it, our 'TV experience' wouldn't be working properly.
Marvel
could never
I have probably chosen the wrong words, I'm clearly out of my depth with these things judging from the responses I've gotten lol I'm struggling to articulate what I mean.
Got a 600HZ plasma downstairs that preforms ok on consoles at 60HZ but is still not great when sky is put on because of 50HZ? gaming is at 1080p but my Sky can only go up to 1080i, not sure if that's a factor also. Or maybe this plasma just sucks lol.
Blur is caused by reducing resolution. 50Hz does not reduce resolution. Actually, if we're speaking legacy SD broadcast material, PAL50 has higher resolution per frame than NTSC (plus higher color accuracy, but that's besides the point here).
Issues caused by reducing framerates are called "stutter", "choppiness", "dat slideshow feeling" etc. Definitely not blur.
There is a possible layer of artifacts introduced by particular displays trying to convert framerates one way or another. This is never ideal (cf this thread). These are however issues not fundamentally caused by the source material.
SirMossyBloke
Member
This is one of many reasons why I'm not buying the Xbox One. They only think of America. I'm not paying $500 for something that hardly works outside of gaming unless you're in the States.
I watch 50hz Premier league football for a living before Sky compress the shit out of it. It's perfectly fine.
1080i is the problem, switch to 720p, I always find interlaced blurry
Marvel
could never
I'll try that, thanks.
Well, fuck. After watching the streams this week I had almost talked myself in to trying to find a box this side of Christmas and eating the cost of Kinect.
This now ensures I don't do that. It's Kinectless SKU or bust now if the thing won't work as a media centered device here.
This now ensures I don't do that. It's Kinectless SKU or bust now if the thing won't work as a media centered device here.
You ever take a static picture (photograph) of a fast moving image and its been blurry, well in theory a video taken with 60 frames per second would have a smoother looking image than one that is taken at 50 frames per second.
Lets not forget that a moving image is a collection or static pictures.
PAL is indeed a better system than NTSC but that doesn't really effect HD.
So all the ads MS has everywhere in the UK featuring this and all the XB1 sections in stores have signs/messaging clearly pointing this out - right?
C'mon let's not be dense. MS have only announced anything about that at specialist forums/events - they haven't lifted a finger to notify their general customers and deliberately too 'cause they want the install base and figure they'll fix later.
Sony has done the same in the past but let's not pretend MS customers in the UK are buying into this knowingly or that MS has specifically called this out in a way they would be able to.
He's probably talking about motion blur. I use a 120Hz monitor and it takes a good 10 minutes before I can see a clear picture on a 60Hz TV. The gap isn't huge but if he's grown accustom to watching things at 60Hz going back down to 50Hz could look blurry.
Dunno, you'd of thought they would have remember that the exact same thing happened with 360's DVD playback when it launched and they had to patch it
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Is this ever coming to the Euro zone or have I got a completely wasted button I paid for on my WiiU gamepad.
interface could be 50hz so it will match the TV.
In that case, only snap will look crap but thats expected anyway.
Right now, just watching TV will introduce judder and will suck at fast moving scenes like sports.
I believe the technical term for "Blur at a reduced framerate" is "Gorillaz".
Agreed. I'd rather take the 4.2% speed up of 50hz than have to deal with the judder of 60hz. 60hz is garbage - at least 50hz is smooth.
Anyway, this is a massive oversight on Microsoft's part. What the hell were they thinking?
rokkerkory
Member
This is nuts they did not think of this. lol
iamaustrian
Member
what? no
compared to american TV signal 50hz PAL is way superior.
The blurry mess is the ntsc signal.
that's the first time I heard that claim
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