Again. Five seconds shopping for RAM, you'd see your own error.At the scale MS are buying it won't make a huge difference.
Again. Five seconds shopping for RAM, you'd see your own error.At the scale MS are buying it won't make a huge difference.
Again. Five seconds shopping for RAM, you'd see your own error.
What marketing has there been for the Scorpio? I mean Digital Foundry is a pretty niche site that only "hardcore" gamers would watch or know about.
All their messaging has been that this is not for everyone and it's an enthusiasts machine, I can kind of buy they are dropping hints that it's going to be expensive to then shock people with a lower price, but nothing currently suggest this will or should be $399.
Nobody buys stuff 'no matter what'. Price matters.
The audience for a 500+ dollar console when there's huge competition on shelves is not large.
I think Microsoft is aiming for the E3 PR win by talking up the specs and it being 'premium' all up until the day they announce actual pricing.
They'll announce it at 399USD and people by then will be conditioned to feel that it is exceptional value. It's a smart strategy.
I just think that on GAF, a lot of gamers realize that the components they used really aren't all that unconventional or bleeding-edge to warrant a price above 399USD. Like I said before, it's the Xbox One Pro with the hardware bump expected from a year's delay. I'm convinced they explicitly designed this thing with a fixed 399USD pricepoint in mind.
I actually think it's a smart way of marketing it. If they market it right, ie this is the state of the art console, I can see a lot of owners who never owned a Xbox1 purchase one. Ultimately I believe they will set the price at $499 because it just seems reasonable. As much as I would like to see $399 and up the competition I find that rather unlikely. But even at $499 first timers will eat it up. Previous owners... I am not so sure at $499.
Again. Five seconds shopping for RAM, you'd see your own error.
No we're being realistic in what we know will add cost to this unit and how Microsoft won't want to lose money on it as the have with xbox hardware the majority of this gen.
has anybody else started looking for XB1 versions for multiplats yet to prepare to get the console-definitive versions when Scorpio launches?
Awesome 1st party games needs to be shown but to me they definitely sold me on Scorpio from a multiplats perspective in the latest DF videos, unless it's all lies this will be my multiplat console for sure the rest of this generation, well until my PC setup gets upgraded of course. Hype +1!
Price really needs to be below 499 though... Seriously. This can not sell for 499. You hear me, MS?
It would be their biggest mistake yet. Possibly worse than the always online DRM PR fiasco. I mean if Sony price drops PS4 Pro we might see a situation where Scorpio is $200 more expensive than PS4 Pro. Not good! Even with a power difference easily seen in multiplats it would be a horrible situation for MS.IMO, $399 is the sweet spot for a new console releases and if MS releases the XBox Premium at that price there will be a shift in the market. Unfortunately, I don't think that will happen, Phil keeps referring to it as a "Premium" console which makes me think they will price it at $499 or god forbid more. The price point is so crucial for its success, I sure hope they get it right.
LB
huh. So I guess you think 12gb of very fast ram and cooling solution in what appears to be a compact design plus all the other things is free and given to MS by faires.I'm starting to believe the $399 talk. At the end of the day, it's Jaguar and Polaris tech dressed up with clever marketing speak releasing at the tail end of 2017.
As a PS4 Pro and 4K TV owner, I'd strongly consider this at $399. At $499, it's probably a pass.
It is. You say die size doesn't matter because the architecture is old. RAM is an old architecture. Even older than Polaris. And you're still paying for die size.Microsoft aren't walking in to Best Buy and picking this stuff up retail so I don't think that's much of an argument.
huh. So I guess you think 12gb of very fast ram and cooling solution in what appears to be a compact design plus all the other things is free and given to MS by faires.
At 499 the entire venture could likely end up being a big loss of money.
This isn't about making a short-term profit on <1m units sold while the casual market balks at your product.
This is about them expanding their hold over the market with a highly desirable product that's powerful yet affordable. They need to get rid of the image they've been cultivating these past two years or so, and a 499$ price will likely just be another PR fiasco in the making.
They want these consoles in people's homes. They want people to sign up to game pass and XBL. Hence why I think it'll be 399$ and why I feel the decision to go with Jaguar/Polaris was made. They'd be stupid not to.
Yeah there very well could be a premium SKU with an Elite controller and beefier hard drive, but $399 makes the most sense, especially since it will likely be sitting next to a $349 Pro and $199 OG consoles(plus some attractive video cards) this holiday. Nice system but ~$600 after tax and a game is a lot to ask for what you're getting, even for the enthusiast crowd.
Well that goes against the narrative within the division about budgets getting super tight and it being looked over with a microscope.
Because I highly doubt they want to sell at a loss again since launch have been losing money in the division.
Where in the fuck do you think Microsoft buying the memory from? Newegg?Again. Five seconds shopping for RAM, you'd see your own error.
It is. You say die size doesn't matter because the architecture is old. RAM is an old architecture. Even older than Polaris. And you're still paying for die size.
And that's why they went with Jaguar/Polaris. Even at 399 I don't believe they are looking at eating a loss per console sold. And they'll make it back on games and more importantly, services.
http://kotaku.com/this-week-in-the-business-scorpios-price-may-sting-1794132738
Good lord. A $650 cost to build? To sell this thing at $499 would incur a $150 dollar loss. If this is true $599 seems probable. Even that would still be a loss.
I think it'll be $499.99/£449.99. I also think that price is too much for the mass market (will do ok in the much smaller enthusiast market)
Yeah, that guy is delusional. This thing is nowhere near that expensive.
Yeah, that guy is delusional. This thing is nowhere near that expensive.
I agree with your last few posts, it'll be about $399 max and won't break that. MS aren't stupid, the Xbox one is being outsold by the PS4 and they need this to pick things up. They may be selling it as pro, but they need take up on this thing to be mainstream to trying and claw market share back.
I would guess it costs somewhere around $50 more than the PSPro to manufacture. It's a UHD drive (already in the XB1S), 4 CU's more silicon, and 4GB RAM. Plus higher build quality all round (already in both the XB1). Oh and a 'fancy' cooling system which sounds better than it is.
Those add up but aren't anything mega. Sony are no doubt in profit at $399 so yeah, $399 with maybe a small loss at launch. Then make some back with some $499 bundles (see XB1S launch SKU's).
Higher than $399 defeats the purpose of the system ie to "really move Xbox forward". (see Xbox reveal video!)
What marketing has there been for the Scorpio? I mean Digital Foundry is a pretty niche site that only "hardcore" gamers would watch or know about.
All their messaging has been that this is not for everyone and it's an enthusiasts machine, I can kind of buy they are dropping hints that it's going to be expensive to then shock people with a lower price, but nothing currently suggest this will or should be $399.
I would think they are able to launch at $399, but may choose to launch at $449/499 depending on what MS wants from this machine. Do they want a bump in sales or are they content with a lowish volume seller at a higher ASP and trying to win some 'high end' positioning which they'll try and leverage as they prepare for a next gen XB2 in a few years
Does bigger die size really make that much cost difference?
$399
I'm willing to bet that Sony drops the price of the PS4 Pro to $349 around the time of Scorpio launch. If MS came in at $499 then a $150 price difference between the PS4 Pro and Scorpio would be pretty stark regardless of the power advantage.
But why? Why would Sony lower the price unless the market demands it?
An Iphone 5S can't hold a candle to other phones in the same price range.
What Sony needs is big software releases. The scorpio is only a threat if the Ps4 turns into a barren wasteland, which clearly ain't happenning.
People really need to adjust expectations.
Maybe who knows, there's nothing wrong with $499 for what the proposition seems to be. But the Scorpio doesn't exist in a vacuum and they have to consider that.
Plus I would think MS want to use this to improve their position. It's not going to perform any miracles but it can do a bit of damage these next few years if positioned correctly.
This.
You $499 folks are underestimating Microsoft
You guys do remember Microsoft is treating this as a "premium" console right? As in, it will be a higher price compared to the competition.
You guys do remember Microsoft is treating this as a "premium" console right? As in, it will be a higher price compared to the competition.
But that's my point - MS wnt to improve their position but in what sense?
- marketshare? Then they need to hit $399
- mindshare? They could be fine with a higher price and trying to carve out ownership of the high end/premium space
It's basically the only thing in volume chip manufacturing that makes a cost difference.
Yeah it does. CPU's are manufactured by making a giant "wafer" of multiple CPU's, which is then broken down into individual units. These wafers are extraordinarily expensive to manufacture, but if your individual CPU size is reduced you can get substantially more CPU's out of a single wafer (and even small reductions in CPU size have huge impacts on this when you do the surface area math), lowering the per-CPU costs, also because the "edges" which aren't a complete CPU and therefore completely wasted represent less total area the smaller the CPU is.
And you are overestimating the position of the Xbox department within Microsoft. Subsidizing increases the cost.